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8:32 AM
Mornin'
 
Mornin'
 
I guess there's also Queen: We will NOLOCK you
2
 
Guys, does anyone know, what is IN clause limit for Oracle 12c?
I found, that general limit is 1000, but do not have specific information for 12c.
 
1000 still, I think
If you're hitting 1000, you're generally doing it wrong
 
@Philᵀᴹ sadly need reference to official docs.
 
8:39 AM
The limit itself is not stated on the doc page for the IN clause
If you want definitive proof, just test it
 
you can use these chats as an app for ios?
 
8:55 AM
@Philᵀᴹ okay
 
9:29 AM
morning
@RikiDev what do yo umean?
 
 
3 hours later…
12:24 PM
Slightly trolling OP:
1
Q: Does taking a log backup, truncating the log, and then deleting the tlog backup break the LSN chain?

PolDBQWe have avamar tool taking backups in my environment. The backup plan avamar does is only taking trans backups once a day. I am convincing them to take the trans backup more frequent. But in the meanwhile, I have to deal with large log sizes because of this infrequent trans backups. Hence to redu...

I'm thinking, the point of the transaction log, irrespective of what tool is backing it up, is to allow point-in-time recovery. If you delete that backup, how would you expect to recover to that point-in-time in a DR situation? Second question, what reason do you have to believe that any other backup (log or otherwise) contains the data you have deleted, bearing in mind full or differential backups do not allow point-in-time recovery.
I think
Well, it's one for the vendor really, thinking about it.
 
12:48 PM
@AaronHall are you around?
 
morning heapers
 
morning
 
G'day to y'all
 
1:13 PM
@AaronHall take a look at this question, if you have time: stackoverflow.com/questions/26613459/…
There is a boundary that expires in 3-4 hours and I'd like your opinion on the answers (or add your answer of course).
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ questions have time based boundaries now?
 
oh boy. I'm back into typo territory
 
 
1 hour later…
2:33 PM
Mar 1 '16 at 14:54, by Phil
@PaulWhite NEVER share anything from MOS on here. Oracle legal are terribad people, and we don't want to open that can of worms
 
@TomV That's what I was thinking too. Only I forgot there was a perfectly explicit piece of advice on that from Phil.
I only vaguely remembered that sharing their contents was not recommended.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I'll try to let you know in about an hour.
 
2:54 PM
@TomV :-( Ooops
Can we delete it?
Should I flag for moderator attention re: deletion?
Flagged
@TomV Sorry about that.
 
@hot2use No worries, I'm not familiar with Oracle and their policies, I just remembered Phil warned us before
 
3:25 PM
1
Q: Unable to edit a previous answer

Andrew BickertonGetting redirected to 400 Bad request Your browser sent an invalid request. Whenever I try and post the answer... Is this happening to others? This is for: Add article to transactional publication without generating new snapshot

 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I don't know - did you try them? At this point you probably know better than I do.
 
The Final Nolock - Europe
3
 
@hot2use we could also establish a 'Famous last NOLOCKs' meme
 
@dezso We could try
 
3:55 PM
So I recently started using an MS SQL server for storing data.
The data is basically huge xml files.
I was under time pressure so I just made a table, with an id, some information and then an xml column for the data itself.
Currently, if I want to update a tiny portion of the xml, I need to read all the xml, make the tiny change, and then update all the xml.
Obviously, this isn't great, and now I finally have some time to start reworking the backend.
So I was thinking, since I need to store structured non-recursive tree-like data, would it make sense to look at a document based database instead of a relational database?
 
@WilliamMariager Are you using the xml datatype?
 
That's what I'm currently doing yeah.
 
@WilliamMariager Well it's easy to update portions of the XML using the .modify method. Have you tried that.
 
Not yet no. Just getting back to it now. I'll give it a look. Just wanted to explore alternatives before I continued using the setup I currently have.
 
@WilliamMariager Also, how big are the files?
 
4:04 PM
~20 - ~100 kb
 
@WilliamMariager Is your data genuinely semi-structured or actually pretty structured (in which case consider normalising it into tables as performance will always be faster).
 
It's pretty structured. It's based on external specifications from something called GS1. I used raw XML so I didn't have to restructure my database when they changed their specs.
 
@WilliamMariager Guess GS1 is not that dynamic though. Look into .modify (you might find a few examples from someone called wBob or Mikael Eriksson), see if it helps. Otherwise, a kind of normal table structure is probably the way to go. Good luck!
 
I was worried that going with a table structure would explode. I don't have any experience with databases and having potentially thousands of tables sounded a bit extreme to me. But I admit I didn't check how common it was.
Okay, maybe not thousands. I have 800 classes, which I guess would each translate into a table.
 
@WilliamMariager ok well I guess there is a trade-off between how complicated the schema is and what performance you need.
 
4:18 PM
Yeah. So far from speaking with users, I should expect periodic activity. Could be silent for weeks, and then a group of updates and then silent again. It's far from high frequency. Obviously if I get more people using it, the frequency will increase.
I think I'll give .modify a look first. Seems like a simple optimization for now.
Is there anything similar for only reading out part of the xml? Maybe by xpath?
I'll just google it :P Don't want to waste your time. I see that .modify uses DML and XPaths so obviously I can read out parts some way too.
 
@WilliamMariager Sure. .query returns xml, .value returns scalar values, .nodes returns resultsets etc. I'm pretty sure if you find one of my .modify examples you'll see two or three of them on show.
 
Awesome, appreciate the help.
 
@AaronHall Thnx. I asked you because I remember (or was it my idea?) you had experience with sqlalchemy.
I've sorted it now
 
Great. I'm a Python guy, but I don't know SQLAlchemy as well as I'd like.
 
what's your main area of work with Python?
 
4:28 PM
@WilliamMariager Manual on XML methods supported in Transact-SQL: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190798.aspx
 
@AndriyM Thanks. :)
 
nodes() and value() are frequently used to shred XML before normalising it or just extract a subset
 
Am I missing something here?
@MaxVernon Old application does not have lookup tables. OP specifically asks about multiple lookup tables. — Paparazzi 1 min ago
or am I just talking a different language than dear old Pap?
 
4:44 PM
@MaxVernon The answer is different to what the OP has. But I don't like it. it doesn't take care of the hierarchical structure.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ yes, instead of having two key/value pairs per row, it only has one, which is certainly slightly different from the OP's table. I would certainly say it's not different in a good way, I think it makes the problem worse, if anything.
 
It might be better (or more appropriate) if the OP wanted to store menus with arbitrary number of levels. Still, the answer ignore relationships between menu levels and (parent/child) items of different levels, so it wouldn't work as it is..
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ agreeed. If Pap had a ParentKey column, it might make more sense than the original table.
 
Pap as in Pap test?
 
lol
that's not nice.
I like how his edit makes it even less clear.
talk about a "shrug report":
what is a "measure time"?
 
5:17 PM
wow. i suck at algorithms
 
Larry Ellison would be a worthy US president, too
 
5:33 PM
@MaxVernon I've certainly never spotted him use such affectionate language on this site :)
 
@AndriyM he's canadian. watch. he'll apologize for it, next
 
@MaxVernon Again, sorry the answer is not clear to you. The question was also not clear to you and was immediately clear to me. — Paparazzi 23 mins ago
 
@AndriyM lulz. I was going to cut him down, but then I thought "be nice". Now I'm just going to write an answer that shows him how to do it.
 
@MaxVernon You obviously suck at understanding things ;)
 
He said, "sorry". I take my words back.
 
5:34 PM
@ypercubeᵀᴹ don't I though!
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ good that we have enlightened people on the site
@MaxVernon you actually do
 
6:13 PM
@dezso thanks, I hope so! :-)
 
stupid powershell
 
perhaps slightly nicer?
0
A: Best practices for normalizing large amounts of primitive data types

Max VernonWith the intention of describing how you could do this with a hierarchical key/value pairs table, supporting foreign keys, I've built the following tiny test-bed of code that allows exploring how the structure might work. Do this in tempdb, to avoid killing anything "interesting": USE tempdb; I...

 
6:33 PM
Language is so interesting. That's one heavy, heavy, table.
 
7:00 PM
@MaxVernon I was thinking OLAP, but that KB makes no sense
> Learn about the terminology Microsoft uses to describe software updates.
 
@TomV lol
 
7:19 PM
@MaxVernon I left them a WTF feedback.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ fantastic. Me too.
 
@MaxVernon me three
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ do you think my key/value pairs answer is ok?
 
@TomV The only pages I can find with Google that have "measure time" is the specific error report and another page that has to do with mdx.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ yeah that's why I thought OLAP but it still doesn't make any sense
 
7:23 PM
which is irrelevant (the mdx page).
It says "measure times 12"
@TomV Perhaps it's a typo. And they meant "a measure of time"?
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I wouldn't know what they mean with iterations then
 
@TomV Ha. If you don't know - the mdx expert - we are at a complete loss.
 
No it makes no sense to me
 
7:38 PM
@MaxVernon It's ok. There's something bugging me about it but I can't spot why. I'll have a second look later.
 
HALLO MY PEOPLE.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I appreciate that.
 
8:02 PM
4
Q: Have I acted unprofessionally by sharing photos from a work's night out?

PoetTo give you some context, the business I work for an I enjoyed a post-New Year night out, paid for and sponsored by the business as a thank you for the previous year and to get people motivated for 2017. During this, HR themselves took some photographs of the evening, throughout the evening. Our...

 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ So HR can broadcast them without permission, but the people actually in the pictures can't download them
must be a US company :)
Most places I've worked they would be on an unprotected file share anyway :)
 
It seems HR wanted him to do just the technical work (of putting the pictures into the screen showing program, app) and he went above and beyond, sharing the files to anyone who asked.
@TomV Yeah, me too.
Usually in Google drive or just emailed and CCed to everyone
 
It does remind me of an HR muppet at some company who wanted to take a picture of me to put in my "file"
it was a company who called me several times to have a talk, so I went over for a talk
out comes the camera "yes, we take a picture and keep a file of everybody who applies here"
I responded "I didn't apply, I accepted your invitation for a talk, that's all, and I wouldn't appreciate being put into an official file"
that kind of set the tone of the meeting :)
 
@TomV wow
Did you have a contract with the company?
 
Not at all
HR called me several times saying they would really like to talk to me
I went there, more to have them quit bothering me than out of actual interest in the company
 
8:15 PM
Where did they know you from?
 
linkedin, cv databases, reputation or a reference, ... who knows
 
I'd be more than reluctant to have my picture taken in an interview.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I outright refused
 
In just an invitation, it sounds even more weird
 
Had they not put away the camera I would have left rightaway
One of the developers who worked there at the time is now a coworker, I told him the story and he was't surprised and just laughed
I didn't know back then, but it was a merger/takeover and the new policies at the company made 8/10 developers leave
 
8:26 PM
haha
 
9:15 PM
City wide outage. Did Trump ban electricity in Europe now? ☺️
 
Man, is lighting up the front page of dba.se
 
That's a new one for me.
 
9:32 PM
Nice
 
I suppose it's better than an unknown soft error.
 
@MaxVernon Given their new terminology I think they mean "hardware error"
 
@TomV lol, you never know I guess!
 
10:24 PM
@MaxVernon Where are you from?
 
@PaulVargas France, England, Wales, then Canada.
Born in England.
I suppose it depends on how far back you want to go
Why?
 
@MaxVernon I don't know.
 
@PaulVargas interesting. Now you do.
 
@MaxVernon I was simply curious, that's all.
 
@PaulVargas and, you?
 
10:29 PM
@MaxVernon I'm from Mexico.
 
@PaulVargas cool!
 
@MaxVernon Do you have some favorite DMS?
 
although I wasn't there to vouch for it, apparently one of my ancestors came over from Normandy to England in 1066 as one of William the Bastard's generals. There is a town in Normandy that bears my last name; which is where my ancestor apparently lived.
@PaulVargas My platform of choice is Windows; so SQL Server. I'm also really liking SQL Server on Linux lately.
 
10:47 PM
@MaxVernon I thought it was the other way around: SQL Server thus Windows
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ lol. It could have gone that way, except I've known Windows since way before SQL Server was a Microsoft thing.
 
You know that Postgres, Oracle, even MySQL run in Windows, right?
 
I have Windows 2.0 at home somewhere.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ yes, I like SQL Server because it doesn't make you learn something every 5 minutes just to get it installed.
Unlike Linux which makes me learn something every 3rd keystroke.
and by the way, it's something I'll have to relearn in 27 keystrokes because now it's changed.
 
@MaxVernon If you are new to it, that's expected, isn't it?
@MaxVernon I'm not sure I follow on that.
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ well, perhaps I'm not a Unix guru, but I've been using it since I was just a wee lad. I suppose I just don't use it enough to know every flavor of every command.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ it seems to me every time you turn around there is a new way of doing something in Linux.
 
10:52 PM
but does the old way stop working?
 
And god forbid you ever want to install some third party package, or perhaps change the resolution of your video display.
 
what flavour of Linux have you been working?
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I doubt it... it's probably just that I don't do it enough to know it like the back of my hand, like I do with Windows.
@ypercubeᵀᴹ to be honest, RedHat is the one I've been using recently, and in my opinion, it's one of the easier ones to get to know. I have used Suse before, and several other variants a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
 
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because we cannot know how smart and creative you are. — dezso 1 min ago
 
Suse was the one I used a long time ago, too
 
10:58 PM
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I must admit, being able to upgrade the kernel while the system is running without any reboot is quite an interesting feat. You can't do that with Windows!
 
You can't install some printer drivers in Windows without restart ;)
@dezso ha nice
I looked at the firebase realtime database page: firebase.google.com/docs/database
> Instead of typical HTTP requests, the Firebase Realtime Database uses data synchronization—every time data changes, any connected device receives that update within milliseconds. Provide collaborative and immersive experiences without thinking about networking code.
 
11:16 PM
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Suse?
What's that?
 
One of the very earliest reliable Enterprise level Linux variants.
Then Novell bought it.
 

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