hossa, what's going about?

@dot_Sp0T Preparing to survive the ~35°C in the afternoon. And you?

@Secespitus considering to leave work early to not have to make it through that sweltering heat... also trying to reach our dev team in Bangladesh to get ahead with work.... also prepping a DnD 5th Adventure for tomorrow, it's the Swiss National Holiday and we'll be playing DnD because there's a complete ban on fireworks and all the other stuff that is regular on that Holiday due to the heat

@Secespitus I struggle with the heat a lot too

@Secespitus don't you folks get up to 39C today tho?

@dot_Sp0T I am living in a colder region thankfully :D

@dot_Sp0T luckily it is not that hot today, but it has been last week.

@Secespitus Where do you live?

@dot_Sp0T Wow, the heat is pretty extreme this year. Good luck with the prepping. Homebrew adventure?

@ArtificialSoul Northern Germany

@Secespitus nope, Adventure League, Rrakkma

@Secespitus Seriously? Me too :D Not that far northern. Near Hannover.

oh dear god, they're multiplying

@dot_Sp0T We are everywhere :D

@dot_Sp0T Unknowingly appearantly

I wager you planned this 'encounter' to mock me

@dot_Sp0T While I am all in favour of mocking you we didn't plan anything :D

@dot_Sp0T And i don't see how that is mocking you ^^

typical German

@dot_Sp0T I don't know that module. What will throw at your hapless players?

@dot_Sp0T What's that supposed to mean? :P

I'll see if I can find a mod to unfreeze my general purpose room so we can move the discussion over there, don't want to accidentally spoiler anyone on here

@Secespitus btw: It seems like the vast majority of users agree with your proposal to lower meta rep requirements :)

@ArtificialSoul your vast majority are 19 people

Hmmm, the only mod I've found seems to be afk :/

Any of you know where I could find some mods that don't bite?

Also once I get it unfrozen I'll put details on the adventure in my secret room

@dot_Sp0T No, i meant the voting of possible solutions in the answers. the proposal to lower it all over meta has more upvotes than the four alternatives combined. so it is quite obvious that people agree with that solution

doesn't change my statement about the relative quantity

@dot_Sp0T @Mithrandir24601 Could you unfreeze dots room?

@dot_Sp0T yes, but it is not like people are as active on meta as they are on main

@ArtificialSoul which is an issue

@dot_Sp0T of course, but appearantly almost everyone who takes part in meta agrees with the approach, obviously.

@Secespitus I don't get why people use a site like this to try and sell their stuff. Especially if completely unrelated. Once there was someone with absolutely terrible english that posted a link like buy-gold-online(.)com in plain text or something. Like wtf?

@ArtificialSoul it's called a 'bot'. Automated software or similar that spams forums and such

@Secespitus it has been reopened, care to join?

@dot_Sp0T But creating an account here requires a captcha, doesn't it? Well, okay, but it only requires one and then you can spam all SE sites, i guess.

or you just use any OpenID account really, or post anonymously

@dot_Sp0T In this case it was a registered account. (At least i think so. You need to have an account to have a bio, etc., right?)

I just rechecked, It didn't have any of that but a generic user number when I flagged snd VTCd it

hmm, sece left us it seems

@dot_Sp0T Yes, but quickly after the post the name changed from user234... to DocOnline and the profile had an advertisment as a bio. It even had a avatar by then.

@dot_Sp0T Looks like it

I am fast

@dot_Sp0T Yes, i first commented to the original name, too and then wondered why the username has changed.

I hate it when people drop into chat rooms and don't even show the politeness to answer to a simple 'hi how are you'

@dot_Sp0T I don't mind it that much. Personally, I am not that fond of small talk with strangers. If there is a topic to be discussed that is different, but small talk for the sake of small talk seems utterly pointless.

@ArtificialSoul really depends on the room in my opinion, if there's not much traffic and someone even pings you when you enter then it doesn't hurt being polite

How do you know it is pointless before you did it? :)

I really enjoy talks to strangers at the bus-stop and similar

E.g. I spent a 30min bus-trip talking to an immigrant learning about where he came from and in turn helping him match the German words he was trying to learn to imagery and words in his native tongue

Because I said hi, instead of staring into my phone

I know it will be ultimately pointless if the interaction lasts a mere few minutes and nothing of interest is being discussed. I don't care what random people think about the weather or how their kids are doing. I highly value people I can have a discussion about things that interest me, but under normal circumstances that short timeframe is not sufficient to find out if that is the case with a particular random stranger.

I am a person that is very interested in discussion, whether there is agreement or not. My now-girlfriend had a discussion lasting 11 hours. Nonstop. The original plan was going to a club, but instead we spend the whole night until 8 in the morning to talk about all kinds of things.

I also treasure these situations as they allow me to train talking to strangers more easily which ultimately helps me when I am in a situation such as at a party or at a convention and I actually want to get to know new people but the whole situation overwhelms me already without that

Yes, that is a valid point. It makes sense that if you want to train interactions you do interactions. That's how you get better at things. It is not a skill i personally intend on using that much.

You don't seem to need it

What do you mean i don't need it? Like in my personal life or what are you referring to?

judging from your general demeanor and the anecdote you just shared

Well, i am not an outgoing or extroverted person. I don't seek out new company a lot. My circle of friends barely extends over my circle of close friends, but I value all of them a lot for different reasons. I am not antisocial or give people a bad impression, it is just that I feel no need in getting to know people. If I come across an interesting person I want to talk to them and see what they think like.

Like this very discussion we are having right now

I enjoy this

But you are not a complete stranger like someone at a bus stop. I have read several of your posts, i know you are into worldbuilding and since you spent some time on here it is a reasonable assumption you are educated.

I am neither extrovert nor do I seek out company actively, I've got plenty of it. But I also see that most of the people I spend time with match a very small area of interests and there is a) plenty of other things that are fun to discover that I do not know of, and b) there is no real progress in finding a partner in my current circle of friends, so I have to get out and get to know new people

Ah, okay. I was just about to ask what you were referring to with your "at a party or at a convention and I actually want to get to know new people but the whole situation overwhelms me already", because I was unsure what you meant. It could(!) have been that you meant you have a specific issue with social interactions

I am bad at them, for one thing. Other than that I tend to get sick when I'm in a big crowd and don't have any clear plan on what I am doing / going to do; e.g. parties... yuck

Not everyone's a natural

I tend to help out by taking over the bar or similar, so I have stuff to do; at conventions I bury myself in tasks so I don't have to find things to do

@dot_Sp0T So you're avoiding social interactions, correct?

I totally get that, even though I do not have any form of anxiety disorder or something. I am not fond of interacting with strangers at all. It does not stress me or make me sick, it mostly just annoys me.

@ArtificialSoul I am rather giving myself a frame in which I know I can function, and then try to extend out of that frame knowing that I can go back to any task and similar

it's called coping

There's the difference, I am very fond of it, but it makes me sick nonetheless

That approach sounds pretty healthy considering your difficulties. You make sure you have an emergency plan, but you do your best to meet people.

How well does it usually work? Do you find some people occasionally that you can interact with and maybe isolate yourself and them a little bit from the stress of the party so you feel calmer during the interaction?

@ArtificialSoul varying degrees. My last relationship ended about 4 years ago, so that front is showing no real successes; on average I manage to get along nicely with people as long as its just banter etc, but it's hard to form actual friendships and similar

The biggest issue with parties is probably feeling like a burden upon the few people you rely on for stability, e.g. I do not want to hang around them the whole party, but then again the alternative is horrid to some degree

it's really werid

@dot_Sp0T Yeah, i know the struggle of finding a partner. I had a lot of luck finding my current girlfriend. As you might have figured out by now, i don't go out that often. So finding someone is by definition very difficult if you don't start looking.

that's a whole other issue I guess^^

@dot_Sp0T Personally knowing people that are like this to an extent, it doesn't bother me that much. My girlfriend is in general a lot more social than I am, but sometimes struggles with anxiety when her mental health is not that great (she suffers from depression). It is not a burden to me to ensure that she's fine. Indeed that is a special case since she is my girlfriend, but even if she was just a close friend i would not mind that.

Tip: It helps being told that, even if the other half doesn't show that they believe you

@dot_Sp0T I know, my girlfriend knows that. We talk a lot.

Sorry nvm, I'm getting a bit tired, if you like we can take it up somewhen later or another day again? sorry

Sure, don't sweat it. Have a nice rest :)

I enjoyed this conversation a lot and would appreciate talking to you some other time :)

Well not really resting, just getting away from the subject of interaction and feelings; it's sort-of tiring because its hard

ah, okay. No problem :)

@Secespitus Don't know how I missed this, sorry - If you're referring to the one on SO, I'm not sure if I actually can as those chat rooms are on a different server (although I'd be able to get the attention of someone who could if you need it unfrozen again)

@Mithrandir24601 I think it's already unfrozen, but thank you very much!

yeah, I got attention of doppelgreener :)

@Secespitus I envy you. I love the cold. But of course it's going to be at around 102 Fahrenheit here (38 Celsius) by noon.

@FoxElemental You envy me because I "only" have 35°C?

@Secespitus well, the 35°C are also air temperature. The sun is not shining that bright, but the air is incredibly hot around here. Even if you're in the shade you sweat like you're melting.

@Secespitus 35°C I want, I need, I'll be luck if it's 10% of that any time in the next 5-6 hours.

@Secespitus From my current point of view 35 C is cool. Maybe only a little cooler

But is it humid where you are?

Oppressively?

I hate the heat.

My ideal temperature is 15 C

Year-round

I'm dying over here

I'm allowed to complain about being 7° F warmer than you are, right?

It is very humid and i feel with you. I suffer from the heat immensly.

I completely agree with your ideal 15°C

@Ash Percentage of temperature is quite a risky statement. 10% of 35°C is something like 30°K - which is very cold.

Well, here in TX it's 38C in the summer, and -4 C in the winter

Garden? What garden? All the plants dried from the drought, withered from the heat, and then got flash frozen

@Secespitus Without changing units it's 3.5°C, and apparently it's actually very warm tonight, about double that.

pauses to shamelessly check Fahrenheit->Celsius conversion table

Ah.

38 F

¡Sin VERGÜENZA!

Forgot the umlaut^

Funny

never seen an umlaut in Spanish

@Ash Temperature measured in Celsius is only interval scaled. Taking a percentage doesn't make any sense if there is no natural zero.

@Secespitus correct. Technically Celsius is just a shifted Kelvin. That is why Temperature differences result in Kelvin and not Celsius (at least in scientific terms, colloquially it's not used that way)

@Secespitus Technically you have a point but it's an awkward one so I choose to ignore it.

@Ash A valid worldbuilding approach :D

@Secespitus It's certainly one used quite often.

@Secespitus It is valid English to say that the temperature has halved, meaning that the current temperature in C is half the previous temperature in C, which naturally extends to percentages, to be fair

Valid English, yes, but not accurate.

So, the temp in C halved, but it's not truly twice as cold unless you are working with K.

(And maybe not then, if temperature uses the log scale :P.)

@Hosch250 English is inaccurate by default. :P

@HDE226868 Only when you use words, and/or it is a day ending in Y.

Is there a language that you can express that idea without it being inaccurate? The problem isn't the language, but the unit of measurement, since it's not an absolute value.

@AndyD273 well, some might argue the language you are referring to is math. (and by extension physics)

@ArtificialSoul Some could argue that, but they'd have to use an inaccurate human language to do it, as the sentence structures in math are sorely underdeveloped.

You haven't read Shakespeare until you've read it in its native calculus.

If we define language as a medium to convey information given a predefined set of syntactical rules and vocabulary, math would fit that. If we see languages as something that has to be spoken then math does not qualify.

@ArtificialSoul Now translate that sentence to math.

In africa there is a tribe that does not have numbers. They have one, two and many. Please translate the conversation of half a temperature that just happened to their language.

Just because a language exists, does not mean any idea possible can be expressed in it.

@ArtificialSoul "Temperature was hot. Now not as hot."

And it kinda feels like information was lost, wasn't it?

It gets the point across. I'm so happy that this was todays XKCD :)

True, but the discussion here had a little more than just hot and then not so hot.

@AndyD273 If you are measuring in F: Was hot. Still hot.

@Hosch250 That doesn't make much sense. It's just another measuring stick. My kids math has stuff where you take different items to measure some object. "This truck is 8 jellybeans long", or "this truck is 2 inches long", or "this truck is 50.8 mm long".

@AndyD273 Or the Mass Ave bridge in Boston is 364.4 Smoots.

@Green Plus or minus one ear.

@Hosch250 There's a logic error here. Just because we measure temperature in numbers doesn't automatically mean that this tribe of number-deprived people can't express differences in heat. They may have a word for "makes you shiver to stay warm", "comfy-no sweating", "sweating", "don't move, too hot".

@AndyD273 precisely.

@Green Of course.

I just mean, half a degree difference in F isn't really noticable unless other major parts of the weather (wind, humidity, etc.) change too.

@Hosch250 agreed.

I doubt half a degree in celsius is actually noticeable either. .5 C is .9 F

@AndyD273 I have a shower head with a digital temperature measurment. I can at least assure you that 1 degree (from 32°C to 33°C) is a very difference.

@ArtificialSoul Sure, but water is a lot better thermal conductor than air. I could probably feel the difference of half a degree F in water. In air the other factors like humidity, wind, etc are much greater than actual temperature change. Hence the whole "heat index" thing.

@AndyD273 True

@ArtificialSoul Water has an absurdly high specific heat capacity, the amount of additional energy that one degree represents is quite considerable.

Which brings us back to the inaccuracy of human language. "Why is the office so darn cold?!?" "Cold, I'm roasting over here." Stuff like that is really subjective. Math isn't subjective, but it's not something you can speak either. "Well it's 74F in here, and if anyone touches the thermostat I'll write them up."

@AndyD273 "Writing up" goes back to when the manager would literally take them down and "write" on them with a whip, I guess...

@Hosch250 I don't think that has ever been used that way ever

It has now.

Congratulations. You monster.

:shrug:

@AndyD273 "it's not something you can speak either", no, but in science - especially international cooperation, most of the information is conveyed in mathematical form. It is the easiest to be clear with. Of course you add a few english words to clarify context, but the core information is presented in math.

@Hosch250 on a side note, I really want to continue the story, because I know exactly the right next line, but I hesitate to break rule 1.

But if you work with americans it might be they slip in a measurement in inch somewhere. There have actually been failed test projects because of this. Because everyone else just assumes SI.

The shadow can't get close to the phylactery

@AndyD273 Ohhhh.

@AndyD273 Maybe the shadow can poke it with a stick.

Just go part-way under water.

If it's salt water, that's pretty effective at stopping radiation, remember.

But they might be able to wedge it in, and use the rope to pull and break it. I kind of imagine them looking like maracas, so if you put a rope around the handle bit, it might snap if enough force is applied

Oh, nice!

Unless you, umm, yank it loose and it rolls away :(

Let's just hand wave that it stays.

I think that's the best idea yet.

Kind of like that, but less liquidy

@Hosch250 It's not the radiation, it's the concussion wave. Like fishing with dynamite.

@AndyD273 No, I mean about the shadow getting close.

They could probably get pretty close under salt water if it works based on radiation.

@Hosch250 Ahh, gotcha... Hmm, perhaps. It could be a plot device if we end up needing it

I agree we probably shouldn't go that route, though.

Something just feels a little weird about it.

It's almost as if we are just having the shadows get them out of trouble.

Yeah, the shadows are already pretty OP. They should have some limitations

I'd hate to turn them into a sonic screwdriver

@Ash There I went writing a nice, long response to an interesting genetics question and I return to find it deleted. I hope you are happy.

@ArtificialSoul Sure. it all has to do with your target audience, and you should put things in a way that is the most appropriate for that audience. For a science audience you want things to be as precise as possible. Talking about halving temperature should never happen in a science setting. It should be "temperature was at 50C, then reduced to 25C".

All worldbuilding is speculation. That's the whole point. We know enough about genetic technology and the challenges each of these technologies would face that there is plenty of room for informed speculation on the future of genetic engineering.

Notable Question. Nice :)

@MikeNichols If it had been an actual genetics question I wouldn't have gone after it the way I did but it wasn't it was "please speculate on all the possible advances in biotech and how they will interact" sorry no, we're not here to do all the work for you. Biotech, not just genetic engineering, all biotech.

Temperature is also very subjective based on what you are used to also...

@Ash The Title said "biotech" but the question itself only explicitly asked about genetic engineering. But most biotech is likely to be genetic engineering anyways isn't it?

@MikeNichols Biotech covers all medical and genetic technologies and the list at the bottom of the question included a lot more than just GE. I do sympathise with you, it is frustrating to start, or worse yet finish, an answer and have the rug pulled out from under you.

POB, anyone? Here

We really should start a SmokeDetectorBot

@FoxElemental That is kind of NSFW.

@FoxElemental That's for spam

@Secespitus Oh, didn't know that

@Hosch250 Wasn't there a discussion over the NSFW tag?

I'm not sure.

On WB meta, I mean

Still not sure.

@FoxElemental Can you be an expert in NSFW?

Ah, I see

@Hosch250 Depends on where you work? Why are you accessing WB from work? Get back to work you slacker! :)

LOL.

I do most my WBing from work.

@AndyD273 I always found it funny when the southern california beach bunnies would come to Idaho in January and somehow think their cute little parka and skinny jeans were going to do anything against day time highs of -20F.

@Green Yeah, those are painful temperatures, even if you are prepared for them. Especially if there is any wind at all

@AndyD273 And there was always wind.

My school sat on the back side of a hill at the end of a long valley. The wind would speed up through the valley, hit the hill, speed up then plaster anyone who wasn't wearing wind-proof clothing.

@FoxElemental Given that you've asked a couple of astrophysics questions, I thought worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/q/6473/627 might interest you.

@AndyD273 I've been enjoying the implications of that immortality question from yesterday.

@Green Which part? Or in what way maybe?

@AndyD273 The social aspects specifically. The OP wants to keep as much of their social life the same as they can. You and I both point out that's a pipe dream.

It's fun to think about all the ways that it is a pipe dream.

@Green Ah, yeah. I think that eventually short lived things like friendships will kind of lose their charm. I'd be hard to make life long friends knowing that their lives aren't all that long. It would be a bit like going to a dating hookup event in a hospital terminal ward. You'd want to spend life living in the moment, having fun with the people around you, but not dwelling on what will happen once they are gone.

@AndyD273 And there's the inevitable perspective that everything you know and love now will be in the impossibly distant past. Days won't mean anything because you've seen 100,000s of them. Years and seasons won't mean anything either.

Immortality is great until you realize you live forever and all it's inevitable loneliness and tedium.

It's all boring and there isn't much that could stop you from achieving god-like powers. If you know the patterns of the world well enough, you can make money in any market. You can learn to manipulate people to do exactly what you want...because people are boring in what they want (sex, money, power).

You can either be a benevolent god or the devil.

Although, given that there are others like them in the world, and someone has a list, I think that eventually these people would gravitate toward each other to start a community of people like them, where everyone can just be themselves and not worry about having to trick mortals. And I think it would happen naturally as people got tired of seeing everyone around them die. Move to a place where that doesn't happen any more

@AndyD273 Agreed.

@AndyD273 I think it can go so you become The Doctor or The Master. An altruistic god figure or a nihilistic "watch the world burn because I can burn it again in 100 years" demon.

@AndyD273 I've seen stories of this in humans who aren't immortal. They rise to a position of power where they are free to dictate to others what's real and what's not.

existentialcomics.com/comic/248

That's a perfect example of where the boss is free to dictate the terms of reality to other people who will hold them as intrinsic rules of the universe instead of the whims of some human somewhere.

@Green This could make for an interesting story. One day someone shows up says "Hey, I've got good news and bad news. You are immortal. The good news is that you'll have time to finish that novel you've always wanted to write. The bad news is that you will watch everyone you know die over time, and you won't be able to join them. Someday, when you're ready, come move out to [city name redacted] where we have a community. Then you'll find your forever home."

@AndyD273 And they live long enough to be both!

@AndyD273 Your forever home till your bored with all those people then you go out to find new people.

Perhaps the only saving grace of this kind of immortality is that you can forget things. It's the only thing that would keep me from going nuts with boredom.

@Green Actually, since all wounds heal and there is no permanent injury, I wonder if people would periodically go for a Wolverine style memory reset though forceful neural pathway rerouting.

"Become the new you! Get a lobotomy today!"

@AndyD273 That's one hell of a dice roll but also, you have time to make infinite dice rolls. Get bored with being rich? Opportunity costs don't matter anymore.

Inevitably, you're not human anymore. You look human but your mind will be very very strange.

THat'd be an interesting interview to write between an interviewer psychologist and an immortal person.

@Green Could make for an interesting game. Get dropped into a strange city chosen at random anywhere in the world, and see how long it takes you to become wealthy again. There are extra style points available.

What would change.

@AndyD273 Yes it would!

Dang, these immortals would be so dangerous. They have centuries to master martial arts with bodies that never lose muscle memory.

Most people only get four or five decades to master a martial art (and they get terrifying). What about centuries of mastery?

Their domain knowledge in practically every would just dominate anyone else.

The only thing that would save anyone else is that immortals would only have super mastery on extremely old tech. Newer things like computers, they can't master any faster than anyone else. Their natural advantage in having lots of time to learn things disappears when everything is only a year or so old.

I think that could also be another game: Become a super hero. It's basically the beginning of Deadpool 2 or John Wick.

Actually, almost exactly Deadpool. Only super power is not being able to die, and the martial arts skills.

@Green This is true. I guess one of the big challenges is learning how to learn new things and adapt to stuff. You'd probably want to hire people to keep track of emerging technology to let you know what is and isn't worth investing time in. Even with unlimited time, it still costs something to learn new things, so you wouldn't want to waste it on something useless

@AndyD273 I'd be curious how much domain knowledge does transfer over between domains. As a generalist, I find lots of places where things I know in one domain transfer over to things in another domain. It doesn't grant me instant mastery because there's still domain knowledge I don't know but I don't have to start from as far back as someone who isn't a generalist.

Further, I would assume that the immortal's neuroplasticity is that of a 28 year old, not a 428 year old.

@Green Probably. I think it would be more of an attitude thing than an ability thing. "But I've always done it this way. It's always worked for me." "Yes, but everyone else stopped doing it that way 10 years ago. This new way is easier, if you just give it a chance."

It's why my parents use computers a lot, any my mother in law is scared of the mouse.

@AndyD273 Yeah, as an immortal, you'd have to constantly fight to not do things the super old way.

But at the same time, neomania wouldn't really work on them anymore. After seeing a thousand new fashion trends and watching them all die away, being trendy would get really boring.

@AndyD273 I think they'd lose fear in general. If nothing can hurt you, why worry about it?

@Green immortal isn't the same as invulnerable though

@Green Fear of failure, fear of new things, fear of looking stupid. I agree that they'd get over it, but it would take effort.

@Green There is always something immortals are afraid of. For example being trapped for eternity somewhere completely alone with only your thoughts and no stimuli whatsoever.

@Mithrandir24601 True, it isn't but in the context of the question, being immortal means effective, eventual invulnerability. You can't die and all injuries, illnesses and diseases just heal up as if nothing had happened.

@AndyD273 Those are social things.

@Secespitus Sure, there's the existential horrors. My implicit scope was in regards to normal things like social embarrassment, fear of failure.

@Green Yes, but that's what I meant when I said she's afraid of the (computer) mouse.

@AndyD273 Ah, gotcha.

She treats it like it's going to bite her...

@AndyD273 that's gives me an idea for a really rude trick to play.

@Green A computer mouse that bites you?

@AndyD273 No, just one that has hair on it.

A computer mouse that bites you seems a really rude trick to play on one's mother (though I did think about it.)

And anyone who thinks I'm not a horrible person doesn't know me well enough yet.

@AndyD273 yep!

@AndyD273 My wife would be exceedingly unhappy with me if I were to attempt that project.

do-able, sure. Signing my death warrant in the proces? Absolutely.

@Green "But honey, aren't you happy that I killed the mouse?"

@AndyD273 I have two cats to do that for me....and my wife works with research mice and is responsible for keeping them alive and healthy. Killing one would not go over well.

Even if it was a wild one that was pooping in the cupboard?

@AndyD273 Just relocate it outside and give it a handful of corn in compensation.

Also, you should be able to post in the story-go-round shortly.

@Hosch250 But then you couldn't taxidermy it.

Why would you want to?

@AndyD273 We don't get those.

I still wouldn't want to.

And to be clear, I don't want to do it either. But I wouldn't want to buy a mouse just for the purposes of killing it. I'd be a terrible snake owner.

@AndyD273 I feed my snake deer.

Sounds big.

It's an imaginary snake. It can be as big as I want.

Although, I have a real live shark.

AKA a hyper German Shepherd.

@Hosch250 Yup. And done

And time to head home

Almost same here.

Just came in

Aaaand leaving