The Factory Floor

Green

14:31

Happy timezone!

Ajnatorix Zersolar

@Green happy timezone

HDE 226868

@Green Happy timezone.

Green

@HDE226868 @AjnatorixZersolar Happy timezone!

Hey @HDE226868 I have a question I'm working on to enquire about the customizability of user interfaces on long-duration spaceships.

HDE 226868

@Green Okay.

Green

I'm trying to balance the needs of safety/reliability (the UI must work) vs the needs to adapt to changing conditions and user preferences.

HDE 226868

14:37

So, the UI won't be updated throughout the voyage - it has to be preset before launch?

Ah, you just posted.

Green

@HDE226868 The ship designers would build a UI for the ship to start. But if the ship is going to be away from port for a long time, the operators may want/need to change the displays/controls to facilitate faster operation. They don't have the time to get back to port to make the improvements.

HDE 226868

It's an interesting problem, but it feels kinda broad, unless things are centralized. I'm assuming there are plenty of different computers/terminals around the ship, each one with a specialized design. Maybe narrow it down to the controls for a specific system?

Green

14:55

@HDE226868 I think I have failed to properly constrain this question. I've gotten four answers already and they don't really answer my core point.

HDE 226868

Yeah.

Green

@HDE226868 sigh We'll see if it works.

Anonymous

15:39

You know, I think something like 5 of my suggested edits dealing with putting math into MathJax have been rejected. I finally figured out why: looking at the revised format, the MathJax doesn't show on the suggested edit form, so the reviewers just see a lot of $\approx{}{}^{}\text\sim\$$ blah blah blah.

Instead of the fixed math format

Is there any way to fix this?

thinking about posting on Meta about this

AndyD273

@Anonymous Probably a good idea.

HDE 226868

@Anonymous Looking through those five, I think they were rejected because they didn't change much. In two or three, you just added LaTeX to one or two small bits.

AndyD273

I've never used mathjax, so I don't know what the output format would look like. If I were to look at the suggested edit queue, I wouldn't be able to tell that the proposed edit was an improvement over what was already there

For a few of the ones I saw, it just looked more complicated than it needed to be, esp if they already were using sup and sub to get the exponent in the right place.

HDE 226868

^ This. Units and plain numbers don't necessarily need LaTeX; they're fine as plaintext.

Bellerophon

I would say having LaTeX on normal numbers and units makes it worse because it makes it harder for people to edit the question in future.

Anonymous

16:09

Hmm. I think I'll post a Meta thread on this soon. I can see how the format looks confusing on the suggested/pending edit form. Perhaps I should tag it feature-request?

James

16:26

@dot_Sp0T Cardboard seems like a bad choice.

@Green What'd you do?

@Anonymous You might need to take that to Meta.se, the mods on WB don't have the power to do anything about it.

Anonymous

16:39

Just posted it

AndyD273

What's the rep needed to make edits without having to go in the queue?

James

@AndyD273 Depends I think there is a caveat for people with tag badges.

@AndyD273 2000

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/edit

Green

@James I asked this question: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/112219/…

James

17:01

@Green Yeah I saw it, I am writing up an answer.

Green

@James Look forward to seeing it.

James

17:17

I just spilled buffalo sauce all over my keyboard...

HDE 226868

@James Your keyboard has it rough.

AndyD273

@James That sounds horrible. Spicy sauce where your fingers are going to be picking it up, only to later get too close to your eyes...

HDE 226868

Jan 21 '16 at 21:29, by James

@HDE226868 My general rule for starring posts is if it makes me snort I star it. Congratulations I have coffee on my keyboard

James

I think I got about 86% of it out of the keys

HDE 226868

Feb 24 '16 at 20:56, by James

@Samuel Thanks for making me spray beverage on my keyboard.

Jun 8 '16 at 20:12, by James

@TrEs-2b I just snorted and sprayed (luckily just) water on my keyboard.

(Just some of the greatest hits.)

James

17:19

This is why I don't read chat at home...

@HDE226868 ...yeah apparently I do that pretty often.

AndyD273

Seems like having to explain to IT why you need another new keyboard might get difficult after a while.

James

Thus far I haven't put any beyond repair.

Also...this is why you make friends with the help desk.

2

Worldbuilding Meta

1

Q: MathJax and Pending Edits

I've had a couple rejected edits dealing with converting math->MathJax. I think I'm starting to see why. On the suggested edit form that reviewers see, the MathJax doesn't convert to the final form. So what we should see as$$\mathbf{F}=-k\frac{\sqrt{|e_1e_2|}\text{sgn}(e_1)\text{sgn}(e_2)}{r^2}\m...

Green

17:40

@James Cookies, Coke and Pizza make great thank-yous.

Green

17:50

@James And the secretaries, janitors and gate agents at the airport. All of these people can make your life really really uncomfortable, really quickly.

AndyD273

@HDE226868 That seems like a really low bar...

James

@AndyD273 Don't be jealous.

AndyD273

Hmm, maybe "threshold" is a better word than "bar", if all that has to happen is that James snorts

On a side note, is it wrong to call someone out as being an asshole in a comment, when they specifically admit to being one? Or does that still violate the be nice policy?

James

@AndyD273 Kind of depends on how you execute.

AndyD273

18:08

@James I think I handled it about right. Mostly just implied that they were the kind of person that the question/my answer would be about.

3

A: Encouraging Kindness in Rich People?

So first off to say that you don't have to be rich to be a jerk. I know plenty of people who aren't rich, and who are assholes. Second, saying that rich people are jerks is stereotyping to the same extent as to say that women are bad drivers or that poor people are lazy. I also know several rich ...

James

18:33

@Green Ok answer is up. Let me know if that's what you were thinking.

Green

@James I find that o.m.'s and Jesse's answers are much closer to what I was thinking. You've given me how to design approach for security within the system which is useful.

Green

18:58

@James HEHEHE! I clearly don't know enough about what I'm talking about. James, your answer is really close to the new one by Graham. I'm sorry that I didn't appreciate what you were saying before.

James

@Green :D

@Green It is admittedly a bit of a round about way to answer your question...

Green

@James Clearly, no one should be hiring me to design safety critical UIs any time soon.

@James That may have been why I was having trouble with it.

James

@Green I used to play an MMO called Shadowbane, the UI was completely customizable. You could literally take the icon for each individual ability/skill and put it wherever you wanted on the screen, there was no hot bar or anything.

Green

@James Where as EVE Online doesn't let you customize the UI at all.

James

It was pretty amazing, I have never seen another UI like it.

Green

19:07

@James World of Warcraft comes pretty close. I've seen some insane overlays for my friend who raids. Ridiculous customization.

James

@Green I used to play that too been a long time since I have played an MMO though.

They all became Warcraft clones and Warcraft missed the mark (from my perspective at least)

Green

@James I haven't had the time. There's too much other stuff to work on/do.

AndyD273

I like a game I can pick up for 20-120 minutes when I have time, and not have to schedule around anything else. I had a friend that would get up at all hours to run raids and stuff with his clan... It didn't look healthy

Green

@AndyD273 My friend is a bachelor with a low intensity job. He's got lots of time to spend on whatever he wants.

James

@Green That sounds magical... wistful sigh

Green

19:14

@James Hey, you too can have it. The price to get (back) there is unfortunately very high. It's possible, just expensive.

@James Trade-off one problem set for another. I think he'd like to have children if he could.

James

I wouldn't want to do it full time anymore but man, two or three days every few weeks would be killer.

@AndyD273 You should try Warframe.

Its a co-op shooter but its alot of fun and you can just jump in for 20 minutes or play for hours.

Plus...its free to play

Green

@James Played that one too. It's also a mega-grind fest to get into the higher tiers.

James

@Green It can be yeah, if you're a completionist it would tough.

But the game play is just a ton of fun.

Green

@James Completionist is such a tough play style. You've got this OCD compulsion to grind through anything and everything the game publisher throws at you.

James

I log in once in a while and jump into one of the early missions so I can massacre weird aliens or robots or whatever.

Green

19:19

@James Nova is my favorite frame.

AndyD273

Grinding isn't my preferred thing either. I think I just like stories to much. My brother is trying to get me to play Fortnight... I may try it out.

James

Nova is awesome

I am partial to Frost and Valkyr

No one murders aliens quite like Valkyr.

AndyD273

Right now I'm jumping between Undertail, Prey, and Minecraft on hardcore mode, see how long I can live before I have to delete the world and start over

James

@AndyD273 If you like minecraft you should try out Dragon Quest builders.

Granted you need a Switch to play it...

Green

@James She's the only frame that I saw during play and said "I have to have that." The other ones are cool but Nova was bonkers powerful.

AndyD273

19:22

@James Yeah. That'll be a down the road investment

James

@Green We should jump on and see how long we can last in a survival mission...

@Green Nova is the one that has a confuse ability right?

Green

@James my Steam ID is the first portion of my email address. I may have set my profile to private so I may have to come find you.

James

@Green Alright

Green

@James No, she's the one that does the Molecular Prime. Makes all the monster glow till you hit them then they explode is a gigantic chain reaction. So beautiful.

James

...who am I thinking of

Green

19:23

@James Send your steam ID on hangouts.

Loki maybe? There are a few frames that have a confusion crowd control ability.

James

@Green I need to figure out how to link my Warframe account to Steam, I haven't done that

Green

@James We may not need to.

We can also probably pull my brother in too. He's much higher than I am.

James

...ok pop quiz, favorite melee weapon?

Green

@James Jet Ketang. The big-ass hammer. The one comes to mind first. It's a sweet name too.

James

lol that doesn't surprise me somehow...

I am partial to the Dragon Katana

or the silver looking staff thing...I forget what it is called.

Green

19:28

The Kama was really sweet too.

James

I really liked the dual handaxes for a while

Green

Dual Zoren? I liked those too.

James

yeah that's the one

Green

OH! I own Necros and they have a scythe type weapon. I love that combo.

James

lol

Valkyr with the Katana makes me feel like a samurai

Green

19:33

Ether Reaper was the scythe I liked so much.

Bellerophon

19:59

Can anyone think of an advantage to having a more advanced version of a Siri type system as well as physical controls in a spaceship?

Green

@Bellerophon Amazon Spacelines built the ship?

Oh, sorry, you said Siri, not Alexa.

Apple Heavy Industries.

James

@Green I was thinking of Nyx earlier. The frame with the confuse ability

Green

There's absolutely nothing that Alexa/Siri can do that a command line terminal/GUI can't do.

@James I have that one but don't play her much.

Bellerophon

That's what I was thinking.

James

@Green Duh...

Green

20:04

@Bellerophon Also, the data pipelines between the user and the Voice AI are far more complicated than a keyboard/touchpad. Way more sources of interference/noise.

The UI for a commandline interface can run on 16Mhz processors (probably slower).

Siri/Alexa can't even boot on hardware that slow.

Bellerophon

Hmm, so I need the ship to have enough computing power that the extra needed to run voice stuff is unimportant and for the software to advance enough that it is good at picking up relevant speech from background noise.

Anonymous

21:15

Does MathJax work here?

Bellerophon

Doubt it. Try.

Mithrandir24601

22:11

26

A: Any chance of MathJax in chat?

As a workaround while this request is pending, there exist several client-side workarounds that can be used to enable LaTeX rendering in chat, including: ChatJax, a set of bookmarklets by robjohn to enable dynamic MathJax support in chat. Commonly used in the Mathematics chat room. An altern...

Pleiades

Bit of an odd request, but does anyone know of a good article or list of requirements/ideas (more ideas) for generating gender roles within a society? I’m designing some stuff for a non-human race and actively trying to avoid putting human roles into a race that isn’t.

Shalvenay

22:35

hey there @Mithrandir24601 and @Pleiades

Pleiades

Hey there @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Pleiades

Good. Working on multiple things at once, per usual. You?

Anonymous

$testing$

yep didn't think so

shame

Shalvenay

@Pleiades alright here, not doing that much worldbuilding tho

Pleiades

22:47

@Shalvenay I feel like you’ve been busy doing other important stuff though.

Shalvenay

@Pleiades yeah, xD diving into mechanical drafting, believe it or not!

Mithrandir24601

@Shalvenay Ni hao! Although, I'm off to bed soon again...

Anonymous

Waiting for the new Sandbox, writing drafts . . .

editing editing editing.

Mithrandir24601

@Anonymous You might want to read the link I posted above - it has a few links on how to put a 'chatjax' button, which allows you to use mathjax in chat

Pleiades

@Anonymous Are we getting a new Sandbox???

Anonymous

22:51

Thanks. I'll take a look at it in a min, @Mithrandir24601

Pleiades

@Shalvenay Nice! Whatcha working on?

Anonymous

@Pleiades, yes. It's loading slower, so Monica and Secespitus decided a new one should be posted

Secespitus should post it (hopefully) soon

Shalvenay

@Pleiades assembly workup for a bypass/isolation switch

Anonymous

testing . . . startChatJax $test$. (I feel silly typing this out.)

oh wait its a bookmark

lol

Pleiades

@Anonymous I hadn’t noticed the slower speed, but my home connection is pretty fast so I might just not have noticed lol

Anonymous

22:54

Same here

but the list of links is pretty long

And it'll get more attention

Oh yay I can see it now

Pleiades

@Shalvenay I’ll be honest; I’ve got no clue what that is lol

Anonymous

$\color{red}{\huge{testing}}$

Can you all see that?

With the "start ChatJax" it shows up for me

Pleiades

@Anonymous I’m on mobile, but no

Anonymous

oooh. So it only works for seeing it.

Got it

shame

Gosh. my head is empty of ideas because I've been editing my ideas for the Sandbox too much

Pleiades

I really only post here if I can’t find what I need or I need ideas/explanations in some capacity. Either way I post to the Sandbox first lol. I’m a nervous wreck if I don’t.

Anonymous

23:00

Same

Pleiades

Whatcha working on for the Sandbox, anyway? @Anonymous

Anonymous

@Pleiades: I get it. Too many of the (admittedly few) questions I've asked have gotten bad press: USE THE SANDBOX, PEOPLE!

@Pleiades: A question relating to the earlier icelily question

a question that redoes the "Planet with 27 suns"

and I'm migrating the question about the governmental thingy over because I feel it needs a lot more work

Pleiades

Oh yeah I saw both of those. The icelily one was a bit confusing, and I can’t figure out why you would need 27 suns exactly. That just seems like a LOT

Anonymous

IKR? Long story behind that (like, my book) lol

Pleiades

Man, you post a lot more than I realize XD

Anonymous

23:03

Yes

I edit a lot

Sorry about the icelily one. I'm following Molot's advice and breaking it up into smaller related threads

Pleiades

With the 27 suns one though, unless you have some further justification in-universe, or even numerical significance, I can’t figure out why you’d ever need that many. It’s for a light realm, if I’m remembering right, correct?

Anonymous

Yes.And I originally stated that light could move faster or slower than the speed of light, but that got deleted. Now I realize that could have been helpful for a better system

Pleiades

Bruh honestly it sounds really cool but as soon as I saw it I was just like “why don’t they just have iceflowers?” or whatever those bursts of crystallized water in the winter are called; I’m blanking on the name entirely right now agh

Anonymous

maybe. But they need to be vampiric

Pleiades

The bit about light changing speed wasn’t the issue. Orbital stability was, making the speed of light a non-issue

Anonymous

23:07

Hey . . . . . I just realized I have . . . two vampiric flowers I'm developing, one from the planet that's in the 27 sun system

Anyways. The light speed was important bc it reduces the energy output of the suns and therefore the heat on the planet

and I forgot to mention, uh, some handwavy stuff that involved about 1000000 exatons of unobtanium.

So you'll see it in the Sandbox. Please . .*suspend disbelief as much as you can.* I'd appreciate any feedback.

Pleiades

I still think orbital stability is the bigger issue. Get the suns in alignment first, then figure out the planet. Maybe break that one into two related questions

Anonymous

Okay. I was planning on planning the magnetic field for a separate question anyway

uhoh gotta leave

bye

Pleiades

Aww darn. See ya around

Pleiades

23:23

Anyone have anything for creating gender roles though?

Green

23:40

@Pleiades not sure what you mean by "creating gender roles".

Pleiades

@Green uhhh I guess more like a rough set of guidelines or something. I’m working with a non-human culture but this topic is a bit nebulous and I’ve been looking for a point in the right direction to figure out what would work. Usually I can find good resources when I need them, but not for this lol

I’m probably overthinking this, now that I’m trying to figure EXACTLY what I’m looking for... I know gender roles are in part influenced by biology, but it depends on culture a bit too from what I can tell

Overall, I’m probably more after aesthetic differences, career paths, and behavioral expectations

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