The Factory Floor

SCPilot

00:15

Hi @Shalvenay! how goes everything?

Also sorry to hear that you caught the flu.

Shalvenay

@SCPilot OK save for the flu. did read the link you sent me. wasn't quite as coherently written as I'd have liked it to be

SCPilot

Oh? What was wrong with it?

Shalvenay

@SCPilot didn't seem to conclude

SCPilot

I see.

SCPilot

00:45

Also, the Verrisirs and the drakes actually had a World War just like us, except the testing of atomic bomb actually ended the war when everyone realized how terrifying they just made war. Plus, everyone was spying on each other, so pretty much every nation had nukes.

SCPilot

01:09

So unlike our WWII, nobody dropped an A-Bomb (or two actually) on anyone. But it did allow them to figure out how to use nuclear energy. Plus, they figured out how to recycle the nuclear waste from their nuclear power plants. Took them a while to figure out fusion energy, but they achieved it while we were twenty-five years from the Fall of the Berlin War.

You can imagine the looks on their faces when they discovered that we actually dropped our nuclear weapons on other humans (as well as using other WMDs!). Their response: "Are you furless, scavenging tailless monkeys crazy?!"

SCPilot

01:28

Also Verrisirs and Drakes are very interested in Tarot cards. in fact Tarot Card reading is considered a legitimate science among their culture.

Shalvenay

@SCPilot yeah, they were smart enough not to cancel their fast-reactor program :P

SCPilot

Indeed.

kingledion

01:46

@Shalvenay You shouldn't accept my answer too quickly! Someone might come along with a better one.

Best to give it 24 hours or so

Shalvenay

@kingledion I'll give it a day :)

good answer though :) it's interesting to think about -- although while you mentioned GPS in your answer as that's kind of the obvious piece of navtech they'd need to adapt to, there are a couple things that you didn't mention in your answer that have me wondering...

modern weather forecasting and forecast/condition-report distribution tech, as well as radar and all-weather ops in general. I do wonder how hard it'd be for them to learn how to operate a ship under power vs. under sail, for that matter (it seems to me that if you know how to deal with all the complexities of a multi-masted sailing ship, having a "go handle" instead would be so easy it'd feel like cheating ;)

(not that modern ships can't have complicated propulsion -- if they were put on some sort of platform-support ship or tug that's all cycloidal-drive or azipod type propulsion, they'd have quite the learning curve ahead of them for figuring out all the crazy things the boat could do)

any thoughts on those things @kingledion?

hey again btw @Green

kingledion

02:03

Oh hey, was watching the football cgame

Yeah, so driving a merchant ship under power is real damn easy

Going to anchorage is also super easy compared to a sailing ship, and when they do moor up pierside it will almost certainly be under tug power.

Shalvenay

@kingledion and most likely with the aid of a harbor pilot anyhow

kingledion

You see, the captain will already understand about how inertia works on water, and may even have some analogous experience from oar driven vessels

Regarding the modern weather forecasting, I really doubt many of those backwards merchant vessels are using that.

Shalvenay

@kingledion yeah, "so I can think of that big noisy thing in back as a pile of oarsmen driving a big oar?" "If you want to think of it that way, yeah"

@kingledion yeah, it's interesting to think about nonetheless, and I'd think they'd have access to at least some of the HF broadcasts and the likes

kingledion

I can't stress to you how backwards some parts of the world are. I have seen fishing vessels under sail power with what I am almost certain was a shower curtain (in Sierra Leone in west Africa)

Shalvenay

@kingledion that is a point, yes

@kingledion so yeah, it'd probably be a while before they encountered weather-by-teleprinter or the likes

kingledion

02:07

There are probably a lot of merchants of pretty reasonable size out there that are not using GPS at all

Green

@Shalvenay hey. Just popping in to see what's going on.

Shalvenay

@kingledion would not surprise me

that does leave radar and the other sorts of "all weather" tech on ships, though

kingledion

@Shalvenay And there are a lot that are using it as a stand alone unit, which means you just read the numbers and plot on the chart. That is a skill that takes like 30 seconds to pick up.

Hmmm I didn't even think about radar

Shalvenay

@kingledion aye, that'd be quite easy to learn. "here's a box that tells you what your position is." "oh? that's awesome! I wish I had that back in the day!"

kingledion

Well, that would be more complex to learn (radar that is), but I don't know how critical that is to success. He's not getting on a super big freighter right off the bat, and the smaller ones can always see whatever they might run into in enough time to stop.

The big oil tankers literally cannot stop if they are running into something, so you need like a 60 mile radar picture to keep from running things over.

On the other hand, even Aircraft Carriers will get out of the way of the big tankers. I really can't express to you how big they are

From the bridge of a Navy Warship, the bow of a big oil tanker might be 40 feet or more above your head.

Just massive.

Bigger than skyscrapers

Shalvenay

02:13

@kingledion yeah, in good visibility, a smaller merchant ship won't need radar at all

where it comes into play is in conditions like what sent the Conti Peridot plowing into the Carla Maersk down in Houston

(aka "good luck seeing your own bowspirit from the bridge" fog)

kingledion

Well that one was just shitty piloting in restricted waters. The Houston Ship channel is only so wide. when Peridot's idiot pilot couldn't keep his ship on course, Carla had no option to get out of the way.

If you are a tanker (like the Carla) its better to hit another ship than run aground. If you mess up your bow you probably won't spill too much, if you run aground you could spill most of your load.

Once Peridot was in the wrong lane, Carla basically had to hit her.

Shalvenay

@kingledion while I agree with you that Conti Peridot was the one with the trouble at hand, the concurrence in the NTSB final report on the mishap is quite interesting

kingledion

@Shalvenay Hmm, I'm sure I didn't read it, so I may have the wrong impression

Shalvenay

ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR1601.pdf

(the whole report's only 40 pages and a pretty decent read)

kingledion

Oh man, I was talking to you and the Pats scored again!

Shalvenay

02:17

(but if you want to skip to the concurrence, it's on p.38 of the PDF)

kingledion

@Shalvenay I'll take a look if I have time.

I gotta get back to the game, I'll see you around :)

Future Historian

13:08

Gentlemen?

DISCLAIMER: The following log entries have been translated from the language of the species that was previously known as the Visitors during First Contact and the Human-Xwlnnr War, or the Human-Visitor War as it was known at the time. Some of the translation may not be entirely accurate.

Log Entry 00283945
Local Stellar Cycle: 1.3 (NV_01107.03)
Personnel ID: 1996701 "Gen. Ioxr Khuix"

So, it looks like I am awake; my armies are needed once again. Our next conquest is finally approaching, this being that of the NV_01107 system, specifically NV_01107.03 or as the savages call it "Earth". We …

NOTE: I actually have Gen. Khuix as one of the Visitor PoV characters in the books anyway.

NOTE: Local Stellar Cycles are different relative to the current system a spacecraft is in.

And in this case, it is relative to the destination.

Aka: Earth.

So, 1.3 = 1.3 local stellar cycles on Earth since they arrived in the System.

Actually, I should fix that to 0.3, if you think about it.

Assuming you count entry into the system starting from the Kuiper Belt as part of the local stellar cycle.

Not sure how long it would take to slow down an enter Saturnian orbit to decouple the antimatter deceleration stage before then heading towards Earth.

@Bellerophon? How long does it take to decelerate from a distance of 2.8 light years to enter orbit around Saturn?

And from there, head to Earth with a nuclear pulse fusion engine?

Because I may need some rocket science to help.

Future Historian

14:06

@FerretCivilization? How deep into the Earth's surface could one of the big rods penetrate anyway?

Ferret Civilization

Depends on the density of what you are hitting, but at high speeds that you are using 20 meters, the length of the rod, at minimum.

Future Historian

14:26

Oh.

So, not that deep enough to come close to destroying NORAD for example?

breathes a sigh of relief

Ferret Civilization

Yeah... That was what I have been telling you all that time ago.

Future Historian

So, NORAD is how deep? 618 metres or 2 km?

Because this is not even close.

Oh well.

At least that presents a good opportunity to keep the US government's surviving personnel alive.

At least until they run out of supplies.

Speaking of supplies, how long can NORAD last on its own before running out of supplies?

You know: food, water, medicine. That kind of thing.

Ferret Civilization

Forever, they have an entire group committed to just that task.

Future Historian

Oh.

So, they can make sustain themselves for 10 years and still not starve to death or dehydrate?

Or die of horrible disease?

Ferret Civilization

Yes.

Future Historian

14:38

I wonder about deceleration time.

Future Historian

15:12

@FerretCivilization? So, turns out Earth bought itself another year in terms of the time it has before the Invasion.

3 years before arrival on the Solar System, 2 years before Earth arrival after leaving Saturn.

Ferret Civilization

Okay, are you going to include anything new with that extra time?

Future Historian

15:51

Well, possibly some installations being built on the Saturn Moon System before they depart for Earth.

Oh oh.

Future Historian

16:12

@FerretCivilization? Would adding a bunch of bases on Saturn make the situation a problem?

For humanity to free itself?

Ferret Civilization

Maybe depends on what the bases do.

Shalvenay

hey there @Mithrandir24601

Future Historian

Oh, right.

They are basically meant to refuel the main Visitor spacecraft via refining and extraction of the He3 on Saturn itself, provide resources to build more robotic troops and spacecraft and use the hydrocarbons on Titan to use for vital resources that they need to expand their operations across the Solar System and use for their military capabilities.

Ferret Civilization

Well there's your problem.

Future Historian

Well, 110.3 million total personnel Earth has available (in both reserves and active)..........

I wonder how many it would take for Earth to be overrun, in terms of robotic troops and personnel, ignoring the fact that much of Earth's population has been bombed into oblivion.

No wait.

Earth has 45.5 million active and reserves.

Total 64.8 million active, reserves AND paramilitary.

@FerretCivilization? How many Visitor forces do I need to use to counter this, kinetic bombardment or otherwise?

After all: 45.5 million conventional armies + 19.9 million paramilitary forces = not a good sign in numbers for the Visitors, depending on how big the invasion force is relative to our combined armies.

Ferret Civilization

16:28

Pound for pound it, half it, zero. Could say anything with that.

Future Historian

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

So, how much of Earth's military forces do you think would be wiped out in the initial bombardment?

As in: most of Earth's air forces are dead and most missile silos are useless, not to mention.......wait, how many out of 3.9 billion dead die in the bombardment alone again?

1 to 2 billion, if memory serves?

Mithrandir24601

@Shalvenay ni hao! How're things?

Ferret Civilization

Still can say any number.

Shalvenay

@Mithrandir24601 improving, slowly but surely. as for you?

Future Historian

@FerretCivilization. You estimated 1 to 2 billion dead in the bombardment alone, based on the requisites for a city getting bombed from orbit.

Right?

Mithrandir24601

16:32

@Shalvenay I've just finished my weekly hot chocolate and I used my (no longer) new wok for the second time :) so pretty good, thanks

Ferret Civilization

I never said a number for those that would die, that was what you wanted.

Bellerophon

@Mithrandir24601 Woks are great.

Mithrandir24601

@Bellerophon yep :D I love the way I can just go for the highest temperature my hob can create and just cook things so quickly the only thing I've got time to do is to put more things in the wok

Future Historian

Oh, right.

@FerretCivilization? So, 10.8 million Visitors (both fleshy troops and not so fleshy troops) vs a total of.........hmmmmm....say 38.2 million remaining human military forces = does this mean it would take longer to conquer Earth?

Ferret Civilization

Up to you and the story you want.

Future Historian

16:36

Hmmmmm. True.

Compared to humans, they still have orbital dominance and a HUGE technological advantage.

Shalvenay

@Mithrandir24601 good news is my workshopped question worked out quite nicely

Future Historian

16:55

Is anyone here good with music?

Because I want to try and compose a theme song for the Visitor series.

Bellerophon

17:24

@FutureHistorian I can play a bit.

Future Historian

18:15

:D

Also, does anyone have a copy of Hearts of Iron IV?

I want to try and kill all of you as the Martians in the game's War of the Worlds mod.

@Bellerophon? Do you have Hearts of Iron IV?

And possibly the Together for Victory DLC (since.....some mod features will be broken otherwise)?

Bellerophon

18:36

@FutureHistorian No.

Future Historian

18:55

:(

Future Historian

19:22

Anyone else, then?

Hearts of Iron IV?

Shalvenay

19:50

hey there @Secespitus

Secespitus

Good evening @Shalvenay

How are you?

Shalvenay

improving, slowly but surely, as for you?

Secespitus

Alright here

Future Historian

20:47

sighs

I am officially.....disappointed.

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