The Factory Floor

hey there @kingledion

kingledion

@Shalvenay Hey, whats up

@kingledion not a whole lot, tinkering with adventure-bits here and waiting for parts to come in, as for you?

kingledion

I am just about to leave work......now

Sorry I have to run! See you around

@kingledion ah, cya

Vylix

2:29 AM

@kingledion Better safe than sorry: contact the users via chat and ask if it's alright to put their name on a "leaderboard". If they object, anonymize their name.

Although I feel it's alright to build a list.

hey there @Vylix

@Vylix worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/review/close/stats << is this what you and @kingledion are after?

Vylix

@Shalvenay nah, it's this answer on meta worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5658/34288

Personally, I don't mind being named out, but I'm not sure how the community react to naming.

ah, I see

HDE 226868

3:08 AM

@kingledion I'd second what @Vylix said; it's probably best to ask them first.

Very nice answer, by the way.

hey there @HDE226868

HDE 226868

@Shalvenay Hey there. How are you doing?

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

@HDE226868 alright here, as for you?

Feeds

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How debilitating is it to lose an arm? It's a common enough TV trope where someone loses an arm, usually to great dramatic effect. However, there's a huge variation in how debilitating this, between someone going into shock and dying almost immediately, to someone continuing to fight for the rem...

HDE 226868

@Shalvenay Pretty good.

3:24 AM

@HDE226868 I really wish that I could find a way to get random terrain gen and GIS to play nicely without having to do all the hard work myself pretty much

James

5:29 AM

@kingledion Not really no. If you want to have a conversation I would suggest posting on meta first.

8:43 AM

@kingledion If they are active in the chat it might be a good idea to talk with them here. There is no guarantee that people will see a Meta Post. Theoretically you could vote very often, but never visit Meta. You would need a featured Meta Post to make it at least somewhat visible on the Main Site. And that doesn't sound too nice because it's shaming, for the whole community to see. There are not so many people in the chat, which makes this a bit more relaxed. At least that's what I would expect.

If we have someone voting to close everything that passes by them in the queue then yes, that's a problem. If the votes are all reasonable and the questions needed to be closed, then they're helping the community by being more active.

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Noting that I barely register in those stats, I'm glad other people are keeping the queues under control.

@Separatrix Yes, we need people who are actively watching out for those queues. There are too many people who never look at the reviews even if they have the reputation. It's a difficult topic.

9:09 AM

The biggest problem is making a call on borderline cases or cases where one has no expertise.

My biggest grip with the close queue at the moment is that we seem to close anything that depends on "soft" sciences as opinion based.

gripe*

I think everyone has a few "favourite" tags and a few "hated" tags, as in: you are more strict or lenient with one or the other. For example I know that I skip softer science more often than harder science and that I tend to leave magic open.

I feel like some people don't realize that they could also choose "skip" and instead have a tendency of voting to close if they are not sure, when they should really leave it for others to decide who are sure. Although it might be difficult to start specific discussions without making it a public shaming, especially with those people who are not active in chat / on meta.

I'm not sure how visible the stats are to people with lower rep, but the links in chat and meta give me the names

Personally I would prefer if people started to keep an eye on the stuff they voted to close. Like a "Reminder to close voters", but that you should check back at least once 24 hours later to see if something happened and the OP has taken your or others advice, which should definitely be given when VTC'ing

I don't think that's likely to happen with our most prolific closers

I'd potentially like to see the reopen queue more active, though that's automatically populated if the question is edited

9:24 AM

@Separatrix Which links give you the names? For example the queries that king referred to have to be adapted a bit. (Although the first few names are pretty obvious, but I don't know how he counted me for example - I don't have the 3k for as long as others.)

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/review/close/stats

data.stackexchange.com/worldbuilding/query/768042/…

The first is overall from the queue, which isn't perfect as those with rep can vtc directly from the question

The second is for this calendar year but shows only close votes

Or rather, only successful close votes on undeleted questions

The first shows reviews, not necessarily close votes. I can also vote to leave open. The second needs adapation because it doesn't show me. The minimum rep to be considered for the queue is 10k, but it needs to only be 3k.

Those values are pretty far from what king actually used for his analysis. Especially because the first is also overall, while he focuses on this year.

So he's used the second one, I'm just rerunning it counting users from 3k though

data.stackexchange.com/worldbuilding/query/edit/768633

Not sure if that link will work, I've not tried this before but it's now got you in the results

However it still shows the same few users with massively more close votes than the general population

9:41 AM

@Separatrix Yeah, but I am not sure if that is already the result for the different groups he mentioned here. I mean, the name for the highest "group of 1" is pretty obvious and there are only 3 people available with enough votes for the "group of 2"

But for the rest of the analysis I don't see how we could assume more than "Yeah, you're voting to close a lot of stuff". And that's not inherently a bad thing.

There are a small number of users at the upper end of the scale who were excluded from the previous result

Yeah, not inherently bad without specific user analysis

Voting to close a lot of stuff without any guidance for the user would be a bad thing. But when leaving useful comments I think it's okay. The rest of the community can then decide whether they are right or not

Being active is not a crime.

Being very active is also not a crime

After all, in the period shown, it's only 3 close votes a day

Just a lot more than the rest of us are doing

Yeah, after all the idea of SE is community self-moderation after all. And some people are just more active than others. If people want to see the current close/reopen vote behaviour changed the easiest thing to do is to start a few discussions and actively review stuff accordingly, writing comments to show this way to other users, ...

@Separatrix But that's again not keeping in mind how long a user has the privilege. Again as an example I have my privilege for maybe half the year, so my counts should be higher. I have over 900 helpful flags for example, a lot of which were pre-2k question closure flags.

That's some enthusiastic flagging. I hit high rep fairly quickly due to a couple of early answers and was always nervous of the queues for that reason.

9:52 AM

Not even half a year, my first close review is from September. I spent quite a long time under the 3k.

I got my first gold badge and access to queues within a week. Still in beta at that point though

There are a lot of problems I see with these discussions that could alienate some our most active users and not too many problems with the voting behaviour in general - from some users I would prefer more comments when VTCing and I would love to see the reopen queue being used more actively.

4

@Separatrix It took me about 8 months to get to the close/reopen queues.

Gold badge maybe half a year or so.

What you need is a couple of good Santa questions to come up early on

I think it helps not being christian so I can be cynical about Santa without treading on childhood memories

Ah, I've read those. Some were pretty good.

I may have spammed the gold badges a little, it seems I'm something of a populist

9:57 AM

It's kind of sad that the special reopen room didn't work out quite the way it was intended.

@Separatrix You have 8 answers over 100 votes, impressive

and something close to 10% of all populist badges on the stack

The only really rare badge I can throw in is Archaeologist. I currently am the only one with that badge.

Most of my badges are activity related instead of content related, such as Marshal and Copy Editor.

Good solid community badges those

Awarded for making the stack a better place :)

(That also makes me quite a bit biased when it comes to these discussions - I am quite often part of the "close fast, reopen fast" front, which many think is just a "close fast, reopen never" front.)

It often is reopen never, but the close fast is important for those

10:03 AM

@Separatrix Thanks, but they are not about the content and the content is why people are here after all. I am just better suited to editing sutff than writing it myself.

Content needs moderators and editors as well as authors

I appreciate that some people are very active on the moderation front. We note that some are significantly more active that the rest and hope that this work done with due care and attention but I don't feel it's necessary to check up on this any further.

6

@Separatrix My line of thinking is very similar. I don't think we need to specifically investigate users. But maybe we need some Meta discussions about preferred moderation behaviour, such as the "Reminder to Close-Voters" and similar posts for reopening. They could be made featured posts so that they are visible on the Main Site.

10:58 AM

Hmmmmmmm.

So, shall we begin?

medium.com/@futurehistorian382/…

2:10 PM

Hmm, you know how the price of technology eventually comes down? I wonder what it would cost to make the $20 million dollar man now, and if I could get the leg modifications for less that $25,000?

@AndyD273 Isn't that what it costs to see a doctor for a cold in the US?

4

kingledion

@Separatrix Here is the query I used to count close and opens data.stackexchange.com/worldbuilding/query/768427/…

Note the parameter doesn't work, you have to edit to change the start time variable at the top of the page

2:27 PM

@kingledion I don't know about naming people in the answer it'self, BUT you could post the link to the query you used to get the data in your answer and let people figure it out on their own...

@AndyD273 It's in the line above yours

@Separatrix "In the answer"

I'm not going to edit his answer for him.

He's put two answers in, the link is in the other one

Ah, I didn't scroll down that far. Just read the top 2

And apparently he doesn't have his final version in that answer either

It doesn't show anything really different, the missed people are further down the scale

3:05 PM

@AndyD273? Did you read it?

nuclear explosion goes off in the background, followed by the Soviet anthem playing in the background

@FutureHistorian Sorry, it's on my list, I just have a project I'm really hoping to finish today

And coworkers keep trying to distract me with low priority nuisance problems...

Oh.

I'll get to it