The Factory Floor

JDługosz

07:37

Where is everyone?

dot_Sp0T

08:28

I am here

JDługosz

08:55

What's going on?

dot_Sp0T

10:01

Mostly classes, and fixing my engine

Got the font-renderer working and more performant - now implementing a geometry cache for strings.

And on your side?

JDługosz

10:30

Oh yea, it's day time there?

Going over the Pizza story; editing what I have, thinking about how to add "conflict" and still coming up empty.

Having family over for dinner in 14 hours.

@dot_Sp0T What is a geometry cache for strings?

@Separatrix ever think about what it would be like if real life conversations and events could be edited like a story? Some kind of time-travel thing, splicing time like a video file.

dot_Sp0T

10:51

@JDługosz when I render a sequence of characters (referred also as a string) onto the computer display I need to calculate geometry for each character / the whole string. Instead of recalculating this every time I write, e.g. "Hello", I can cache the geometry for that string and draw it from my cache (so I don't have to calculate 5 letters each time)

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T I see. This is a 3D rendering thing?

@dot_Sp0T There ought to be a general purpose cache template.

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz well, yes and no; text is only 2D in it's nature, so the data is 2D, but I still store a depth, albeit of 0.0

@JDługosz there's always premade stuff, but how are you going to learn new things if you don't try them out yourself first?

JDługosz

"normal" TrueType rendering gives 2D curves.

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz yeah, but curves are math-heavy. I basically pre-render a ttf to a 2D texture with a single channel and then use 'cheaper' texture mapping to draw the letters onto quads

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T So write a general purpose cache. Don't cache geometry based on strings, cache T based on Q. Just an associative collection, plus rules for tracking MRU and capacity and deleting values.

dot_Sp0T

10:54

@JDługosz which is overkill for my need, so I don't :)

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T Not really. What about the logic requires knowledge of the specific types?

What are you writing in, anyway?

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz don't have no specific types sir. Just have String-Keys

Separatrix

@JDługosz, I can think of many stupid things I've said that I would edit out. Though perhaps people would take more social risks

I think the "one minute time machine" is a good example of that scenario though

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T String is as specific type.

@dot_Sp0T E.g. std::map<string,Geometry>

Future Historian

I am back........

Joe Bloggs

11:08

@Secespitus cheers for deleting that post in the sandbox.

Future Historian

@PedroEtCetera? You do realise that the deities I presented earlier were part of one religion out of potentially hundreds, correct?

Secespitus

@Separatrix That one was really funny.

JDługosz

hi everyone

Secespitus

@JoeBloggs Often people forget to delete their drafts. It's become a habit to shorten graduated drafts and flag a mod for deletion as is mentioned in the question post in the Sandbox

@JDługosz Good afternoon, how's your novel coming along?

JDługosz

@Secespitus I wrote a whole short story Sunday/mon in one sitting. I'm fidding with that now.

I need to figure out how to add "conflict" to make it a proper story. In this case, internal mental stuff.

Take a look?

Secespitus

11:12

@JDługosz Ethical conflict?

JDługosz

On the novel, I got a couple paragraphs in a new scene but didn't get very far.

@Secespitus No, love story.

Secespitus

@JDługosz Not right now, got a few meetings throughout the day. But in the evening ( in ~7-8 hours) I'll maybe take a look

JDługosz

It's right at 7000 words now.

Starts out with a pizza delivery...

Secespitus

@JDługosz Now you are making me hungry.

JDługosz

and a girl with a face that cracks every mirror she looks at.

What time there? breakfast here. almost dawn.

Secespitus

11:14

@JDługosz Just past lunch. But I am always hungry.

JDługosz

@Secespitus I'm having family over for birthday dinner, in 13 hours. Grilling grain-fed ground beef outside.

Secespitus

@JDługosz That sounds delicious.

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz that's Cpp

Future Historian

Oh and......gentlemen? In relation to one of the Visitors' religious concepts, you might want to scroll up for more information, because what I am about to ask is related to it.

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T seen the new Visual Studio 2017 previews?

visualstudio.com/en-us/news/releasenotes/…

I've been doing stuff to practice/learn the new Range 3.0 stuff.

@dot_Sp0T assuming you meant C++

dot_Sp0T

11:24

I don't really like Cpp

sorry

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T then why are you writing in it?

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz I am not ?

Shalvenay

11:41

hey there @Mithrandir24601

Mithrandir24601

@Shalvenay rytsas!

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Mithrandir24601

12:05

@Shalvenay could be better (throat problems :/) but I have managed to get @Pseudohuman to join here :)

Pseudohuman

@Mithrandir24601 I do not understand.

Mithrandir24601

@Pseudohuman listcommands

Pseudohuman

Available commands:
Builtin: asm, coinflip, cointoss, eval, fibonacci, help, joinroom, learn, leaveroom, list, listcommands, rand, rolldice, room, unlearn, wotd
Learned: %22have, %24, awesome, calloakbot, cat, era, error, galactic_transform, gtk, lenny, lol, look_of_disapproval, mars, matrix, mithrandy, nice!, reaction, rei-is-rude-boy, salute, scary, smileandwave, tif, xkcd

Mithrandir24601

@Pseudohuman mithrandy

Pseudohuman

Mithrandir24601

12:06

:D

Mithrandir

;)

(that wasn't me, BTW)

Mithrandir24601

@Mithrandir yeah, I read the transcript :P Still neat though :)

JDługosz

12:19

@dot_Sp0T i misunderstood. I asked which language were you using and you wrote “that's Cpp” and I thought it was the answer.

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz if you hover over the cpp you see that I meant your code example - didn't see the question about language

am using Java

JDługosz

@Pseudohuman i want to get a bot I can set up.

Pseudohuman

@JDługosz I do not understand.

JDługosz

@Pseudohuman xkcd

Pseudohuman

xkcd.com

Mithrandir24601

12:24

Hmm...

xkcd.com

I thought that was supposed to display the image?

Journeyman Geek

12:49

naw

I started off with countless problems. But now I know, thanks to COUNT(), that I have "#REF! ERROR: Circular dependency detected" problems.

https://xkcd.com/1906/ would https://xkcd.com/ would not

Rory Alsop

First time I have ever wanted to use the ignore function here...

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop SORRY!

Rory Alsop

Not for you, @JourneymanGeek, but for @Pseudohuman

Journeyman Geek

Also, there's a channel for testing bots.

Pseudohuman

@RoryAlsop I do not understand.

Journeyman Geek

12:51

Unofficial of course

(also VERY good idea to have a trigger other than @username)

Rory Alsop

@Pseudohuman exactly

Pseudohuman

@RoryAlsop (no data available)

Journeyman Geek

Bot Overflow

Room for chatbot-related clutter from Root Access. The bot is ...

We use this for training our bot and when people get annoying ;)

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek there is I think

~$xkcd

Pseudohuman

xkcd.com

Future Historian

16:12

I am back.....

So, gentlemen? You might want to scroll up to my last known message.

Because I think I need some help further developing this religious concept, though it is sort of meant to be a Ying Yang thing.

By that, I mean this: what does that trinity tell me about the Visitors' values as a society (at least the ones we encounter)?

And considering the following information: "The deity's name: Yxwlin (pronounced "Exvilin", which translates to "supreme mother" in an ancient language that has the same status as Latin in 2017), which is basically the supreme being of this particular Visitor religion, with the other two beings are: Kyxopyt (pronounced as Kixarit, which translates to "eternal guardian"), and Vuxtpow (pronounced "Wuxtrav", which translates to "great reaper")", are they matriarchal?

Or is a patriarchal society still a possibility?

Oh and....gentlemen?

This is GSN with some breaking news:

skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/…

@dot_Sp0T? I think we have a....comet problem.

Look up comet designation: C/2017 U1 (Pan-STARRS).

dot_Sp0T

wait, did someone rename the chatbot?

Future Historian

@dot_Sp0T?

Did you see the news?

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian ?

Future Historian

Turns out we have an interstellar comet within our telescopes' range.

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian are you talking about real earth or your world?

Future Historian

16:22

Look up comet designation: C/2017 U1 (Pan-STARRS).

And real life Earth.

dot_Sp0T

might do so after I fixed my buffers :)

Future Historian

C/2017 U1 (PANSTARRS)

C/2017 U1 (Pan-STARRS) is an extremely hyperbolic comet discovered on October 18, 2017 by the Pan-STARRS telescope. With an eccentricity of 1.18, it has the highest eccentricity of any known comet. The biggest caveat to this claim is that the object only has a 6 day observation arc. With an eccentricity of 1.057, C/1980 E1 was the previous record holder. It is the first possible example of an Interstellar comet, appearing to originate from the constellation Lyra. The comment on its official discovery announcement by the Minor Planet Center was: Further observations of this object are very much...

See?

It is suspected to originate from the Lyra constellation, but the actual origin system is still unknown.

JDługosz

is it a bad omen when your birthday cake does not turn out?

Future Historian

@Secespitus? @Shalvenay? You two might want to look up C/2017 U1 (PANSTARRS).

Because I have two words to describe that particular object of interest: "interstellar comet".

We found one, gentlemen.

In real life.

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian Maybe… the observation arc is only 6 days. And for objects coming from so far, you have to adjust for the barycenter of the solar system, not use the sun as a center point. And, it could have been peturbed by a distant KBO on the way in.

Secespitus

16:32

@JDługosz That means your barbecue will be better. BTW: Is this your birthday party and if so, is today your birthday?

JDługosz

Yes and no. Celebration today, bday is 27th.

Future Historian

I know, but.....still.....

This is a start.

And it is not.

To be honest.

Secespitus

@JDługosz Wait, you are celebrating before your birthday?

Future Historian

After all: who on Earth would believe something like an "omen" to even be a thing?

So, it is probably just superstitious rubbish.

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian there have been apparent hyperbolic comets. They turn out to be elliptical when the barycenter is taken into account.

Secespitus

16:33

@FutureHistorian Not that into this stuff, but thanks for the information

JDługosz

@Secespitus That's when the most people could make it.

Future Historian

Well, to be honest, I am not the kind of person that takes superstitions seriously.

I need to have concrete evidence first.

@JDługosz? That is true, but......

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian true; I'm just not happy.

Secespitus

@JDługosz Interesting, wishing people the usual wishes before they actually have their birthday is said to be a bad thing here. Nobody I know would think about partying before, even if more people could make it.

Future Historian

"Further observations of this object are very much desired. Unless there are serious problems with much of the astrometry listed below, strongly hyperbolic orbits are the only viable solutions...." - IAU Minor Planet Center comment (part 1)

"...Although it is probably not too sensible to compute meaningful original and future barycentric orbits, given the very short arc of observations, the orbit below has e ~ 1.2 for both values. If further observations confirm the unusual nature of this orbit, this object may be the first clear case of an interstellar comet." - IAU Minor Planet Center comment (part 2)

JDługosz

16:35

@FutureHistorian I see.

Future Historian

Sorry. I had to divide the comment into two parts, due to the word count limitations set by the chat software.

JDługosz

@Secespitus And where is that?

Secespitus

@JDługosz Germany.

Future Historian

minorplanetcenter.net/mpec/K17/K17UI1.html

Here.

The data is here.

JDługosz

Here in the US, it doesn't matter before or after. Just get the celebrations in the right order.

Future Historian

16:37

Hmmmmm.

has an idea

@JDługosz? If this is the first interstellar comet......I just had an idea.

And........this may take place in the same Universe as the Visitor series (which is the story of our struggle against the Visitors, even though it was practically futile, since when they return, they exterminate humanity and colonise Earth).

Secespitus

@JDługosz BTW: Do you have a link to your short story that you were talking about before? I might be able to read it now (though it will probably take some time).

Future Historian

And SPOILER WARNING: This is long after humanity is exterminated.

JDługosz

@Secespitus here: adobe.ly/2hZ5ppX

@FutureHistorian Amazing that they can see an object only 10s of meters across, on an automated whole-sky scan now.

Future Historian

What if the comet is host to some sort of dormant Von Neumann probe (in this story), and next time the comet passes by our Solar System, an Xwlnnr (pronounced Exvilnier, and is the native name of the Visitors) mining expedition lands on it, only to accidentally awaken the bloody thing, thus potentially putting the Xwlnnr settlements on VXT_458871 (initial designation, now known as Sol) at risk of being converted into raw materials by a Von Neumann probe now gone Berserker probe?

JDługosz

Very interesting too, that they spotted it on the way back out. Just coming from around the sun!

Future Historian

16:44

Now, that leaves something of an inconsistency......where is that dormant Von Neumann probe coming from? One of the other interstellar civilisations or some older civilisation that is now extinct, but prior to this, sent various self-replicating probes to other stars, hoping to establish contact with other civilisations, but in the meantime, would stay dormant?

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian I think such probes will outlast the species sending them, typically. They operate on such a long time scale.

Be like the Doomsday Machine in Start Trek TOS.

Future Historian

I know. But how long could such a probe stay dormant without its programming becoming corrupted?

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian massive redundancy, or long-lasting onboard power.

Future Historian

And how can I make it work without violating the fact that interstellar societies have only existed in the last 10,000 years of galactic existence?

JDługosz

Maybe it spreads out a huge area to collect starlight.

Future Historian

16:46

And there are only five of them?

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian In your universe? Maybe that 10K is the known current civs. Older ones have gone aready, or its coming from farther away. It takes 100K years for light to cross the galaxy; who knows what's happening over there.

@FutureHistorian Sounds like a good WB question, if it hasn't been asked already.

Future Historian

Because here is the thing: 5 interstellar civilisations exist in the Milky Way in this world, each unaware of the other four existing, and have not discovered signs of anything predating them (up until this point), meaning it is either extragalactic or these were basically more advanced versions of the Voyager probes.

JDługosz

@FutureHistorian Well, none of them would know if another neighbor existed more than 10K lightyears away.

Future Historian

And the species that sent them never had the chance to expand outside their Solar System, even though they were very close to doing so.

JDługosz

That is a small part of the size of the galaxy; not even the whole thickness of the disk!

I'm going to check my cake again. See if rebaking it made it better or destroyed it completely.

Future Historian

16:53

Well, the Xwlnnr (aka: the Visitors) are from the world known as Kepler 452b to humans, and they had already conquered 375 species (including ours) by the time the Invasion of Earth ends.

And they think they are the only interstellar civilisation, as do the other four, which are unaware of them and each other.

Hmmmmmmm.

Wait a minute.

If the Galaxy would take 5 to 50 million years to colonise with just ONE civilisation, how long would it take with five?

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz yeah, it might go amok

JDługosz

18:06

@FutureHistorian depends on their locations. If 2 on opposite sides, cut the time in half. If near each other, no change.

This goes at the top of my must-read list: goodreads.com/book/show/6139476-how-i-proposed-to-my-wife

goodreads.com/book/show/6139476-how-i-proposed-to-my-wife

We need more url expanders.

Secespitus

@JDługosz "her poor mood" <- might be worth to mention that in a short sentence before. You mention it later, but it somehow feels weird. "ten after 10 PM" <- is it usual to write it like that? I learned to write the number in words up to a dozen and then switch to numbers, but I am mainly slightly confused by the inconsistency. "the mistletoe indecent" <- indecent or incident?

On page 3 she suddenly starts calling him Rob most of the time without any invitation. "discovered that here* shoes*" <- typo "What would **be be drinking" <- typo "pretty girls" <- typo

"They were not mad [...] She just smiled" <-- introduce the mother in a sentence between those two? "music to you listen" <- typo "Not more popcorn" <- when did they have popcorn? "yaw popping yawn" <- typo "felt his bare chest" <- typo Why is high underlined? No other word is, making this look a bit weird.

JDługosz

Even has tenticals!

Secespitus

Interesting story. Nice to read

JDługosz

@Secespitus thanks. BTW the patagraphs are numbered so you can refer easily.

@Secespitus Incedent: frudian slip by the typo corrector? LOL.

When did they have popcorn? Lost in an edit I guess.

@Secespitus calling him Rob: you mean instead of Robert?

Secespitus

@JDługosz Ah, didn't see that. I will remember for the next time I read something you post here.

@JDługosz Yeah, the short form was there without any kind of introduction or explanation.

JDługosz

18:15

@Secespitus 10:10 pm — I don’t know. I didn't like repeating “ten”.

Secespitus

@JDługosz Not sure what you mean. That version was neither in your script, nor in my message, nor can I find it in the dictionary.

JDługosz

@Secespitus cultural, I guess. I'll add a line to make it more universal. Note her nametag was first name, showing casual culture.

@Secespitus dictionary.com/browse/indecent indecent/incedent

Swap the c and d

@Secespitus High is underlined because the type is italic for normal. So how do you write “I feel high.” in italics?

Secespitus

@JDługosz I think we are not quite on the same page here: "the mistletoe indecent" doesn't make any sense if I am not missing something here. "the mistletoe incident" on the other hand makes sense.

@JDługosz I feel high.

That's how you normally do it. Invert the italics.

JDługosz

@Secespitus I see. Google corrected it when i checked, defeating the purpose.

dot_Sp0T

incident is something that happens

indecent is the way it happens

JDługosz

18:26

@Secespitus I didn’t like that — when the word is on the end, it messes up the boundary between the inner-thought and the narrative. Anyway, since I had that more than once already, I'll make sure I use a semantic style, not direct formatting. How inner-thoughts are formatted can be decided at publication time.

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Yes, which is why "the mistletoe indecent" doesn't make any sense and I suggested to replace it with "the mistletoe incident"

@JDługosz If it's about the end you could make the sentence longer. I feel high right now! for example.

JDługosz

@Secespitus Thanks. I wonder if she'll be a breakout character? The whole success was summarized to in 2 paragraphs on the coda.

@Secespitus Chat is in 1.8 milimeter type on my device… easy to miss subtle letters.

Secespitus

@JDługosz I don't know what a breakout character is, nor do I know what coda means.

dot_Sp0T

What about the indecent mistletoe?

JDługosz

List of breakout characters

A breakout character is a character in serial fiction other than the intended main character who becomes a more prominent, popular, discussed, and/or imitated individual. The series from which the breakout character springs may be in the form of a novel, magazine, television series, comic strip, game or combination. == Animation == Randy Marsh (voiced by Trey Parker) on South Park. For the first few seasons, Marsh was simply just the father of Stan and Shelly Marsh and husband of Sharon. However, over time, his character was developed further. As a result, his wildly over-reactive persona...

dot_Sp0T

18:31

Also I am now considering writing a short story about a person that uses the wrong words for things but believes them to be the right ones

@JDługosz I don't even think that this is readable

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Reading that would probably drive me crazy.

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus driving crazy - crazy taxi!

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T ...this discussion was a mistake

JDługosz

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coda#Noun the last numbered section is a coda. You could have ended with “all the days that followed.” dropping in 10 years later is not a necessary part of the same story.

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus neither......*nor*....

JDługosz

18:35

@dot_Sp0T I figured it out the otger day when I wasn't able to read it. Should be well with normal vision. Just not easy or comfortable. I wish I could change it.

@dot_Sp0T I would just hate to be the editor. Bad enough to proof first person POV… the author might know correct usage and grammar, but the character talks that way, “Me and my brother went to town.”

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Pretty sure you can also use either without the other one, though they are typically used together.

JDługosz

@Secespitus Yea, his sentence was correct.

dot_Sp0T

@JDługosz more like "Me and me brother wont to town"

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T Now that would be eye dialect which is another layer.

@Secespitus As in, a native speaker in the US would say it that way.

Secespitus

@JDługosz Thanks

JDługosz

18:43

@Secespitus Haha since you used either within that sentence (without or) I’m tempted to transform it using DeMorgan’s identity so it uses neither.

Thus being an example of the rule it is asserting.

@Secespitus She probably never lets him answer the door after they got together.

dot_Sp0T

Well yes and no, it's not the best example

AndyD273

It slowly dawns on us that our parents knew exactly what they were doing.

I seem to recall a better one, but I can't find it

maybe it was a different web comic...

Secespitus

@JDługosz Probably not :D

DaaaahWhoosh

You're saying that the responsibility for avoiding miscommunication lies entirely with the listener, not the speaker, which explains why you haven't been able to convince anyone to help you down from that wall.

AndyD273

19:08

@DaaaahWhoosh Not that one... it had to do with using big/fancy words that you don't know the definition of, and the punch line was something like "This pizza is totally elucidate."

DaaaahWhoosh

er... smbc-comics.com/?id=1957

probably not the right one, but at least it's pretty much the same joke?

Pleiades

19:36

So... I'm kinda walking a thin line with one of my world's cultures, and I'm not 100% sure where to go from here. While the race itself is pure fantasy, the culture is more or less the product of a (for me) pretty ridiculous amount of research on a real culture and I've gotten to the point where I can't tell if I should change something or put the concept on hold for a while. Like, I know someone somewhere will take offense to anything and everything, but ugh why do I do this to myself xD

AndyD273

@Pleiades Unless you put in stereotypes that apply to that culture that don't make sense for the fantasy culture, you might not have to worry all that much.

DaaaahWhoosh

I don't really get the issue with creating a fictional race that is similar to some sort of real-life stereotype

AndyD273

I mean, if you say 'oh those Jingleboppers, always [insert very french stereotype here]. when will they learn??' then yeah, that would be bad because lots of people will figure out that you're talking about the french. but otherwise no one will likely notice.

Pleiades

The issue usually comes about with concerns of cultural appropriation, racism, or some other big, bad, nasty thing from what I can tell, but everyone's definition is so widely varied it's hard to find any concrete footing so the story itself doesn't get lost in the storm of people arguing over what might honestly be a small detail

DaaaahWhoosh

there's an interesting example that I'm thinking of. I've heard it suggested that Mickey Mouse and other similar cartoons were based around minstrel-type characters.

so, like, putting on blackface and acting like an idiot is definitely racist. But if you have a cartoon mouse that looks like a guy with blackface who acts like an idiot, is it still racist? Or is it far enough removed to be fine?

Pleiades

19:44

The culture in question is honestly pretty obscure, even in the areas they live in, but it's one of these things where I want to highlight and bring attention to the culture itself and (maybe) bring up some of the issues they face now or have faced historically.

DaaaahWhoosh

@Pleiades honestly it sounds like you'd be doing more good than harm

Pleiades

@DaaaahWhoosh Which is by all means the point, but when mixed with some of the more fantasty aspects of the race that the culture belongs to, some stuff gets muddy because the race wasn't originally developed with this culture in mind

DaaaahWhoosh

well, I still don't see the issue with it. But I'm still kind of confused about what is and is not appropriate when dealing with other races/cultures

apparently most cultures don't mind cultural appropriation as much as the US does

Pleiades

Well, I'm in the US so it's very relevant in my life f^-^') And to be honest, in most cases, the people from those cultures themselves don't care so long as the representation is mostly accurate and inoffensive. My bigger concern is that people will inevitably get hung up on the wrong thing and lose sight of the big picture altogether

DaaaahWhoosh

20:01

there comes a point where you just have to stop worrying what other people think

the more famous your story, the more phallic images people are going to find in it. It's unavoidable, your story will be full of phallises. You have to accept that and move on

4

Pleiades

Wow, I didn't even think of that. That's very true. Thanks!

DaaaahWhoosh

o7

dot_Sp0T