somehow, I got in my head a squad of Uruk-Hai scouts seeking out a city in the fog and finding the city's railyard instead, and proceeding to get themselves splattered, crushed, and squished in various ways
I can only imagine how humiliating it'd be for the Uruk-Hai -- "we lost our best scout to what? A giant hunk of steel and corn syrup?!?!" "Yeah, he got his foot stuck in a group retarder and got splattered thoroughly by the next car off the hump."
..."Why is there a sword in the drip pan on Track 3?"
As the title suggests, where should we go to make contests? Are contests, for that matter, even allowed on any of the Stack Exchanges?
For clarification on where I am going with this, let me bring up the Maps of the Fortnight series on the Alternate History Forum. It is a series of map conte...
After all: I am not exactly sure about the US Marine Corps having any survivors left to keep fighting.
I ask because I am going to need to start working on developing some of the characters.
And one of them is a US Marine at the time of the Invasion.
So........any chances that by the time the GPI is established, the US Marine Corps could have some divisions survive to be a part of the Resistance?
NOTE: This character is assigned to the US 1st Marine Division at Camp Pendleton near San Diego, which is where his character arc kicks off. And to no one's surprise, after he survived the initial kinetic bombardment and Visitor transports moved into the city, he was caught up in the fighting with a small platoon of scattered National Guard units that were supposed to keep riots under control that erupted after First Contact and keep the public from panicking.
Oh and a minor detail: when the kinetic bombardment started, it was 07:50 hours Pacific Standard Time.
So......early in the morning in San Diego. As for here in London, that would be around 14:50 hours UTC when the Invasion begins.
Speaking of which, in this timeline, I am probably going to be killed either in the initial kinetic bombardment of Earth or in the first few hours of the Invasion.
Gentlemen?
If I would not survive the Invasion, which of us is more likely to survive if it happened?
Because I feel that for some reason, the chances anyone in this chat will survive the Invasion of Earth by the Visitors is 0.000001%.
@JourneymanGeek? You think you can survive the Invasion of Earth or will you probably end up like me: a dead corpse or pool of blood buried beneath the rubble?
I know that. But in the event of an actual invasion of Earth, could anyone in this chat survive?
Or will we all just be killed off in the first few hours of the Invasion?
I say "we" because I include myself, and my survival chances are VERY slim, given I live in a major city (aka: London).
So.......? @JourneymanGeek? Do you think anyone here could survive a real life Invasion of Earth or not really?
So.....back to the character work?
As I was trying to explain: Our marine character getting swept up with the California National Guard is probably not a good thing, considering he is trapped behind enemy lines by the time night rolls in, while he receives a transmission from his commanding officer to rendezvous at......uh.....err.........hmmmmm. This is bad. I cannot think of a real life location to rendezvous for EVAC so that the character and his National Guard friends can actually escape the ruins of San Diego.
And besides, I am not sure the San Diego International Airport is a good place to try and escape anyway, given the fact that whatever aircraft come to try and rescue them will probably get blown out of the sky by drones.
@JourneymanGeek? Any locations the group could use as an extraction point to escape, since an air transport will likely get shot down before they have a chance to evacuate?
Also, if we are talking about coilguns being used by most Visitor forces (we can take into account the GPI later), can any of our modern vehicles and body armour take a projectile being accelerated at velocities of 5 km/s?
How will alien contact in a vacuum will look like if aliens and their vessels are made of anti-materia? Is it just a big "boom" as soon as spacesuits/ships touch each other? Will there be some warning signs that tells to stay away? What is the safe distance by the way?
How is an extraterrestrial spacecraft even composed of antimatter anyway?
And I am also wondering whether our conventional body armour and our modern military vehicles (aka: Humvees, tanks, artillery, helicopters, etc.) could survive projectiles being accelerated in their faces at velocities of 5 km/s.
"How is an extraterrestrial spacecraft even composed of antimatter anyway?" -> Because of they originate from antimatter galaxy or something like that. For them we are from antimatter and they are from regular matter.
@FutureHistorian infantry armor? no. vehicle armor? standard or composite armors wouldn't work, but I suspect the projectile would still be defeated by reactive armor systems
I feel that by the time we do, it may be already too late.
And I mean in terms of regular use.
I mean, we can see a few tank divisions get significant upgrades, but the Visitors can manufacture robotic soldiers and drones, plus clone their dead soldiers much faster than we can possibly replace any of our tanks and rebuild our battered air forces.
In fact, most of the initial Invasion's robotic soldiers and cloned troops are actually assembled and grown inside the spacecraft. After the Invasion though and during the GPI's grip on Earth, they transition to establishing Lunar outposts to mine out local resources for use in the production of their robotic units, and also establish a more advanced robotics factory and cloning facility. Not to mention their contingency plan in case the Resistance gets out of control.
Not that the spacecraft was not self-sufficient, but it was used as a temporary means of replacing losses until the majority of the planet was conquered so then they could set up shop on the Moon just to keep Earth in check.
Not that the spacecraft was not self-sufficient, but it was used as a temporary means of replacing losses until the majority of the planet was conquered so then they could set up shop on the Moon just to keep Earth in check.
Thankfully for humans, though, we are not THAT stupid. Then again, neither are the Visitors.
After all: humanity can adapt to whatever threats it encounters. The Visitors will NOT allow their weaknesses to be exploited that easily.
@Shalvenay? Just a question: do you think that 10 years after the Invasion, the Resistance could possibly come up with a plan to knock out the bases in the Lunar South Pole?
The main objective is to destroy that railgun, though destroying the spacecraft and the Moon base is considered a secondary objective.
Well, then. Step 1: Hack a bunch of GPI/Visitor robotic troops. Step 2: Sneak a few Resistance members in there as "prisoners". Step 3: Wait for three to four days before landing on the Moon. Step 4: Put the "prisoners" in their cells while two of the robots split up from the rest of the other robot "guards" to sabotage the solar panels and disable the fusion reactor. Step 5: Once the power is out, escape with some EVA suits and destroy the railgun before the power comes back on.
Well, then. Step 1: Hack a bunch of GPI/Visitor robotic troops. Step 2: Sneak a few Resistance members in there as "prisoners". Step 3: Wait for three to four days before landing on the Moon. Step 4: Put the "prisoners" in their cells while two of the robots split up from the rest of the other robot "guards" to sabotage the solar panels and disable the fusion reactor. Step 5: Once the power is out, escape with some EVA suits and destroy the railgun before the power comes back on.
Step 6a: If the railgun is destroyed and the power is still out, find a way back to Earth. Step 6b: If the railgun is still intact by the time the power comes back on, use it to destroy the spacecraft, and THEN destroy it.
Step 7a: Return to Earth with a smile on your face. Step 7b: Make sure the sacrifice of the Resistance infiltrators was not in vain.
@Shalvenay then they're telling their subjective truth - which is the truth in turn; no, I mean if they are aware that they do not tell 'the truth' then the only thing they can be called doing is lying isn't it?
I'm actually wondering if there are machine tools out there that have to take more abuse (shock/impact, abrasive wear, etal) day-to-day than what a sword went through?
@Shalvenay? I am back........and I do want to ask something. Do you know any decent locations where the characters for that specific story arc could attempt to EVAC from the San Diego ruins?
The characters need to rendezvous with the rest of the 1st Marine Division, even though there is only one marine in their group and the rest are from the California National Guard. However, I was planning for the characters to EVAC from the San Diego International Airport, but the chances are that their air transport may be shot down en route or while trying to escape.
So.........any alternate places to get the characters out of there?
Do take note: the only reason that marine is even with a platoon of survivors from the California National Guard units stationed in San Diego at the time of the Invasion is because he was not with the rest of his division by the time the kinetic rods fell from the sky and was stranded with these National Guard troops as drones and transports descended on the city during the initial fighting.
Exactly. That is what that marine did. Then the drones and transports descended on the city and he got swept up with the California National Guard trying to fight back.
Oh and in an unrelated note: I realised something.
The Visitor Invasion of Earth is during the American 2020 Presidential Elections (which will probably be suspended "during the duration of the crisis"). But before the Invasion, is Trump still in charge or has he been removed from office (either impeached or Congress enacting Article 25 of the American Constitution), with Pence having taken his place?
Because I am thinking of coming up with a few scenes from the perspective of a few world leaders during the Invasion, and I am thinking: is Trump still in charge by the time of the Invasion or will Pence be in office when the Invasion begins?
True. I just want your opinions. That is all.
Then again, not like it matters since they are dead either way.
After all: if Trump is in charge, he dies in the initial kinetic strikes and Pence takes office during the Invasion, with emergency powers being used to keep America afloat until he and the rest of the surviving US government are dead. If Pence is in charge, he escapes to either Mount Weather, Raven Rock or Cheyenne Mountain, but he is still going to die. However, just to keep everyone happy, I could have Trump lead America in its final stand but......still dead either way.
After all: if Trump is in charge, he dies in the initial kinetic strikes and Pence takes office during the Invasion, with emergency powers being used to keep America afloat until he and the rest of the surviving US government are dead. If Pence is in charge, he escapes to either Mount Weather, Raven Rock or Cheyenne Mountain, but he is still going to die. However, just to keep everyone happy, I could have Trump lead America in its final stand but......still dead either way.
However, the only things that this one story decision could affect are: America's state before the Invasion, the US stance on the initial First Contact with the Visitors and the time it takes for America to be overrun, while the remnants of the US military flee into the countryside and form the Resistance, along with the other national armies left standing + local militias and guerrilla movements.
The second factor being that the Invasion's beginning was not immediately after they first entered Low Earth Orbit. They just stood there, seemingly doing nothing while trying to analyse our collective knowledge via the Internet, since radio signals already out in space is not enough to understand humanity + analysing our planet's defensive capabilities. A few weeks later, the initial kinetic bombardment of Earth begins.
Moving on.....in the meantime, though, the UN and its member states began debating, bickering and arguing over how to respond to the Visitors, while SETI is busy attempting to establish communications with the Visitors and analyse their movements in orbit.
Why? The initial response to First Contact was....mixed. On one hand, some nations welcomed the Visitors and hoped to establish diplomatic relations with them. On the other hand, some nations feared the Visitors, and they wanted to take precaution when it came to First Contact. A few of those nations that were not convinced the Visitors came to Earth in peace actually wanted to take preemptive military action (under UN approval, of course).
While these camps presented their points, the weeks passed and the debates began to turn to pointless bickering and arguing while the Visitors slowly began to learn about us. That is why I need to know who is in charge by then.
At least in the States. That way, I can get an idea of what their stance is like so I can know whether the US government will want to establish diplomatic relations with the Visitors, or take either precautionary or preemptive military action.
So, if Trump is still in office, will he want to be friendly with the Visitors or take some military measures, either precautionary or preemptive? What about Pence by comparison?
Fair enough.
NOTE: I already know that Putin and Xi/[insert random replacement for Xi Jingping here] will not be too keen on negotiating with the Visitors, given China's past history of being subjugated during the Quing Dysnasty, and the RoC, and Russia's history of being attacked a lot of the time prior to the development of nuclear weapons. So...........
As for Europe.....well, most of it is in favour of negotiating with the Visitors, along with a chunk of the developed world. Unfortunately for Europe, most of the continent falls during the first day of the Invasion, along with the -Stans, North Korea, parts of the Middle East, most of Africa and a chunk of Latin America. And that is just me getting started as to which regions fall on Day 1 of the Invasion.
Other parts that fell within the first day of the Invasion are: parts of the Far East (mainly parts of China's coastline, Tibet, Southern Japan and the former Korean DMZ, with the rest of South Korea still involved in brutal street by street fighting), most of the West Coast of North America (on both the US and Canada's end), European Russia, parts of the Eastern Coast of North America, especially New England, the rest of Canada's major cities, Washington DC and most of the Gulf Coast.
A little minor detail is that the reserve US Marines are supposed to be garrisoned in New Orleans. Well, bad news: the reserves were all wiped out when the city fell before they had a chance to fully organise.
So, the 4th Marine Division (the US' reserve division of marines) is completely wiped out in a single day at best, and a few hours at worst.
But back to Trump or Pence for who is in charge during the Invasion.
During the debates on the response to First Contact, I need to know what consequences either choice could have.
NOTE: The only reason I asked in the first place was to avoid letting my own biases get in the way of the story.
Sorry if I started ranting. I just......well, kind of need some H-E-L-P on this one since I am kind of bad at character development (most of the time, now that I think about it).
@FutureHistorian Uhm if you're talking about the Stargate joke then I'm sorry. But if you insinuate that my 'git gud' was a joke then no sir, no joke at all. There's really only getting good at something or working together with someone that can compensate for one's own weaknesses
@Shalvenay? I know our anti-satellite missile defences are probably stretched to the limit during the Invasion (since the spacecraft is 1,500 km above Earth in LEO), but..........do you feel that a barrage of anti-satellite missiles (either conventional or nuclear-tipped variants) could actually allow one of the missiles (preferably one of the nuclear-tipped ones) to survive getting shot down by point defence lasers and damage the spacecraft at the very least?
Actually, @FerretCivilization. I kind of want to know which branches of the US military have survived, along with any of their divisions, regiments, battalions, fleets, etc.
Still, given the fact that most of our air forces worldwide are completely destroyed, would we have enough aircraft to launch that kind of attack?
I feel like all the branches would be surviving in some form or another, depending on if the US was hit first or not, and if it was from everywhere or one side. And I would believe, given some of the remote ass places we have air forces bases, some nations would still have planes, though they might be useless.
To be honest, the Visitors managed to know about us through radio signals coming from Earth as they approached our Solar System and after they arrived, they spent weeks trying to learn about our planet's culture, society, history and defences through the Internet and also the various separate military computer networks that exist.
@FerretCivilization.
Besides, every nation on Earth was bombarded with kinetic rods almost simultaneously. Most of our nuclear arsenals and air forces were destroyed and many centres of finance, government and industry were devastated, though not destroyed.......yet.
Ah, everywhere at once, and these aliens are going to know were every military base is. I would have a hard time believing that Kinetic rods would destroy all of the nuclear bunkers out there, after all they were designed to be hit with nuclear weapons during the Cold War. Though even then they would not be able to hit everywhere unless they just wanted Earth a molten crater.
Besides, most of Earth's remaining air assets would have to be from navies that have aircraft carriers, which means the US, Russia, China assuming the Type-001A is operational by then, Britain, considering the HMS Queen Elizabeth may be in active service by the time the Invasion begins (perfect timing for it to enter service; thank you Royal Navy), France, Italy, Spain, Thailand (much to my own surprise), and India may all have aircraft carriers, though Turkey is currently building one.
Whether it will be ready to help defend Earth is another matter entirely.
And doing some research, turns out that aircraft carrier is still not complete by then.
@FerretCivilization? You do realise kinetic rods are NOT city-destroying doomsday weapons, correct?
I know most about the US and Canada, but I remember reading somewhere that the Swiss had underground air bases. And yeah, that is why I would have a hard time believing most of our nuclear arsenal is gone.
They are specifically meant to serve as bunker-busters, and considering you mentioned nuclear bunkers, these kinetic rods, if sent on a barrage, could actually, if not destroy the nuclear bunkers (though I am not sure land-based missile silos could survive or air bases carrying strategic bombers with nuclear delivery capability), at least render them useless.
Besides, they have enough rods to cause a significant amount of damage to our planet's military forces.
So........how many kinetic rods could a lone nuclear silo take before being either destroyed or rendered useless?
By "rendered useless", I mean incapable of launching ICBMs.
So, could the Visitors have enough kinetic rods to keep humanity from launching any ICBMs?
Well, the US alone has many bases like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Underground_Command_Center that can reportedly take up a lot. While bases that launch ICBMs are meant to be able to launch unless a direct hit right in the hole as the missile was firing was done, and the US has 1,800 of these on standby openly reported.
Oh and also devastate centres of government, finance and industry. At least enough to have a few major cities lose entire blocks to kinetic orbital bombardment.
Those survivors only exist because they fled into the countryside and started a guerrilla campaign against the Visitors in collaboration with local militias and guerrilla movements that spawn up after the Invasion.
However, most of the world's military forces are wiped out in two months, though initially, the Visitors expected them to be eliminated in two weeks.
Well, they could, but there is only one spacecraft, not a constellation of them (or an armada in simple terms).
Besides, they have enough kinetic rods to take out most of Earth's air assets, nuclear assets and also devastate much of the planet's major cities. And considering this is not the first time they have conquered less advanced civilisations, they were probably somewhat overconfident when the Invasion started.
So that single spacecraft wiped out multiple places at once, should have plenty more, but can't take out rebel bases. Like even if you say the rebels move a lot, most military's would be using the same tactics after losing their major centers of command.
However, the spacecraft could try to use kinetic strikes at the tactical level rather than the strategic level to save enough rods to bombard Earth in case of open revolt.
Probably be a smart thing to do if they had enough to take out most of what you said they took out. I would go with what TV tropes says on the subject for alien invaders, "Don't beat around the bush"
I know that. Those would probably sunk by drones over time, and if they managed to launch any SLBMs, they can just shoot them down either with drones or with the spacecraft's point defence lasers as the Invasion progresses.
Unfortunately for the Visitors, they might initially be a problem.
I could probably imagine a few going under strict radio silence, stay submerged for their 3 or so months off of stockpiled food. Then just launching everything they have when most the rest of the world is just done for.
As for that comment on TVTropes' guide for extraterrestrial attackers, that is exactly what I am going for, @FerretCivilization. Oh and do take note: as the occupation begins, the Visitors focus less on wiping out the surviving pockets of human resistance and more on reconstructing specifically designated cities of "economic, political, cultural and historical significance" via the GPI, as well as prop up the GPI.
Not to mention they also need to arm and train the GPI's military, police (both normal and secret) on how to use Visitor technology and weapons (though the ones they are given are of lower quality by Visitor standards, but still enough to pack a punch and make the Resistance's job difficult), organise the internal structure of the GPI's political system, and convince survivors to live in the cities the Visitors rebuilt (even though most of Earth's major cities are still abandoned).
Well if that is the case then I go back to what I said before, the military would still be able to limp along under what is left of local command, or most likely independently.
Well, that is kind of the thing. Our surviving military forces are initially somewhat.......err......disorganised in the immediate aftermath of the Invasion. They slowly start to reorganise, and coordinate with local militias and guerrilla groups outside of the GPI city centres, though not to the extent that would be necessary to fight a conventional war, since if that happens, the Visitors would just bomb them from orbit with kinetic rods.
Did the world have like zero warning of the arrival? I don't know about other nations but I know the US Pentagon keeps a lot of plans of the stupidest scenarios that could be called into play even after the place is destroyed.
So, the remnants of the pre-Invasion armies operate less like conventional armies and more like insurgents. As the years pass, though, the Visitors begin to rely more and more on the GPI, meaning that if the GPI fails to keep the Resistance in check, the Visitors will increase their involvement based on the extent of the Resistance's threat to the occupation. So as the Resistance gets bolder, the Visitors will be more directly involved in stomping them out.
@FerretCivilization? To be clear, humanity had detected some "near-relativistic anomalies" a year before the Invasion, but it was not until early 2020 when humanity finally realised the "anomalies" we're extraterrestrial spacecraft. However, most of the spacecraft were not headed to Earth, except of course for the spacecraft that humanity mistakenly designated NRA_00015. The New Horizon's probe took a blurry image of the spacecraft as it flew past it and the spacecraft began slowing down....
After a few weeks of analysis though, SETI analysed the image taken by the New Horizons probe and the image contained a spacecraft, which seemed to be pointing away from our Solar System (mainly since it is trying to slow down per the fact that this thing uses antimatter beam core engines), and the bloody thing was ~20 km in diameter. By the time SETI finished its analysis, it was already flying past Saturn. The next day, SETI went public with its discovery.
Then a lot of the military would be preparing as soon as they knew it was not just a rock, even if it ended up being peaceful contact. Government officials of high importance would also be moved to their more 'secure' locations.
Would not matter if the government thought it was peaceful or for war, it would be the military's job to prepare for the worse case scenario as soon as the situation lands on the table.
Some nations wanted to establish diplomatic relations with the Visitors (oblivious to their plans for humanity), and others were a bit less enthusiastic about establishing diplomatic relations with the Visitors, and some advocated for either precautionary or preemptive military action.
Of course, the UN has a protocol for this kind of situation, and SETI did not recommend taking military action, since that would "send the wrong message to the extraterrestrial visitors", hence the human name for them. Their native name is difficult to pronounce and originally, I wanted it to be the Xwlnnr (pronounced Exvilnier), but it is difficult to pronounce for most people at first glance, so I am just calling them by the human name until I can think of a better native name.
The military of those nations that want to establish diplomatic relations would still be on standby for a war. No one in the top of the military is just going to be like, "Okay we'll just do business as usual."
Then again, those protocols are guidelines, not exactly meant to be followed. But since they just arrived, it would be kind of idiotic to try fighting them the minute they enter orbit, since whether they are peaceful or violent still needs to be assessed.
However, in the weeks following First Contact and prior to the Invasion, the UN's member states started debating on how to respond to the arrival of the Visitors, but as the weeks passed, that turned to bickering and arguing between the world's leaders. By the time anyone noticed their true intentions, it was already too late.
Not saying that anyone would start shooting right as they entered orbit, I just know that the military would be on standby and ready for action. Not just curb stomp blind sighted by orbital bombardment when they knew there was something in orbit.
But until then, the Visitors would be the least of their concerns. You have to account for civil unrest due to the initial panic and hysteria in some parts of the globe.
So, basically, both before and during the Invasion, the national governments need to keep the public from panicking.
I would think that would work in the military's favor slightly still. Gives time to spread forces out while 'Keeping the peace' and making sure that one bomb from space does not just wipe out the entire system of command nations have in place.
By that, I mean keep mass hysteria in check, since that could lead to riots by panicked civilians if it is before the Invasion and if it is during the Invasion, desperate civilians trying to escape the Visitors and survive to see another day. Basically, at least some military police, SWAT teams, riot police, armed police or National Guard units should be deployed to major cities to control unrest.
Besides, I also pointed out that the Visitors have access to the Internet after the first arrive, as well as any separate computer networks in use by national armies. So, basically, they already know that humanity's military forces are on standby, and they also know that if even one air base or nuclear silo slips by unaffected by kinetic strikes, their conquest of Earth would be slower and more of a grind.
And another thing: air bases and nuclear silos are not the only places the Visitors bombed from orbit.
And another thing: air bases and nuclear silos are not the only places the Visitors bombed from orbit.
For some reason that first part seems like it will be one of the few big flaws in this story. What keeps humans from being able to reverse that, also what about older outdated operating systems of communication still used. And yeah I remember you said major cities too, but unless you want your aliens to hit bumfuck everywhere small military forces could go and stay on the move. Also, if the occupation is just focused on major areas I am sure the small bases in Alaska and northern Canada could draw a line, not cross it, and be fine.
As the title suggests, where should we go to make contests? Are contests, for that matter, even allowed on any of the Stack Exchanges?
For clarification on where I am going with this, let me bring up the Maps of the Fortnight series on the Alternate History Forum. It is a series of map conte...
The Factory Floor
The Factory Floor