The Factory Floor

Schwern

04:14

Is there any way to get the attention of a user? A new user just deleted their question while I was working on a big answer for it. I think they got discouraged. I'd like to ask them to reopen. It's this one: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/72041/…

Or, can I get a bunch of folks to vote to undelete it? Seriously, I wrote 1000 words.

dot_Sp0T

06:36

@Schwern welcome to WB.SE

Worldbuilding Meta

06:57

0

Q: How bout adding a "Broad" or "General" tag?

There are some questions that need to be pretty broad. They fit the site, they follow the rules, but their implications inherently make them too "broad" because answering a bit of it will lead into a chasm of answering a bunch of othe questions. For example, "What are the effects of higher gravi...

Pᴇᴛᴇ

07:26

@Schwern Yeah, I'm not sure we can get that question back once the user has deleted it. If you post whatever you remember about it to the Meta Sandbox, we can wrangle it into an acceptable question and get it posted, and then you can answer it.

Pavel Janicek

08:40

Vote to reopen pleaseeee

7

Q: How to stop evil site moderators?

Imagine internet site. And keep in mind we are in Worldbuilding, so everything you are going to read is completely imaginary, alternate world. This site is called ApocalypseBuilding and runs exactly like Worldbuilding does. People go there and discuss hypothetical questions how to take over the ...

apocalypse near-future secret-society

Did my best to narrow scope and keep humor inside

0

Q: Nuclear reactor control panels

I am looking for a detailed, close up photographs or diagrams of the panels in a nuclear reactor control room, like this: https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDzLQgvmIx1jf9EdBctD4rk4l2ABD_PhFuynY5GX1sX6i93Ik_ ... but close enough to read all the labels on the controls. It is ...

hard-science nuclear-power control

Fun fact. My friend works for police and when se was studying police academy, terrorism, she got A+ for obtaining blueprints of one of Czech nuclear power plant

Obviously, after presenting them, they made sure these plans are properly discarded

Pᴇᴛᴇ

09:13

@PavelJanicek - Updated question looks good to me. I'd certainly sign up for an ApocalypseBuilder stack

Pavel Janicek

Cool. Now lets wait for reopening :)

This is as thrilling as waiting for moderator election results

Pavel Janicek

10:38

@TimB hello :)

Tim B

10:55

hi

Pavel Janicek

11:21

So what are you planning today? Ruling the world?

Tim B

11:35

tried it already. People are stupid though so I gave them Trump and left them to wipe themselves out.

Pavel Janicek

True. So when are you going to rule by yourselves?

Tim B

people are stupid. I'd have to kill too many of them, it would get tedious.

Pavel Janicek

After how many public killings does get it tedious?

Just hypothetical question

Tim B

11:57

no need to make them public. capital punishment doesn't work as a deterent

Pavel Janicek

Really?

Well, I did once read that biggest deterrent is knowledge that you will get caught

(And punished)

Pᴇᴛᴇ

I think it depends on the political reason for the capital punishments. In the French Revolution, the executions were theatre. In Mosul, something entirely different.

Pavel Janicek

And the type of punishment is irrelevant

Of course, people like to be entertained

@PavelJanicek It certainly doesn't belong on writers. Whether here is right I'm not sure but this does seem like a useful resource for anyone building a world with nuclear power stations in it so it doesn't seem terrible. — Tim B ♦ 20 mins ago

If anyone interested, I found simulator of nuclear power plant

However, it is fully in czech language

Tim B

12:15

@PavelJanicek No, getting caught is rarely a factor. People always think they will never get caught. Last time I looked the science was fairly conclusive that capital punishment doesn't work as a deterent.

Pavel Janicek

@TimB I agree with premise that death penalty is not deterrent

What I say is, that somewhere I did read is knowing the probability

But I maybe mix it with other thing which is Prague subway, tram and bus system

Yeah, it must be the other

Where if you are local in Prague, it is cheaper for you to ride without ticket and pay fine than to actually buy a tickets

Tim B

yeah, people rarely act rationally though

Pavel Janicek

@TimB That should be first sentence in book about huanity :)

JDługosz

13:05

@Schwern I saw the Flag, and undeleted. Go ahead and post your answer. (I've had that situation myself before)

@PavelJanicek I had that on the Atari 400 (casette tape) back in the early 80s.

Pavel Janicek

Now I am Jealous

JDługosz

@dot_Sp0T a bit late, since he’s been here since the place opened!

@Schwern This seems to be a pet subject of @Schwern’s, so it’s especially interesting to have him finish. I suppose if the answer is a worthy showcase, than people can help the OP edit the question if necessary, rather than throw it out.

Pavel Janicek

13:25

And I am live again :D

10

Q: How to stop evil site moderators?

Imagine internet site. And keep in mind we are in Worldbuilding, so everything you are going to read is completely imaginary, alternate world. This site is called ApocalypseBuilding and runs exactly like Worldbuilding does. People go there and discuss hypothetical questions how to take over the ...

apocalypse near-future secret-society

Please do not kill me, allmighty mods

Journeyman Geek

ahh, melodrama. Breakfast of champions.

Pavel Janicek

I love drama

Especially melodrama

Green

@PavelJanicek It's so over the top!

Journeyman Geek

(I personally don't like that question ;p)

or more precisely...

it would make a great AFD question

Pavel Janicek

You do not have to like it. You have to love it

And seriously. If its out of scope (again...) feel free to vote to close

And if you feel it is poor quality, feel free to downvote it

I will not get melodramatic about it

Journeyman Geek

13:39

@PavelJanicek I don't quite get the scope of WB ;p

Sure, I answer stuff. Occationally utterly sarcastically

DaaaahWhoosh

@JourneymanGeek On Worldbuilding Stack Exchange, scope gets you!

Pavel Janicek

@DaaaahWhoosh In Worldbuilding, scope makes you

Journeyman Geek

@DaaaahWhoosh Most of the sites I use have one best answer.

WB does not. Its also purely speculative ;p

DaaaahWhoosh

@JourneymanGeek it's not always speculative... but yeah, it does tend to go that way

Journeyman Geek

Yup

DaaaahWhoosh

13:44

I think we should be a lot more like RPG or Writers, but we end up being closer to a What-if site

Journeyman Geek

Which seems to be the natural evolution of the site

Pᴇᴛᴇ

@PavelJanicek Your question's been re-opened.

Pavel Janicek

@Pᴇᴛᴇ I am already hanging out national flag outside of window

Pᴇᴛᴇ

It's a small victory that makes me happy.

Swier

Hey people, I recently asked this question, and I'm not quite sure yet how to narrow it down (I'm still pretty new to this stack). Can anyone give me some pointers?

DaaaahWhoosh

13:55

@Swier it seems to me like it's going to be hard to narrow down in a way that would make it re-openable, but it looks like you already have 13 answers

Pᴇᴛᴇ

@PavelJanicek I have had to adjust my answer to reflect the change of the question.

Pavel Janicek

@Pᴇᴛᴇ I love you

Green

@Swier Perhaps narrow it down by the type of invention you want to consider. Say, weapons or weapons tech.

Swier

@DaaaahWhoosh Yeah, I'm already very happy with the amount of answers. I'd just like the question not to be 'off topic' as such.

Pᴇᴛᴇ

@PavelJanicek Thank you

DaaaahWhoosh

14:00

@Swier yeah... in that case I'd agree with Green, except you're in a sort of grey area now. You could narrow down the question, but then some answers would be invalidated.

I can't remember if we ever decided the best course of action when that happens

Swier

@Green I've thought about that, but it's more the unexpected angles I'm interested in.

Would adding some clause like: 'that would have the most effect on today's world' and maybe 'that was invented more than X (say 50) years ago' be a viable solution?

Green

@Swier I'd argue that you can still get unexpected angles within a narrowed focus. Indeed, you might get even more unexpected results with a narrowed focus as that narrowing will allow answerers to search more deeply.

DaaaahWhoosh

@Swier the first one helps, it makes answers objectively judge-able. The second still seems like it'd be too broad

Secret

Hey guys, I have a magic type question. Suppose I have some wand based magic. I then use a model to show that the magic can be reproduced provided a certain sequence of movements of the wand is followed, did I just turned the magic into science by making it reproducible and explain it in terms of the moving pattern of the wand?

DaaaahWhoosh

@Secret there's still the magic in the fact that making those motions in the real world wouldn't do anything

what's the quote... any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

3

I think making a science out of your magic is good for worldbuilding, it makes the magic less of a plot device and more of a tool that your audience can wrap their minds around

Secret

14:09

yeah, I am really bugged by this quote. If any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, then we won't have two different terms for technology (either science or magic). So what is the most important criteria that we make people to perceive some given phenomenon as magic and some phenomenon as science. I initially thought it is reproducibility, but magic in harry potter is highly reproducible, thus reproducibility does not seemed to be a defining criteria of magic

Swier

@Green Yeah, good point. It still leaves the issue of invalidating current answers, but I don't know how big of a problem that actually would be...

Green

@Swier Generally, you don't want to invalidate answers if you can help it. If you do, maybe leave a comment on each answer to indicate to the answerer that the question has changed.

Secret

Another example is that in some fictional works, there are magic as part of the setting, but the magic is so sufficiently analysed that there's a magic theory behind it, yet nobody called that a science. So that means, there is something that magic either has or missing from science

Swier

@DaaaahWhoosh mainly the first one, and then the second one to exclude something like smartphones (not the best example) which are still developing quite quickly, so the impact of inventing them 5 years later is relatively big

@Green Yeah, the comments seem like a must in that case

Green

@Swier As long as you're considerate of the time people put into your question, you can probably get away with a lot.

Pᴇᴛᴇ

14:16

Groan. After all this time, I finally figured out why the name 'Phoebe' was chosen...

Swier

@Secret I'd argue that magic's just poorly understood science or mechanics (and/or alternate reality science). What might be a more useful distinction between magic and science is one used by many writers: that some people inexplicably can't use and/or aren't affected by magic

DaaaahWhoosh

@Secret the way I see it, in the best fantasy stories with science-like magic, the only people who actually call it magic are the ones who can't use it

plus, there's things that are actually just normal science (like chemistry or medicine) which are also called magic by people who can't use it

Swier

@Green, @DaaaahWhoosh, thanks for the input. I will think on it for a bit more and update it later today.

HDE 226868

@PavelJanicek I love the premise, but some of the edits, including @MichaelKjörling's recent one, make the whole thing a little confusing.

Green

@Swier Sounds good. I'll be around if you need any more thoughts on the matter.

DaaaahWhoosh

14:30

@Swier glad to help, you were in a bit of a bind

HDE 226868

For instance, the note indented with > looks like an impromptu notice that might be added by mods for whatever reason. Any new users seeing the question would be . . . . puzzled.

Swier

Now I gotta get back to making my code stop performing magic

Pavel Janicek

omg. I love it :D

Pᴇᴛᴇ

Unfortunately, I think it might be working too well and people might think it closed.

And I'm upset that my answer is no longer getting up-votes.

Journeyman Geek

That happens eventually ;p

DaaaahWhoosh

14:35

@Secret I guess there are also magic types that involve otherworldly powers. Like demon summoning or invoking the gods. I think those things can remain separate from science because there's a sort of expectation that it's more like asking for things than it is cause and effect

Journeyman Geek

Science isn't just replicabiluty

Its understanding.

Pᴇᴛᴇ

There's plenty in science that scientists don't understand

Just because they can prove the theory of something doesn't mean they understand it....

DaaaahWhoosh

yeah, I'm kind of wondering now what 'science' actually means

Journeyman Geek

Science is a process tho

Pᴇᴛᴇ

And sometimes an accident

Journeyman Geek

14:38

Spontaneous generation

Spontaneous generation or anomalous generation is an obsolete body of thought on the ordinary formation of living organisms without descent from similar organisms. Typically, the idea was that certain forms such as fleas could arise from inanimate matter such as dust, or that maggots could arise from dead flesh. A variant idea was that of equivocal generation, in which species such as tapeworms arose from unrelated living organisms, now understood to be their hosts. Doctrines supporting such processes of generation held that these processes are commonplace and regular. Such ideas are in contradiction...

Secret

on the science tech side of things, how many of us actually know how the iphone etc. works in the nitty gritty details (o and also programming, where a code give completely unexpected results that is (insert suitable word)). It is so difficult to distinguish between science and magic

DaaaahWhoosh

@Secret I don't really think there needs to be a distinction, at least not an objective one

Secret

@DaaaahWhoosh Agreed, religion based magic is often easier to distinguish from science in fictional works than non religious magic such as those rule based magic in harry potter

Pᴇᴛᴇ

For anyone who listens to podcasts, I'd recommend The Infinite Monkey Cage which is co-hosted by Prof Brian Cox. It makes for really interesting and fun listening.

DaaaahWhoosh

these days, I find it hard to listen to anything that I can't speed up to 2x speed

it's been so weird this week, I'm on a business trip so I've been watching Youtube videos on my phone and I can't change the speed settings, everyone is talking so slow

Michael Kjörling

14:51

@HDE226868 I figured that was more or less the point, but I did openly invite rollbacks if I went over the top, so...

Swier

15:10

more on science and magic: 'doing science' is attempting to build a model of something, which explains and predicts how it will behave. There's no reason this 'something' can't be magic. Unless this magic is intrinsically impossible to predict. (At which point you can still make predictions with some uncertainty due to statistics) Come to think of it, whatever the underlying effect is that causes the uncertainty principle matches this definition of magic quite well...

Secret

Hmm... for this example, I guess quantum mechanics will be correctly identified as a science because while it is probablisitc, at least the probabilities are predictable by the model...

PatJ

Howdy people

Hmmm, magic talk.

Michael Kjörling

@PatJ At twice the speed.

Pᴇᴛᴇ

@MichaelKjörling - Not really. Daaaaawoosh just slows his brain by half - everything else then appears to be 2x speed. It's the easiest way.

Michael Kjörling

@Pᴇᴛᴇ Ah, so that's where the username comes from?

Pᴇᴛᴇ

15:18

I'd imagine so....

PatJ

I like to thing that magic has the idea (or at least essentialism) behind it.

In magic, "human being" is relevant to the laws of physics.

Michael Kjörling

@PatJ Now... what if humans were the only creatures in a world not capable of magic?

PatJ

@MichaelKjörling That would show that "human being" is a relevant physical concept in itself, as it's the only creature incapable of interacting with that part of physics.

Michael Kjörling

@PatJ Good point.

PatJ

If you look at, for example, Battlestar Galactica. When they travel at FTL, that's an alternate science. But when you talk about angels, destiny and premonitions, that's magic.

Dualism is part of magic.

Michael Kjörling

15:25

So premonitions are magic, but déjà vu is science...

What does that make of weather forecasts? :)

PatJ

@MichaelKjörling It's not the idea of anticipation, it's the idea that the mind can get it by itself.

Déjà vu

Déjà vu, (/ˌdeɪʒɑː ˈvuː/; French pronunciation: [de.ʒa.vy]) from French, literally "already seen", is the phenomenon of having the strong sensation that an event or experience currently being experienced has already been experienced in the past. Déjà vu is a feeling of familiarity, and déjà vécu (the feeling of having "already lived through" something) is a feeling of recollection. Scientific approaches reject the explanation of déjà vu as "precognition" or "prophecy", but rather explain it as an anomaly of memory, which creates a distinct impression that an experience is "being recalled". This...

DaaaahWhoosh

15:41

@MichaelKjörling the great thing about my username is that it meant nothing when I devised it, but can have a variety of meanings applied to it

for instance, now that I'm in HEMA, it kind of describes what it's like to fight me. I seem to excel at dodging attacks that really should connect with considerable force

I like to think that's what my name is about, absolutely committing to an attack and then completely missing with it

Pᴇᴛᴇ

Oh, that makes sense, I wondered what HEMA stood for.... Discount shops here in the UK are just as bad.

DaaaahWhoosh

oh, huh, guess I've been beaten at my own game. Yeah, by HEMA I mean Historical European Martial Arts

Pᴇᴛᴇ

Pretty much the same as I thought then...

TrEs-2b

16:23

howdy

DaaaahWhoosh

o/

Pᴇᴛᴇ

Wow, I just had a flash of deja vu. I could swear that I've seen you say that before.

HDE 226868

@MichaelKjörling Eh. I added an impromptu thing at the top in case anyone was confused, although maybe that group just contains me. :P

TrEs-2b

Are you a parrot looking for single white people?

www.PolllyWantsACracker.com

Pᴇᴛᴇ

Hmmm. Zombie apocalypse, with sharks... Now there's a question begging to be asked.

DaaaahWhoosh

18:49

@Pᴇᴛᴇ how about a world with no dry land, where humanity survives on boat cities, and fishes for their main source of food?

then zombie sharks attack

if a zombie shark bites you, or you eat a zombie shark, you become a zombie that's really good at swimming

over time you develop tough shark skin and rows of shark teeth

the easiest way to stay safe is to stay away from the water, but that's where all your food comes from

these are the stories of Chum Squadron, an elite team of divers, as they search for food... and avoid the hordes of zombie sharks doing the same thing

they can't afford to waste precious harpoons, they have to reel in their kills... and hope that those kills stay dead

3

Schwern

19:22

@JDługosz Thanks!

dot_Sp0T

19:54

@JDługosz that's why I didn't vote for you

Mithrandir24601

21:10

@Swier to me, the uncertainty principle is one of the easiest things to understand in quantum physics. If anything, that just demonstrates how confusing quantum physics really is the more in-depth you go

dot_Sp0T

21:46

@DaaaahWhoosh Waterworld?

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