The Factory Floor

TrEs-2b

00:07

@NexTerren The Podcast is still a likely dream, though other hopes may have to be done on the blog

Nex Terren

What's so hard to accomplish with the podcast?

TrEs-2b

00:20

we are not sure if medium supports audio files

Nex Terren

00:52

?

ArtOfCode

09:50

@TrEs-2b I don't believe it does.

Nex Terren

What's "medium?"

ArtOfCode

The platform our blog currently lives on

Nex Terren

Oh. Soundcloud and links. Bam.

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren yeah, that's not an ideal solution though

Green

12:26

I need some help naming a system. The system that will exercise an automated file transfer product, all day, every day. The servers to be exercised are named Charybdis and Scylla (after the whirlpool and monster of Greek legend). I could name the tester something lame like "Baseload Tester". I'm looking for something a bit more interesting.

ArtOfCode

@Green get the Markov chain generator out

If it's doing heavy load testing, call it Medusa.

Green

@ArtOfCode I'm gonna do a million transfers in 75 days ranging in size from 1MB to 10GB.

ArtOfCode

@Green Medusa.

Green

sisyphus is another good option. The guy who has to push the rock up hill continuously.

Sky

13:13

@Green how about Hermes? He is like the god of literally What's app , totally fits the bill for someone who transfers millions of files.

I meant. something instead of someone , but you get the point right?

Green

Yep :)

Sky

Hydra might be a ok one as well, send one file but more take it's place

Green

Yeah, that's a good one too.

Any ideas outside of Greek mythology?

Sky

The Bifrost would work

Nex Terren

Niagara.

Green

13:21

How so? The Bifrost is a bridge, isn't it?

Nex Terren

Or 'Noah' in reference to a flood of data.

Green

how about "flood tide"?

Nex Terren

Or that.

Or you could be haxx0rz and call it "FludTyd."

Sky

Well it's a bridge, and since you transfer files from one end to another, that's exactly what a bridge does right?

Nex Terren

@Sky A bridge transfers files? :D

Green

13:24

@NexTerren Oh gosh, that's horrible. Mock disdain Sir, please! This is a respectable enterprise establishment! Please take your gutter trash language elsewhere!

Nex Terren

@Green ...You know you want to.

Be all cool like dem script kiddies.

Green

shakes head oh, them script kiddies.

Sky

Valkyries since they take the dead to Valhalla maybe?

Nex Terren

13:42

Hm. This question: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/51182/…

Not the actual intent of the asker, but could chainsaws be redesigned as a way to, instead of cutting, grab and force a shield/weapon out of an enemy's hand?

DaaaahWhoosh

@NexTerren you could probably just use a hook

equal and opposite forces, anything you do to their shield you also do to yourself

Nex Terren

Would a hook be effective against a sword, though? Seems like that'd be difficult to maneuver...

DaaaahWhoosh

there's the khopesh, or kopis... I forget which

it's basically a hook sword

Nex Terren

And yes equal and opposite forces, but we're pretty much guaranteed that the chainsaw will be considerably more massive than the enemy's sword/shield, so any equal-but-opposite shove on it will be less effective.

DaaaahWhoosh

@NexTerren I'm just saying that you have as much chance of losing the chainsaw than them losing the shield

Nex Terren

13:45

Why firing a bullet doesn't send the firearm back several feet.

Hmm.

Sky

? I thought they do?

Nex Terren

@Sky To whom/what are you asking about?

Green

@NexTerren Trivial answer, yes, probably. But what advantage would have over a simpler tool that could do that same thing?

Nex Terren

@Green I'm not sure. It seemed like a brainstorm idea, and I was trying to think of something, but when I thought it over I couldn't think up with a really solid argument for it.

DaaaahWhoosh

I guess that's what pilae (pilums?) are for, you either kill the guy or mess up their shield so they have to ditch it

and that way you don't have to worry about actually getting it off their arm

Green

13:50

@DaaaahWhoosh I didn't know that's what pilae were capable of.

DaaaahWhoosh

I believe the idea was that they'd bend and/or break on impact, so you couldn't get them off once they hit

Green

@DaaaahWhoosh I like that kind of sneakiness though. Don't strip an enemy's shield, make him give it up on his own.

DaaaahWhoosh

"When once fixed in the shield it was impossible to draw them out"

Green

@DaaaahWhoosh That's about the level of ingenuity and tactics I'd expect from the Romans.

DaaaahWhoosh

@Green yeah, they sure knew how to design a pointy stick

Green

13:55

@DaaaahWhoosh I can't help but remember that Monty Python skit containing "What about with a pointed stick?!"

Sky

I wonder if people actually carried multiple shields last time

Like you could place 2 bucklers over your arms and a kite shield over your back so that you can get it out when you need it?

Green

@Sky In saga-era Icelandic ritual combat, combatents were permitted three shields.

But that's not really the same thing.

...or situation as an open combat field.

Nex Terren

@Sky I'm not aware of any historical examples of that, even carrying smaller shields. I think they sometimes carried multiple short swords/knives specifically designed for use in the offhand as purely defensive (the Japanese and Koreans come to mind, as well as the European blade breakers).

Don't think the blade breakers were used on the battlefield, though? Hm.

Serban Tanasa

May Chthulhu snore upon you all!

Nex Terren

@SerbanTanasa Chthulhu instagram: "Mai bae caught me sleepin"

Sky

14:02

The Japanese had en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanab%C5%8D that seem to be quite effective at destroying swords actually.

Bb zzzzzz

James

@Green Odysseus was the Greek hero best known for passing Scylla and Charybdis,

@SerbanTanasa May the fire of Glarnak cleanse your soul.

Green

@James true. I'd rather not use Odysseus if I can help since it feels like an over-played name.

Serban Tanasa

I don't have a soul, sold it for a bowl of soup years ago

James

@Green Hmm...well I believe Heracles killed her at one point...

@SerbanTanasa What kind of soup?

Green

@James stone soup?

James

14:07

@Green I believe her father was Phorcys

(I love Greek mythology)

@Green That was a good deal. He should be proud of his bargaining prowess.

2

Green

@James Yeah. Though it depends on if he got the stone soup before or after the villagers put in all the ingredients.

Serban Tanasa

@James Hearty Ambrosia, with flakes of Orichalcum and steamed Soma leaves, with a nice loaf of Manna on the side. A shot-glass of 280 proof Alkahest and a Knurd coffee on the side.

James

@ArtOfCode I should probably get around to writing other articles...though I am a bit lacking on inspiration. Anyone have ideas?

Serban Tanasa

@James, also Ichor meatballs

Green

@James I'm rolling around some world-exposition articles for Universe Factory (need to write them though.) Perhaps, something like that?

James

14:11

@SerbanTanasa And then he died as his body burst into a swirl of beautiful multicolored flames, leaving nothing more than a pile of ash that appeared to be smiling.

@Green I suppose I could elaborate on my "what worlds are you building" meta post and do an overview of my world.

Green

@James Given the questions I've seen from you, I'd be very curious to read about that world.

James

did you see the meta post? Its a pretty in depth overview.

Green

@James I haven't. It's been a long time since I've done anything WB related.

James

@Green Check this out

8

A: What worlds are you currently building?

Seminosia (there’s a linguistic joke there, anyone get it?) Technically speaking the western continent is named Seminosia but as the eastern continent plays no part in my story (at least not at this point) its close enough to a name for the world. World Details: The planet is earth like in ...

Serban Tanasa

@Green too busy chatting on the factory floor to do any WB work?

2

Green

14:15

@SerbanTanasa sad face Yes, sir.

Nex Terren

14:48

...Today's XKCD is fantastic.

Green

@NexTerren Agreed.

James

15:08

Anyone want to help me pull off another populist?

5

Q: Sealing a wound: ice or fire?

Assume that a magician has the ability to create both flames and ice. His Muggle (for the lack of a better word) friend is wounded and is bleeding profusely. Traditionally, in most fantasy books where modern technology does not exist, cauterization would be used to seal that wound. However, I kno...

@NexTerren Hey, I asked a couple clarification comments on your question before I go about answering it.

Nex Terren

15:31

@James Another populist?

@James Looking at it now.

@James Okay, so my actual end goal is that in my setting a virus is going to be released that results in significant economic depression (where the after-effects are months to come), without it being nigh civilization-ending levels of destruction. I'm trying to pin down a rough number so the reader doesn't read how many died and go "...well that's stupid..." either by killing too few or too many.

My initial guess was that having 20% of the people die, with no meaningful time for infrastructure change (be it private, government, or medical) would be enough to send the economy into a crash/downward spiral because of the raw, direct impact, the compounding effect of X industry affecting Y industry, and the fear it would cause (as region-wide mood significantly affects commerce).

But I didn't want to throw 20% out there in case it was totally wrong as to not pollute the answers, as this is by no means my field of expertise.

Morrison Chang

Greetings, So I found via HackerNews this lovely post: mewo2.com/notes/terrain on Terrain generation which made me think it should be an answer here or perhaps a wiki entry and started up writing a meta question which pointed out the meta question on wikis - and couldn't quite tell what the expectation should be - so I come to chat as ask I just make a entry in the geography tag or should it go elsewhere?

Nex Terren

@MorrisonChang That... is an incredibly awesome page by a quick survey.

As to your actual question, I'll leave that to others to say.

Thales Pereira

@NexTerren hey there!

Nex Terren

@ThalesPereira Hey!

Thales Pereira

I wanted to continue that discussion, if you don't mind :P

DaaaahWhoosh

15:46

@MorrisonChang I get the feeling there's a good place for that somewhere around here, but I can't remember where, nor can I find it

Nex Terren

By all means!

DaaaahWhoosh

@MorrisonChang All I can say is there is a worldbuilding-resources tag you can use if you want to self-answer a question on the main site.

Thales Pereira

So, think this way - Let's suppose I was to describe accurately Medieval Europe, regarding all those strange customs they have.

Green

@MorrisonChang Holy crap that's amazing!

Thales Pereira

If tackle this as historian, I would describe a extremely corrupt community of douches of limited wit that had serious problems solving simple math problems

Nex Terren

15:50

@ThalesPereira You made me chuckle, but go on.

Thales Pereira

xD

Green

@NexTerren Seconded.

Thales Pereira

If I tackle this a writer, however, I wouldn't waste 20 pages describing how the almost-non-existing sewage system of the medieval cities worked. I would tackle the world using those poetic words that don't really belong to a history book. For example:

"A small, lonely white pigeon crossed the skies above Porthsmouth, dodging the several columns of black smoke that littered the city skies. The little bird makes a brief stop on the top of the roof of the central church and diverges his attention to a cesspool nearby, on which a swarm of flies feasted on the filth. On the street level, rats raced themselves around buildings for little pieces of food. "

(It's a shitty paragraph, but it kinda shows the point)

James

@MorrisonChang I agree with @DaaaahWhoosh, ask a question on the main site for which that could be a good answer.

Then give it a few days and add your own answer

Thales Pereira

A historian is good to relate stuff, but a worldbuilder is the best one to ilustrate it.

We are, on this site, people that are used to translate reality and fiction alike to something entertaining. We are not teachers - we don't really explain in the smallest minutia how stuff works, but we do present it in a entertaining way. Kids yawn when listening to a history lecture, but almost never blink when presented to the same stuff on a more colored, entertaining way.

Nex Terren

16:00

@ThalesPereira So I'd argue as soon as you want to do away with the flies, the poverty, the lack of education, or whatever else and in whatever fashion and want that to affect the answer (or anything that has to affect the answer) you've just made a fictional construct which is absolutely the realm of WBing.

If you want something perfectly realistic (and real-world), or want a perfectly realistic (real-world) something to work off of, like actual festivals, that's History. Any deviations not only make the question out-of-scope of History SE (so they'd vote to close) but make it on-topic here.

BUT I'm not a Mod, so that's just my thoughts.

Although I am fairly certain they would VTC in those situations if you tried posting it there.

Thales Pereira

Hmm.. I suppose that you are correct that, for perfectly realistic stuff, a few other SE's may be better.

You made me think, now... I may need to get a bit more restrictive on what I consider a good question.

DaaaahWhoosh

@ThalesPereira that's right, come to the dark side

Thales Pereira

xD

@NexTerren To be fair, now that I stop to think about it.

@NexTerren You are correct on that. It's not because something will be used on a work of some sort that is valid to put it here.

Sure, Biology.SE can't answer a question about how much dragons eat or how mermaids live, but they can tackle questions about how natural selection and evolution works.

2

(For real-life stuff, I mean)

Nex Terren

@ThalesPereira Absolutely agree with that summary.

I also encourage taking the strictly (or very close to strictly) "real world" questions to other stack exchanges because you can get far better experts on them. Normally people are able enough to then pick through the well-researched answers for what they want as a storyteller.

Somebody had a question as to why a certain plant wasn't domesticated, why it died out, and if it was effected for its medicinal qualities. I thought that maybe we'd find someone here who would know, but I encouraged them to post it on the Biology SE as they probably would get far better answers there for their world.

Thales Pereira

@NexTerren Yep. That's the correct path, indeed, now that I see your reasoning.

@NexTerren You made me change my mind!

Thank you!

I learned a new way to tackle stuff on WB.SE. That's good

Nex Terren

16:12

Well thank you for talking about it! That was the first debate I've had in a long while that was... pleasant.

Thales Pereira

xD

Things are usually better when people are not trying to kill each other

(I don't forgave you yet, GoT.)

Also, sorry for my broken english - not my main language, and it goes out even more broken when I try to type too fast

TrEs-2b

Ahoy! I am back, what are we talking about

Thales Pereira

We just finished a reasonable and civil conversation about topicness of real-life stuff

Nex Terren

@TrEs-2b What Thales said.

TrEs-2b

Thales sounds like an ancient Greek city

Nex Terren

16:15

@ThalesPereira And honestly I wouldn't have known you weren't a native speaker if you wouldn't have said. Your English is perfectly fine.

Thales Pereira

Well, time to go back to work

thanks for your time, Nex

See you around WB

xD

Nex Terren

@ThalesPereira Thank you! Take care.

@TrEs-2b Try ancient Greek philosopher.

@TrEs-2b And when's the first podcast?! You've been slacking over the last 18 hours!

TrEs-2b

@NexTerren well considering we cannot use youtube, it is kind of confusing on what we will do

Nex Terren

Soundcloud?

It's basically Youtube for audio files.

Unless we do want video for faces.

ArtOfCode

@TrEs-2b why can we not use YouTube?

James

16:17

@DaaaahWhoosh The cookies are a lie.

Nex Terren

@ArtOfCode Supposedly that violates copyright since we don't own worldbuilding.stackexchange.com?

TrEs-2b

@ArtOfCode apparently SE does not like the idea of a community run youtube

@ArtOfCode what @James said

DaaaahWhoosh

@James you probably don't even like cookies

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren no, we're allowed. As long as we don't imply any official association, SE can't prevent us doing that

Nex Terren

Oh wow. SE actually posted something about this situation? I figured it was a generic policy for Youtube.

Wait, if SE can't stop us and YouTube doesn't care... why... don't we?

If nothing else we're a "World Buidling channel, formed by members of WorldBuilding.StackExchange.com" instead of "World Building Stack Exchange channel."

TrEs-2b

16:19

@NexTerren They channel was deleted for copyright violation; like I said, someone, somewhere cares

@NexTerren that might work

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren yeah, the latter is a no-no, it implies association

Nex Terren

@TrEs-2b Did not know about the deletion.

James

@DaaaahWhoosh Blasphemy.

ArtOfCode

Read our blog's tagline, that's a good way to put it

Nex Terren

So let's just do a generic channel about World Building. We're an external resource so the blog can mention us, as they would any other resource.

TrEs-2b

16:21

IMO I think a podcast on its own right could be a fun community project

Nex Terren

Just the blog won't say "Here's our channel!" but "The channel ____ posted another useful video. Click here to check it out!" (If the mods want to have that on the blog at all, not my call)

ArtOfCode

> Worldbuilding Stack Exchange's community-run YouTube channel

@NexTerren the blog can say it's our channel because they're both community projects

Monica Cellio

@TrEs-2b @ArtOfCode help.medium.com/hc/en-us/sections/203597827-Embedding

Nex Terren

@ArtOfCode That seems like it might be copyright again?

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren that's what SE suggested we use for the blog

Nex Terren

16:22

@ArtOfCode ORLY? Well then ignore my well-meaning warning.

...Wow, ORLY gives me flashbacks to my early days on the Internet. How old is that meme?

TrEs-2b

The blog does support video, so why not do it there

ArtOfCode

I'll just be copyright advisor for this project, shall I? :)

James

@ArtOfCode Couldn't hurt

ArtOfCode

@TrEs-2b not quite - the blog supports embedding a video from another source, like YouTube.

Nex Terren

@TrEs-2b Externally hosted video. So it'd still have to be on Youtube or another major site.

Monica Cellio

16:23

@TrEs-2b did you receive some communication from SE about that?

AndyD273

The copyright violation was probably for using the stackexchange part, since that is their thing.

TrEs-2b

@MonicaCellio No, it was just an assumption; I cannot think of who else would care

Nex Terren

It might even be an automatic deal. YouTube has a BUNCH of automatic copyright stuff, including searching videos for certain video clips (thus why some stuff is mirror imaged) and audio tracks.

AndyD273

But yeah, just calling it WorldBuilders or something without mentioning SE in any of the text should help, even if you mention it during the video itself

ArtOfCode

Once we get enough organisation to get this thing off the ground, we can always go and ask a CM to find out what they think.

TrEs-2b

16:25

@NexTerren yeah, youtube doesn't do it well

Nex Terren

And I guess just phrase it (as this is... well the truth) that we're some of the community of the site, and not actually SE employees or anything.

ArtOfCode

If they're anything like the SE I know, they'll support it all the way as long as we use the right wording.

Nex Terren

@TrEs-2b It doesn't. But text searching is stupid-easy, so it could be an automated script that detected it and shut it down.

Monica Cellio

@TrEs-2b did you get any notice from YouTube about the deletion? It might be them not SE, or it might be that SE made a blanket request to YT. I just can't imagine an SE response that quickly.

James

@ArtOfCode Yeah SE has been pretty accommodating for legit community ideas

Nex Terren

16:26

@MonicaCellio "Stack Exchange bureaucracy is the worst!" - Monica Cellio

AndyD273

One trick I heard was to use a free to use licensed music clip, and so youtube won't automatically take down the video if it finds other things that flips the take down trigger. Or something like that

TrEs-2b

@MonicaCellio I cannot access the email I used to create the channel; It requires a phone number, which I do not have

Nex Terren

Use mine. I'll send it to you via a private chat.

ArtOfCode

@TrEs-2b gmail? There should be a skip button

Monica Cellio

@NexTerren um, no. SE would consider the question and not pounce, I think.

Nex Terren

16:27

Wait.

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren drop it here if you like, I'll redact it when Tres has copied it

Nex Terren

@MonicaCellio That was 100% a joke from me.

TrEs-2b

@MonicaCellio that's what I thought

Nex Terren

I've already used my number for another channel's activation. Not sure if it'll let you use it again? But if it does, we can try.

AndyD273

@NexTerren I promise I won't copy it and sell it to Nigerians...

TrEs-2b

16:28

Here's an idea

ArtOfCode

@NexTerren should do. I think you can use it for 2 channels/month or something

Nex Terren

...I'm sending it in a private message to TrEs-2b...

TrEs-2b

Make a random channel; post the videos there, embed them to the blog

James

you shouldn't need a phone number for a google account.

AoC is right, there should be a skip button on the validation it is asking for.

they make it tiny and down low.

ArtOfCode

@James you do need one to verify a YT channel though

TrEs-2b

16:33

I should be removed from SE now right; youtube.com/channel/UCB-fq4eI--DHAwKJRIGhXqQ

Nex Terren

NNNNNGGGGG. THOSE GRAPHICS.

TrEs-2b

@NexTerren placeholders, we'll likely have something better eventually

Nex Terren

Twas a joke.

TrEs-2b

I haven't heard twas enough lately

Nex Terren

Do you mind making me a co-owner or something? I don't need to be long term, just would like to be as long as it's tied to my phone number. Whenever you change that you can demote me or whatever.

Monica Cellio

16:35

@NexTerren yeah, figured. But just in case...

Nex Terren

@MonicaCellio I make many cynical jokes. I try to make them over-the-top enough to be clear without the /s, but sometimes I fail in this effort.

TrEs-2b

Yeah good ol' Nex here is a star factory

Nex Terren

^ I like this man. Promote him immediately!

But I'm off to lunch. See you guys!

James

17:13

@MonicaCellio Hey since you're here. I was thinking of turning my 'what worlds are you building' meta post into a blog article. You're more eloquent than I. Have any general suggestions on how to format/deliver it?

Nex Terren

How to format it:

* All bold
* Center justified
* Comic sans

James

@NexTerren why not go all out and just use wingdings?

Nex Terren

@James Sometimes I am humbled by the genius this chat displays on a daily basis.

James

@NexTerren Chat is an amazing place. Its like a cross between MIT and a local improv comedy theatre.

4

TrEs-2b

Remember me!

Green

17:22

@James Except when it veers into the truly deranged a la yesterday's discussions about dumpsters and the things found in dumpsters.

Nex Terren

@Green I blame other people for that.

I was not in control of my facilities at that time.

James

@NexTerren Blame the instant gratification monkey.

Nex Terren

@James I saw that Ted talk. Good one.

James

Inside the mind of a master procrastinator | Tim Urban

►

Funny...and disturbingly accurate.

@Green Well you have to do the Aristocrats at the club occasionally...

Green

@James Fair enough.

...man. So many dark places when thinking about dumpsters.

James

17:29

Well obviously...I mean when you close the lid its going to be dark inside.

Nex Terren

Stop making me star what you say, James.

James

Why on earth would I do that?

Anyone know if you can run a query on total stars per user?

Im curious

ArtOfCode

@James Glarnak looks disapprovingly on your capers.

@James you can't, only a CM could do that

James

@ArtOfCode Do we know one of those?

ArtOfCode

We know a few, but they don't tend to just go running queries because curiosity :)

James

17:37

awww...

@ArtOfCode There is no (lowercase) god but Glarnak and James (that's me) is his prophet.

Monica Cellio

18:37

@James oh, sorry -- here now. :-) That sounds like a great idea! With 16 answers on that post now, I'd recommend against trying to cover it all in one blog post. I suggest writing a short intro (people are building real worlds for novels/games/etc and using the site to help), then pick, say, three to talk about in more depth (drawing liberally from the meta answers), and leave the option open to cover more in additional blog posts.

First in a series, in other words, but decent coverage of the ones you highlight and a link for more.

I think "subset with some depth" is better than "20 miles wide and an inch deep".

James

@MonicaCellio I was thinking it might be good to make a blog post of my answer a bit more...narrative. Does that make sense.

As in deliver it with more story flavor than I normally would on a post here

Monica Cellio

@James yes, agreed! Don't assume that blog readers have been following discussion on meta. :-)

I see I misunderstood your question, too. You didn't mean write a blog post about all the worlds; you meant write a blog post about your world. That'd be great! And maybe others will follow suit.

James

Oh yeah, no way I am delving into all those worlds!

Monica Cellio

"Tell us about your world" was one of the suggestions on the question about what kinds of blog posts people want to see.

James

Though ironically I think your advice could still be totally accurate and useful.

Monica Cellio

18:45

@James heh, yeah. I thought "wow, he's being really ambitious! Let me help him not take on the whole thing at once!".

James

I may break it into parts

Serban Tanasa

I'm starting a new job in a week, so my writing may need to take a back seat for a while

James

@MonicaCellio ...did you know I have a problem biting off to big of chunks at a time?

cause I totally do

Monica Cellio

@James I suggest you make sure the post stands alone; touch on all the important parts even if you break off some of those for more-detailed discussion later.

@SerbanTanasa congrats on the new job!

Serban Tanasa

@MonicaCellio thank you!

James

18:47

@MonicaCellio Good idea.

I may put it in the pre-published state on Medium and have people read it over first...I haven't written anything since that first article I did forever ago...I need to get back in the habit.

Monica Cellio

You can create a draft and then share a link to it in here (or the blog chat room, or wherever). And welcome back!

James

@MonicaCellio I've kinda felt bad about not contributing...well not bad bad but you know what I mean

DaaaahWhoosh

I'd feel bad about not contributing, but I've got a backlog of procrastination to feel bad about

James

@DaaaahWhoosh Yeah that sounds familiar.

did you see the video I posted earlier?

the ted talk?

DaaaahWhoosh

I'll get back to it eventually

James

19:01

its about procrastination. its excellent.

DaaaahWhoosh

TED talks usually are pretty enjoyable

James

So I just realized Randall Munroe did one...smart dude, not a particularly great public speaker. He's talking about his 'what-if's'

DaaaahWhoosh

if he's not incredibly thin then I'll be disappointed

Monica Cellio

@DaaaahWhoosh would more guilt help? :-)

James

@DaaaahWhoosh Heh.

DaaaahWhoosh

19:13

@MonicaCellio eh, I think I have a backlog of guilt too. I've been meaning to feel bad about stuff, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

2

maybe laziness is the key to inner peace...

3

James

@DaaaahWhoosh I think you're on to something but I don't really feel like thinking about it...

DaaaahWhoosh

yeah...

on a related note, eating lunch is such a bad idea. I'm so tired now.

Ghanima

@DaaaahWhoosh this room is filled with wise people

James

@Ghanima Wisdom and apathy may well be one in the same.

Ghanima

yes, I like that idea very much

Serban Tanasa

19:30

4

A: Non-lightspeed travel to not-too distant stars

Comets are rocket fuel! (But rockets are no good) The problem with rockets is the Tyranny of the Rocket Equation. It means there are diminishing returns on rockets, and that means you can only go so fast. One of the things stopping us from getting to Mars is that the Tyranny prevents us from tak...

So this answer here.\

Talks about a comet's speed at perihelion

being 0.2pct c

But, but

1) how do you catch up to it?

2) Speed at aphelion is 0

3) Oberth effect or no, you're not going at a free 0.2 pct of c in interstellar space

Or am i suffering from a brain freeze?

Someone tell me why i'm wrong

Ghanima

there is no free lunch if that is what you're asking

DaaaahWhoosh

maybe you catch it when it's not going very fast relative to you

then just hold on as it accelerates?

Serban Tanasa

@JDługosz am i right here? (See above)

DaaaahWhoosh

oh, wait, are they suggesting de-orbiting the whole comet?

Ghanima

speed at aphelion of 0 makes little sense either?

Serban Tanasa

19:36

using it as fuel (admittedly, they say it wouldn't work well, but the first part is what seems weird to me)

@Ghanima, well, the aphelion is the point where it stops moving away from the sun

what speed would it have there?

we're talking x from the sun

there will be some lateral movement

lateral movement isn't helping escape the sun's well

Ghanima

as an example: So plugging in the numbers, the speed at perihelion is 30,300 m/s and at aphelion it's 29,300 m/s.

curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/41-our-solar-system/…

Serban Tanasa

EArth?

Ghanima

if it is orbiting sun it'll not stop at aphelion

Serban Tanasa

Earth is not a grazer

has nearly circular orbit

Ghanima

oh sorry

Serban Tanasa

19:39

these are highly, highly eccentric

Ghanima

your right, i searched for comet though

Serban Tanasa

almost like a line

Ghanima

yes they are eccentric, still it's orbiting

it does not stop

Serban Tanasa

i said near 0

no i did not

Ghanima

i mean, if it were to stop it would fall back to sun in a straight line, would it not?

Serban Tanasa

19:40

I said basically 0 in the comment

Ghanima

it has a radial velocity or it would not be orbiting

I don't see if it does matter that it is a sungracer or not

if it's bound to a solar orbit you gain nothing attaching yourself to it

Serban Tanasa

well, the idea was to fire thrusters during the sungraze

Ghanima

if you want to leave the solar system you need a bus that is bound to leave and that means that it needs to come in hot from extrasolar space, issue might be that it might be to fast to catch up with that one in the first place

Serban Tanasa

oberth effect

monodokimes

Oh hey the sungrazer question people are here!

Ghanima

19:44

@SerbanTanasa so go to aphelion (cos it's slowest there, but way out in the first place), attach yourself, and then wait for perihelion to do the stunt?

monodokimes

Getting to aphelion would take an impossibly long time.

Serban Tanasa

An Average sungrazer has an eccentricity of > 0.9999

aphelion is at >100 AU out

Ghanima

so where do they want to rendevouz with it?

Serban Tanasa

going by kepler law, equal areas of the orbit in equal time

ask @monodokimes, they're here

DaaaahWhoosh

we've already rendezvous'ed with a comet in real life, right? When did we do it then?

monodokimes

19:49

I skipped over the rendezvous part as I figured that wasn't all that relevant to the question, I just wanted to show that conventional methods of rocketry (chemical fuels) are simply not workable for interstellar travel.

Rosetta's comet (forgotten the name, something 67P) wasn't a sungrazer. And it took a decade to get into position.

Ghanima

@DaaaahWhoosh actually we did and you did not :-P

@monodokimes exactly, going there is a real pita

multiple gravity assists

monodokimes

Of course we wouldn't need all that if we could build spaceships with any sort of fuel efficiency.

JDługosz

@SerbanTanasa if you come up to it gentely at aphelion and ride it around, you'll go fast as it whips around the sun and wind up moving slow again when you return to aphelionv exactly as you started. No problem. No point.

Serban Tanasa

$v=\sqrt{\frac{GM}{a}(\frac{2a}{r}-1)}$, where a is semi-major axis and r is your distance from bottom of the gravity well.

JDługosz

The OP doesn’t understand orbits. Send him to KSP.

Serban Tanasa

19:55

darn, latex doesn't work on chat

point is, if semi-major axis is close to 2x Aphelion distance, v at aphelion is very close to 0

Nex Terren

85 chat messages since I last checked.

Is it all about space stuff?

JDługosz

Now do recall that fuel is more valiable at peri. So you dock a power source and nozzle, and use the comet mass for reaction, firing with all your might at peri, to raise the api to parabolic.

Nex Terren

...Question. How could I get a +count divisible by 5, but not 10, on an answer to a question? Downvotes are... -2 each, right?

Serban Tanasa

@JDługosz, which is great

but you still basically just only make it out of the well

JDługosz

But that’s not his question. He saw it travelling fast and one point and thinks of it like a car, not realizing potential o kenetic is concerved.

Serban Tanasa

19:59

relative to the sun, you won't be moving at perihelion speeds by the time you reach a distance equivalent to thr previous aphelion

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