The Factory Floor

@Gryphon well, if you ever want to move into a more civilized area come to Switzerland. After 10-12 hours on a bicycle you've probably reached the borders of the country

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Yeah, I've got a friend in Spain. He was a bit flabbergasted by the fact that we have a provincial park in northern Ontario that's about 3 times the size of Spain.

Canada is big.

As in, like 98% of the land area of Europe.

dot_Sp0T

Don't you speak French in Canada?

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T It is one of our official languages, but it's primarily spoken in Quebec and parts of New Brunswick. In Ontario, we have to take a semester of it in High School, as well as all through Elementary School, but what you learn if you don't do more voluntarily will get you through a sentence or two at best, and that very slowly.

It's honestly quicker for me to use Google Translate for anything that isn't extremely simple.

dot_Sp0T

7hrs

Gryphon

12:25 PM

The time of doom approaches! The heavens are opened, and four horsemen ride out to destroy those who have done evil.

dot_Sp0T

dadadaaaaaaaaaa

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T I already did that.

On a completely unrelated note to anything we've been talking about, it really irks me when I see a question that's absolutely terrible, closed for obvious reasons, no research effort, bad formatting, and then see it has 2-3 upvotes.

dot_Sp0T

@Gryphon please have another look at my questionnaire

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Do you mean the part about grace periods?

Or the sandbox bits?

dot_Sp0T

@Gryphon I just think we share some views and you should toatally vote for me and stuff

Gryphon

12:40 PM

@dot_Sp0T 1) I've already voted, and 2) you're my second choice.

dot_Sp0T

that's not good enough

:D

Gryphon

But, back to my original annoyance, look at this question with 2 upvotes. I mean, the user gained rep from this.

dot_Sp0T

yes, the system is designed to make it easy to gain reputation and hard to lose it

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T I'm really wondering who actually upvoted that. I mean, it's not just random people, you need a bit of rep.

dot_Sp0T

you don't need that much to upvote

Gryphon

12:45 PM

@dot_Sp0T True, but it isn't just random accountless people or spoof accounts. Even if you don't need much rep, two people still thought that was a good question.

dot_Sp0T

not necessarily

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Or just upvoted because reasons?

dot_Sp0T

on here I would rather read this as 'two people liked the question / premise'

I am not sure if/how many people know about the fact that you can actually star a question to remember it for example

Gryphon

I guess... but I still consider myself annoyed.

To change the topic once again, our Save the Robot answer on Mother Meta is now the second highest one for a single site (after Super User, which probably actually have a bigger grievance than we do, and have way more traffic).

So that's good, maybe we'll get some attention.

dot_Sp0T

probably not

Gryphon

12:50 PM

I did say maybe.

And if all else fails, we have threats

dot_Sp0T

yeah, they are the worst

threats don't get you anything but people that don't like you

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Admittedly true.

I honestly don't get why they're even making these changes.

dot_Sp0T

1:15 PM

@Gryphon because someone on top wanted their name on a project

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Not an improbable theory.

dot_Sp0T

I think

Gryphon

Though it would have been nice if they'd, you know, made it a project we actually wanted.

dot_Sp0T

you mean swag?

Gryphon

1:32 PM

@dot_Sp0T That'd be nice, but there are other things that would be great. Like your "start all Qs on hold for a bit" proposal.

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T I don't think I've revisited my stared questions even once ever.

Hosch250

@Gryphon That would even be great for over-populated tags on SO. There are very few questions about, say, C#, that aren't answered

Secespitus

@AndyD273 It's nice to go through the list every once in a while to be reminded of what you perceive to be the greatest gems on the site.

AndyD273

@Secespitus It probably is, I just have never done it

Gryphon

Can you see someone else's starred questions?

Hosch250

1:34 PM

@Gryphon Yes.

Secespitus

@Gryphon Yes, just go to anyone's profile and click on the favorites tab

AndyD273

@Gryphon The problem with this is that they put a greater importance on getting answers to users quickly than they do on keeping the bad ones out.

Gryphon

@AndyD273 It'd be nice on some of the creative sites, though. Certainly better than the changes they're working on now.

AndyD273

@Gryphon I'm not disagreeing with you, just telling you what was told me when I proposed a solution like that a long time ago

Gryphon

@AndyD273 Do you know if it has ever been proposed on Mother Meta?

AndyD273

1:37 PM

Not that people shouldn't keep bringing it up...

@Gryphon I'm trying to remember if I was given a link to some place that they talked about it, or if I was just told by Monica. It was a long time ago.

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 u oughta

@Secespitus if you use it like that, I mostly star questions that could be useful when I finally get around to continue working on one setting idea or another; so I don't accidentally write a duplicate question

@AndyD273 it's impressive, though flawed when applying to humans - humans have the concept of language and interaction, they could explain each other why something is bad

monkeys can't

not in the way we can at least

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T Sure sure, if time/company culture allows it. It's more of a reminder that just because something didn't work in the past does not mean that it might not be ok now, so maybe old ideas should be dug up once in a while to see if maybe they fit better now.

Hosch250

1:54 PM

@AndyD273 Maybe they were just redneck monkeys.

Or maybe monkeys are dumber than dogs, because my dog can explain things to me.

AndyD273

@Hosch250 Well the monkeys did explain it to the newbies, by dragging them off the ladder and beating them. It might not even be a true story. Think of it as a parable used to explain complex ideas in a simple way. I posted it to illustrate that @dot_Sp0T should keep pursuing the banana, even though I was telling him that I was told it wasn't a good one, because maybe things are different now.

Hosch250

If the person at the top says it isn't good, half the time they know what they are talking about, and half the time they just don't want you to have it. Half of the second half they want it for themselves.

Secespitus

370

Q: Was the experiment with five monkeys, a ladder, a banana and a water spray conducted?

I've found the following picture online. It is about the moral/paradigm behind consistent behavior. Click to enlarge. The image text says A group of scientists placed 5 monkeys in a cage and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on the top. Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the...

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 your dog can explain stuff to you because you have shared experiences that allow it to draw upon imagery and memory to form a concept

AndyD273

@Hosch250 But conditions change over time. We work with a lot of paper in my office, and the process for handling it is kind of dumb. I wrote a concept program that would cut down on a lot of the paper and proposed it to the boss. He said that it was interesting, but too slow compared to handling stuff on paper, and wouldn't save the company money. Now in a few years the technology and software will have improved, so I'm always keeping the idea in the back of my mind.

dot_Sp0T

2:07 PM

the monkeys could not possibly communicate the notion of a banana being on top of the ladder because they did not have any shared experience to draw upon for explanation

until one day you will attack him in the dark?

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T are you replying to me?

If so, no. Until one day I come across something new that would make my proposal faster than shuffling paper. Then we can stop murdering so many trees.

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 I thought so, stupid client

@AndyD273 I really enjoy printing things on paper and then marking things on it, and making notes, and carrying it in a binder

AndyD273

Basically data PDFs get generated and then printed out. One PDF might contain details for dozens (or hundreds) of jobs. It gets sorted, divided, and processed. And when it is done it gets scanned back into the computer to go in the archive. I've streamlined as many of those steps as I could so far. My idea was to do the sorting, dividing, and processing on the computer itself and skip the whole printing/rescanning phase.

@dot_Sp0T Oh, I don't know if this ever went anywhere, but it kind of goes along with your question/idea:

16

Q: Triage and Help & Improvement review queues at sites other than Stack Overflow?

TL;DR Does it make sense to establish (or at least test) new review queues at sites other than Stack Overflow? As far a I understand, answer to above question is not quite straightforward: This is all pretty much tailored to the needs of Stack Overflow... Not that this precludes using it els...

discussion review triage help-improvement

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 maybe the paper archives are a legal req?

i.e. think of one of my favourite scifi dystopian subjects: Only things printed on physical paper are undeniably true, records are kept in books in huge vaults, because data that is only on computers can be altered without any evidence of it

AndyD273

2:23 PM

@dot_Sp0T No paper archives. It gets scanned into an archive folder on the computer (which meets the legal requirement), and then the paper gets put through an industrial shredder and recycled.

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 machine learning for new questions, would be great - though at least on here it would have to be trained by moderators mostly, or at least have a very high rep requirement; as gaining rep on here is quite easy by blasting answers to bad qs...

@AndyD273 very intredasting

AndyD273

2:39 PM

@dot_Sp0T Yeah, trying to keep paper copies for 3 years worth of work would be crazy pants. Also probably a fire hazard.

We used to have a very large room full of filing cabinets for a while until we got the scanning process up and running. We didn't have as many clients back then either.

@dot_Sp0T It could cut down on those people who keep making new accounts to avoid question bans that stresses @Aify out so much.

James

Anyone freaking out about the election yet?

AndyD273

Hey @James

Not yet. What time does voting finish?

Hosch250

@James Dot Spot is.

James

A few hours left is all.

AndyD273

Quick, someone find some babies for me to kiss!

3

Hosch250

2:51 PM

@AndyD273 Vampire-kiss?

AndyD273

ew no

James

@AndyD273 You just got starred.

@Hosch250 Blood is like wine, it has to be properly aged to taste good.

2

Hosch250

@James Oh yeah?

Now I'm thinking of the XKCD about drinking blood.

James

All that cholesterol would add much more complexity and flavor to it.

babies are all...healthy and stuff.

AndyD273

Better that one than my alternative thought... "time to go out on the road, kissing hands and shaking babies..."

@James like the broccoli of the vampire world?

Hosch250

2:54 PM

@AndyD273 I love broccoli.

James

@AndyD273 More like kale really.

Hosch250

Kale is even better!

AndyD273

@James Ah, the devils lettuce.

Hosch250

As long as it's not cooked.

Gryphon

@James Wait, you put it in mashed potatoes?

Hosch250

2:55 PM

Kale and cabbage. Yummmm.

James

@Hosch250 maybe if there is bacon cooked into it...

Hosch250

Nope.

Raw kale on cheese sandwiches.

Adds a nice bite to the taste.

AndyD273

My coworker likes it oiled, salted, and dried. Kind of makes these kale chips

Gryphon

@AndyD273 I've had those. They're not bad.

AndyD273

They aren't too bad, but kind of light. Don't have the satisfying crunch

Gryphon

2:59 PM

@AndyD273 True. They're not as good as potato chips. Speaking of potatoes, kale is really good in mashed potatoes.

Ash

3:25 PM

You have to be careful with Kale, it has a lot of oxalic acid, can give you kidney stones apparently.

FoxElemental

3:41 PM

OMG OMG OMG 4 hours

@Gryphon DO learn another language. For English speakers, Spanish is probably the easiest to learn.

Easy parts: Pronounced as written, simple accent marks, lots of cognates (words that sound nearly identical and have the same meaning as their English counterparts), simple sentence structure, recognizable verbs.

Hard parts: Conjugation (6 conjugations per verb, per tense), Direct Object Pronouns (Lo, la, los, las, me, te, etc.), and a slightly reorganized sentence structure.

AndyD273

@FoxElemental Hard parts: Stupid inanimate object genders. I want a gender neutral table dang it!

FoxElemental

oh, el/la? Easy

But you try DOPs

Ash

Why would anyone volunteer to try and learn another language?

FoxElemental

@Ash Gimme a min

1. Travel

2. Business (You know you can make extra this way, right? German on a resume, besides being impressive, can, e.g, make you an extra 4% of your salary.)

3. It's fun and cool

4. Doesn't take time, just dedication/motivation (just spend 20 min/day. In the car. Or in bed. Or cooking.)

AndyD273

Google demos real time language translation with new Pixel 2

►

FoxElemental

3:48 PM

5. Learning another language helps you know your native one better

6. It actually works your brain to "make you smarter." Not sure about that.

7. Prolongs memory

8. Duh

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 that such a biggie?

AndyD273

I will say that the "Pronounced as written" is attractive, working to teach a youngling to read. English has had too many people messing with it for too long. We need English 2.0. Probably call it American so as to not confuse it with English 1.0.

Hosch250

@AndyD273 The Brits are still on 0.9 :P

Or maybe the Americans are on 1.1.

FoxElemental

@AndyD273 It is, though, isn't it? Learn the proper pronunciation and then you know how to say everything.

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T I didn't say it bothered me.

FoxElemental

3:54 PM

none of this "gorgeous/psychologist/through/though/thought/" stuff

Hosch250

@FoxElemental I could spend 80 hr/day driving to/from work.

Ash

@FoxElemental I'll give you 2. in certain industries everything else I'll have to differ on.

FoxElemental

@Hosch250 Good practice, then

@Ash what's your job?

"English is tough, though through thorough thought, you can get it"

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 i mean are there so many of them?

Hosch250

Bough bow.

Ash

3:56 PM

@FoxElemental I answer phones for a living, all in-country so everyone I talk to speaks a reasonable standard of English.

Hosch250

Although I generally pronounce them like bough beau bow.

Also, row/row.

FoxElemental

your boat

Hosch250

FWIW, most of these words are trending towards archaic.

FoxElemental

(couldn't help myself)

Hosch250

You almost never see row (fight) or bough anymore.

FoxElemental

3:58 PM

Yes

Ash

@Hosch250 Unless you're an arborist of course.

Hosch250

Yeah.

dot_Sp0T

English 2.0: Imagine English, but we kept all the good parts and removed all the not good parts. Like verbs for negation, they are no here anyomore. Just use a positive and add not. Like 'This food-item is not good' or 'Have you seen Tim? The look not healthy'. English 2.0, now in your places where you buy stuff!

AndyD273

@Hosch250 An answer I wrote on how I would fix it:

10

A: Would a civilization simplify their languages (eg:English) in order to let their citizens learn more easily?

I don't know about removing words per se, but as someone who is trying to teach his kids to read, I'd start by simplifying the alphabet and spelling rules. For instance, get rid of the letter C, and just use the letter K or the letter S. I don't know how often I've had to klarify a word. "No, ce...

@dot_Sp0T Ah ha! I finally found it:

-9

Q: By default, place questions asked by new users 'on hold' and visualize them as 'drafts'

As a moderator at Psychology & Neuroscience for over 6 years (a site with particularly stringent requirements on 'how to ask'), I have formed a pretty good impression of the 'typical lifetime' of questions asked by new users. The original question almost always requires elaboration which is requ...

feature-request new-users close-reasons

FoxElemental

@AndyD273 +1, so funny

AndyD273

4:03 PM

-8

Q: For better quality: Block early answers

This is a feature request that addresses the problem (at least on Math.SE) that low-quality questions are often quick-shot answered while the closing votes are still piling up. This often makes several quality problems out of one, given that there has been so little time for composing an answer. ...

feature-request low-quality-posts

-12

Q: Protect newbie questions from abuse and SO from spam

There has to be a balance between the ability of newbies to ask questions of gurus and the problem of newbie accounts being used to spaminate SO. On one hand, we see that experienced users frequently ignore newcomers by looking at reputation and accept rate. If this happens often enough to a que...

feature-request stackoverflow new-users spam quality

-3

Q: Should questions by new users have to be approved before becoming generally visible?

Lately I've noticed that in some groups the quality of the questions have dropped significantly or are in general pretty low. A lot of these questions are closed, and the amount of closed questions are becoming rather annoying. Most of these questions have one thing in common; they are asked by n...

feature-request questions closed-questions

dot_Sp0T

and upvoted

it's a sort of joke

everything on this site is about peers, the reviewing process, the voting process, the closing/opening process.. but not approving new questions, why?

it makes no sense in the concept

Stackexchange is not an inclusive place as they claim, you can't do anything until you've asked a few well-received questions / answers. Yet it does not want to have mechanisms to allow new users starting off with definitely well-going questions

Also 3 hours until you won't see me again for a long time on here

Hosch250

Planning on rage-quitting?

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 nah, but I don't think I'll get the mod-spot and I should def spend more time learning for uni if I don't get the spot

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T One of those I linked to has a good explanation; There are a lot of question sites like Quora, Experts Exchange, etc, and closing questions before they even get asked would be a huge downside for new users, and as big as it is, SE still needs a steady stream of fresh blood in order to survive. We can't live in a walled garden. So we have the first time question queue, and the other queues to allow users to police bad questions. And what we have does work, even if it is not "efficient"

Hosch250

Good luck.

dot_Sp0T

4:19 PM

@AndyD273 honestly, putting questions on hold for the first 30 or so minutes after they have been asked wouldn't put any dent in the question statistics on any page on the network, probably not even SO itself. There are sites like gamedev where most questions don't even get answers for plenty time and they still have a huge influx

AndyD273

You know who was really efficient at eliminating "problems"? Thanos and the commies. Sometimes efficiency is not a good thing.

dot_Sp0T

Don't do that

just... don't

AndyD273

Also Thanos

Gryphon

Godwin's law strikes again!

dot_Sp0T

I'll be back in 3 hrs to discuss the votes

AndyD273

4:20 PM

@Gryphon Yes, but it was on purpose

dot_Sp0T

cheers

AndyD273

Though I regret not including Thanos in the original list

Gryphon

@AndyD273 You can edit it

AndyD273

Sure. Maybe that'll make @dot feel better

Gryphon

:( you were supposed to keep Hitler on the list. Now my "Godwin's Law" comment doesn't make sense.

AndyD273

4:22 PM

@Gryphon I didn't mention him though

Just his political party

Gryphon

95% the same thing.

At least from the perspective of the majority of the population.

AndyD273

Also, I really didn't want to upset @dot_Sp0T

Gryphon

Fair

AndyD273

Unless he was reacting to the commies part... Well, too late now.

Gryphon

The comment editing timeout really sucks.

I can see why it's in place, but it's still annoying.

AndyD273

4:28 PM

Yeah, especially in the story go round room. As a room owner it would be nice to have limited mod abilities to make edits in there.

Hosch250

And room owners should be able to grant write access to people with too low rep.

AndyD273

agreed

James

Wait. What list are we discussing?

Gryphon

@AndyD273 The list of bad guys in Andy's comment

The one I just linked back to.

AndyD273

@James The evils of efficiency for efficiencies sake, especially when applied to certain problems, and relating to the idea of preemptively putting new questions on hold in order to give them a chance to get feedback before exposing them to the unwashed masses who might post an answer to a bad question.

James

4:41 PM

@AndyD273 lol

Aify

@dot_Sp0T I'd voluntarily write and train the neural network required to analyze new questions. I think it'd be fun.

James

@Aify That'd be an interesting functionality to have until it gained sentience and used all of our ideas and destroyed the planet...and probably several other planets...sorry Venus.

Aify

Naw I'd probably just run it to recognize bad patterns

Gryphon

@Aify So, humanity...

Aify

I think i could get it trained to recognize decently researched questions, at least

Gryphon

4:43 PM

I mean, we pretty much are a bad pattern.

@Aify Please write and train this, then make a chatroom where it posts anything it thinks is bad, so we can all band together and close it (if it is bad, that is).

AndyD273

@Aify if(question.toLower.contains("what if")){burnWithFire();}

5

Hosch250

You may want to talk to Simon Forsberg on CR. He has a chatbot (Duga) that does this for comments.

Gryphon

@AndyD273 Make sure that it scans for all possible capitalizations (I suspect "What if") is probably more common than "what if").

Hosch250

Software Engineering trained her to recognize comments about them on SO.

AndyD273

@Gryphon Fixed

James

4:45 PM

And probably Mercury too, but noone cares about Mercury

Gryphon

@AndyD273 Better.

Secespitus

@Hosch250 IPS has one like that, too.

Hosch250

Cool.

Gryphon

Might want to make it recognize "whut if", as I suspect that would be depressingly common.

AndyD273

@Gryphon Only one result, not in that combination:

6

Q: Help with designing currency

Imagine Europe around 1810. Imagine Netherlands. Imagine that it is the colonial age. Imagine also that the colonies are mostly under open rebellion. Imagine that the region of Netherlands (imagine only) and the surrounding states already have the following technologies: 1) Telegraph (telephone...

economy alternate-worlds alternate-history currency

Gryphon

4:49 PM

I edited for grammar. There is no longer that terrible "whut".

Hosch250

@Gryphon Wait, weren't we just talking about optimizing the language to support that?

Gryphon

@Hosch250 Where?

Hosch250

1 hour ago, by AndyD273

I will say that the "Pronounced as written" is attractive, working to teach a youngling to read. English has had too many people messing with it for too long. We need English 2.0. Probably call it American so as to not confuse it with English 1.0.

Starting from there.

Gryphon

@Hosch250 Oh, that discussion. Unfortunately, we haven't succeeded in changing English yet, so I'll keep editing for grammar according to the current rules until the grammar revolution actually occurs.

AndyD273

5:04 PM

@Gryphon I fear it'll be like switching America over to Metric. Doesn't matter how good it is, there is a lot of momentum to overcome. For my part I use a tape measure with both metric and standard units, and just use whichever side makes the most sense for what I'm measuring.

Hosch250

I create a new system of measurement for each project I work on.

I specify one piece as the base unit, then use that as the sizes for other pieces :P

(Just kidding here, mostly. Sometimes works best when working with old stuff that has deformed.)

AndyD273

@Hosch250 The problem is partial units. I'm laying tile at home, and they are 50 cm long. If I need a piece 225 mm long, it's hard to do that when measuring in full tiles.

Hosch250

@AndyD273 That's when you cut the tile.

AndyD273

Measure twice, cut once

Hosch250

Measure once, cut twice :P

AndyD273

5:08 PM

Just put the tile on a meat slicer and take off 1/8 of an inch until it fits the space

Ash

@AndyD273 Especially when you have to consider grouting as well.

HDE 226868

5:47 PM

This is going to be quite the afternoon, meteorologically.

AndyD273

Gotta love those cold fronts

Ash

I could make all sorts of half smart comments about those temperatures but you're actually used to dealing in Fahrenheit so they wouldn't make a lot of sense.

AndyD273

had one of those come through yesterday with a t-storm... very nice

Fahrenheit, where zero actually means cold.

Ash

@AndyD273 Kelvin, when zero really means zero.

5

Hosch250

Yeah, you only need a light jacket until 10 F.

AndyD273

5:56 PM

@Ash touché

Hosch250

I go to church with a bunch of programmers.

Someone was talking about the weather once, and I asked if they were talking about Kelvin.

Ash

@AndyD273 O Celsius is plenty cold as far as I'm concerned I start shivering below 20C.

Hosch250

At least one of them got the joke. The others didn't get it.

Ash

@Hosch250 I bet that went down like a lead balloon.

Hosch250

@Ash Yeah, you need a light jacket under about 40-50 F, depending on wind.

Ash

5:58 PM

@Hosch250 Wow one of them got it, I'm impressed.

Hosch250

Yeah, another programmer of course.

We've got 3 programmers (including me), one early-retired finance person, one accountant, and not sure what the other few were.

Very techie church.

AndyD273

Though it does make the point of "why do we need celsius?" Fahrenheit is made for human comfort, with 0 being uncomfortably cold, and 100 being uncomfortably hot. And Kelvin is good for science, when actual numbers are important. The only thing celsius is good for is if you want to know if your tea is hot or solid.

Ash

@Hosch250 All I can every really remember about the Fahrenheit scale is that -40 is the same as -40 C and a body temperature over 108 should be lethal.

Hosch250

@AndyD273 Like, bubbling hot. Literally.

AndyD273

@Hosch250 Yeah, also known as boiling. Colder than that and why even bother?

For tea, not bath water

Hosch250

6:01 PM

@AndyD273 Well, I don't literally drink mine boiling. But pour it boiling, yes.

You must have a throat of brass.

AndyD273

For brewing. It's ok to let it steep for a minute

I like my coffee/tea right around 150F

Maybe 160F so by the time I'm to the bottom it's not cold

Hosch250

@AndyD273 Interestingly enough, Celsius was originally designed for scientific purposes. Before they had Kelvin.

Kelvin is literally Celsius offset by 273.xx degrees, or something.

AndyD273

@Hosch250 I know, and that's why it's based around water. When they were calibrating their thermometers that they had just blown out of glass and filled with mercury, they'd go out on a very cold quiet night, put the unmarked thermometer in water, and wait for it to start to freeze. As soon as they heard the first sound of the ice forming they'd etch the thermometer.

To get the upper range they'd put it in water and heat it, make a mark at the point where it boils. From there you just keep dividing the space between the two points in half until you have all the degrees.

Hosch250

@AndyD273 Not quite, that'd be base-2.

Gryphon

As opposed to Fahrenheit, which is based on the freezing and boiling points of alcohol. Which may say something about the priorities of the US.

2

AndyD273

6:10 PM

@Hosch250 I guess once you had the quarter marks you could start dividing by 5s

Hosch250

@Gryphon You don't drink raw alcohol :P

Not even an American can do that.

Gryphon

@Hosch250 Maybe in very small quantities...

Hosch250

Well, OK.

AndyD273

@Gryphon I think the french, germans, and lots of other european countries would like a word with you...

2

@Hosch250 you can do it... once.

Hosch250

Well, is it methanol?

AndyD273

6:12 PM

I have no idea. I don't drink

Gryphon

@Hosch250 Really strong moonshine can get up to 70-80%

Hosch250

@Gryphon That's not accurate enough for a thermometer, though.

Gryphon

Not that I have any experience with that.

@Hosch250 I know, but the Farenhiet scale is based on alcohol. Actually, how did they originally calibrate that?

Hosch250

Actually, Fahrenheit is, apparently, originally based on the temperature of the human body and the freezing point of water with 2^8 degrees between them.

AndyD273

@Gryphon Apparently it's complicated, and a little mysterious: livescience.com/39916-fahrenheit.html

Hosch250

6:17 PM

It was later adjusted to use the freezing/boiling points of water like Celsius.

In other words, Fahrenheit started sensibly, and got screwed by following Celsius's lead.

Gryphon

So essentially, the US is using a temperature scale invented by a guy whose idea of science is sticking a thermometer in his wife's armpit.

Hosch250

Does it matter?

AndyD273

Especially because water freezes/boils at different temperatures based on air pressure, purity, etc

So it's not a constant at all

Hosch250

FWIW, IMO, it's a criminal offense to limit the scales used, like the EU.

Gryphon

@Hosch250 Wow, that's a lot of acronyms. I mean, "FWIW, IMO" is kinda excessive.

Hosch250

6:22 PM

@Gryphon IMO, MO isn't W much.

AndyD273

At least the human body temperature is pretty constant from person to person (who are alive and not sick)

Hosch250

But you'll hear it anyway.

Gryphon

:( do we have to?

(JK)

AndyD273

"Well she's not sick any more."
"Oh, she's feeling better?"
"No, she died."

5

Gryphon

@AndyD273 That most certainly deserves a star.

AndyD273

6:24 PM

Heh. I just had to justify using "Persons who are alive and not sick" in my own head.

Gryphon

6:46 PM

1 hour to go...

Hosch250

70 minutes.

Plus whatever time it takes for them to go pick their brats up from school (delayed CR by about 30 minutes, but we knew because one of the mods wrote the program to calculate it).

Ash

@AndyD273 I had to read that twice before I didn't see "because people boil at different...", I've been looking at too much stuff about the unpretty effects of vacuum the last couple of days.

Hosch250

@Ash Did you see the one when the NASA guy accidentally got depressurized?

Ash

@Hosch250 No, that would have been unpleasant.

Hosch250

He survived without any permanent side effects, IIRC.

Ash

6:55 PM

@Hosch250 In theory you can survive a couple of minutes of hard vacuum before it does too much harm but it's extremely painful and unpleasant immediately.

Hosch250

@Ash Not quite.

yarchive.net/space/science/man_in_vacuum.html

Because the oxygen doesn't just stay in your blood--it leaks back out through lungs.

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