The Frying Pan

Jolenealaska

00:00

I looked at the wiki, it seems very analogous to the Signal Corps in the U.S. Army.

The Royal Corps of Signals (often simply known as the Royal Signals - abbreviated to R SIGNALS) is one of the combat support arms of the British Army. Signals units are among the first into action, providing the battlefield communications and information systems essential to all operations. Colloquially referred to by some as "Siggies". Royal Signals units provide the full telecommunications infrastructure for the Army wherever they operate in the world. The Corps has its own engineers, logistics experts and systems operators to run radio and area networks in the field. It is responsible fo...

Signal Corps (United States Army)

The United States Army Signal Corps develops, tests, provides, and manages communications and information systems support for the command and control of combined arms forces. It was established in 1860, the brainchild of United States Army Major Albert J. Myer, and has had an important role from the American Civil War through to the current day. Over its history, it had the initial responsibility for a number of functions and new technologies that are currently managed by other organizations, including military intelligence, weather forecasting, and aviation. == Mission statement == Support for...

My official job title was Signal Corps.

Tom W

So yeah, thinking about it I suppose that was what he meant

Dunno. I wouldn't be a cultural fit for the Army and I've never been fit enough

Jolenealaska

I certainly would not have guessed that I would've been a cultural fit a year before I actually joined.

Tom W

I'm also too old for almost everything

Jolenealaska

I am now and always have been a bit of a nonconformist.

But, since I was a bit of an oddity in the Army, it's suited me :)

Tom W

UK just instituted a new unit

Joint Cyber Reserve. IT specialists for mitigating attacks on IT, basically. I considered it. I'm not qualified for that either

I also immediately disqualified myself by telling you that

Navy are the first ones to get their recruiting for it online

Jolenealaska

00:08

They must have civilians in the unit too.

Tom W

Reservists. They're the weekenders

Jolenealaska

The security clearance is a bitch though. The only reason I got the clearance I needed to work where I did was that I was too young to have gotten into any trouble yet.

All of them?

I find that hard to believe.

Tom W

What you're asking they probably don't publicise

Jolenealaska

I would think not.

Or they advertise where people like physics professors would see it.

Tom W

I'm SC. That's #3 of an undefined number of UK clearance levels that if I knew the number of, I wouldn't be able to tell you

The one above that is DV, where they interview your parents, spouse if you have one, friends and dog. Your interview goes into the depth of asking you exactly what sort of pornography you're specifically into and if you have any kinks, what they are and who you share them with

Wow, OK

Jolenealaska

00:19

704th Military Intelligence Brigade

The 704th Military Intelligence Brigade, a subordinate unit of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, conducts synchronized full-spectrum signals intelligence, computer network and information assurance operations directly and through the National Security Agency to satisfy national, joint, combined and Army information superiority requirements. Headquarters and Headquarters Company 741st Military Intelligence Battalion 742nd Military Intelligence Battalion (NW) 743rd Military Intelligence Battalion United States Army Technical Support Activity (USATSA) == 741st MI Battalion == This...

Blast from the past :)

742nd Military Intelligence Battalion

Tom W

@Jolenealaska The blurb for the Intelligence Corps says "SO2 selection". I was personally told by an SO2 that in the Army that means Major. I'm not sure what they're saying there. Being able to immediately enter as a Major seems nuts

Publicly available

U.S. seems more on the ball on establishing units for this work

Jolenealaska

If I remember right, and of course it may have changed in the meantime, NSA is about half civilian.

Tom W

U.S. also seems to be really good at establishing a visual identity for many many units. As obscure as that is, it's a cool shoulder patch

Jolenealaska

It is a very cool shoulder patch! :)

Tom W

USN squadron insignia are frickin awesome

it's tri-service

Jolenealaska

00:27

List of United States Navy aircraft squadrons

This is a list of United States Navy aircraft squadrons. Deactivated or disestablished squadrons are listed in the List of Inactive United States Navy aircraft squadrons. Navy aircraft squadrons are typically composed of several aircraft (from as few as two to as many as several dozen), the officers who fly them and the men and women that maintain them. Most squadrons also have a number of other administrative support personnel. Some of the activities listed are not technically "squadrons", but they all operate U.S. Navy aircraft in some capacity. Squadrons and their history are listed in t...

Tom W

mind-boggling number of them

Jolenealaska

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮ upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/…

Tom W

VFA-136, fly the EA-18G Growler.

Jolenealaska

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/…

Tom W

Calling it the 'Growler' was cool, I like it

Jolenealaska

00:36

The other day I called some bureaucracy about something stupid and ended up needing his email address. So the guy said the email address in using the NATO alphabet.

it made me smile

Tom W

What is weird is that I've never had anything dictated to me in nato. I don't know it, but I'd expect it given my line of work

Jolenealaska

it's super easy to learn, and it really does make it easier to spell out things like email addresses.

Tom W

Oh. I thought it was completely different to 'the' phonetic alphabet

Jolenealaska

nah... phonetic is even a misnomer, really.

Tom W

oh yeah, I do that all the time. It's also amusing when people forget letters

My understanding is that the words are chosen to be easy to pronounce for everyone in a nato country and sound the same in every accent

Jolenealaska

00:41

I'll buy that. If I remember right India used to be Indigo.

Lima could certainly be pronounced more than one way, but I don't see how it could cause miscommunication.

Tom W

Exactly, it can't be interpreted as any of the others

UK postcodes are exceptionally good candidates for nato

Jolenealaska

for example?

Tom W

There are about seven valid formats, but the most common is [A-Z][A-Z][1-9][1-9] [A-Z][1-9][1-9]

Jolenealaska

Yep, that would call for please use the NATO alphabet for the love of all that is good!

There is a child in the building behind me screaming to beat the band. That kid is pissed off!

I think if I was the parent I would just have to step out of the house.

That's the kind of crying that will eventually cause the kid to pass out, and everyone will be so happy.

Tom W

@Jolenealaska yep, a misinterpreted letter can be either invalid or send your mail to the other end of town depending on where in the sequence it is

Jolenealaska

00:53

Did you see the picture of the package I ordered from the UK?

Tom W

I don't think so

hur hur

Jolenealaska

blu178.afx.ms/att/…

Tom W

'missent to australia' WHY?

Jolenealaska

Alaska and Australia both start with A?

Tom W

fark.com has a running joke of intentionally confusing Australia and Austria in headlines

But that clearly does not apply here

Jolenealaska

01:02

The story is even funnier knowing what was inside the package.

Tom W

marmite?!

Jolenealaska

pot seeds

Tom W

wombats?

lol, oh.

Those are probably illegal to send from here, or?

Jolenealaska

actually, there is a loophole.

The businesses (and there are several such businesses in the UK) just have to say that the seeds are collectors items, certainly not intended to plant.

They are not responsible for anybody breaking the law by using the seeds in a manner obviously not intended by the seller.

Tom W

I did have a pound bag of hempseed sold as fish bait. Probably kicking around my parents garage somewhere. They will indeed grow into cannabis plants, presuma#bly with no psychoactive content

but who can tell

Jolenealaska

01:06

herbiesheadshop.com/barneys-farm-seeds

Tom W

well that is fairly blatant

Jolenealaska

A lot of hemp seeds sold for things like bird feed are sterilized (by heat maybe?)

Tom W

yeah, more than likely

Jolenealaska

I got into a rather funny email conversation with the guy who runs that store (Herbie's Head Shop)

Jolene
4/30/15
To: Herbies Head Shop
"official involvement"... Is that like "imperial entanglements"??

I hope whoever reads this is old enough to get that.

Hi Jolene

Yes, we are but rebel scum to the Empire!
That's fine, please let me know if there's no developments by next week and we'll take it from there.

May the force be with you

Herbie

Tom W

:)

Jolenealaska

01:14

He ended up refunding the money I had paid, and then the package showed up out of the blue.

Tom W

:)

Han shot first!

Jolenealaska

So Herbie said to call it a housewarming gift.

Tom W

well it ought to warm one's house

Jolenealaska

As soon as the seeds arrived, I learned I was about to move. So the seeds are in my refrigerator, they still haven't been planted.

I have a very sweet grow light that I bought from Amazon. It is out of a company in China.

When I ordered it, I expected free shipping. The page for the light says free shipping. When I tried to check out I saw a shipping fee of $150. I called Amazon who called the company who contacted me. They said that the free shipping only counts for the continental United States. To which I respond the way I always respond to that, "What continent do you think we're on?"

Tom W

muahah.

Almost everyone who says that I'm sure means 'contiguous'

But, say what you mean

Jolenealaska

01:21

Now they are saying $7 shipping.

amazon.com/gp/product/…

I haven't even opened the box.

I move the day after tomorrow!

finally

I have heard nothing but good things about this light. As soon as I do my first harvest, I am going to experiment with cooking with it. This kind of thing is right up my alley! Julia Child meets the mad stoner scientist.

Tom W

well I'm glad you're having fun

Jolenealaska

Qne of the big problems trying to sell edibles in states that have legalized, is that nobody is consistently testing the potency of the brownies or whatever.

Tom W

Yeah, that would be an issue

Jolenealaska

So I plan to make large quantity of very potent oil, and have a sample of that tested. Then I can use that oil and know exactly what I have.

Tom W

As a novice you might not want blow your head off, intense user potency

Jolenealaska

01:39

I will be able to estimate how potent the oil is by having manufactured it, I'm not going to be stupid about it and cause myself discomfort. But by then sending it to a lab and knowing how many milligrams of THC my oil has per ml, I can say that a product has 10mg (or whatever) of THC in a packaged serving.

Tom W

science!

Jolenealaska

It will cost about $100 to have a sample analyzed. That sample will represent perhaps 6 months of growing.

10mg per serving is pretty much standard, but very few companies are actually putting out products that are that potent.

"THC is released into the oil during the heating process, and the oils with a higher fat content absorb the most THC from the plant. Olive and coconut have higher fat content than canola." FFS, please don't write articles if you don't know what the hell you are talking about!

Hi @Arrowfar, I hope the current subject matter doesn't bother you too much.

We're probably about done with it anyway.

user116848

01:54

@Jolenealaska Hi. Not at all :)

user116848

I was just lurking.

Jolenealaska

I am a bit of an activist on the subject, so I may sometimes say more than I should.

I know it makes some people uncomfortable.

BESW

08:14

Tonight's dinner is onion, carrot, veggie dog, and walnuts stir-fried in a honey-ginger-tumeric pepper sauce, on brown rice, with steamed veggies.

ElendilTheTall

08:38

@jolenealaska reddit.com/r/television/comments/3fehc7/…

Someone on the TV subreddit just posted how he liked The Inner Light and the writer and one of the actors showed up to comment!

Jolenealaska

nice!

"You haven't lived until you've read this post in the original Klingon" :)

Captain Picard Best Speeches

►

I like the advice to the actor. Fix that wiki!

I miss that show!

Picard is one bad-ass SOB.

I was 20 when Encounter at Farpoint aired.

Jolenealaska

09:30

Can Cuttlefish camouflage in a living room? - Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature - BBC One

►

Jolenealaska

09:45

I feel caught up on a gazillion memes.

107 Futurama Facts YOU Should Know! - ToonedUp @CartoonHangover

►

I'm also convinced to watch at least a few episodes.

Faheem Mitha

12:36

Bad weekend. Some of our budgies got eaten by a rat. Or rats.

Hello everyone.

Jolenealaska

Pet budgies?

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Yes, pet budgies.

Jolenealaska

That's awful. I'm sorry.

Faheem Mitha

It seems there were gaps in the cage. Fixed now, we hope.

@Jolenealaska Yes, it's a bad thing. My mother is quite upset. It's her budgies.

Jolenealaska

How many does she have?

Faheem Mitha

12:39

I hate rats. Even when they're not eating budgies.

@Jolenealaska There were eight, including a newly born baby, I think. Now five.

This place is rat-infested. Vermin is the only thing that survives here.

Jolenealaska

As a vet tech I treated pet rats. I never saw the appeal.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Ugh. Yes, agreed. Are pet rats any better than the wild variety?

Jolenealaska

I do like gerbils though, and hamsters.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Never had those. I actually don't think I've ever seen either. At least, as an adult.

Jolenealaska

@FaheemMitha Most pet rats are like laboratory rats, a lot easier on the eyes than wild rats. Some people actually have rats as pets that are indistinguishable from wild rats.

Believe it or not, we actually administered chemotherapy to pet rats (same breed as sewer rats) because they had cancer. A particular couple gave us probably a tenth of our whole business treating their damn mice and rats.

They paid their bill once a month, it never failed to be in the thousands.

Gerbils are also known as Mongolian Desert Rats. I have raised dozens of them. My favorite pocket pet is the Guinea pig, AKA cavy.

Faheem Mitha

12:50

@Jolenealaska Wow.

@Jolenealaska Also wow.

@Jolenealaska Are they any more pleasant in personality than regular rats?

Jolenealaska

Guinea pigs can become so tame that it almost can be mistaken for affection. They're pretty neat, very vocal.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska So you don't think they have actual feelings, then? Like dogs?

Jolenealaska

Eh, they're rodents. If handled a lot they become tame, but so do regular rats. Guinea pigs are more intelligent, so they can seem affectionate - they are nowhere near dogs in that way.

I had a guinea pig once that was ticklish, and actually came to us to be handled. Most tame pocket pets just tolerated being handled, or can be trained to come to people for food.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska I'm not familiar with rodents. Is it that they just don't have the brain capacity, or is it a species personality thing?

I mean, people have pet snakes and spiders too. There's no accounting for tastes. I don't actually have a problem with snakes or spiders (I wouldn't class them as vermin) but I certainly wouldn't make a pet of either.

Jolenealaska

I think it's just brain capacity, they don't really have enough capacity for personality. Occasionally one will seem special (like my guinea pig, whose name was LD by the way)

Faheem Mitha

12:56

@Jolenealaska I see. Why LD?

Jolenealaska

Well, LD can stand for a lot of things. Usually, LD stood for little dude.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska oh

Jolenealaska

But "guinea pig" is a colloquialism for an experimental subject...

so it was a bit of a play on words too.

Faheem Mitha

I've only ever had one pet in my life. She was a little toy poodle. Very cute. Died in 1996.

Jolenealaska

Wow, I can't even count the number of pets I have had.

Faheem Mitha

12:59

But I wouldn't really call myself a dog person. More of a cat person. Though I've not had much acquaintance with cats. And I'm allergic to both dogs and cats anyway.

Jolenealaska

At one point my husband and I had nine dogs in a townhouse.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Taking care of pets is a responsibility.

@Jolenealaska Wow. Did the neighbors not have a problem? Never mind the owners?

Jolenealaska

and a cat, and gerbils, and at that time I raises a baby squirrel that I found dying in the street.

No, no neighbors complained.

Faheem Mitha

I once knew someone who had that number of dogs. He was homeless. Used to live with them in a van and stuff.

Maybe even more than 9. I'm not sure.

Jolenealaska

I ran a very tight ship when it came to dogs.

Faheem Mitha

13:01

@Jolenealaska You must be an amazing manager.

Jolenealaska

So, the neighborhood tolerated them.

Well I am a professional dog trainer, that's a very central part of who I am.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska I see. The main problems with dogs is noise. They like to make it. They're like Indians that way. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

@Jolenealaska Oh, I see. Sorry, it's hard to keep track with all the different things you do.

Jolenealaska

Dog training and veterinary technology were my careers.

Faheem Mitha

Dog barking can be a major problem. It wakes me up even when it is not very loud.

Jolenealaska

I've done other things, but not with any particular skill.

Faheem Mitha

13:04

@Jolenealaska But you said you also did army intelligence stuff.

Jolenealaska

I was only in the Army for just over three years.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska ok

Jolenealaska

One year of that was at NSA, one year was in Korea.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Why didn't you stay? Did you not like it? And was that unrelated to the veterinary thing?

Jolenealaska

My NSA time coincided with Desert Storm/Shield. When I joined the Army, we had been at relative peace since the Vietnam War.

I left the Army when I did because I was in love with a man who was not invited to reenlist. The Army was never intended to be a career, it was just something to do while I decided what to do with my life.

Faheem Mitha

13:08

@Jolenealaska I see. Did you find it a good experience, overall?

Jolenealaska

I went to dog training school (yes, that's a real thing) just out of the Army.

Faheem Mitha

ok

Jolenealaska

Yes, I got a lot out of my military time. Being at NSA was just cool; it was fun and I was surrounded by nerds.

I did a very similar thing in Korea, at what was basically the Korean version of NORAD.

Faheem Mitha

So you didn't consider making a career out of it?

Jolenealaska

So if nothing else, the memories make for good stories.

Faheem Mitha

13:12

I mean, it's not my thing at all, personally. But everyone is different.

Jolenealaska

Yes I considered making a career out of it, especially since the Army was offering me the moon to reenlist.

Among other things they would have paid for me to finish my degree while drawing an Army salary. I would then be committed to serving a certain period of time as an officer. That was an attractive offer.

Sometimes I like to imagine roads not taken. That road would have been an interesting trip.

I was just talking about that with @TomW. My unit at Fort Meade had a very cool shoulder patch :)

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Yes, I see. That sounds like an attractive offer. Of course, I don't know anything about the US military.

I think I'd be a terrible fit for the armed forces myself. All about doing what you are told.

My father's brother was a Pakistani general once upon a time. That's my closest connection to the armed forces. He actually has a WP page too.

Jolenealaska

There is room in the military for nonconformity, you just have to finesse a bit.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Hmm. That's contrary to my impression of it. I have visions of myself getting thirty lashes for insubordination. Or whatever they call it.

So it's not all "Full Metal Jacket" then?

Jolenealaska

Basic training is just mind games (have you seen Full Metal Jacket?) so it's pretty easy if you can see through the games. It's physically demanding, but it's pretty exhilarating too.

Faheem Mitha

13:25

@Jolenealaska Heh. Mind games? I thought they make you do calisthenics and yell at you a lot.

@Jolenealaska I saw a bit of FMJ with some friends many years ago. We agreed to turn it off. Unanimous vote.

Jolenealaska

The mind games are pretty transparent if you have two brain cells to rub together.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Oh. Does it involve being yelled at?

Jolenealaska

Yes, drill sergeants yell. That would be a big part of their job.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Fun.

What happens if you yell back? Thirty lashes?

Jolenealaska

Their whole gig is to try to break you down so they can build you up the way they want you. That works pretty well for typical recruits because typical recruits are pretty stupid. So if you are not stupid you tend to get corralled into more fun things like being a nerd at NSA.

Occasionally recruits will do things like shoot themselves or the drill sergeant on the firing range.

Faheem Mitha

13:30

@Jolenealaska Hmm. Interesting.

@Jolenealaska Wow.

Jolenealaska

But nobody yells back at a drill sergeant.

Faheem Mitha

Shoot themselves as in actually injure themselves, on purpose?

@Jolenealaska You'd need considerable lung capacity, probably.

And I'm not sure what "break you down" means here. You mean mentally?

I read that a big part of the armed forces is overcoming people's natural reluctance to kill. I don't know if that is true.

For one thing, I don't know if humans really have such a big problem with killing.

Jolenealaska

There was an obstacle course that we had to navigate while explosions were happening on either side of us while bullets flied over our heads. The whole thing was intended to scare us. It was actually pretty laughable. You could see the turrets that the tracer rounds were coming from.

The bullets were 10 feet over our heads. The "low crawling" and loud things were just to freak us out.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Sounds scary to me.

Well, bullets are still bullets.

Oh, the explosions and bullets were unrelated? And did everyone get freaked out?

Jolenealaska

We were safer on that obstacle course than crossing a street in the crosswalk.

Faheem Mitha

13:36

ok

Jolenealaska

Yes, some people freak out. Others (like me) find it all very theatrical and humorous.

One of the drill sergeants called me the toughest bitch he had ever trained. In context, that was a huge compliment.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Hah.

Jolenealaska

Overcoming a reluctance to kill is a part of combat training, not so much a part of basic training.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska I see.

Jolenealaska

So everybody in the military goes through basic training, then we branch off to whatever specialties for more training. I got some extra hand-to-hand and marksmanship training just because I was good at it. My particular job would only require those skills if bad things happened that thankfully never did.

I was never in harm's way.

Faheem Mitha

13:49

@Jolenealaska I see.

But presumably that can change if a big war starts.

Dinner time. Back in a bit.

Jolenealaska

Yes, that can change on a dime. When the first Iraq war started, I probably would have gone over except for the fact that I had already planned my wedding, and the First Sergeant liked me. If the war had lasted longer, I would almost certainly have gone over.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska I see.

Jolenealaska

15:00

@FaheemMitha Yeah, this is old, but: security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/16/…

and npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130857445

Jolenealaska

15:20

Hi guys

user116848

15:45

Hello!

user116848

@Jolenealaska I didn't know you were in the Army. That's kinda cool.

user116848

Hi @ElendilTheTall!

Jolenealaska

It was a long time ago for a short time. It's fun for a few stories though.

user116848

@Jolenealaska I see :)

Jolenealaska

@ElendilTheTall Whazzup?

Jolenealaska

17:00

@ElendilTheTall I am just now getting into Game of Thrones. The last scene I watched was the young daughter (Ayra) learning sword-fighting from the mysterious tutor. Hard to believe that I am enjoying that! :)

Faheem Mitha

17:29

@Jolenealaska Nasty. Can't they just leave?

Jolenealaska

No, they can't. That's called desertion - highly frowned upon.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska In any other job you can just walk away. So they force you to stay even if you don't want to be there?

People don't generally do good work if they don't want to be doing it in the first place. And I'd have thought the military would get enough people without having to force people.

Jolenealaska

Yes, soldiers commit to 8 years for their first enlistment, but the US military is 100% voluntary (we haven't had a draft since the Vietnam war). No one is "forced", but soldiers take an oath and sign a contract.

Faheem Mitha

@Jolenealaska Yes, I know the US military is voluntary. But there should still be room for saying I made a mistake and leaving, imo.

If only in extreme circumstances.

I can't think of any other career/job where you are forced to stay when you don't want to be there. I wonder how other militaries compare.

Jolenealaska

Well, in practice, soldiers totally unsuited find a way out.

Some kill themselves, but most get themselves kicked out.

Others get medically discharged (mental or physical illness)

Enlistment is a contract.

The penalty for violating the contract is made perfectly clear before the recruit signs the contract or takes the oath of enlistment (the last word of which is "God").

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Tom W

17:51

@Jolenealaska I was wondering about that one. Presumably it must be pretty difficult to make yourself the most useless waste of oxygen they've ever seen so they don't want your service.

Because that would seem the obvious way out for people who've changed their minds

Faheem Mitha

/me makes a mental note not to join the US military.

Actually, let's make that any military.

Jolenealaska

@TomW it's not hard at all, but it's the kind of thing that follows a person for life.

It's no different now than ever, to be a deserter is to be considered a coward and very possibly a traitor. It also shows a rather serious lack of judgment. Why the hell walk into the recruiters office to begin with?

They do a small amount of psychological testing before a recruit can sign, and as you say, they don't want wastes of oxygen.

Imagine joining the Army when I did. the US had been at relative peace for so long that I couldn't remember it ever being in the other way. So, most of my peers grew up the same way. All of a sudden, we were at war. A whole bunch of people got sent to the Middle East to fight a war that they didn't necessarily understand or support.

user116848

Sorry for popping in and out of the room again and again :-)

Jolenealaska

What if everybody that joined about the same time I did could just quit? The government spent $80,000 just to clear me to do my job. That's a hell of an investment for me to be able to just say, "you know what never mind, I think I'll just go back to Iowa now"

Tom W

@Jolenealaska yup, and there's no get-out. I can't imagine maintaining discipline is a trivial job in those times

Jolenealaska

18:03

@Arrowfar you are free to come and go as you wish!

user116848

Thanks :-)

Tom W

@Jolenealaska all very true; but there's only so far a democratic country can go in forcing people to comply with this or that without making it a criminal sanction

Even if they are service members, held to an extremely firmly-enforced contract

Jolenealaska

The penalty for desertion in the UK military is two years in prison.

Offences against military law in the United Kingdom

The main Offences against military law in the United Kingdom are set out in the Armed Forces Act 2006. The offences fall into two main categories, discipline offences and criminal conduct offences. A second distinction is between those offences that can be dealt with by a Commanding Officer in a summary hearing, and those that can only be heard by the Court Martial. == Discipline offences == Discipline offences are those offences that can only be committed by members of the armed forces or, in a few cases, by a civilian subject to service discipline. The table below lists the principal discipline...

The Armed Forces Act of 2006 sounds a lot like the Uniform Code of Military Justice (US military law).

Desertion as to completely avoid service in the UK is punishable by life in prison.

Tom W

Is deliberate flouting of disciplinary rules considered desertion?

Jolenealaska

Probably not, it would be hard to prove that desertion was the actual intent (I think)

If a soldier wants to quit that badly, as you say, the military doesn't want them anyway.

Tom W

18:16

I think some of my friends know a deserter. Took the Army's bursary, then decided that the three years he owed them sounded too much like hard work

Jolenealaska

Desertion, in the absence of mental illness (PTSD or such) is pretty rare I think, both the there and here.

Tom W

They're somewhat less strict about short commissions, and will generally just want their money back

That would have been the easy option. Bugging out to Thailand and staying there illegally was not the easy option.

Jolenealaska

That can be damn near impossible for a 19-year-old recruit for whom the military has spent $100,000 or more to train and clear.

Americans ran to Canada to escape the draft, but that was different.

Tom W

I mean university bursary; you sign at the start of your studies, they pay your fees, when you graduate you begin officer selection

Jolenealaska

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for idiots who sign on the dotted line without a clue.

Ah, that's called ROTC here.

Tom W

18:20

so in that case they're actually just paying money to get potential candidates into the officer pipeline. They reject a not-insignificant number of them straight away

Jolenealaska

Reserve Officer Training Corps

Yeah, I think ROTC candidates can basically just quit if they repay the government.

Tom W

There was the cadet force as well, I think it's different anyway. That sounded basically like military training lite, with no commitment

again a way of trying to get people into the pipeline

plus gun pull competitions, offroading competitions, orientation days on vehicles and crew-served weapons etc etc

looked pretty fun actually

Jolenealaska

the Air Force is particularly good at that, they can make it look pretty glamorous :)

Tom W

the Army's headline offer is being allowed to pull the trigger on one of these

/button, whatever

Jolenealaska

Arnold Schwarzenegger's Guide to Blowing Sh*t Up

►

Tom W

18:33

This is relevant to my interests :D

Jolenealaska

I actually enjoyed blowing shit up in basic training :)

We got to throw hand grenades and stuff like that. Boom!

That was actually probably the most dangerous thing we did in basic, they really did go boom.

Tom W

And those are the training versions, right? They do go bang, but the real thing has a lot more wallop

AFAIK

Jolenealaska

No, these were real hand grenades. My reference to "boom" was a small joke.

United States Army Basic Training

United States Army Basic Training (also known as Initial Entry Training or IET, informally known as Boot Camp) is the program of physical and mental training required in order for an individual to become a soldier in the United States Army, United States Army Reserve, or Army National Guard. It is carried out at several different Army posts around the United States. Basic Training is designed to be highly intense and challenging. The challenge comes as much from the difficulty of physical training as it does from the required quick psychological adjustment to an unfamiliar way of life. Basic Training...

it was a little different in my time, I was in the last old-style boot camp company at Fort Jackson (Tank Hill).

We got to make lots of things go boom.

I had the highest shooting range score in my company (M-16), so I got to make a few more things blowup. I liked that :-)

We even fired a real Claymore, but only once.

A recruit can be discharged from the Army before the conclusion of Basic Training. Discharges that occur before the completion of 180 days (approximately 6 months) of training are considered uncharacterized, which are neither honorable nor less than honorable.

An Entry Level Separation (ELS) can occur when a recruit demonstrates unsatisfactory performance and/or misconduct. A recruit can only be ELSed after at least 4 weeks of training and 2 counseling sessions, except under extreme circumstances, such as the recruit being deemed suicidal.[32]

Tom W

18:58

It must suck to not be fit enough, because it sounds as though they keep putting you back and making you do more PT until you are

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