Android Hell - 2022-04-25

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forest

21:50

I don't really care if Trump is back on or not. I don't think his ban is a good example of censorship.

Wipqozn

22:15

@forest One of the main concerns is that the platform is already rampant with hate speech, and Musk may rollback what little action Twitter has already taken on combating hate speech on their platform.

forest

@Wipqozn I'm of the belief that the solution to hate speech is free speech.

We're seeing that censorship is causing more and more people to identify with hateful individuals, and is giving them a reason to play the victim. It's also forcing them to congregate into echo chambers where their ideas get amplified.

Wipqozn

@forest Those people will look for any reason to play the victim. All giving them a platform does is allow their influence and ideas to spread.

forest

@Wipqozn They'll never lose a platform. All you can do is move them away to their own platform with mods who think like them.

Wipqozn

@forest Yeah, but they need to actually get people to that platform.

forest

And they do so quite successfully.

There's a reason why Stormfront has more people who are more hateful than Twitter.

Wipqozn

22:19

Milo Yiannopoulos has basically vanished from the public eye since he was banned from twitter, among other things. Deplatforming works.

forest

Milo vanished from the public eye because he was turned on by his own following.

Deplatforming only works in that you no longer see hateful people in front of you. It doesn't make them go away or make them any less hateful.

Wipqozn

@forest No, but it makes it harder for them to spread that hate.

forest

I disagree. It just means you can't see them spread it.

It doesn't mean they don't still spread it, and often spread it even faster and more viciously.

Deplatforming simply doesn't work the way people want it to. You're getting rid of the rotten apples in your fridge and putting them in a bag in the corner, then wondering why the room smells when your fridge is pristine.

Wipqozn

@forest Except keeping the rotten apple in the fridge results in your whole fridge going rotten.

When you allow hate to exist on your platform, eventually your platform is overrun by hate, because everyone else leaves.

forest

That's why you turn down the temperature.

Prevent it from getting rotten in the first place.

@Wipqozn That's not how it works.

Wipqozn

22:23

@forest I'm not even sure what this means in this context, given your other statements.

@forest That's...exactly how it works. This happens on reddit all the time.

forest

Reddit is not a hate site.

Sure, maybe individual small communities can be overrun, but I'm referring to entire platforms.

The other problem is that normalization of censorship will work against you in the long run, as the balance of power always changes.

Wipqozn

@forest I'm honestly not even sure how to respond to this. Hate is rampant on Reddit. Just look ate KotakuInAction or TheRedPill.

forest

Those are individual subreddits. You said people would leave the platform, leaving only hate left.

Wipqozn

@forest There are many countries and platforms which have sane hate speech laws which haven't decided into a "police state".

forest

But from what I can tell, nasty subreddits are not the only ones that exist, by far.

@Wipqozn That's arguable.

Wipqozn

22:26

@forest I mean, it's not.

IT's established Fact.

forest

Wipqozn

Canada has hate speech laws, for example.

It's certainly not a "police state".

forest

I'd suggest you ask a civil libertarian about whether or not Canada is a police state (spoiler: it kind of is. The RCMP is immensely corrupt, and their police are not much better than those in the US in terms of police brutality).

And then tell me that it's established fact. Or the ACLU (although it's fairly rare that they talk about Canada because they're primarily about the US). But if you don't want to, that's entirely on you.

Now, I'm not saying that their hate speech laws are the reason they're a police state.

Wipqozn

Okay, I can see I'm wasting my time here. I'm disengaging.

forest

My thoughts exactly. Take care.

(Just for posterity and to prevent anyone from jumping to conclusions: I do not support hate speech, nor do I wish to see Trump back on Twitter. I just believe free speech is necessary in the long run, and that is all. What the ACLU has been saying).

forest

22:49

I love that I can now edit posts after 2 minutes. :D

Makes it so easy to add links.

Cat of doom2

hello

forest

Hello.

Cat of doom2

how are you? @forest

forest

Pretty good. Reading cryptography papers and hoping to understand more than 50% of what I read. :P

Cat of doom2

@forest i feel that. retaining infomation when stressed is rather diffacult

forest

22:54

@Catofdoom2 I'm not stressed. I actually finished a pretty major project recently so I'm feeling pretty good.

But that doesn't make me any better at math lol

Cat of doom2

@forest well i'm stressed lol

forest

I'm sorry to hear that.

Cat of doom2

math can be diffacult i hate it recently lol

my spelling has gotten worse as well. rather annoying

@forest do you have an opion on metel gear rising revengence?

forest

@Catofdoom2 Is that a video game? I don't play modern games very often.

Cat of doom2

@forest it's actually a pretty old video game

forest

23:01

Oh. Huh, I've never played it.

Ah, it's from 2013. I consider any game post 2005 to be modern. :P

Cat of doom2

@forest not super old 2013

@forest we both googled it lmao

forest

lol yeah

Cat of doom2

@forest there is a reason why you chose the year 2005? just the change in consle gen

forest

Nah it's mostly arbitrary.

I just like older games.

I think they're harder and more enjoyable. And they often have better music.

Cat of doom2

@forest those are the main complmients of metel gear rising

amazing music and rather diffcult

forest

23:06

I like very difficult. :P

If I don't scream and barely hold myself back from smashing the screen from time to time, it's not hard enough.

Cat of doom2

havn't played it though so don't quote me on its praise

forest

Because then, when I finally beat it, I feel that much better about it.

Cat of doom2

@forest any other requests? like single player or anything

forest

I do prefer single player games. I particularly like danmaku (Japanese-style shoot-em-ups).

Cat of doom2

@forest kinda somewhat like fast paced space invaders?

forest

23:10

Exactly, and there are far more bullets (they're sometimes called "bullet curtains"), but in exchange you are able to move a lot faster yourself. Search "touhou lunatic mode" on YouTube to see what it's like. :P

(Although Touhou is not the only danmaku. CAVE makes some very good ones, too).

Cat of doom2

@forest you said "very often" so what morden games do you play

also what conslo if there is 1

forest

The more modern Touhou games. :P

Cat of doom2

lol

forest

I don't play on console.

Cat of doom2

@forest i googled it... why? why do you do that to yourself?

lol

forest

23:15

Because it's so fun. :D

You get so deep into the zone doing that.

It's a very rewarding experience.

Cat of doom2

@forest how about D&D? do you play D&D?

forest

I've played it before, but not in many years.

Cat of doom2

@forest 3rd edition...?

forest

I don't remember. When did 3e come out?

Cat of doom2

@forest 2003

june i believe

forest

23:19

Would have been around that time. I might have.

Cat of doom2

wait no

google lied to me

3rd came out in 2000 and 3.5 in 2003

but 3.5 was more of a revision of 3rd so take that how you'd like @forest

forest

Could have been either of those, or prior. It was so long ago.

And I might have been high when I played it lol

Cat of doom2

@forest lmao, that most defintly doesn't help

forest

yeah lol

Cat of doom2

@forest has to be in person

forest

23:24

It was in person.

I didn't even know you could play DnD remotely.

Cat of doom2

23:42

@forest yeah

severel websites to help with that roll20.net for example

@forest you should try it sometime

forest

I guess that website performs a fair dice roll so no one has to trust what you claim to have rolled?

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