Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)

Duga

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[Cardshifter/HTML-Client] 1 commit. 37 additions. 22 deletions.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 1 opened issue. 5 issue comments.

Stack Exchange

01:16

"If you copy and paste, you're doing it wrong. Every time you hit Ctrl+C, a kitten dies. No no no." #CleanCode http://codereview.stackexchange.com/a/315/41243

Tweeted by Rubberduck203 on July 29, 2015 at 1:49 AM

Stack Exchange

04:48

Confirmed: next release, Rubberduck has a 日本語 translation! Long live @github!

Tweeted by rubberduckvba on August 1, 2015 at 4:40 AM

skiwi

11:11

hey

I was wondering for our own Cardshifter mods, what direction do we want to go with the effects?

We can have them easy and easily readable, similar to HearthStone, it does close down the design space though

Or have them more like MtGo, which makes cards more difficult to understand, but also way more awesome

@Phrancis @others ping ^^

It would also be cool to make legendary minions, without them being really overpowered, but still cool, if that makes sense

Another thought is that when I was playign Yu-Gi-Oh I had limited resources (money, cards) and had to make the best of my deck, also wasn't checking best decks online... With HearthStone it's way different as you can realistically get any card you want

I'm interested how we should take on that problem

Say with YGO (and also Pokémon before that I guess, lol) if you would get a Legendary card it would be the only one you'd have and you could make your whole deck around it, because you were not going to buy another one for €50

I remember in YGO having a water deck solely because I had a bunch of rares that were good and it was the only meaningful thing I could make and would surprise opponents at times

Phrancis

14:08

Monking

@skiwi I like the idea of legendaries and such, and we do have an option to set a per-card limit of how many of it you can have in your deck... there could also be the option of a legendary being summoned from a pretty low probability

Say probability(0.10){onEndOfTurn{summon 1 of "A legendary card" to "you" zone "Hand"}}

But, as far as having "brick & mortar TCG" where legendaries are rare, in the sense that there are few of them or they are expensive... Do you have any idea how that could be translated to an online/virtual TCG?

There would be the possibility of doing something akin to HS' single player campaign, at some point in the future, and adding rewards for completing certain tasks

skiwi

We could make them quite rare (however I believe in HS they are also quite rare already)

The consideration, as usual, is the whales vs skilled players argument again

You don't want to make legendaries overpowered, but they should still be good

Players with loads of money (assuming you could buy cards) will always get loads of legendaries

Phrancis

What I'm mostly curious, is how we could translate "rarity" into the kind of game we're making

skiwi

Maybe let legendaries be stat-wise worse than other regular cards, but give them better effects?

Phrancis

The way we are set up right now though, there wouldn't be anything barring a player from having one of every legendary available

Have to run a quick errand, will read up when I get back though

skiwi

14:25

Maybe if we open up our design space we can also have more interesting decks than HS

I think it's something we should try to make a decision on rather sooner than later

Phrancis

I think perhaps you ought to open an issue about it with all the details/questions, so it's all in one place for everyone to see and pitch in ideas :)

skiwi

Perhaps... not feeling much like it right now though

Phrancis

14:42

OK please do this weekend, if you can

Have you had a look at the Hindu cardset by chance?

I've used a lot of random/probability effects in that. I just had the thought that perhaps we could have a Legendaries cardset, where the basic cards would be relatively inoffensive (e.g., a no attack card with pretty high defense or whatever) as summoners, and set probabilities for them to summon a legendary card while in play

So you could have, say, one of each of any of the summon cards you choose, but each one would be a gamble, as you may or may not get the resulting legendary

card("Summoner") { maxInDeck 1; health 6; attack 0; noAttack(); onEndOfTurn { withProbability(0.15) { summon 1 of "A Legendary" to "you" zone "Hand" } } }

Or zone "Battlefield"

skiwi

What about counters?

That after 6 turns it turns into a Legendary?

Or perhaps more awesome, minions that simply grow every turn

Perhaps you can make it conditional (only grow if a blue creature is on the field)

You could have permanent cards that upgrade cards at the end of turn (so they could upgrade twice)

Phrancis

Conditionals (ifs etc.) are not implemented yet, but I could see that

skiwi

Might be cool to experiment with that, say (something extreme) a card can have 8 stages

Maybe legendaries could have even more stages

So if you can manage to keep them alive, they can grow

Phrancis

Cards that grow is something that can be done, to an extent at least (stats, but not effects)

skiwi

Not effects?

Phrancis

14:53

card("Growing card") { health 1; attack 1; onStartOfTurn { change ATTACK, HEALTH by 1 on { thisCard() } }

skiwi

I more meant literally replacing the card with another one

The lame version would be: "Robot Mk I", "Robot Mk II", etc.... until "Robot Mk X"

Phrancis

Ah. That could also be done, although we would have to "chain" a bunch of cards

skiwi

but there could be cooler cardnames of course ;)

Phrancis

Right

skiwi

Though if we stay with robots the "Mark" version-system can actually make sense

Not sure how attack/health would transfer though

Say you have a 4/6 minion that currently has 2/2 and it gorws to a 6/8, does it then get +2/+2 to a 4/4?

Phrancis

14:56

card("Robot Mk I") { attack 1; health 1; /* some minor effect */ onStartOfTurn { summon 1 of "Robot Mk II" to "you" zone "Battlefield" } on StartOfTurn { set HEALTH to 0 on { thisCard() } }

^^ This is how we could "chain" cards

skiwi

Would be even cooler if we could add support in Groovy to literally upgrade a card (to not have to write so much code :D)

Phrancis

What do you mean by "upgrade"? (example?)

skiwi

Upgrade is the thing that happens every turn

Not sure how many games already use a similar system though

Phrancis

I'm not so worried about how much code it takes, but rather how easily it would read on cards themselves... which gives me an idea

skiwi

Interested to hear ^^

Duga

15:09

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Phrancis opened issue #333: Custom plain English effect description for cards

> There are possibilities to make really interesting effects right now, but in some cases the way the DSL is translated to plain English is clunky, or not very user-friendly.

Take for example a card such as this:

card("Robot Mk I") {
attack 1; health 1;
onStartOfTurn { summon 1 of "Robot Mk II" to "you" zone "Battlefield" }
oStartOfTurn { set HEALTH to 0 on { thisCard() }
/* and continue chaining until Robot Mk V etc. */
}

It would be much more

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Phrancis added label moddability to issue #333: Custom plain English effect description for cards

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] Phrancis added label groovy to issue #333: Custom plain English effect description for cards

Phrancis

@skiwi ^^

skiwi

Related idea... What about replacing thisCard() with self?

Your issue/idea seems to missing something though...

customDefinition "Upgrades from Mk I to Mk V on each new turn"

How do you define that one there? ^^

Phrancis

@skiwi I think thisCard() is less ambiguous. self could imply that it may be the player rather than the card

skiwi

But you're inside the card() definition ;)

Phrancis

No, we're inside the filters ;p

skiwi

15:15

It seems that thisCard() is a bit clunky

Phrancis

Right now we have damage 1 on { thisCard() } and damage 1 on "owner"

skiwi

Hm okay, then it could be a bit confusing yes

Phrancis

If we made it damage 1 on { self() } it could become a bit ambiguous, when it comes to plain English card definitions. Since most players aren't going to look at the code, they would have no way to know that those brackets are there

skiwi

Is it worth to think about a new mod that would include those upgradable cards?

Phrancis

^^ Yes, or, we could just try it in one of the existing mods. Seems Cyborg Chronicles would be a good fit for that

The plan English description would just read "Damage 1 on self"

Instead of "Damage 1 on this card" and "Damage 1 on owner"

skiwi

15:20

How much are the current mods locked down?

Phrancis

Not much at all

Cyborg Chronicles in fact I'd like to see new cards added, as there are not that many compared to Mythos

Compare about 25-30 to around 100

skiwi

Because apart from minions, we'd need to think about spells, mana, counterspells and more

Not sure what concept we could add to it

Phrancis

Well, CC has spells enabled, as well as Enchantments / Upgrades, but there are not very many

github.com/Cardshifter/Cardshifter/tree/mods/extra-resources/…

Plenty of room to grow ^ as you can see

skiwi

Enchantments... indeed, that's a good one

Permanent cards could also make stuff interesting

Permanent, as in, they can be destroyed by other cards, but not by attacking them

Phrancis

15:34

BB shortly, real life calls

Jay1148

15:46

@skiwi This is Phrancis, on Jay's PC

bazola

16:06

i think that one thing that could set cardshifter apart from the competition is to intentionally have all of the cards unlocked at the start so that any player can build any deck that they want. if we are going to have the game always be free, that could make sense

Jay1148

^^ Good thought

card("Upgrado Mk I") {
    creature "Mech"
    flavor "Upgrades itself on each new turn up to Mk V."
    attack 1
    health 3
    sickness 0
    manaCost 3
    scrap 1
    onStartOfTurn { summon 1 of "Upgrado Mk II" to "you" zone "Battlefield" }
    onStartOfTurn { set HEALTH to 0 on { thisCard() }
}
// tokens for Upgrado
card("Upgrado Mk II") {
    creature "Mech"
    flavor "Upgrades itself on each new turn up to Mk V."
    token()
    attack 2
    health 4
    sickness 0
    scrap 2
    onStartOfTurn { summon 1 of "Upgrado Mk III" to "you" zone "Battlefield" }

@skiwi ^^ thoughts? (didn't add any special card effect yet, but you get the idea)

(yes, the name is horrible, this is just for trying out)

Duga

16:24

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] jay1148 pushed commit 7e961234 to mods

Update mechs.groovy

Added self-upgrading card Upgrado Mk I through Mk 5

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build for commit 7e961234 on mods: The Travis CI build failed

BUILD FAILURE!

Jay1148

16:41

Shit

skiwi

@bazola I don't think I can agree on that, the deckbuilding and improving your deck over time part seems to be an integral concept in TCG's

If everyone is going to play the top decks then it isn't much fun

We don't per se need to rely on money as a blocker to achieving a full set though

Extreme concept: What about cards that "decay" over time?

One way would be that cards you receive are only available for a week

A totally other way would be that you can use them for 10 matches, perhaps only decrease the counter if the actual card ingame goes to the graveyard

bazola

but everyone is going to play the top decks anyway @skiwi

skiwi

@Jay1148 Would that actually work ingame already?

Jay1148

Maybe, that's what I'm trying to find out

skiwi

I do think the buffs/debuffs on the card should carry over

And if it's silenced (or equivalent), then of course you get no upgrade

bazola

16:44

there are still lots of decks i can't make in hearthstone because even though i have spent a bit of money i still don't have the legendaries and epics that would make those decks work

skiwi

@bazola When you think about MtG (or any other game more complex than HS) then I have the feeling that you are tryign to create a top deck with cards you have available, not from all possible cards

Though perhaps my view is distorted as I didn't participate in any tournaments when I was playing YGO

bazola

but thats just it, isn't it? even if you have limited cards you are still going to always play the best decks that you can

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] jay1148 pushed commit 2032116a to mods

Update mechs.groovy

Disabled special effects on Upgrado cards to narrow down the problem

bazola

but if we were charging money for the game obviously i wouldnt want to give all the cards away :)

Jay1148

I don't have a way to build locally ATM so I have to rely on Travis. Jay doesn't have an IDE or Gradle installed

skiwi

16:48

@bazola That's true, but that if you have all the cards then all players would be playing the same top decks over and over again, that's the bit that bugs me

bazola

if there are not dozens of equal strength top decks then you have failed to balance the cards well anyway

3

skiwi

The only way it could work out if are all cards would be perfectly balanced

bazola

i don't think you need anything close to perfection

Jay1148

Well, the good thing with the DSL we have is that it's really easy to balance cards on the fly

skiwi

Another thing you should consider is goals of people playing the game, if all cards are available then that goal isn't there anymore

bazola

16:51

that part is true

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build for commit 2032116a on mods: The Travis CI build failed

BUILD FAILURE!

bazola

i don't find myself needing to win gold to want to play hearthstone though, the fun for me is in making crazy deck ideas and winning games

Jay1148

I'm sure at some point later in development we will get to that point where there are incentives and such, but we're not quite there yet

bazola

so maybe a leaderboard is enough motivation for many players to want to keep playing?

Jay1148

^ Agreed

skiwi

16:52

Stuff like that should be interesting yes

Jay1148

Once we have a fairly attractive GUI (even if just the browser-based one) perhaps we can start thinking about actually having some user accounts, and such

@Duga Just missing some closing brackets, easy fix

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] jay1148 pushed commit cf2656ba to mods

Update mechs.groovy

Add missing closing brackets

bazola

ah, the wonderful world of shaders..

ERROR: 0:39: '/' does not operate on 'float' and 'int'

Jay1148

@Duga Be my friend please

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build for commit cf2656ba on mods: The Travis CI build passed

Jay1148

17:06

YAY

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] jay1148 pushed commit 2c113eb9 to mods

Update mechs.groovy

Enabled Upgrado effects again

Jay1148

This is the only one that I'm not completely sure will work... afterPlay { change SCRAP by 2 on "you" }

It should work, in theory

skiwi

Heh, the theory part is always cool

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build for commit 2c113eb9 on mods: The Travis CI build passed

Jay1148

Good!

bazola

17:29

ERROR: 0:42: '>' does not operate on 'float' and 'int' thanks a lot C!

now this is a weird shader

it just makes models below the middle of the screen have zero color, and above have maximum.. not what i intended :)

this one makes it look like the buildings are lit up by some kind of explosion

Jay1148

@bazola That's pretty neat, I'm sure you could do something looking a bit better if the contrast between light and shade wasn't so stark

bazola

also if i had some kind of clue what i was doing, rather than just trying random crap and seeing what happens :)

skiwi

@bazola Unintended?

bazola

yeah lol

Jay1148

Grumble grumble...

bazola

17:44

you could use an effect like that to simulate shutting and opening your eyes though

skiwi

lol

Yu-Gi-Oh! Legacy of the Duelist | EPIC DUEL!!!

►

The sound is a bit loud at the end ;)

bazola

this one is almost useful, makes things darker the closer they are to the ground

@Jay1148 make sure to set the environment variable for java?

Jay1148

@bazola Java was not installed at all. I think it will work now

There we go

whiskey-tango-foxtrot

bazola

thats a new one

Jay1148

[2015-08-01 13:58:16,343]  INFO Log4jAdapter [    Conn-0] (     Log4jAdapter.jav
a: 16) - Send to Jay1148: ServerErrorMessage [message=java.lang.RuntimeException
: org.codehaus.groovy.control.MultipleCompilationErrorsException: startup failed
:
C:\Cardshifter\cardshifter-0.6.1-SNAPSHOT-20150729-0036\mods\Cyborg-Chronicles\m
echs.groovy: 1: unexpected char: 0xBB @ line 1, column 2.
   ∩╗┐card('Spareparts') {
    ^

1 error
]

skiwi

17:59

Seems like it inserted some random character when editing

Jay1148

card('Spareparts') {
    creature 'Mech'
    flavor 'Cobbled together from whatever was lying around at the time.'
    attack 0
    health 1
    manaCost 0
    scrap 3
    noAttack()
    sickness 0 // rush
}

Hm

raw.githubusercontent.com/Cardshifter/Cardshifter/mods/…

There was an extra line break, which I removed in the local file, but still got an error. WTF

Time for some troubleshooting

skiwi

Holy lol

Doesn't seem like a good card to run though vs Fireball

Jay1148

Doesn't Java convert regular code characters to random weird characters when running it (e.g., changing it to Bytecode?)

skiwi

That card may really only exist to nerf Mages in Arena

@Jay1148 Nope, check the character set the file is saved on and what OS you are on

Jay1148

OK. I'll restore that file to the file from the last snapshot and see if the error still happens, should help narrow it down

Guess I'll try adding just the new code now and see if it bogs down

And, error happened again

skiwi

18:09

Maybe use another editor, like Notepad++

Jay1148

I used regular notepad

I'm thinking it might be a syntax error in the DSL... maybe. Kind of curious why it would compile fine but get an error at runtime

skiwi

I'm pretty sure the error is in the file itself

It seems to get the error at runtime because only then you're trying to load the mod itself

Jay1148

Ahhh found a clue

I did a copy+paste of the working snapshot text into the one I'm trying to load (instead of copying the file itself), and it broke the same way

So... think an error related to this PC rather than the code itself?

skiwi

I think so, yes

Not exactly sure what's causing it though

Most likely something is being converted when you actually save the file

Jay1148

18:29

A-hah!

^^ Hex comparison of the orig file vs. copy+paste version

skiwi

So it is really there... but why

Jay1148

Actually, it's not while copy+pasting, it's when saving the file in notepad

I'm asking around next door

Jay1148

19:00

It's working, mostly. I did run into some kind of error after a few turns (I had two of Upgrado I, played one first turn, 1 next turn (so I had a II and a I), after a few turns, a new II magically appeared, or rather one of the originals probably failed to destroy itself, perhaps a conflict between the two cards

Send to Jay1148: CardInfo: 84 in zone 50 - {SCRAP=4, TAUNT=1, flavor=U
pgrades itself on each new turn up to Mk V., MAX_HEALTH=6, SICKNESS=0, effect=Gi
ve creatures of type Mech owned by you on Battlefield 1 ATTACK and HEALTH

Summon 1 Upgrado Mk V to your Battlefield
 at start of your turn
Set HEALTH to 0 on this card

 at start of your turn, name=Upgrado Mk IV, ATTACK=4, creatureType=Mech, HEALTH=
6, ATTACK_AVAILABLE=1}
[2015-08-01 14:55:10,203] ERROR   AISystem [ai-thread-1] (         AISystem.java

I think entity #43 is the AI, not sure why it would fail to end turn at that particular time (I don't even think it was its turn)

[2015-08-01 14:55:07,931]  INFO   AISystem [    Conn-0] (         AISystem.java:
 46) - AI entities [Entity #43]

Ah, looks like the bug happened while summoning Mk IV. Runtime error, the preceding Mk III did not get destroyed

Found it, I think.

// Mk III HEALTH CONFLICT MUST HAPPEN BETWEEN...
card("Upgrado Mk III") {
    creature "Mech"
    flavor "Upgrades itself on each new turn up to Mk V."
    token()
    attack 3
    health 5
    sickness 0
    scrap 3
    afterPlay { change SCRAP by 2 on "you" }
    onStartOfTurn { summon 1 of "Upgrado Mk IV" to "you" zone "Battlefield" }
    // ... THIS EFFECT:
    onStartOfTurn { set HEALTH to 0 on { thisCard() } }
}
card("Upgrado Mk IV") {
    creature "Mech"
    flavor "Upgrades itself on each new turn up to Mk V."

@skiwi ^^ what do you think? (see my code comments)

skiwi

19:30

I'm not thinking much right now

Jay1148

Yep, that was the issue.

SirPython

19:54

Monking.

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] jay1148 pushed commit 285daf5e to mods

Update mechs.groovy

Disabled effects on Upgrado Mk IV & Mk V that were causing runtime exceptions. Need further troubleshooting, looks like a conflict on the first card's HEALTH resource when the second card is being summon due to whilePresent{} effects.

Jay1148

Hey @SirPython (this is Phrancis)

SirPython

@Jay1148 Hello "Phrancis"!

What happened to Phrancis?

Jay1148

Been playing around with a game concept of "self-upgrading" cards, it works and is pretty cool, see this: github.com/Cardshifter/Cardshifter/blob/mods/extra-resources/…

Phrancis' wife has kidnapped his MacBook while he was at a friend's house (she needed it for a video presentation)

Duga

[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] build for commit 285daf5e on mods: The Travis CI build passed

Jay1148

20:01

It's not really pretty in code form, but in game it is almost transparent (save for some potentially conflicting effects)

Phrancis

And typing chat on phone sucks

Duga

23:45

Mat's Mug vs. Simon André Forsberg: 313 diff. Year: +1203. Quarter: -301. Month: -23. Week: +124. Day: -23.

200_success vs. janos: 15795 diff. Year: -3805. Quarter: -884. Month: -70. Week: -581. Day: -70.

200_success vs. rolfl: 3001 diff. Year: +2255. Quarter: +2589. Month: +10. Week: +314. Day: +10.

Loki Astari vs. Simon André Forsberg: 2885 diff. Year: -2891. Quarter: -1295. Month: +5. Week: -30. Day: +5.

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Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)