Electrical Engineering

Branden Boucher

00:00

Last night I wasted a few hours trying to figure out why my xmega wouldn't receive an RS232 signal. I had it enabled and everything was set up according to everything I could read. Turns out about three lines down from where I enabled the RX (CTRL = RX_bm | TX_bm), I reset the control register to CTRL = TX_bm.

Really makes one question their abilities as a programmer.

Asmyldof

@jippie sleep well n stuff

@BrandenBoucher And admitting it in a reasonably public chat makes one question the qualities of a diplomatic being :-P

Branden Boucher

Well, it's more of an attempt to get comfort, hoping other's will say "Don't worry about it. I do that all the time".

Nick Alexeev

00:17

@Asmyldof I do between 170km and 220km a month. On flat terrain.

Asmyldof

@NickAlexeev I'm hard pressed to find flatter terain than the Netherlands

At EFFECT we used to have this bulky 110V transformer driven 150W halogen driver for a ringlight

So we had a 230V to 115V transformer

But now we need it for other stuff

So, I happen to know someone who made breakable Shedrah dimmer systems for power LEDs, that turn out to be 97% efficient at 100% output, 90%-ish between 20% and 80%, and who has 700mA 5W LEDs

So...

Meet the 500g weighing replacement

Of which 300g (or more) is the ringlight fitting I stole from the 9kg halogen box

Yay, better dimming, quieter, and 1/30th the power

Marla

what are all the mouse holes for ? Or did you just use random drill bits sizes ?

Asmyldof

Back of envelope airodynamic approximation for the fan flow

aero*

Marla

looks like a waveguide from Lost in Space

Asmyldof

lol

It does leak a bunch of light once the ringlight is stuck in

Reflection and all

Adding my smallest parabolic made the focal distance more meh, so on balance, it's better to have no reflector and only a small plastic lens that fit the situation

But, anyway, the black 25x25mm box on the back is a fan that was supposed to go on the inside, but since this was a 2 hour bodge I of course missed 1mm of space after mounting the LED at the right distance

Marla

00:40

prototypes have a beauty all of their own

most everyone I know loves their prototype more than finished product

Nick Alexeev

@Asmyldof The highest point in Netherlands is 322m. I was surprised that it's a positive number.

The Photon

@NickAlexeev (and @Asmyldof) If I commute 3 days a week it would make ~115 km, and I have about the shortest commute of anybody I know.

Asmyldof

@NickAlexeev Vaals

@ThePhoton Used to work about 21km away 5 days a week, going on my old rickety student bike.

Then I bought an actual bike and now I do 100km in a single go without issue

:-)

But not for work, so when I'm very busy it's the shopping and small trips here and there that get me to 50km a week

The Photon

@Asmyldof Could do that once. If I did it now I'd mess up my knee and not be able to ride for a week after.

Asmyldof

:'(

Marla

00:55

@W5VO Here is my latest challenge in radio cabinet restoration repair. The radio part is easy. Thankfully it isn't bakelite.

Asmyldof

@Marla Ooooh! Glasfiber molding challenge! ^.^

I should go to bed or something like that

Marla

Actually 2 part epoxy. Here is result so far.

Asmyldof

You can use epoxies with glassfibre

Marla

Is a clock radio with gold colored clock frame in the circular hole. I wanted to make it two tone, but can't find any cabinet lines that want to be 2 tone

Asmyldof

Made a high impact resistant casing with kevlar/carbon hybrid weave and epoxy

:-D

Marla

01:01

oooh, Kevlar. Nice.

Asmyldof

I think it was 32/68

Of course, just called aramide, but that's basically keblar

kevlar

@NickAlexeev Mean!

Marla

I have wooden cabinets that I also do. But they are strictly for original restoration. Although I have made a few with shade fades from brown to black

Asmyldof

I like woodworking

It's relaxing

Marla

I didn't see that. Nick removed the comment so quickly, I must have been typing. Gee, can't even multi-task anymore

Nick Alexeev

@Asmyldof I was trying to post an uninterrupted block of lines.

Asmyldof

01:03

Still mean

Nick Alexeev

@Marla With prototypes, it depends.

Some prototypes are over-engineered with the intent to cost-optimize for production later. These are the ones that engineers tend love more than the finished product.

Asmyldof

@Marla I was referring to deleting it immediately

Nick Alexeev

Some are under-engineered: speed-up prototyping, get it into the and obtain test results early. Sometimes this under-engineering is deliberate, sometimes it's accidental.

@Asmyldof sigh

Asmyldof

This is a chat, you know

People ... how do you say.... chat

Nick Alexeev

@Asmyldof Fine. I'll go write a blog post and post a link here.

Asmyldof

01:06

If that calms your brain. I read your response just fine, using my built in "oh, yah, this is a chat" filter

Nick Alexeev

There is a dozen different flavors of prototypes. The word prototype grew to mean different things: from a dummy mock-up for human factors studies, to a pre-production run ready for factory.

A non-technical manager or client uses the word "just a prototype" for all of them. An R&D engineer has to extract the truth. What exactly should I build? A mock-up? A proof of concept breadboard? An earnest attempt at production-ready device? It's not always obvious.
On the other end, this confusion is often used to enhance the image. Business people say to other business people (clients, investors): "We have a prototype [straight face preferable]." Not infrequently, they try to paint a picture of an almost complete product, where they actually have only a flimsy proof of concept.

</end>

Marla

@NickAlexeev Speaking of under engineered and fast prototype, We once made a locomotive engine from one of our Induction Heaters. It was for Sandia Laboratories. 300 KW, 180 Hz inverter to pull the locomotive engine along the tracks using shorted loop in the rail track ties. Must have worked (it was all secret at the time), they never came back with problems.

Asmyldof

@Marla Sounds fun

Marla

@NickAlexeev Good point on various understandings of prototype

Asmyldof

Also sounds like something that wouldn't be approved over here these days

Anyway, I'm going to bed, because... I'm not tired and that's how it works?

Marla

01:08

We rigged up a ferris wheel of railroad ties to test it. Kind of a dynamometer. Got paid very handsomely (of course with government lab buyer)

Asmyldof

Oooohhh.. the fun you can have with something like that

And practical!

The Photon

@NickAlexeev In my experience recently it starts out as "a proof-of-concept breadboard" and then the schedule gets compressed and it becomes the initial production run.

Asmyldof

Free-air assisted-flow clothesdryer

Marla

It freaked us out the way it ramped up in power. Kind of a flying saucer sound. Wooooom, Woooom, Woom, Woom, Wom, Lift off

Put those burning exploding Hover Boards to shame. LOL

Nick Alexeev

@ThePhoton That happens. Capital equipment that's made in handfuls kind of lends itself to that.

Asmyldof

01:11

@ThePhoton I would not be surprised any more if someone proposes to just pay young students to solder a bunch of strip boards for initial production. Heck, I'm not sure if actual quick-proto breadboards show up

@Marla I'm guessing no videos?

:'(

Nick Alexeev

@Asmyldof Do you mean rope to hang socks on to dry?

Asmyldof

@NickAlexeev Spinning rail segments!

The Photon

@NickAlexeev My new target price is "too low to capitalize".

Marla

guessing correct. That was 2002. I don't really know why at the time it was secret. Our technology was pretty much off the shelf

Asmyldof

Basically a centrifuge, but huge... a centrifHUGE

Nick Alexeev

01:12

@Asmyldof In the US, young students can't solder to save their lives.

Asmyldof

@NickAlexeev Here maybe 20%, but that never stopped any manager to have them do it anyway

Nick Alexeev

@ThePhoton Is that at the new company with safety nets?

Marla

@NickAlexeev I can't solder to save my life without the old "good stuff", Tin Lead and rosin core

The Photon

@NickAlexeev It's been in the works since before that.

Asmyldof

@Marla Just need more power!

Flames! Flames are awesome!

:-P

Marla

01:14

Old tube radios, solder connections 60 years old, they kind of need a jump start with that rosin core. Am down to my last spool and guard it religiously

Asmyldof

@Marla I have pretty good experiences with normal modern Sn/Pb and just flux pen or flux fluids

But maybe European old crap is different

shrug

Marla

@Asmyldof Actually, I bought an old style "gun type" of soldering iron for the tube radios. Yes, it needs a Lot more power.

Asmyldof

Also with noPb and just 100W/120W/180W where needed

Marla

How I love the smell of burning rosin in the morning

Asmyldof

Don't like the gun type, just bought the WX2 system from Weller

Marla

01:18

I have just begun doing the SMD here at home. I finally acknowledge that I have to use SMD for projects.

Asmyldof

Think the bug one (more blunt murder weapon than soldering tool) is 200W, the normal PCB usable one 120W and a 45W micro tip one

bug=big

Oh! And yes! The new IR reflow oven is 800W

tiny little toy, but still, pretty effective

If you have project money to spend the WX2 is pretty nice as a complete system, but it's most certainly not something to hobby buiy

Marla

Thankfully I retired with enough funds that I can afford a large budget of new implements. My consulting pays for some, but I absorb the capital equipment costs as the cost of me updating my skill set.

Asmyldof

WXP80 would do though. Will only not work for very thick wires, but affordable

WX2 is all "detect what's connected" and "remember what you prefer" and stuff, pretty handy if you often solder and/or have many tools you connect up to it

Marla

Interesting piece of history : Before battery technology advanced, there were soldering irons that used butane and flame, for portable (off the grid) soldering

Asmyldof

i.e. doesn't matter where I plug in the .... WTXP? the tiny 45W pencil it'll see "oh, that's the WTXP, he wants main temp 300 and optional setting 350, 10s sleep wait time and sensitive wakeup"

@Marla Still exist and still way better than battery operated ones

Have three of them

Marla

01:24

ah, I didn't know that. Thought they went away

Asmyldof

Had one battery one, decent ish of qualification, but gave it away, pointless for me

Weller has one that I put on par with the 80W types on max

The one thing with butane pencils is that invariably the gas valve for flow control will wear out waaaaaaayyyy too quickly

Marla

Made a great cigarette lighter back when I smoked

Asmyldof

Of course, corner DIY store ones will wear out in a week and a weller one in a year, but still

I have only used it to cut those PP straps from packages

(Apart from the normal uses)

But then, I have never smoked. Well, not more than a couple

Gotta try everything once, found it bleh, left it

Marla

One thing I was concerned about back in the 90's and early 21st century was that hobbyist things were disappearing. I am delighted to see that youngsters now have a plethora of low cost devices available.

Asmyldof

I do wish though, that some of those hobby things were actually not designed by a group of baboons locked in an industrial freezer

Well, anyway

Marla

01:30

The hobbyist (read future designer) doesn't know about the larger world , like we do. The hobbyist feeds on leading edge technology that satisfies their desire to make things that DO things.

Back when computers first were widely available, hobbyists (ok coders) only had access to devices that could make things happen on some video screen. The ability to connect a computer to REAL outside world ( I/O) just didn't exist. So they settled for making things happen on a video screen

Asmyldof

@Marla Yes, but already the 'duino people are entering workforces and now I get assignments where they say "we made this, it works great, and nothing needs to be changed, but can you make the software that looks at milivolts, because we hear that's possible with an ADC" --> Enter the 'stack-of-duino' monster with no thought to anything noise

@Marla Actually those PCs originate from logic grids with lamps and switches, can't get more I/O than that

PC->Computer, my pollogies

And my ZX Spectrum could do all kinds of cool shit with .... all kinds of cool shit

:-)

Marla

@Asmyldof I understand the PC's origin. But back then, a hobbyist with a PC just didn't have an Inexpensive way to I/O to the real world.

Asmyldof

To be honest though, I went to MSX quite soon

Hobbyist lecture was regularly filled with "Attach this 54-series or that 74-series here and you get an 8bit GP Input or Output port"

Marla

As regards to the "duino" people, I was fortunate in being able to choose my employees (my students). As in any industry, there are the higher achievers and lesser.

If I had been saddled with the average "duino" person, I probably would have a different outlook than I have now.

Asmyldof

Sure, sure, but the problem is that duino's give these people that feel the need to e-mail me about FW development, usually semi-management types, the idea that everything is like, super easy

So, I have mixed feelings about it all.

They try to push their, frankly hardly designed at all, devices onto every tom dick and harry by hiding the limitations of the duino approach, which in my experience breeds management that feels everything is drag and drop now, no worries

Okay, going to bed now, because I think I may be at the start of a sleepiness moment, and this insomnia stuff is very tempramental

Marla

01:43

Well, lots of averages. Average workers, average managers. I never was average, I worked with what I had. Made the best of it. Pointed out what I could. You just have to accept that life is what it is. Make good decisions. Its not so different than designing. I don't get angry with what life throws at me, I take it, and use it as a resource.

Asmyldof

@Marla There's plenty of places I can get my creative rocks off.

Marla

good nite Asmyldof. Hope you relax and sleep well

Asmyldof

Heck, couple months ago I built up a waver stepper in China with basically nearly no resources beyond a spanner

Marla

is fun , those things

Asmyldof

yes it is :-)

Marla

01:44

or, as Spock said, :

Asmyldof

I'm ramping down while my teeth and such are being done ^.^

Marla

Captain, I am endeavouring to build a mnemnonic device using bear skins and stone knives

Asmyldof

:D

Today the new to be hired Project Manager of my part time employer cheered me up a little

He said "Gaat heen en vermenigvuldigt U, of zo", which means "Go and multiply thine self, or something"

To which I replied "About half the world population isn't very open to that second bit, it turns out"

Marla

I think i know what you are alluding to , giggle, :)

Asmyldof

Which impulsively prompted him to say "Such a shame, because I think this company would be ecstatic to have two or three more of you"

Marla

01:51

that would be a good thing

Asmyldof

:-)

Physically at the bed point now

Technically sort of taking an entire chat room with me to bed, but let's not dwell on that

Nick Alexeev

02:32

0

Q: Is it possible to use a 555 timer for a BLE chip or is there a better alternative to set up the circuit?

I recently bought a nRF8001 BLE chip and an Arduino development kit . I wanted to learn how to set up the circuit for the bluetooth and then program the bluetooth to connect it to a smart device. Should I invest in a nRF8001 development kit? Does anyone have some sort of template for a schematic/...

@jippie post-Christmass Arduinocalypse has begun

3

Marla

03:25

@NickAlexeev Hooray ! An Arduino Apocolypse. That means there are lots and lots of youngsters inspired to do technical and scientific things and learn. Just be thankful that you aren't on the Arduino SE. :) Happy New Year

W5VO

05:54

As long as they don't say they're too young

The Photon

06:38

@Asmyldof TMI

trayres

Has anyone ever used an IC test clip to do in circuit programming?

digikey.com/product-detail/en/923698/923698-ND/3851 is specifically what I was looking at

jippie

07:11

@NickAlexeev yes, I noticed that too yesterday. Several PCA questions on the stack.

Asmyldof

08:50

@ThePhoton I know, that's what made it fun to say

Asmyldof

10:39

@trayres Yup, Usually ATTiny's

Fiddly work though, with that many contacts

Asmyldof

15:12

Maaaaaaaaaahhh

On the brighter side, though, the ringlight has been working the majority of the day without issues

(was a bit hard to get the image right at 25x40x maginification into the phone's camera :-) )

Branden Boucher

16:08

Hello all

Asmyldof

Hiyas

Just on the point of me possibly leaving for home, but I'll be back about 30-ish minutes later

Maybe

PlasmaHH

19:03

Bah, int Er net is so friggingly slow...

Asmyldof

@PlasmaHH blub

Transcript for

Electrical Engineering