Electrical Engineering

Amith kk

03:40

@Jim You'd be as crazy as me if you are aged like me and have to study hindi

Kortuk

08:09

@Amithkk I am terrible at it. After a summer of studying I only knew a few basic things. I knew them well, but terribly

Saad Abbasi

08:28

anyone have any suggestions for a CPLD Altera development kit? Note I don't have any experience with CPLDs

Jim

10:29

girr - Python has changed the name of the gtk module to Gtk

what happed to Bold?

oh obviously you can't do it in the mi**ddle** of a word, oops

Matt

bah

What do I need to do in order for Windows to find my arduino as a com port?

Jim

@Matt try installing a different OS, something better ;)

arf arf

Matt

funny

Oh how I love windows

Extract Compressed (Zipped) Folders (Not Responding)

Jim

I'm just battling with pythons gi.repository at the mo, trying to port our code to gtk/introspection

apparently gdk no longer exists

Matt

Ah, there - after a delay of about a minute it starts extracting the zip

WINDOWS SUCKS

Jim

10:44

Breaking News!

gah, gdk now has to be imported separately and it's got a capital at the start too - someone is having a laugh

Matt

Right.. finally, com6 is available

That was fun.

Plug the arduino in, windows says "installing driver". Then it says "Driver install failed". You look into it and it says "There is no driver for this device."

After hunting for what seems like ages, and finding the normal "update driver" button greyed out, I find a second "update driver" button buried about 6 dialogues in to the properties.

WINDOWS SUCKS THE CHEESE OFF A GOAT

Jim

@Matt lol - you gotta love how poor the UI is on Microshaft products

@Matt haha - and then some!

Matt

Not only that, but how poor it is at identifying what should be a generic device - just because it doesn't have the device ID on the microsoft.com database.... It didn't actually need to install any more files, just look at an .inf file that told it what the device was - which it could have worked out from the endpoint class like every other operating system does.

Jim

@Matt I'm sure they'll update it soon...ish

Matt

yeah right

It's been like this since windows was first conceived

and they still haven't got it right

Jim

10:52

Open source software: 1 Proprietary software: 0

Matt

USB is supposed to be plug-and-play, not pluug, unplug, plug again, hunt out the drivers, try and find how to tell it to actually lookk for the drivers, unplug again, plug in, unplug, throw out window, install linux.

2

Jim

:)

Matt

BTW, yes you need PyGTK on windows for the gui to work

Jim

I'm just messing with all that now

i'm changing it to the new modules, pygtk is about to become depreciated

Matt

reduced in value?

(bloody geordies ;) )

Jim

10:57

weirdo

Matt

you mean deprecated

I have a main window!!!

However, it's now not responding

so I kill it, and restart, and it can't find the uno on that port now

ok, unplug and plug in again and I'm working

Tabs work

Scrollbar works

Sliders lock it up

Load sound locks it up

I am guessing the serial comms aren't quite working right

ok, I press Trigger and the RX LED flashes once. Then it locks up

so it must be waiting for reception that isn't happening. Do I have the right code on this uno? Ummm... no, I don't think I do ;)

SOUND!!!!

Load sound works

ok, so I can reboot into linux now?

Jim

11:13

nice one :)

Matt

\\.\COM6

Jim

@Matt it looks better than I thought

Matt

Although COM6 works too

If you have a double-figure com port (COM10 or more) you have to use the \\.\COMxx format

Jim

I'm just looking at this GObject Introspection thing, if I can't get it to work I'll ask me mate to give me a hand with it later when he comes online

Matt

k

right, rebooting into SensibleOS

Jim

11:16

it makes sense, pygtk is as good as gone, gtk will be deprecated in around 6 months and the introspection thing is just a direct bridge to the C functions, so hopefully it'll last t next 5-10 years

@Matt phew!

Matt

back (with a sigh of relief)

Jim

@Matt do you need some post Microshaft counseling?

they should offer that, for all the pain they've caused

Matt

heh

Amith kk

11:53

appears

Matt

oh no

Amith kk

?

Mint anit booting?

Matt

you broke it

Amith kk

????????

Matt's confuse made Amithkk gain CON status

@Jim Making a new distro(based on ubuntu)

@Matt I broke it ? How?

We have 101 stars!

Matt

@Amithkk How should I know? But if you installed it on your system and it was working then it must have been you that broke it.

Amith kk

12:05

@Matt LOL i asked ya .I aint using mint :D :| :D :|

@Matt I need your input on something

Matt

hmm?

Amith kk

Should i make one move version of my distro with a mint base?

like mint-neo

Matt

Do you want to?

Amith kk

I can :D

Matt

I guessed you could, but do you want to?

Amith kk

12:09

maybe :P

It'll depend

Matt

I should focus on getting the first distro right before branching out

Jim

13:21

@Matt I'm just chewing through this gtk stuff one error at a time, they've changed loads of it

right now I've got the serial connection picker displaying ;)

just need to do s few more changes to get the main GUI working

the reference pages for all the new stuff happens to be offline right now, have been since last night - great load of help that is eh!

Matt

1sounds like a change for the better in the long run tho.

@Jim helpfull...

Jim

it is, it's like a direct bridge to the C stuff, it means that Python and C code can be used interchangeably while progging for GTK

right now tho, it's a pain in the butt

Jim

13:51

humm, my Arduino just changed port to ttyUSB1

it's not done that before

Matt

mine has

Jim

well I can now see the main GUI

it just wont load or save

...I think a cider is called for

Matt

yes please

Jim

it's the cheapest and finest pear cider from aldi

Taurus - Refreshing Pear Cider

Matt

14:12

lol

Why the hell do they call it "pear cider"? It's perry! Freaking PERRY!!!

"pear cider" is like calling it "pear fermented apple juice" - it just makes no sense

</pedantic>

Perry

Perry is an alcoholic beverage made from fermented pears. Perry has been common for centuries in Britain, particularly in the Three Counties of Gloucestershire, Herefordshire and Worcestershire, and in parts of south Wales; and France, especially Normandy and Anjou. In more recent years, commercial perry has also been referred to as "pear cider", though some organisations (such as CAMRA) do not accept this as a name for the traditional drink. Perry pears and techniques As with apples specifically grown to make cider, special pear cultivars are used: in the UK the most commonly used...

Jim

@Matt ha - true, it's just the average cider swilling goon doesn't know what perry is

Matt

That guy with his light switches never came back... I wonder if he electrocuted himself?

Jim

@Matt yeah, I love how the response to "is this the right place to ask?" was met with "yeah no problem"

there's a home improvement SE just for that sort of thing

it's challenging, sometimes i find it easier to go AWOL

it just takes so much energy

Matt

heh

I am a problem solver at heart with amazing powers of visualization ;)

so helping people like that is second nature to me

Do you let your PCBs cool before the paper removal stage?

Jim

@Matt It would help if he stayed on subject long enough for you to help him fully

@Matt yeah, at least until it can be picked up without burnin the fingers

Matt

14:25

@Jim heh. I usually just dump it straight in the water. I am trying letting it cool first this time. I have also supplemented my PCB cleaning with some surgical spirit (closest I have to isopropyl).

Matt

14:53

grrr

Why won't this circuit take?

Jim

I wish live.gnome.org/PyGI was live (How Ironic) I could really do with the references for the gi.repository

Matt

All down one side it just won't transfer

Jim

@Matt no idea

@Matt is it near an edge?

Matt

Not that near

It's about 1" from the edge inwards

The circuit itself is a good 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from the edge of the physical PCB

Jim

@Matt with a gap that size you really have to concentrate on the edges with the tip of the iron

is it really bad?

missing quite a bit?

Matt

14:56

It's only one edge that is being affected.

The rest is perfect

Jim

gah - how annoying

Matt

and it just hasn't even begun to take down that edge. Not a sausage. Not even patches. A slight shadow is all.

I am going to crack out the wire wool and give the PCB a good going over

Jim

@Matt good idea, give it a good clean after too

@Matt you got some nail polish remover?

Matt

I use wire wool, soap and water.

No, I have surgical spirit - closest I could find

Jim

@Matt that'll be better than the soap, soap can leave residue, and not that kind that's good for you

►

...it's the only cheese that's guaranteed to please!

Matt

15:16

Found the problem

Near perfect transfer. One pad slightly gone top left (not used), and one bottom right needs a touch up

It was a very slight lip along the edge of the copper from cutting the board causing the iron to not make perfect contact near that edge of the board.

Jim

@Matt what was up with it?

@Matt ah yeah, I see that makes sense

Matt

trim it off with a knife - baddabing baddaboom.

Jim

you got to be careful with sharp edges on the bottom of the iron too

hope you're not using the finest teflon coated wonder iron

Matt

now, where is my etch almost resist pen?

I always iron through a piece of kitchen roll. It helps to stop slippage of the paper.

Jim

is this the Arduino IO expansion shield?

Matt

15:19

yep

Jim

coolio

Matt

You want one?

Jim

@Matt for my wife?

Matt

Nah... for free ;)

Jim

lol

Matt

15:21

I'm going to write an arduino library to go with it too

Jim

@Matt that'd be nice, you're too kind sir

@Matt excellent

Matt

I'll see if this works, and if it does knock up another

Jim

does it offer digital IO?

Matt

16x digital IO

in 2 blocks of 8

Jim

wowie!

Matt

15:23

and it's addressable too, so you can run 8 of them off the same SS pin

(hard wired to pin 10 atm)

Jim

nice, I bet it's a lot faster than using shift registers

Matt

It's more powerful - it does input and output. It's also capable of interrupt-on-change but I haven't wired that up.

It works just like the PICs IO pins

making a big blobby mess of etch-resist pen here... multiple layers - nice and thick

Jim

@Matt lol

Matt

right, gonna go start the etch

When I have enough cash I am going to invest in some proper etching kit. A proper tank, UV exposer, etc.

Jim

@Matt ooh, fancy pants

Jim

16:08

wow, Segmentation fault, that's a new one never made one of those before

fun fun

Matt

lol

Ah, a properly etched board is a thing of beauty....

Shame this one isn't ;)

Jim

@Matt huh, no go eh?

Matt

It's as good as ok. I think one track didn't quite etch right, but I'm not sure - will have to test it with the DMM

Jim

is it as beautiful as a Segmentation fault?

Matt

I love SEGVs...

Jim

16:14

@Matt nowt a bit of resistor leg wont fix

Matt

@Jim May be able to bridge with just solder it's so close

Jim

humm - I have ported everything in the code apart from the serial connection failed dialog

for some reason it wants to throw a segfault

strange

Matt

A SEGV is usually because you are trying to write to a section of memory not allocated to the process

Most often caused by using a wrong pointer

Jim

16:30

k - I'll bear that in mind as I hunt it down

humm, it seems to be when I attempt to pack the image into the dialog window, it doesn't like it

Matt

And of course you're doing it the same way as all the other times... :/

Jim

@Matt pretty much, but this gi.repository is a big spanner in the works, it's altered a good 15% of the code

Matt

16:45

better now than later though, eh?

Jim

@Matt for sure

Jim

17:06

right segfault found for sure

obviously shut_down.vbox.pack_start(icon_image2, True, True, 0) is no longer usable

Matt

heh

Jim

for some reason I can no longer pack things into a dialog widget

Matt

hmm

Jim

so it will come up as long as i don't pack an image or text in there

very strange

and the freaking reference website is still down

Matt

the server is running, but the web service (apache probably) isn't running

you'd expect something like this to have mirrors...

Jim

17:13

@Matt weird - it's a conspiracy! they don't want us to know!! ;)

Matt

No it's not - they just want us to think it is.

Jim

you want the truth, you can't handle the...

...gi.repository

not as catchy as the original, I know ;)

Matt

heh

Oh bollocks

Jim

it's a shame, the rest of the code looks okay

@Matt what?

Matt

Spot the deliberate mistake

Jim

17:22

@Matt ha ha

dude

Matt

Bloody PCB

The 28 pin DIP footprint is an extra 100 mil wide for some odd reason

Jim

zoomy zoom zoom

Matt

Why didn't I spot that?

Jim

@Matt cuz you didn't do a test print

gung ho!

Matt

The pitch is fine, which I checked before hand

Jim

17:24

you're getting worse than me :) obviously it'll take some catching up yet

Matt

There's 2 28-pin DIP footprints in PCB, a wide one and a narrow one.

Except the narrow one isn't

Jim

gah

Matt

I have never seen a 28 pin DIP that width before

Jim

@Matt nope me neither

Matt

And my mouse wheel has suddenly gone schitz again

Jim

17:26

@Matt is the little plastic bit that goes in the encoder rounded off?

Matt

I doubt it

It does this sometimes. The sensitivity of the mouse wheel seems to be randomly selected each boot

Jim

@Matt it's happened to me before

@Matt ah, software based problem

Matt

It's something that has been complained about many times by many people but as will all these complaints (ubuntu based) they fall on deaf ears.

Jim

@Matt ah the same as the weird volume thing in pulseaudio

the first 3 notches do nothing at all

Matt

They just get met with an "It doesn't happen to us so it doesn't exist" attitude.

Jim

17:33

then. all of a sudden - the wonder of sound!

Matt

I had a major problem with the wireless in 11.04 whereby it would work fine but then randomly lock up and require a reboot to get it working again.

Jim

@Matt not cool

Matt

Happened on my laptop, my netbook and my desktop all with different wireless chipsets

yet they denied there was a problem

Jim

@Matt that's crazy

Matt

Fixed it by switching to the windows drivers

but I could replicate it all the time (especially when I didn't want to)

Jim

17:35

@Matt who'd have thunked it eh?

Matt

but no... "We don't have a problem with it"

so they dismissed it out of hand.

Arseholes

I even filed an official bug report but it got closed almost straight away as "Cannot reproduce"

Jim

@Matt wha? lazy trogs!

lol - my mouse wheel is squeaking like an old gate

Matt

lol

Jim

well, I guess I'll have to wait until the gnome site is back online before I can fix this code, the rest of it is fine, will pop it in the drop box so you can test it with Windows

Matt

k

Jim

17:49

it's not quite the same as there's stuff I've had to cut out as I don't know what the new code is, it's jus cosmetic stuff tho

Jim

18:08

the serial connection lost window is somewhat minimal now :)

girr firefox keeps crashing

I've given firefox a fair old chance, methinks it's time to move back to the safety of chrome

brb with a better browser

Dean

LOL

Jim

18:26

ahh, that's better, it even renders images better, ah the joy

Jim

18:46

just have to swap out the default search engine to get rid of the horrid Mint Google searchy thing, now it's perfect :)

Matt

19:09

Hah! It took 3 transfer attempts, but that is a perfect etch. Even the outline is intact ;)

Jim

@Matt nice one, persistence for the win!

Matt

Yup

Piccy coming in a sec

Jim

I've got to do a reboot, my sound has crashed

brb

Matt

@Jim k

Jim

@Matt oooooh :)

@Matt did you tin it?

it's very nice

Matt

19:18

@Jim No, I don't have any tinning stuff

It's just freshly scoured copper

Jim

@Matt looking nice and shiny dude

Jim

20:09

right I'm off to make a tune

will be around later on tomorrow night

going to put a bed in the back of the van during the day time, should be around > 6pm

peace all, see you soon

Matt

ok

be good

Matt

22:03

Yay - my BigIO board works - and so does the Arduino library.

Transcript for

Electrical Engineering