The DMZ

A: Preventing artificial latency or "Lag Hacking" in multiplayer games

6:24 AM

0

So...what if as a community of "fair rules" and "equal opportunity" seeking gamers agree to donate overflow bandwidth that we're not using to the game servers while were connected. And then when anyone is connected, and in game, they're allotted so many seconds of uninterrupted bandwidth suppli...

This is just...wtf?

@RoryAlsop Yeah, I'm probably going to get 2 Yubikeys

7:23 AM

@OakSecurity SSDs are incredibly hard to wipe securely. The only way to be sure is to microwave them, then take the remains and eat them

Journeyman Geek

7:51 AM

....

@MechMK1 you had me till the end :D

You dip em in batter and fry them. Like... chips...

@JourneymanGeek It's not wrong though :D

Also, here's a random story

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 when I was studying forensics - there were two papers

with exactly opposite conclusions

also a lot of modern drives internally encrypt files - so a secure delete might be good enough

but nothing beats a properass physical destruction :D

I recently watched a 36C3 talk about why 3D printed clothes don't work

Journeyman Geek

0_0

And the speaker said one level of comfort is psychological comfort, e.g. how in-place you feel wearing clothes

> I'm here in Jeans and a Shirt, and I feel alright, because that's the dress code around here. Some people are here in Onesies and Duck Costumes, and I'm sure they feel fine too

> [audience chuckles]

And someone wrote a comment below that video that the people who chuckled should feel ashamed for "shaming" the people who were in costumes

And that comment just really made me reflect on the mindset of that person

1.) Are we so politically correct now that we can't laugh at people who try to make us laugh? When they put on a duck costume, they did that to be entertaining. And the people who laughed were entertained. You need a very sick world view to interpret any of that as malice.

2.) The person who wrote the comment was not the one who was wearing the duck costume. It wasn't one person saying "I feel uncomfortable that I was put in the spotlight". No, it was someone else, feeling offended on the behalf of someone else

And this desire to feel offended on behalf of other people is just fucked up.

Imagine I was sitting with some friends and one of them makes a joke about me. He laughs, I laugh, my other friends laugh. Suddenly some random stranger comes and lectures my friend about how he can't joke about me because it hurts my feelings.

What the actual fuck?

Because if you look at this with a liberal mindset, this very action basically implies that I am not able to speak for myself

It implies that a self-proclaimed hero figure needs to come rescue me, because I am incapable of fending for myself

So I am making this point right here: I am fighting for the right for my friends to call me retarded, and for the right to think duck costumes are funny!

Anonymous

8:21 AM

Morning.

Anonymous

8:20 and I've already had an argument with a blithering idiot, lovely.

Anonymous

Heh, I just got rep on a really old answer - nice! :D

Good morning. I woke up at 05:30 and then had my teeth drilled into

Now I'm not allowed to drink coffee

@MechMK1 You point something more important than just someone who defend a person against his will, current society is tons of people that took away the ability to judge of the gouvernment, and took the position of a holy judge that do what ever they think is fair. Except they don't have the abilty to have objective thinking and only know a part of the story

8:36 AM

The Court of Public Opinion is Lady Justicia holding two swords.

nice

what a nice summary of this channel @AndrolGenhald

... nothing happens ...

someone joins: You're wrong

... nothing happens ...

2

Anonymous

Hahahaha.

Anonymous

The only thing that happens in here Tom is pure shit posting, you should join in :D

and btw @MechMK1: one of the big mission statements of nnC3 is that everyone is welcome. There are surely some people who put on a duck costume to be entertaining but probably for most people who do this, this is the one time of the year, where they can be themselves. where they can wear a duck costume because they want to and nobody says something about it

just getting started :P

Anonymous

Tom, you were planning on doing OSCP, right?

Anonymous

8:51 AM

Was that you? I cannot remember.

I'm looking for jobs right now and seriously who thinks anyone wants to work here?

Anonymous

huh?

Anonymous

Oh, lul.

oh, only people with glasses work here? that must be neat!

Anonymous

8:51 AM

lmfao.

yeah, OSCP is kinda on my bucket list

@TomK. People can wear duck costumes, I'm all for it. I find them funny. What I find wrong is feeling offended on behalf of duck costume wearers.

@MechMK1 you said "When they put on a duck costume, they did that to be entertaining" and that's just not true.

@TomK. You're arguing that they put on duck costumes because...?

@MechMK1 you know, duck costume wearers are so opressed they are not able to defend themself anymore

8:54 AM

I think there is some benefit in feeling offended on behalf of others, because it shows others that you care about their misfortune or about their oppression

@MechMK1 I don't know, maybe because they are furries, maybe because it's a fashion choice, maybe they have to hide their identity

@TomK. I disagree. When someone feels offended on my behalf, they don't show me that they care. They tell me how to feel.

so maybe you are capable of fending for yourself, but others might not be

can't both be true?

@TomK. Yup agree that there is benefits but hard to define when they are opressed or not. Same shit happens for every delicate subject

if people tell you they feel oppressed, there's a pretty good chance that they are

I argue that the intention of the vicarious offendee is to feel moral superiority. Not once have they asked me what I want. Them feeling offended on my behalf is about them, not me.

@TomK. I laugh at furries

8:58 AM

who are you/me in this scenario? the person who is wearing a duck costume?

then if they laught at the joke, chance are they are not

@MechMK1 why would you do that?

@MrHeliose the commenter probably had other folks in mind who weren't in the room. also the audience has ±400 people, you probably don't know if everyone is laughing

just because most of the people laugh, doesn't mean it's funny to all of the people in the room

@TomK. I could not express my opinion on furries without offending them, so I will not

so maybe try thinking about that a little longer and maybe you will change your opinion

I appreciate the thought you put into this sentence

@TomK. Did you mean me by that?

9:05 AM

@TomK. Then let them say how frustrated they are and help them if they feel offended, but don't assume they are beforehand

@MechMK1 yeah

@MrHeliose so... I have a disability. If I would do this I would have another day job. But because other people do this as my allies I can rely on their support when fighting against oppression

9:26 AM

@TomK. so you let them state about how you should feel? I know there is obvious case (like someone saying "black people are garbage"). But in this kind of context it's not that easy and doing so is just assuming people you defend oppion is your oppinion.

Anonymous

I think it's pretty important to remember that the situation of a joke between friends & a random person insulting a disabled person are entirely different.

Anonymous

I generally agree with @MechMK1 that people who walk around looking to be offended for others are doing it for no other reason than to effectively show off their political ideology and/or how much of a "good" person they are.

Anonymous

They're the kinda' people who help homeless people and then go brag about it. It's great those people help the homeless but the bragging part suggests they did it for their own benefit rather than the benefit of those homeless people.

Anonymous

TL;DR - Most people walking around acting as if they are some kind of moral authority on right & wrong are doing it for their own gain and not the "good of the world".

yo what we discussing?

Anonymous

9:31 AM

SJW Culture.

Specifically?

Anonymous

Specifically? Being offended on someone else's behalf.

Ohhhhh.

@J.J Well even with friend it's not that straightforward. I have a friend who's on a wheelchair and most of the time is more permissive than me when joking about his disability

Anonymous

@MrHeliose That's my entire point...

9:32 AM

Yeah it does get complex what we can and cannot joke about from time to time

Anonymous

It should be noted that each situation is different and so we should not use blanket statements such as "its always okay to be offended for others".

Anonymous

(Not that anyone used those words but, that's what I took from some statements above)

But comedians should exempted from it IMO.Like they should allowed to joke about everything

Anonymous

@VipulNair I don't think it's complicated at all what we can & can't joke about.

Anonymous

We should be able to make jokes about anything.

Anonymous

9:33 AM

They are jokes.

Anonymous

A joke is very different from dressing up like Hitler, walking into the middle of Berlin and screaming racist statements.

Well sure,but there are parents that have disabled kids and i feel if i had a disabled kid and loved him i would feel pretty bad about a joke.

And even they could feel about that.

@J.J Nah, sorry, but this leads to some of the BS we have right now with people like Trump making awful comments and then saying "calm down, it was a joke!"

@MrHeliose and this is also something, of course I can make fun of my disability, but you shouldn't

and if your friend is okay with it, then that's cool for your friend, but it doesn't mean that I'm okay with it or someone else

@TomK. Sure,but a lot of things/facts/opinions are very uncomfortable in life and might offend others that doesn't mean feelings will always be taken into account tho

ofc, but just because things have always been that way doesn't mean we can't change them

9:41 AM

Yeah there will always be more topics in every country where one side will always be offended or hurt.Freedom of speech can be very complex.

@TomK. That's my point: adapt to the standard of the person: You don't like joke about your disability, just show it, then if people do joke, people will help you. But it's not their job to decide if you have to feel offended or not

I am also not fond of the twitter cancel culture

TBH its just archaic practice of lynching gone internet

@VipulNair we spoke about that just before, but it's not only on internet

@MrHeliose what if I'm not there to show it? what if the person who is making the jokes is my boss?

But jokes are supposed to be offensive and uncomfortable and make us see reality in a different way.

9:47 AM

then it's kinda good if someone else is there to hop in

I kinda feel instead the person being offended should make peace with his condition rather.wouldn't that be better?

trust me, most jokes about disabilities are very played out. and I have heard all of them about mine

...

Yeah.Thats a different issue of overused jokes tho

wow.. thanks for the input. don't you think that's what people are trying?

@TomK. if you'r not here, then nothing wrong, they have the right to do joke about what ever they want if they keep it far from you.

The fact that it's your boss doesn't change anything. If your boss is too horible you can't stand against him, that's an other story

9:49 AM

We were discussing something else.weren't we?

I kinda dont know the context.I jumped in sorry

> I kinda feel instead the person being offended should make peace with his condition rather.

What do you mean by that?

@TomK. did something personal happen where someone offended you(your boss)?

no?

I just came so i didnt read older messages

@TomK. what i mean.If i had a disability i will make peace with my condition and work through it and might take a joke or two on it

@MrHeliose you don't get it. they don't have the right. no one has the right to joke about a disability of another person. I brought up my boss as an example of a power imbalance. when you say "just tell the other person that it's not okay, everything will be fine" that's just not true. sometimes you can't tell other people just because you aren't there or because you aren't in the position to tell them

@VipulNair that's great for you, maybe wait until you have a disability. It's not just one or two jokes

9:54 AM

@TomK. agree on that because workplace shouldn't have in appropriate jokes to begin with unless its their culture

if it's their culture it's a fucked up culture

@TomK. i am just saying man.When you have made true peace with a condition then nothing can faze you on it.

Victim blaming

Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially at fault for the harm that befell them. The study of victimology seeks to mitigate the prejudice against victims, and the perception that victims are in any way responsible for the actions of offenders. There is historical and current prejudice against the victims of domestic violence and sex crimes, such as the greater tendency to blame victims of rape than victims of robbery if victims and perpetrators knew each other prior to the commission of the crime. == Coining of the phrase == Psychologist...

"You just have to come to peace with your condition so we can make more jokes about your disability"

that's such a fucked up logic..

"no one has the right to joke about a disability of another person" why? ofc they have that right. They don't have the right to be mean at you because of your disability. But when you'r not here, they are not mean, they are just joking without offending you.

lolwut?

you are not making any sense right now

10:00 AM

why?

so.. for example... if yesterday, me and my friend Bob made a lot of jokes about your ugly face, that would have been alright?

ofc, cause I don't know about it

because.. you weren't there

okay, we told everybody - as a joke - that your nose was actually a fake penis transplant which you bought for 7$ off ebay

just joking of course

yes and?

also I called your mom - as a joke - to tell her, that you owed me 10.000$ and if you didn't pay I would come to their house and burn it down

nobody laughed, weirdly

but I found it hi-larious

10:02 AM

There's a fact: i'm ugly.

Do they have to remember it to me? No.
Can they joke about it? yes

some logic right there

sarcastic or you really understand my position?

@TomK. i am not victim blaming at all.

I am saying in the world you can only truly control yourself

If you choose to not be offended,then you have power over the situation

@TomK. come on hahah now you are just making stuff up to prove your point

@MrHeliose saracasm. there's an inherent contradiction if you say you don't want to be reminded but a joke is okay - which itself is a reminder.

Thats clear threat and not a joke.A joke is different than a threat

10:11 AM

@TomK. a joke without me is not a reminder

the reminder is to joke in front of me

@VipulNair but you can't choose to not be offended. or at least I wouldn't know how

@VipulNair if I said to you: from now on, choose to not be offended by stupid remarks about your parents. how would you go about doing that?

@VipulNair truem if you'r disable, joking about it is not the easiest point. Some people can, other cannot

@MrHeliose I guess you are right, that the tree that falls in the forest doesn't make a noise if no-one is there. but wouldn't you always want that people aren't mean? (also being ugly and being disabled is not the same thing)

@TomK. if you laugh over yourself then everyone else is simply laughing with you.

@VipulNair I wouldn't agree with that

and again: it's not just about joking, it's also about protecting others from threats and/or violence. offensive remarks are just the beginning.

10:16 AM

This is some buddha stuff man.I am telling you.If you want true power in a situation you got to be okay with everything and you will realise being offended is petty and gives power to the other person.

@TomK. ofcourse threats/violence is whole different issue

@TomK. avoiding the subject won't change their mind. If they find you ugly, then you'r ugly to them. Joking about it won't change this idea

Some buddha stuff? You gotta have more than that.

@TomK. you know "letting go" .

sounds like surfer wisdom to me

hahaha

10:18 AM

lol

well, I gtg

let myself go. bb

See ya.

cya

10:45 AM

btw I'm looking for something to read on internet about anything, like teamten.com/lawrence/writings

if anyone have a suggestion

Anonymous

11:39 AM

I'm sorry but saying people don't have a right to make jokes about things that you find offensive is plain stupid.

Anonymous

You, nor anyone else are the moral authority on what is & is not offensive and suggesting you are a moral authority or can be is unbelievably ridiculous.

Anonymous

Offence is totally subjective, suggesting that we should have some kind of blanket rule on offence is just idiotic.

John Zhau

BTW in real pentests, do you have a directory that you just open first most of the time? Just curious,

Anonymous

12:11 PM

Also Tom, this line is very, very disingenuous "and again: it's not just about joking, it's also about protecting others from threats and/or violence. offensive remarks are just the beginning." you are almost suggesting that all jokes lead to violence. That suggestion is simply just not true.

Anonymous

And honestly, to suggest that is true is quite a dangerous statement to make. Of course, you never explicitly said that to be the case but you more or less implied it with the "it's also about protecting others..."

You have the right to make a joke. People have the right to be offended by it. If you keep joking with these people the same way, then you're just a d-bag

Anonymous

Yes, I agree I have a right to make a joke and I agree people have a right to be offended by it.

Doesn't make anyone right or wrong

Anonymous

What I disagree with is the idea that being offended on behalf of someone else is about anything more than your own ego.

Anonymous

12:19 PM

And I also disagree with the idea that jokes should be taken as much more than jokes. And I also disagree with the idea that we should start censoring jokes & media because someone might be offended.

Yeah, the amount of PC-ness in the media is being detrimental

Though, they probably need to have some ground rules because they are facing the world publicly.

BTW, being offended "for someone else" is non-sensical. Either you are offended yourself (because you have a friend to whom the joke would be mean), or you aren't offended. You cannot make someone feel offended by something you just heard.

But I guess I'm being pedantic now.

Anonymous

@M'vy The problem is M'vy, people do try and make others feel offended for something they found offensive and it's hugely damaging to social dynamics.

Anonymous

Also M'vy about the ground rules; who makes them? If someone is going to make ground rules, who is going to do that? And, how are they going to make them? And finally, who is going to oversee the person overseeing the person who makes the ground rules?

Anonymous

Because it's clear that society is unable to make those ground rules, they are trying to do that now and look how it's going? It's a mess, utter mess and it doesn't work.

Anonymous

And I really dislike the idea of the government being the ones to make these ground rules cough Canada.

1:10 PM

Society is about making these rules actually. It's about cooperating with each other. Not to say it's easy, and we've been at it since the human came to Earth and it's no were near good enough. It's dynamic, it's shifting and there is no absolute "right" or "wrong" but the one you decide to define.

Anonymous

2:54 PM

Ever since I started studying for the OSCE I have had a headache every day.

Anonymous

Coincidence? I think not!

do you find OSCE worth it?

(except headache part)

Anonymous

I've not done it yet, lol. So I cannot comment on whether I find it "worth it".

Anonymous

But I struggle to study outside of structured format so courses/exams provide me a structured format for study.

I mean the training part (or you study on your own)

Anonymous

3:03 PM

Well, I also don't have the official material yet.

Anonymous

I am preparing to buy the official material since there is a lot of stuff you should know before buying the material.

oh ok, i'll ask again in a month or 2 then :D
I'm always scare to buy this kind of stuff... what if it's knowledge I already have?

Conor Mancone

3:44 PM

I apparently missed out on the discussion about offensive jokes and I don't plan on reviving it, but I do have to say this:

@TomK. hi-larious is how I always (mentally) hyphenate that word when I want to emphasize that something is really funny. By simple virtue of doing this in your writing, I give you +100 Conor points (which have no value real, fictional, or implied)

Anonymous

3:57 PM

@MrHeliose Good thing with OSCE; there is an easy way of telling if it's knowledge you already have.

Anonymous

Try the registration challenge (fc4.me) if you cannot do it on your own without hints chances are the OSCE is filled with content you don't know :D

4:26 PM

well in 10min I got the registration code lol

still need to get the secret key

4:54 PM

it took me time to find it was assembly lol but I did it

But I don't really get the point of this kind of test, I mean I know how to read unobfuscated js, b64, but it's not really related to security

Conor Mancone

5:36 PM

@J.J Is that website supposed to refuse to connect, or is it not for the USA or something?

Oh, you linked to https and it is http only