The DMZ

Flyk

11:01

what the hell is x509

David Freitag

X.509

In cryptography, X.509 is an ITU-T standard for a public key infrastructure (PKI) and Privilege Management Infrastructure (PMI). X.509 specifies, amongst other things, standard formats for public key certificates, certificate revocation lists, attribute certificates, and a certification path validation algorithm. == History and usage == X.509 was initially issued on July 3, 1988 and was begun in association with the X.500 standard. It assumes a strict hierarchical system of certificate authorities (CAs) for issuing the certificates. This contrasts with web of trust models, like PGP, where anyone...

Flyk

thanks for that

so helpful

much glad

David Freitag

@Flyk Well you made the mistake of not pinging @ThomasPornin when asking about x509.

Flyk

maybe if he's so good at it, he could write the tag wiki

Rоry McCune

@Flyk ya know that's what's needed here, a system of allocating tag-wiki entries to people to manage

Flyk

11:03

I'll tell you what is needed here

far more reputation for doing maintenance tasks

do you think that a tag like protection is A LITTLE BIT REDUNDANT AND AMBIGUOUS on a site about information security

Rоry McCune

@Flyk yeah good point

Flyk

in fact, if I list all the tags I don't like, it will waste my entire day

time to switch to plan g

that part where you're operating in a taxonomy frame of mind and randomly google things like "snot"

before going EW WHAT AM I EVEN DOING

David Freitag

@Flyk Nope, never been there.

Flyk

oh

yeah I'd expect you never have been

Rory Alsop

@Flyk Drive barefoot. Put slippers on to go into the shop. Then take them off to drive home again.

David Freitag

11:11

@Flyk That's because I never plan ahead. It means I never get to plan g.

Flyk

@RoryAlsop no, that would put my feet in context with the footwell of my car

they'd be dirty by the time I got out and then I'd end up walking that through my house

David Freitag

@Flyk No, you would get the inside of your slippers dirty.

Flyk

I don't think consumer-protection needs to be alive

@DavidFreitag no that's not how the universe works

David Freitag

@Flyk If you put your slippers back on before entering your house....?

Flyk

STOP BEING SO WRONG YOU'RE HURTING ME

2

David Freitag

11:17

I take pride in causing you pain.

Flyk

now that I know the pain you cause is intentional that completely changes the rules of engagement

Rory Alsop

Lol - I love driving barefoot. Although I'm not as extreme as one of the Lotus guys I used to race with. He would never wear shoes. Even if the track was covered in snow and ice. He said he was ex-SAS and thought he was incredibly hard.

@Flyk uh oh - I sense escalation

Flyk

it's only escalation in that a minute ago the plane was heading towards the tower and now the tower is collapsing

you have a end-user

you're all end users

meant in the most insulting way possible

Rоry McCune

@Flyk s/ a / an /

:op

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune lol

Just realised your smiley could be usefully re-used as :opSec

Rоry McCune

11:20

@RoryAlsop in a kind of LOL OpSec way... yeah that would be apposite

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune exactly

Flyk

@RоryMcCune actually the word "tag" is implied but removed by the formatting

so... no

must be such a hard life being so wrong all the time

David Freitag

@Flyk Indeed it must.

Rоry McCune

@Flyk nice try, but no, afraid what's there doesn't mention "tag" and implicit wording doesn't count for grammar :op

Flyk

@RоryMcCune fortunately, the tag formatting removes the need for your so called grammar, the outline and clickability of the tag indicates it's a tag

David Freitag

11:23

@Flyk Yes, but the outline and clickability of your face does not indicate that it is a face.

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag Ceci n'est pas une tag

:-)

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Le gateau est un mensonge.

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag lovely

I mean: L'Ovely

never realised mensonge meant that

@Flyk I browsed. I saw your Dec 2014 question. I lol'ed :-)

actually, the past tense of lol should be lol

hmmmm

Flyk

my december 2014 question?

Windows Phone is simultaneously my favorite and least favorite phone OS

Cortana is my favorite digital personal assistant thingy

Rory Alsop

@Flyk yup - the deleted one

David Freitag

11:38

@RoryAlsop That explains why I can't find it...

Flyk

I don't even know what that is

Rory Alsop

@Flyk I don't like digital personal assistants

@Flyk you'll find it on your profile

Flyk

god, it must be so hard for you to just link it

Rory Alsop

not that I was looking to see if you had any posts that deserved a bounty or anything

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Me either, I only use Google Now to check the weather.

Rory Alsop

11:39

@Flyk I'm out of that window now

Flyk

ctrl+shift+t

Rory Alsop

security.stackexchange.com/questions/76830/delicious-moist-cake

satisfied?

@Flyk what does ctrl+shift+t do?

Flyk

I thought that was appropriately tagged

open the last closed tab in chrome

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop You should get a screenshot so us plebs can see.

Rory Alsop

@Flyk nvm - just tried it. Cool - thanks

I lernded a new thing today

Flyk

11:40

you randomly keystroked something you were advised to do on the internet?

or am I not a threat or something

that could have literally done anything and you just randomly did it

Rory Alsop

@Flyk I assessed the risk, and then dud it

weren't random

@Flyk not currently, I think

Flyk

if only I knew enough to actually be dangerous

Rory Alsop

I don't think I have annoyed you :-)

And I understand pyro risk management

Flyk

that new bear is at it again, rejecting my posts as "attempt to deface"

security.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/58285

Rory Alsop

@Flyk I want that to be "randomly keystruck"

Flyk

11:43

going to deface him soon

should he be banned network wide for the picture in his profile?

because if not I have some extremely hot but NSFW firemen I want to share

Rory Alsop

@Flyk I would have probably added JavaScript rather than replaced Flash with JavaScript - that is where the defacing comes from, I guess. But to be honest, it's not really a substantial edit...

@Flyk firemen meaning men, or the more generic "men and women firefighters?"

@Flyk what's his profile?

raz

@RoryAlsop She didn't replace Flash, she added JavaScript

Flyk

@RoryAlsop I didn't remove Flash, and the edit was to fix the spelling mistake in the top part

Rory Alsop

Oh - yep, I see that now - sorry...old browser is old

raz

All I see is a white bird for his profile picture

Rory Alsop

11:45

In that case I have no problem with your edit, other than it is a bit minor

Flyk

@RoryAlsop oh it looks like it has updated now

it was the tux drinking from a windows carton but was defaced with a penis

Rory Alsop

Oh - him. Yes - I corrected it network wide

(Well, I corrected the avatar, and the CM's I called sorted the profile picture)

raz

I'm shocked at how quickly he repped up

Flyk

and yet I get banned for a week for telling the CMs to do their job

the irony

@raz I'm sure he's either that deleted user he asked about on meta or has a group of socks

Rory Alsop

@raz yeah. Understands rep-trains is my guess.

Flyk

11:47

all of his posts are sensationalist as well

Rory Alsop

yup

David Freitag

@Flyk lolwut?

Flyk

I'm not sure if I can describe it better than I have already

Rory Alsop

@Flyk is okay - he's banned for a year on SE (or SO...one of them)

@Flyk possibly depends a bit on how you do it :-P

Flyk

@RoryAlsop I think it was something like "I'm sick of your fucking incompetent moderators kicking me for no reason other than their own shits and giggles so fucking do something before I leave a StackExchange sized hole in the universe"

obviously they missed the context that I am the overlord of my own universe and that all the above meant was that I'd leave

raz

11:50

@Flyk I must have missed that part

Flyk

but then I got called a troll and banned

which is just wrong, I'm not a troll, a troll wouldn't care if they were hurting the people they were trolling

@raz well, I notice everything

Rоry McCune

buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/… <-- OpSec advice from Buzzfeed, whatever next..

David Freitag

I'm not looking forward to going to work today to tell my boss that a $500 prototype went up in smoke.

Arperum

@DavidFreitag What did you do?

raz

@DavidFreitag It's only $500

David Freitag

11:54

@Arperum Powered it on

Then the active ingredient leaked out all over my apartment

@raz That isn't really the point though

Flyk

@RоryMcCune Buzzfeed, the high quality providers of opsec knowledge

Rоry McCune

@Flyk I would not have thought it from them, but it is an interesting technique

Flyk

while simultaneously breaking your opsec by getting you to sign up to an insecure mailing list using an insecure protocol via an insecure protocol

all that super secret information they slurp

raz

@DavidFreitag Well don't bring beer around electronics, and you'll be fine

Flyk

such as my super secret email address [email protected]

o

Rory Alsop

11:56

@Flyk I may heve been just a smidgen more polite...

David Freitag

@Flyk Signed up for all the prons

Rory Alsop

@Flyk Solipsisms are my favourite concept

David Freitag

@raz What sort of engineer do I look like? Never waste beer.

Flyk

@RoryAlsop maybe, in all honesty I give as much respect as I receive

Rory Alsop

Although I prefer the multiperson pantheistic solipsism proposed by Heinlein

Flyk

11:57

I will not waste my kindness on people who do not deserve it

Rory Alsop

@Flyk fair enough

Flyk

now if TimPost had been the person I was speaking to

that would have been super kindness

I wonder if anybody else will notice what I'm doing before it's too late

Rоry McCune

@Flyk taking over the world?

Flyk

well that's a background task, more of a long game

I was talking about today specifically

Rоry McCune

@Flyk getting a tag wiki editor badge?

Rory Alsop

12:00

@Flyk erm...talking with us here in a pleasant manner?

Flyk

@RоryMcCune getting the tag wiki editor badge

that nobody on this site has yet

Rоry McCune

@Flyk ahh

Rory Alsop

@Flyk good plan, all I'd suggest is that you don't do really minor edits

are you close to it?

Flyk

@RoryAlsop no I started today

@RoryAlsop I'm primarily focusing on tags without wikis, therefore there is no such thing as "minor"

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop out of curiousity, 'cause I've noticed this in a number of areas like question or answer edits as well, there seems to be a discouragement on small edits, how come? I'd have thought that any edit that's not incorrect would be a good one..

Flyk

12:04

@RоryMcCune there's a handful of reasons

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune It's mostly on posts - it bumps things to the front, sometimes for unnecessary reasons

Flyk

primarily it's because of the "not worth my time" problem, in which established users feel it's not worth their time

low rep users push an edit into a queue which requires somebody else's effort

the second problem is the way SE works, activity bumps to the front page

Rory Alsop

For wiki edits it isn't such a big deal, but the idea is that if you are going to add a single word, wouldn't your time be better spent doing a bigger edit

Flyk

this is the same reason that people discourage editing old content

Rory Alsop

yeah - what @Flyk said

Flyk

12:05

which results in sites that don't keep themselves clean eventually devolving into being full of crap that nobody wants to edit

and when people come along to edit it they get shouted at for filling the front page with posts from 2009

Rоry McCune

yeah with the bumping thing you'd think an idea would be to have a "minor edit" button which stopped that happening..

Rory Alsop

but not just established users - also if the editing user has that time why not find something that needs a bigger edit

Rоry McCune

but I see now.. :)

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune oh - totally this. It has been requested many times

Flyk

@RoryAlsop I counter this argument with "I work from post 0 forwards, your method is illogical and results in posts being missed"

Rory Alsop

12:06

For the SOund Design merge, three of us racked up over 2000 edits, popped them in a scheduler and Se devs actioned them specifically so the front page was not impacted

Flyk

if you're going to miss posts for any reason, you might as well not bother at all

Rory Alsop

@Flyk that's a very valid point

Flyk

just like if you're goign to edit a question, edit all of the answers where needed as well

because it's one bump

also, if you're in the post, flag all the obsolete comments

because THEN THAT POST IS 100% AWESOME

or, instead, just sit around in chat whining about somebody actually doing the shit job that nobody else wants to do until the person who has put their time and effort into cleaning up the site and increasing the overall value of your content becomes demotivated

and be part of the problem instead of part of the solution

which is what normally happens

and yes, I will edit a post and change one letter to a capital letter and add a couple of line breaks if that's all a post needs

it's irrelevant that it's a minor edit if the edit improves the post

like a lot of @AviD's old posts use single line breaks instead of paragraphs

who would even vote somebody that did that into a position of power is beyond me

@mods can we seriously ban this user already?

security.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/58296

security.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/58295

David Freitag

it only takes one reject vote?

That's hardly democratic.

Flyk

no but he's rejecting everything I submit where he can

raz

12:16

he's rejected every single one

Flyk

that's abuse of the system

he's not reviewing, he's using the platform to attack

raz

All of the edits are adding completely new content to tags.

His reason doesn't make any sense, he's just pissed that @Flyk rep-trained over him

Rory Alsop

If others approve, at some point it will blcok him from being able to review

JukEboX

Morning Gang

@DavidFreitag \o/

David Freitag

o/

JukEboX

12:17

Morning @Flyk

Morning @RoryAlsop

Rory Alsop

@Flyk Is this still that same user? Again, with this browser it doesn't show who has rejected

Flyk

@JukEboX salut

JukEboX

Morning @raz

Flyk

@RoryAlsop yes

Rory Alsop

@JukEboX afternoon

JukEboX

12:18

What's shaking this morning?

Flyk

same user who didn't like me posting a non-sensationalist answer to his sock puppet's question

David Freitag

@Flyk link?

raz

@JukEboX morning

JukEboX

Quick question. Do we have a SE for questions about legal/ownership of web assets?

Flyk

@JukEboX Legal advise is something SE doesn't do

Because we're not lawyers, even if we say we are, you can't use that as any grounds for what we say being a good idea

JukEboX

12:20

@Flyk I am not looking for advice

Flyk

If you're not looking for advice, any interaction with SE will be completely pointless

JukEboX

@Flyk Ok thanks.

Flyk

lol

Rory Alsop

Well - we sort of do now, as there is a Law.SE

Flyk

well, stuff changes over the course of the years

it's only the other day that I realized since I left Araqde, they're no longer the #3 site on the network

not that I'm sure if there is a correlation between those two things

JukEboX

12:24

@RoryAlsop I am just asking because I am about to stop supporting a web system I built and I am wondering what is my property and what is the property of the company that paid me to build it.

M'vy

@JukEboX Freelance or employee ?

Flyk

@JukEboX if the company paid you to built it, they own it

unless you agreed otherwise in advance

(ie: "we will provide you this service... bla bla of some really nice CMS I wrote while in bed one day")

Rory Alsop

@JukEboX well - I think that would be acceptable on Law

M'vy

If you were employed, you probably have paternity rights, but no exploitation copyrights etc... If Freelance, could be different depending on the agreement / contract.

Arperum

@Flyk There probably is.

JukEboX

12:27

@M'vy Freelance

Flyk

@Arperum it would be awfully arrogant to assume, though

raz

@JukEboX Did you use your money or contract money to purchase the equipment/software?

JukEboX

@Flyk there is nothing in writing of if I provide the server or if it was for them but all the domain registration and hosting is under my name

@raz software and computers to build the system is all mine and hosting and domain I paid for and are registered to me

raz

@JukEboX And you were never reimbursed in any way for that?

M'vy

What did they paid you for ?

raz

12:29

^^

Flyk

@JukEboX well if you have nothing at all in writing, then (a) seriously, sort your shit out, and (b) provide them formal written notification of at least four weeks in advance that you're no longer supporting the service, that you're currently hosting and whatever, and that they've got four weeks to arrange the moving and rehosting

with all of your contact details, etc

and then after four weeks, kill it

ensure that you mention that if you kill it before they contact you that you will not be held responsible for the data, and that it will be gone

Arperum

@Flyk You did a lot of stuff, so it might be correct. Or at least helped speeding the downfall.

JukEboX

@M'vy they paid me to build it for them to use yes. I paid for hosting and domain because they are using space on my hosting that I have all my other sites. I started thislike 5 years ago when I was still in school

Flyk

if they contact you within that timeframe, they'll likely want an extension, so sting them for lots of monies

JukEboX

@Flyk That is what I was thinking and I was still in college when I started building it so I didn't get anything in writing. I was thinking of giving them 60 days.

Flyk

12:31

60 is more than fair

basically long enough for you to fulfill the requirements of termination of service as the provider

JukEboX

Since everything is registered to me I have the right to disable it if I wanted.

Flyk

well, no

that's a dark grey area

if they've paid you for a service, you can't just turn it off

JukEboX

After talking to a lawyer as far as I understand the system is my property since I coded it and it was all my work but the database is their property or the contents there of

M'vy

So you don't have any terms of service or whatever ?

JukEboX

I can turn it off after the domain registration expires

Flyk

12:32

just because you have nothing in writing doesn't mean anything, in fact it actually hurts you a lot

JukEboX

Since I don't want to renew it

raz

Yeah I like @Flyk's notion with 60 days notice.

Flyk

since you haven't made any agreements to the variations in standard terms, provision of responsibility for the service, etc

raz

@JukEboX I would go back and collect any and all email about the setup of the project.

Flyk

@JukEboX anything involving the unavailability of their site is best served with a lengthy notification of termination of services

raz

12:33

Any communication at all during the that time.

JukEboX

@raz there are only a few and that is how things work or dont' work. Everything was face to face

Flyk

otherwise they'll just lawyer up and sue you for loss of business or whatever

(if you're lucky)

any content that they've paid you for is technically their content unless it was provided as a service rather than a product

which is a distinction that you probably didn't make

M'vy

@flyk even if it's a product, you could sell exploitation rights only

Flyk

@M'vy which he hasn't got any paper work confirming

M'vy

@Flyk seems like they don't have one either.

Flyk

12:36

@M'vy I imagine they've got more money and motivation to fight about it, though

M'vy

So it's complicated I guess

@Flyk that's for sure

JukEboX

@M'vy @Flyk yes

M'vy

Maybe there are precedent cases. You should probably look it up

Flyk

oh

Windows Phone 10 just... crashed?

David Freitag

I am severely let down by GTA V.

JukEboX

12:38

@M'vy I have been looking trying to get some ideas

@DavidFreitag YOU KIDDING. It's everything GTA should be!

Flyk

GTA is such a conflict

how can playing a game where you can interact with hookers even be justifyable

Simon

@DavidFreitag pls dovid it came out like 179 years ago.

Flyk

but how can you not appreciate an open world sandbox of that size

David Freitag

@Simon Not for PC it didn't.

@Flyk What is wrong with a little one-on-one with a hooker?

Flyk

and Trevor made my skin crawl while simultaneously appeasing me with gratuitous fire

while I don't like the language towards women, I have no problem with setting fire to a house full of people

what is wrong with my moral compass

JukEboX

12:42

@Flyk @M'vy this is pretty helpful orbitmedia.com/blog/website-terminology

David Freitag

@JukEboX I love how HTML/CSS/Javascript isn't under "source code"

Flyk

@Simon aren't you going to do something about the problem you're experiencing?

Simon

?

Flyk

the 539 problem

Simon

wat

Flyk

12:46

wat

I just spelled it out for you, what more do you need?

David Freitag

wat

JukEboX

@DavidFreitag apparently that is actually my code

Rory Alsop

@Flyk I got the full bundle, mostly because I like driving games, but every single GTA appears to be crap. Can't enjoy the driving bit, and random wanton violence just doesn't push my buttons

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop That sort of thing is amusing, but the cops in that game are particularly frisky.

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag frisky? Meaning they try to frisk you?

JukEboX

12:54

@DavidFreitag yea just gotta be quick and nimble

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Yes, with bullets.

@JukEboX Quick and nimble and intoxicated are two things that generally don't mix well

JukEboX

LOL

Flyk

@RoryAlsop basically play to see how many police I can kill before dying

JukEboX

I have a feeling I should get a hold of legal zoom about this stuff

David Freitag

hackaday.com/2015/08/12/…

Flyk

12:56

The game was entirely saved by the ability to design my own avatar in GTA Online

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag naah - I'll stick to driving games on my Playstations, Shooting games on my PC's, and the other games on my other consoles

Flyk

otherwise I'd have played it like twice and then never again

the driving is crap

the shooting is crap

the story is crap

Simon

u crap

David Freitag

The controls are crap

Flyk

the characters are the sort of people I'd willingly go to prison just to get them out of the gene pool

David Freitag

12:57

I'm just glad I bought it when it was on sale for $30

Simon

I'm just glad that I don't game anymore.

Flyk

but nothing is quite as fun as jumping out of a burning helicopter that you've just crashed into a massive street fight and then gunning everybody who survived the explosion down

only to receive some of the sickest most disgusting death threats over voice comms to remind you that your fun to pushed 8 emo kids to suicide

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag I think I got the full bundle minus the latest one for £25

Simon

@Flyk pls leave emo kids alone

Flyk

I wish my hair was emo so it would cut itself

Rory Alsop

12:59

@Simon hahahahaha

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