The DMZ

Flyk

16:00

@AviD I am so joking

AviD

I happen to be the best at what I do. And what I do is very nice. Even if not graphically pleasing.

Ohnana

sec focuses on sec. dev focuses on dev. they work together and critique each other

Flyk

portfolio link

AviD

@Ohnana strong disagree

@Flyk careers.so/avid

Flyk

@AviD sounds too much like using stack exchange

Ohnana

16:01

@AviD justify?

i assume both are not morons and can work in a team without being pants-on-head or studbborn

AviD

@Ohnana sec is part of dev. Just as dev need to focus on UX, and performance, and maintainability, and a thousand other concerns, security is one of them.

a big one, surely, or even a meta-set of concerns. But it is dev's responsibility.

sec people are there to support and guide and help fill in gaps.

Flyk

@AviD as a ball park figure, for 3 months of ~~dev~~ mixed discipline as a freelancer how much would you charge?

AviD

@Flyk depends for what

but hypothetically

3 months, full time, building out a website - gimme a second

though I usually would not price per month

Flyk

build something in .net, some server admin/configuration, blah

AviD

but per project

Flyk

16:03

well, ballpark, this isn't a quote

I just need to know so I can evaluate how stupid my friend is being

AviD

35-40K usd, probably

problem is, 3 months of dev never takes 3 months

Flyk

I'm not going to give him money without owning at least half of his company, and I'm not owning a company that is going to get hacked in the week it goes up

Ohnana

@AviD it is. but with security, it's the details and the little things. Devs have enough work and bullshit, and I think they'd benefit from having a work buddy who understands these things

Flyk

@AviD sure, it'll probably take a year

AviD

@Ohnana "work buddy", well put

Flyk

16:04

@AviD that's not a bad salary, do people actually pay you that?

AviD

of course it also depends on the type of company, the technology depth, culture, etc etc

Flyk

oh right, freelancing

Ohnana

@AviD yeah, ideally the sec person would have dev experience and help write the code and stuff

Flyk

ignore last

AviD

that ^ was for @Ohnana

Ohnana

16:05

wut

AviD

37 secs ago, by AviD

of course it also depends on the type of company, the technology depth, culture, etc etc

it gets confusing when there are 2 parallel conversations, of which I am part of both

I should be in neither.

Flyk

lack of multitasking ability

noted

AviD

nobody gives a damn what I say anyway

@Flyk I prefer focus

Ohnana

@AviD I see

AviD

though in this case, it wasnt my abilitiy, it was chat ambiguity

Flyk

16:07

@AviD based on careers.so I'm guessing you'd very much require a Windows based server with IIS/ASP rather than a Linux server with PHP(LOL)

AviD

@Flyk heh, yeah

you need to go to careers.so for that, you havent caught that from me here?

Flyk

I would likely need some kind of graphics designer as well

AviD

though I would pedant that into "ASP.NET" instead of "ASP"

@Flyk yeah, I suck at that.

Flyk

so lol, four figures, now I'll go back and say "yeah you basically need €150k to make this work"

AviD

halfway decent at UX, but not the graphical design part

Ohnana

16:08

@Flyk don't forget hosting and rackspace!

AviD

@Flyk maybe he wants to do it himself?

Flyk

@AviD looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

AviD

@Ohnana startups can typically get decently cheap/free cloud hosting.

Flyk

@Ohnana meh, I can provision a server on my vm host

AviD

@Flyk I take from this that he doesnt write code himself...

Flyk

16:09

that's literally the easiest part

AviD

@Flyk but there is still always some cost involved.

Flyk

@AviD he can take apart cars, he struggles to turn a pc on

AviD

even if its easy.

@Flyk heh. Just the guy you want designed secure web servers for you.

Flyk

@AviD the cost in this case would be absorbed by the free capacity on said host, though

Simon

You're an absorber.

Flyk

16:10

that doesn't even make sense

go back to playing with your penis while thinking about your TB-3

Simon

pls

Flyk

right, you're already doing that

/facedesk

AviD

@Flyk doesnt mean there is none.

Flyk

@AviD sure, but that's not really an expense I'm considering at this point

AviD

@Simon While I of course do enjoy this lowbrow humor, and tend to partake in it myself (okay hell I'll admit I practically invented that one), we are refraining from such humor during the moratorium.

@Flyk but he should be.

it should appear in the business plan regardless.

even if it gets summed out in the end, in case any circumstances change.

Flyk

16:13

oh, this is me fleshing out his business plan because he doesn't get it

I'm already at the point where it will basically take him the next several years to break even on the initial investment

AviD

even more so, he should get that that is an expense he needs to consider

even if you are covering his butte for him.

Flyk

and I really don't have 150k to blow on some side project

David Freitag

@Adnan-Adi Hehm well I got what was left after customs stole a bunch ;]

Flyk

I do, however, now have enough solid information and educated guesses to talk him out of him making it my fault that his business idea didn't take off

and for me to have the conversation without being guilt tripped

AviD

just FYI, it is definitely possible to find cheaper devs. especially the kind that will give you a monthly rate.

Flyk

16:18

I wonder if there is like a "careers.so" for "I will make music for your games if you pay me"

@AviD meh, cheap isn't better

AviD

of course, if you think working with professionals is expensive, you should see what working with amateurs is like.

@Flyk exactly.

just if he throws it up at you "ohh but I have 3 Indians that will work for 16$ a month!"

I'm not being racist here, that is pretty much a line I've heard used.

David Freitag

@AviD From experience, that is a terrible idea.

AviD

@DavidFreitag of course it is.

Ohnana

"yes but are they smart and dependable"

AviD

1 min ago, by AviD

of course, if you think working with professionals is expensive, you should see what working with amateurs is like.

David Freitag

16:20

@AviD The problem is when they meed the President/CEO/CIO at a conf somewhere and sell themselves as professionals.

AviD

@DavidFreitag yeah

PROTIP: A professional will price it for a working piece of software. Not manhours or manmonth.

Unless it is by definition defined as completely speculative.

Flyk

cool, chrome just wet itself

David Freitag

Two years later the software is so late you decide to pull the source and finish it yourself. Only to find that what they have created is not "software" but a textual representation of satan himself.

AviD

in which case, its a sucky project.

@DavidFreitag heh. and usually a sucky representation at that.

Flyk

@AviD guy works with cars, I will just give him the analogy of "that would be like letting chell [his girlfriend] work on your car"

AviD

16:23

heh nice

Flyk

not that she's a girl, more like she struggles pointing out the correct end of a spoon, let alone a screwdriver

no sexism at all

David Freitag

@Flyk I don't think I could date someone like that..

Flyk

he's always happy, I suspect she has talents elsewhere

David Freitag

I'm not entirely sure that would be enough for me. Maybe he feels powerful because he thinks he is so much more intelligent than she is.

Flyk

who knows, the psychology of men is something that's always eluded me

the real question is, would @AviD be willing to sign one of my non-disclosure agreements

Ohnana

16:36

@Flyk is that a proposition?

David Freitag

Why would you want tigger to sign an NDA?

Ohnana

"hey baby, i got an NDA for ya..."

AviD

@Flyk I didnt assume

Flyk

my super legally enforceable unless you run away into <list of countries>, in which case you're purely in hit man territory and the nda wouldn't even matter anyway

AviD

@Flyk we've already agreed, s/men/assholes/

@Flyk likely, if there is nothing onerous

I've signed plenty

very few I've regretted

now THERE is a story, but I cant tell you

because NDA

which is really the only reason I regret it

Flyk

16:38

the irony is, I've breached every NDA I've ever signed

AviD

@Flyk yeah, I've found that NDAs are usually not enforcable, unless you could have enforced it anyway.

I've stopped asking for them, but clients still sometimes want

@Flyk uhhh

Flyk

I know

Simon

@Flyk To the dungeon!

Flyk

they were all pointless NDAs anyway, for computer games

AviD

most often the biggest use of NDA is so that everybody else doesnt know how clueless he is

that's the biggest secret

even though everybody already knows

("he" is not referring to your friend, just in general)

Flyk

16:41

Hackers wasn't as good as I remember it to be

I might have been high last time

AviD

'course not, its dated

oh yeah, and its sucky

Flyk

Hackers 2 isn't very good either

AviD

shame they never made a sequel to Hackers, though.

Flyk

since Kevin Mitnick wasn't really a hacker, more into social engineering

asking for a password and then being given it is not hacking

that definition of hacking is also not hacking

cracking? no?

and Hackers 3 seems to be a piss take of Microsoft

I am just imagining that it's about Google

Simon

Hacking is such a shitty term anyway.

Ohnana

16:46

@Simon the cringe is real

"I GOT HACKED"

Flyk

...with an axe

Ohnana

aka your mouse had a bit of dirt on the bottom so it wiggled wrong

Flyk

my floating head is typing this

Simon

@Ohnana Haha, yeah.

AviD

I think we should all start using that as an excuse for everything.

Flyk

16:48

@AviD disagreed with me, I must have been hacked

AviD

COP: "Why were you speeding?"
EVERYONE: " I was hacked!"

Flyk

@Simon said something clever, I must have been hacked

Simon

pls

Flyk

@RoryAlsop didn't age again, I must have been hacked

AviD

Teacher: "Were you copying on the test?"
Student: "I was hacked!"

"Did you cheat on me??"
"I was hacked!!"

Flyk

16:49

No phone signal? Hacked

Ohnana

"MY COMPUTER POPPED UP A BOX SAYING MY BATTERY WAS LOW HAXHAXHAX"

Flyk

PC didn't boot? Hacked

Microwave exploded when you put a metal object in it? Hacked

Ohnana

Garrys Mod '' HAX '' By DasBoShitt

►

Flyk

Car didn't start? Hacked

AviD

"I just drove my car straight through the show window into the Walmart. I was hacked!"

Flyk

16:50

Join chat? Hacked

Leave chat? Hacked

Blown up by ISIS? Hacked

Girl turns you down? Hacked

Boy turns you down also? Double hacked

AviD

Somebody needs to remaster "But I was high" into "But I was hacked"

Simon

Lads, I think we got the idea.

Flyk

Kalina starred in chat? Hacked

Simon understood something? Hacked

AviD

Afroman - Because I Got High

►

replace that with "because I was hacked"

would be a hit at Defcon

Simon

I wanted to point out how your lyrics were wrong but I decided that donuts have feelings too.

Ohnana

16:52

@Flyk tfw

AviD

@Simon ?

Simon

"But I was high"

AviD

ahh, "but" -> "because". fair.

regardless, my point still stands

Flyk

@Ohnana engels?

raz

17:07

@Xander Imposter!

0

A: Is there a best practice to handle vulnerability scanning attempts?

You shouldn't worry with all those bots. Just continue watching porn in the server closet until everything clears up.

Ohnana

17:26

@raz wtf

David Freitag

0

A: Do processors need to be hardened against vibration?

Well, yes and no. The most important feature for modern space-bound CPUs (aside from 100% reliability) is radiation hardening. Radiation hardening is considered at every step of the design process from the materials used to the configuration of the transistors in each internal circuit. These chip...

Let me know if something should be changed.

Flyk

17:55

@DavidFreitag everything

start by clicking on the "delete" link

Kisunminttu

I have two options: do some schoolwork OR watch Breaking Bad se1ep1 (never seen the show)

Flyk

@Kisunminttu school work

Ohnana

@Kisunminttu schoolwork

Flyk

the first season of breaking bad needs to be watched as a binge

David Freitag

@Kisunminttu I would say if the school work is even remotely urgent do that instead.

Kisunminttu

17:57

@Flyk You're right.

Ohnana

then watch tv with no guilt

David Freitag

@Flyk s/first season/entire show

Flyk

it's very very slow and doesn't really kick off until season 2

Kisunminttu

@Ohnana That will never happen. I always have more pressing matters.

Flyk

most people get bored of Breaking Bad because of how tedious season 1 is

Simon

17:58

troo

David Freitag

I never found breaking bad to be that good of a show. More of a timekill

Kisunminttu

@Flyk Good to know, cheers

Flyk

@DavidFreitag the last couple of seasons are pretty good

the rest of it is above average though

"not deserving of the hype", until the last couple of seasons

David Freitag

@Flyk True, but even then it doesn't come close to my top 10 shows

Flyk

but tbh, with the hype generated over Breaking Bad, it would have had to have surpassed an alien invasion or the proof of god

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