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12:00
@kalina No.
@kalina I was in another tab - sorry :-)
@kalina BTW why was I on that list..?
@AviD that would be le chat
/Simon
@RoryAlsop is that french for "I ran over a cat"?
no its french for I hate french
12:15
@Stefan You're done, mate.
@Adnan Did you ban Stefan? ^^
#BanStefan
11
#DontBanStefan
Thats very rude! :'(
#UseHashTags
#hastagabuse
12:22
#HashtagFTW
@stefan sorry stefan
#BestChat
Not accepted #BanMZeinstra
@Stefan That's very rude! :'(
No!
12:24
ugh. Ban all you annoying kids.
But not the little dog.
0_0
okay, fixing it
This room was placed in timeout for 10 seconds; the topic of this room is "The first breach costs you an arm...." - conversation should be limited to that topic.
right - thanks for your patience
Please retain the proper decorum.
thank you @AviD
12:25
and eh. Not what I expected coming back from dominating orcs ;)
Can i have the reason why i just got kicked?
@JourneymanGeek what game?
@AviD: Shadows of Mordor.
good?
@Stefan you and @MZeinstra need to not annoy the locals!
12:26
Its a blast ;p
locals?
If you come in and upset the community, you will get kicked
I didnt upset anyone
Heck, I paid retail for it.
noone got kicked
12:26
I never pay retail for games.
I got kicked
please now listen to what I and others have been telling you, and behave
I timeouted the whole room.
for 1min...
@JourneymanGeek ahh. yeah I'm not doing that then.
12:27
Why did I just got kicked for 1 minute?
@AviD: Worth a sale purchase, especially with the season pass. It kinda ignores huge chunks of LOTR canon, but its probably a better AC style game than AC according to many reviewers. And the nemesis system somehow turns a randomly generated mook into someone you bother hunting down and killing (and Boy was I pissed when my nemesis at the time got himself killed by suicide by big stompy beast)
I dont understand half the things you just said.
but I was never into LOTR, like, at all.
@AviD: letme rephrase that. Much sneekyness and stabbyness.
@RоryMcCune because otherwise I'd have been obviously victimising
@kalina ahh I C
12:30
which I now am, due to explaining
thanks @RоryMcCune
@kalina quick go delete the post
what post
who are you?
then it'll look weird and undescribable
why am I in here?
what the hell has happened to my life
@kalina the one about victimising people
12:31
was it all a dream?
@RоryMcCune ...
@kalina caught in a landslide, no escape from reality?
@RоryMcCune open your eyes, look up to the skies and seeeeeeeeeeeee
@kalina I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy
Test
I don't know the song, I just memorised that line because everybody always quotes the line before it
12:34
@kalina it's worth a listen
What are those lines in the chat?
what lines
lines? Who said anything about lines?
I want lines
This lines ^^^^^^^
.................................
it's where you last paid attention up to
12:38
@RоryMcCune because its easy come, eeeassy goooo
oh......
Thanks #kalinathebest
please don't associate yourself with me, you do lots of things I dislike
#kalinatheworse
is that better?
........
@Stefan @Tinned_Tuna soooo about that password entropy...
@RоryMcCune classicer than the original classic :-)
12:41
kalina why would i click this link? chat.stackexchange.com/chats/leave/151
to make me like you
I dont want you to like me so ill just dont click it is that fine?
This room was placed in timeout for 30 seconds; the topic of this room is "The first breach costs you an arm...." - conversation should be limited to that topic.
next time I start kicking
@AviD are you threatening me?
@AviD good call that tigger
@kalina I don't think he is
12:43
@kalina actually wasnt you, but stop feeding the troll
oh ok
I like feeding trolls
Wasnt kalina? kalina tried to trick me from leaving this room
wich isnt allowed and should result in a ban
I'm sorry but anybody clicking on any link in a channel dedicated to internet security, full of intelligent people who should know better, deserves what they get
I didn't even break any rules.
See
You broke a rule and should be punished
this troll isn't even very good
12:49
PUNISH HIM! PUNISH HIM!
you're supposed to take the facts and warp them in a believable manner in order to disorient and confuse me
To be honest that's an amazing explanation of a troll @kalina
you guys can barely put together a coherent sentence
hi @Kisunminttu :)
12:50
@Kisunminttu o/
unfortunately we seem to have trolls today
@RоryMcCune Refreshing! Haven't seen one in a while, can I feed him?
@Kisunminttu we're trying not to in the hope they'll wander off without the mods actually having to kick them :)
@RоryMcCune Oh :( well maybe some other time then
I'm wondering if you guys see me as a troll, cuz I'm not trying to be one :/
12:51
@Kisunminttu that said others have already so if you feel the need :)
@Kisunminttu lets do this
@RоryMcCune Nah, I'm good, thanks. How was the dram this morning?
@Kisunminttu Hello how are you!
these are pretty amateur though so it won't be much of a challenge
@kalina do you see me as a troll ;o?
12:53
@Kisunminttu heh, I'm leaving them till the nights seeing as how I'm working at the mo :) they've been good so far... the american whiskey was odd but is interesting to try the different ones
@kalina So when is kalina getting banned for posting fake links?
cuz the only reason I stayed is that internet security is interesting
@Stefan Good, thanks! I see that your bannification is getting more stars than the other option... I guess someone's not getting presents this year!
Wut
ooh look, 3 people want him banned but only one person doesn't
I bet we could get that one person to change their mind as well
12:54
@RоryMcCune Which one has been the most pleasant so far?
Am I allowed to vote on his bann?
@Kisunminttu hmm well there was a balvenie, which I'm generally very partial to, the Dalemore 15 was also nice
@Gerwin anybody can star
@RоryMcCune I like the Dalemore logo
@Kisunminttu yeah it is cool...
12:56
@kalina do you know anything about SQL Injections, since this room is about internet protection, I was hoping someone could give me some tips about protecting a login-page from SQL injections and other malevolent attacks
@kalina Doesnt know that for sure!
@RоryMcCune Oh wow I just read some impressions on the whisky exchange and it sounds delicious!
@Gerwin I know nothing about anything to do with IT, information security, or development
ah alright thanks though
I'm not joking either, I am literally here because these people annoy me less than the rest of the network
12:57
@kalina Your mom.
oh okay ;/
@Gerwin We're definitely not about internet protection. If you're in the DMZ it's too late for that
@gerwin Flagged your post was really offensive.
I'm sure that pretty much everybody else in here could help though
@Gerwin I'm sure someone will help you with your question a bit later, the chat seems to be wild atm :)
12:58
@AviD @RoryAlsop @mods time for you to pay attention
alright, thank you ^^
@Noordung Who are you and what have you done with Tildy
@Simon 0/5 out of place
raz
raz
Good morning
@raz G'morning
@Kisunminttu I grew a beard and had 2 minutes with nothing better to do than to change my nickname
12:59
@Noordung Holy crap you're a busy man
not at the moment no
at the moment he's obviously not busy, he's on chat
@Kisunminttu :)
workers are installing me a new kitchen now ... I feel like a third wheel in my own house lol
@kalina wuddup
13:00
@Noordung I'VE BEEN HOMELESS FOR 1.5 WEEK NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE REDOING EVERYTHING
@AviD @Stefan just flagged @Gerwin for telling him to shuttup, since he was being stupid, (a) the flag passed so @Gerwin got banned, and (b) I think @Stefan should perhaps get spanked
@Simon so its not just because you're canadien?
@Noordung I know what you mean, @Adnan and I had a surprise visit from guys installing balcony windows a few months back, I felt so awkward. Had a nice chat with them at the breakfast table, though
set fire to people
@Simon till today I was redoing everything ... that was the fun part ... being stuck here with you guys is ... less so :P
13:01
set fire to everyone
BURN ALL THE THINGS
@Simon Ahh come on canadaman, the long face doesn't suit you. Here, have a donut
@Kisunminttu It's true ^_^ thanks!
@Simon homeless Simon?
@Kisunminttu hey hey you're on the correct side of the atlantic... that should be Doughnut!
see, look at this, @AviD is just the best moderator ever
13:02
I can talk again ;o what happend
bad things happened.
somebody set us up the bomb
Who flagged what now?
and then I happened to the bad things.
13:02
we got signal
@Kisunminttu ooo thats a donut
just ordered a dozen!
@AviD grr
im assuming @AviD lifted my suspension? thank you Sir!
hope theyre anygood.
raz
raz
bomb defused
13:03
@RоryMcCune Shame on me :P
@Kisunminttu wait you guys in Finland surprise-install each other balcony windows? :O
still, the rate of crap here is too damn high for me to keep track of. I may be unemployed, but I still have work to do.
perhaps I should have mentioned that this installation of my new kitchen doesn't really come as a surprise to me ... and neither my wallet :)
Pfft.. Finally @Stefan got kicked..
@AviD why do you think I only summoned you when it got out of hand? :p
13:04
@Noordung It's just the way my landlord likes to do things, he sticks a note at the door of our apt building: "blah blah blah will be done during weeks x-y" and that's it. When exactly is a mystery
@kalina well, yeah, exactly.
@Kisunminttu ah you rent ... well that explains it then
@Kisunminttu sounds like a crappy landlord.
@kalina "AviD Summoning I" Material component = donuts, snark or both :op
@AviD is there any other kind?
13:05
@Noordung Yeah. No point in me buying an apt or house at this moment
@Noordung I should hope, I try to be the other kind.
the awesome kind.
@AviD He has his quirks and perks
@Kisunminttu that sounds kinky.
@AviD let me guess, you even installed the wireless router for them? :)))
@Noordung offered, they wanted to run their own.
13:06
@Noordung Speaking of which, I really want a wireless router for my internet dongle
oh, hahaha, just got it. no, not that.
@Kisunminttu erm, shouldn't you ask @Adnan for that?
I'm Back who missed me?!
@Noordung I'm perfectly capable of modding my own internet dongle, tyvm
that was a warning shot. Dont make me do something you will regret.
13:07
@Stefan -20 people
@AviD here, have a coffee ...
@avid can you explain what i did wrong so I wont do it again
take a moment, maybe a drink, figure out the tenor of conversation here before trying to change it.
@Stefan the final straw was flag abuse.
@Kisunminttu OM NOM NOM
@avid about what can you talk without getting banned?
13:09
@Stefan Anglisch?
@Stefan very little you can't. but it depends a hell of a lot more on attitude.
@AviD is there any chance you could give me some advice in the protection against SQL Injections? at the moment I filter the special characters out, and turn them into html code such as: & for &... and then I filter that result again to make sure no special characters got through, I think this is an appropriate question to ask here because this chat is for internet protection?
@Gerwin the chat is for information security.
which could be said to include "internet protection", to some extent, but thats not at all what you are asking.
hmm alright, would a Database fall under the 'information' tag?
@Gerwin Are you joking?
13:11
a question like that, if you were to make it an actual, specific, question, would definitely be on topic.
but it would be a duplicate.
in chat? :)
so just go take a search, I'm sure you'll find what you need.
How on earth people don't know about parameterized queries yet?
ah alright, thanks though
Yes but those posts are old and you can't ask someone for advice in the coments there they wont answer.
13:11
if not, feel free to go ahead and ask the specific question.
@Gerwin try security.stackexchange.com/search?q=sql+injection+php and see if you still have questions after that lot
@Gerwin aww HELLS NO, is there really a "information" tag??
@Simon it's PHP. it's worse.
thank you @Noordung @Avid @RoryAlsop
@AviD funny enough there is (16 questions)
13:13
welcome
@Noordung does it mean ANYthing??
@AviD not that I'd know of
@Simon because nobody found a way to make people born with this knowledge.
@AviD The 1200 guess/day/account was assuming 25 guesses, then a half-hour lockout
stop being so condescending and actually try helping if you have the knowledge to help, rather than pointing and going "HA! that car has square wheels!"
@Tinned_Tuna that seems excessive
13:15
@kalina Talk to someone else this morning, I don't wanna deal with your attitude.
@Simon my attitude? Your attitude.
@AviD we don't want to raise lots of support tickets either ...
@Tinned_Tuna Can you explain why you choose this name?
@Stefan he looked around the room, his girlfriend was eating tuna, name stuck
@Stefan cut it out, man.
13:15
@AviD actually, according to the information theory, without tag description and tag wiki giving it some context,... it's an oxymoron tag (that's a first, no?)
dont be obsequious, needy, or overly personal with somebody you've barely met.
@Noordung right, exactly
that's a long word for you
@Tinned_Tuna well thats why you need to tune the parameters
more than two syllables
heh
13:16
honestly, I'm googling it now to see what it means
ha
that's a good word
I like that word
ahh thanka thanka
@AviD true. That's why I was asking about the expected entropy of passwords, it informs how much rope to give our users/attackers in this particular scenario
@Tinned_Tuna I dont think that matters.
well, thats not exact.
its more a question of how tight to make the rope.
13:17
haha
> synonyms: bootlicking, fawning, sycophantic, toadyish.
and since you dont have enough of it, you need to yank that noose manually.
@Tinned_Tuna this is an easy issue, what you do is you make it so that support calls are charged directly out of an employee's wage, then you make it so passwords must be 30+ characters in length and after 3 incorrect attempts, the account is locked out for 30 minutes. Additionally, make it so those 30 minutes are logged and also deducted from wages
inb4 "damn you have a weird sex life"
After the first week, all of the problem users won't be able to afford to get to work
13:18
@kalina a) no, b) these are not employees.
@Tinned_Tuna b) excellent, increase the cost of support calls by 500%
the kind of support system where you're asked for your credit card number before you're allowed to speak to a person
@kalina We're also not charging the end users.
well bummer
@Tinned_Tuna but yes, given a specific amount of entropy per password, you can calculate the mean time to break, and figure out what safety measure you want - but its more about "at what point do we get involved".
@AviD fair enough.
13:22
ok so I wasn't browsing for anything even remotely like this
but on a news website I have just seen a link to the following:
> MORE: Someone’s invented cannabis lube for ladies
Yey! Canadian science and tech museums are now following me on Twitter :)) #RorysAge
@Tinned_Tuna you're also not wrong about tuning the lockouts accordingly, but the tradeoff there is UX. cant do much there
which is why I suggested the incrementally increasing lockout.
e.g. 10 pwds - 1 minute lockout. 5 pwds - 5 minute lockout. 2 passwords - 10 minutes. Etc, or tuned however.
aye
but, that circles back to my original question -- don't you need a decent estimate of the entropy of the passwords to tune it? Or is it just a case of trial and error?
I'm back who missed me?
13:32
@Tinned_Tuna ideally, yes.
e.g. if you know there are mostly proper passwords, or if the system value is very low, you never need to worry about escalation. (well unless you want to be proactive about what basically amounts to traffic floods.)
if you know the passwords are very weak, and high system value, then you might prefer to even allow the account lockouts. Better DoS than account compromise?
in your case, passwords are likely to be moderately weak (is this an assumption? a guess? what are we basing this on?), so you dont want either of those extremes.
and thats exactly where the tuning comes in - a tradeoff between UX, risk, value, and cost of manual intervention.
So far, I've been basing a lot on the assumption that passwords are ~20b of entropy.
but I've no evidence either way. The only legitimate way I could think of is to analyse the RockYou (and other) password databases.
@Tinned_Tuna but that doesnt necessarily apply to YOUR users, for YOUR system, with those policies.
@AviD indeed
@AviD hence my asking, if anyone had any decent ball-park figures which generally apply. I expect the users of this system will be largely average in their password hygiene, but that's another assumption on my part.
@kalina what games do you play?
13:41
I was looking to quantify exactly how bad "average" is.
@Stefan many different games, none recently though
@Tinned_Tuna well in this not "average", but "common" - and pretty bad.
though with many (most?) users, entropy isnt even the problem.
@Kisunminttu d'aawwww thats purty!
Hey @Simon I just discovered bacon doughnuts are a thing
@Kisunminttu Which confirms that donuts are the most amazing thing ever.
I would star but you misspelled "donuts".
@RоryMcCune Soon, donuts will take over the world.
13:56
@Simon which is the direct reverse of me starring as doughnuts was correctly spelt :op
@RоryMcCune Don't encourage bad spelling!
@Simon I'm not
You are you donut.
@Simon *doughnut

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