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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

00:36
OH.EMM.GEE. Last episode of Silicon Valley, about halfway through - the funniest stupid bro conversation ever.
If you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. if you haven't, well I don't want to ruin it for you - just go and watch it right now.
@AviD Is that show actually good? I've been reluctant to watch it.
and no, I cannot repeat it here, its that dirty.
@DavidFreitag I am really enjoying it. it is at times painfully awkward, but a good amount IMO.
this last couple of episodes are just stellar. Gold.
@AviD What nerd's life isn't painfully awkward at some point?
If you don't have awkward moments you aren't a true nerd.
@DavidFreitag exactly.
God damn it, Google docs pisses me off sometimes. It wants to correct "or" in "either Jules or Vincent" to "&" WTF?!
 
2 hours later…
02:57
Awwyeah. Essay done. Thanks bourbon!
Another stupid simple hideously successful kickstarter... kickstarter.com/projects/1842571016/…
 
1 hour later…
04:24
@RоryMcCune interesting. I'll report it to Firefox, and see what happens.
Ideally this needs a change of spec
Ping me tomorrow if I haven't reported it by then :)
@AviD I think I'm at episode 6 or 7. I really should resume watching.
@tylerl ....wut.
That's stupid
04:40
@FEichinger You're a terrible person.
@ScottPack We already know that, he writes PHP.
Furry muff.
2
05:05
HAY GUISE
05:25
@ManishEarth whats stupid?
13
Q: Does PHP optimize tail recursion?

MaxI wrote a small piece of code that I believe should have succeeded if tail recursion was optimized, however it blew up the stack. Should I conclude PHP does not optimize tail recursion? function sumrand($n,$sum) { if ($n== 0) { return $sum; } else { return (sumrand($n...

05:39
@tylerl The PHP devs I presume.
05:49
@tylerl yes, that. Why?
@ManishEarth Not supporting tail recursion by itself by no means makes a language stupid. Python doesn't for example.
Python is interpreted, though
it might not be possible to implement that
@ManishEarth That makes absolutely no difference.
Actually, it should be able to
yeah
Why doesn't it, though?
@ManishEarth Python doesn't support tail recursion because Guido doesn't like recursion.
05:52
ah
I (think?) some implementations of Ruby supports tail recursion, but not all of them.
okay, the argument there about stack traces makes sense
(speedread it, will go through in detail later)
06:31
@ManishEarth PHP is interpreted as well. But that's not really the point. Tail recursion is just a silly compiler/interpreter trick that converts a nested function call to something more like a GOTO to the top of the current function, plus bookkeeping, etc. You can implement it anywhere.
It's just a matter of actually wanting to do so.
goooood moaning
@LucasKauffman I was wondering how long before you mentioned that...
and the answer would be 5 seconds roughly..
07:29
@RоryMcCune for once I'm allowed to do this, we don't usually win that much :)
@LucasKauffman heh, well Belgium are going well so far..
they're also upping their game
they played a lot better compared to last time
STOP WITH ALL THE EUPHEMISMS
@AviD I think you need to get laid
2
hahahaha
is that an offer?
because I am REEEEHEEEELLYYY not interested, thanks anyway though!
07:36
@AviD no not really, you are a married man!
I respect those boundaries
btw picked up something cool, a 5200 Mah powerbank with 3G module and wifi capability
so you can charge your phone or use it as a wifi AP for 3G
@LucasKauffman "wifi AP for 3G" explain.
@AviD It's a wifi modem that uses 3G to connect to the internet
all you need to do is insert a simcard in it
ah cool.
I was hoping it was the other way around.
I have excellent wifi in my office, but crap cell reception. I need some way to channel the calls/SMS over wifi...
@AviD ah no it's more like for when you are on the road, it will also charge your phone through USB
it was actually quite cheap, I paid like 30 euro including shipping
@AviD you can get those in the UK but they're always supplied by the network vendor
07:42
yeah I get that. cool, but I NEED SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO IT IS UNIMPORTANT.
so Vodafone do a suresignal which we use.. it's quite good when it works...
@AviD It's called Skype/Hangouts and Whatsapp/FB messenger/Skype/Hangouts ;)
@TerryChia oh? how do I redirect my number for calls and SMS to any one of those (only when my phone is out of range, of course)?
@AviD I know that there is a Belgian company specializing in that particular
Ahh, you were just trolling. Smartass.
@LucasKauffman name?
07:47
let me look it up
@AviD Isn't that what we do around here?
heh, of course. but there is the rare occasion when we are genuinely helpful.
well, not us, but some people.
@AviD ESCAUX
gesundheit.
@AviD now who's the smartass :op
07:49
heh
@LucasKauffman that looks cool, thanks!
wait no, thats just for corporate PBX...
@AviD yea they built it ontop of PBX, it's corporate, but it automatically will forward calls based on your connectivity IIRC
so if they can't reach you by phone it will automatically shift to your PC
not quite what I wanted, but still a good solution.
EXCEPT THAT I DON'T HAVE A PBX
08:05
what are you trying to achieve?
'morning
I want my phone to have pseudo-cellular reception over wifi
@AviD why not just get a skype number and do all of your calls via skype?
argg
because I want my regular number to still reach me
well it would
08:08
ah, you're saying have just a skype number.
you'd have a new number for your skype number and ringing that number would ring skype via mobile data or wifi
and you'd have a cellular number which would work over the normal cellular network
prices dont work. cell phone service here is dirt cheap.
that way you essentially you have two contact numbers pointing at one phone
@kalina okay, and how can I make it be ONE number?
@AviD stop using your cellular number
08:09
so if someone calls the cellular number but I have no reception.
dammit! this is not helping me.
@AviD nope, you'd have to do it the other way around
also: have you ever heard of voice mail?
wow, talk about non solutions.
finally; you might be able to link it all together if your cell provider is able to do call forwarding in the event you're out of range
F.e. T-Mobile has "wifi calling". this is exactly what I would want.
they're really the only people who can do what you're after without a horrifically manual kludge
since they're the only people who know the state of your cellular reception on the fly
08:11
interesting, so do some Lumias.
@AviD I don't think anyone mentioned anything about helping you. ;)
fair point. I totally had that coming.
yknow what, screw you all, I should just get a MacBook. That will solve all my problems, right? My life will magikally become betterer, somehow, right?
But honestly? I think eventually transitioning to a VOIP solution is the easiest route.
the difference in price is ridiculous.
actually, I should probably check it, havent looked at that in a while.
Tbh, I really like what Apple is doing with iMessage as far as SMS goes. I really wish Google will introduce something similar and cross platform.
08:27
ONE OF THESE DAYS
I will be out of my pyjamas and dressed before lunch
@kalina but let me guess, that day is not today?
no
or month
hang on a sec. Can Skype intercept calls/SMS to my cell number?
probably not even year
I know that Skype can send SMS from your number.
08:32
I'm not helping you further because you thought I was taking the piss earlier
no, just werent being especially helpful.
so, status quo.
no no, wait wait, I am WRONG.
3
there was that fantastic time you helped me with some powershell. That was awesome.
I still daydream about it.
3
08:45
Kalina knows powershell?
What is this madness
08:56
Morning.
@FEichinger Meowning
@LucasKauffman I know a lot of things but never reveal that fact
it's much easier to be ditzy than geeky
09:29
@FEichinger MORNING!
09:52
there's a lot of tumbleweed around here whenever I'm present
@kalina That is not true
@Kisunminttu well apart from when it is :op
@kalina WHY ARE YOU YELLING?
@Kisunminttu thanks for trying to be kind about it but I am knee deep in tumbleweed!
@kalina There's a lot of tumbleweed around here, period.
Has nothing to do with your presence. In fact, your presence reduces the amount of tumbleweed, most of the time.
If only because you spam "bored".
10:01
@FEichinger Except for weird periods when people get incredibly chatty.
@kalina Could be worse...
Which reminds me, where did @Lighty go?
@Kisunminttu he's a PHP developer, we don't try to rationalise their actions
@Kisunminttu Didn't he say he was going on holiday or something?
@TerryChia Oh yeah, that's true! Wow, someone who doesn't hang around the webs while on holiday... I think there's a valuable lesson somewhere in there...
@kalina What's wrong with PHP?
2
@Kisunminttu you know like when you make food, and you carefully add all of your ingredients to taste and it's awesome and nom and you eat it?
now imagine you have a room with 15 people in it, who've all made their own delicious food
some of its not perfect
but it was tasty none the less
PHP is the bucket in the middle of the room that they all proceeded to puke in
6
10:11
@Kisunminttu "Could be worse" reminds you of "where did @Lighty go"?
5
That's kinda harsh, don't you think?
@Kisunminttu EVERYTHING.
Except for String concat. DOT OVER PLUS.
@kalina That is brilliant, thank you.
@FEichinger Tsk, PHP developers.
@FEichinger Because I started thinking about all the new holes @Lighty got ripped into him in this room...
@Kisunminttu That's because it's true. has do fix some old php-code later today
@kalina Sounds about right.
10:15
I know
I thought my analogy was excellent
It is, indeed.
taking all the worst parts of every language and then making them WORSE
That's not true!
PHP doesn't make them worse. It just piles them together with no logical structure.
@FEichinger And then adds some acidic stuff to top it off.
@kalina indeed, it brightened my day.
@FEichinger some things it makes worse. Like string concat.
10:20
@FEichinger No.
@AviD DOT. OVER. PLUS.
@FEichinger PERIODS ARE STUPID.
6
@AviD DOTS ARE AWESOME AND COMPLY WITH LANGUAGE THEORY.
@AviD I second this. Bleeding like a gutted animal for a week every month is fucking retarded
they do not connote any form of binary operation, let alone the commonly understood string concatenation.
@kalina ....
hey @FEichinger a use for your dots!
10:22
That's not worthy of an ellipsis.
@FEichinger actually they do not, not at all. you are confusing . with *
its like "-" if you look at it from the side
very very very different from .
@AviD No, * is reflexive transitive closure.
@AviD TWSS
@FEichinger there, its not an elipssis
@AviD Now she will gut you because FOUR DOTS ARE THE EVIL.
10:24
@FEichinger okay so I dont have proper mid-height dot on my keyboard. but you know what I meant.
aaaand another reason not to use it.
@AviD Yes, that's precisely why we should use the period dot, rather than the centered dot - the centered dot is not an easily-accessible character.
@TerryChia I object, my statement was taken out of context.
Like that is something that never ever happens in the DMZ.
@AviD I don't think you should argue with @FEichinger any longer about this matter. He is a PHP developer and therefore we know he is wrong.
@FEichinger and it is different from a period dot!
@TerryChia true point.
@AviD But the dot has the correct shape and is just a few pixels off the position it should be at!
10:26
@FEichinger actually, its not - the period is a single pixel, the center dot is thicker.
hmm like maybe a BOLD period dot. Raised up a bit.
Raised up for being BOLD.
Kneel period dot, and arise SIR DOT!
<span style="position: relative; bottom: 0.25em; font-weight: bold;">.</span>
@FEichinger That's a good idea. We should use that snippet for every string concatenation.
Totes!
Actually that might be just annoying enough to prevent most PHPers from doing their SQL with string concatenation. We might just be able to fix SQL Injection in PHP!!
this conversation is the most stupid conversation that has ever occurred in the DMZ
I hope you're all satisfied with yourselves
10:30
Naaaaaah, PHPers are used to doing incredibly annoying things. I dont think this would stop them.
@kalina I doubt that. We're missing @Simon, @Lighty, and @Adnan.
@FEichinger that only goes to demonstrate HOW stupid this conversation is.
Melon!
@kalina no, stupidest conversation is that scientific tip-to-tip discussion on Ep.8 of Silicon Valley. Seriously, watch it.
@AviD did that conversation occur in the DMZ?
No it didn't.
Therefore, I can conclude based on evidence that @AviD's grasp of written language is worse than most PHP documentation writers
@kalina doesnt matter. The pure awesomeness of it's stupidity overflows and reaches all discussions everywhere.
10:34
@kalina PHP has documentation writers?
@kalina or I take more liberties than Oracle marketers.
@TerryChia I said documentation writers instead of technical authors
that alone should be enough
@TerryChia The public documentation isn't that terrible!
The inline one is just ... really really awful.
@FEichinger It's certainly better than what OpenSSL has I'll give you that much.
GUYS
10:44
KALINA
YO MOMMA!
Someone please send me some hot choc
@ManishEarth You found 1 HOT CHOCOLATE. It has been placed into your inventory.
Do as he says, or do as he does?
@ManishEarth yes
@ManishEarth ignore him completely
10:48
@kalina But ... but ... my inventory is in Canada!
@kalina F'in moderator
( o/ @AviD)
The ramblings of a hypocrite can all be disregarded
Says the hypocrite.
@ManishEarth heeeeey I was talking about dots!
@AviD you were talking about periods
@FEichinger nobody listens to me anyway
@kalina period dots!
@kalina oh, you're on twitter?
10:51
@kalina That's not true!
inb4 "you don't count"
@AviD I am not on twitter but I am on twitter
markdown is broken
@kalina It's not.
is on my screen
@AviD What the hell is a "period dot"?
\*I* am not on twitter but **I** am on twitter correctly renders as *I* am not on twitter but I am on twitter
10:53
@FEichinger I don't remember typing that slash
@TerryChia To distinguish it from the middle dot that we want.
@kalina See, that might be a bug. But Markdown is actually working. For once.
@FEichinger NO YOU ARE WRONG STOP BEING SUCH A PHP DEVELOPER
in the language of the DMZ
@kalina I AM NOT WRONG. LET ME BE NOT WRONG ONE TIME.
"PHP DEVELOPER" is akin to swearing at somebody
3
YOU'RE SO MEAN.
10:56
@FEichinger I'M SORRY THE PLANETS ARE NOT CURRENTLY ALIGNED
@kalina :(
@FEichinger <3
@kalina No. NO HEARTS FROM YOU.
@kalina no, "PHP Developer" is akin to "dirt chef". The combination of words is nonsensical and have no business being attached to each other.
@AviD Tsk!
11:11
Jun 25 at 12:43, by Terry Chia
@kalina Did we ever agree what the PHP equivalent of developers is? I feel dirty saying "PHP developers".
@TerryChia what do you call kids in the park making mudpies?
whatever that is, that's what we should call them.
11:47
hey @RoryAlsop do you have that link for requesting conf swag?
ah nevermind, I found it on meta :-)
I'm bored
I just thought you'd all be interested to know
Although you're probably not all that interested
From this I learn that I should invert all of my opinions
I'm still not sure you'd enjoy that though
12:06
@AviD send me a security.SE t-shirt :3
Large!
@LucasKauffman Come to AppSecIL !
large? why are you getting yo momma a security.SE tshirt?
@AviD when is it?
@kalina hehe, nice
@LucasKauffman Sept 2
@AviD too close to brucon and my holiday, they will never let me go
12:07
@LucasKauffman SO.MUCH.FRIKKIN.WORK.
@LucasKauffman wait, when is brucon??
you mean you don't know?
psh, everybody knows that
you could take your holiday in the Holy Land... ;-)
24-25 september
lol "holy"
@LucasKauffman ah, not "close"
12:08
@kalina It's got Jeruzalem, I can go find the crib of the baby Jebus
@LucasKauffman sick crib, baby
@LucasKauffman and if you go to madame tussauds you can see harry potter
I'm not a big fan of fiction
> Hi! I took a few courses on MATLAB and C, and I would like to learn Python. The thing is, at my school, they had the part where you type in code all ready for us, and told us how to execute it. I don't know how to do that on my own, especially for a new language. I guess they didn't prepare us for that.
/sigh
> the part where you type in code all ready for us
4 secs ago, by kalina
> the part where you type in code all ready for us
8 secs ago, by kalina
4 secs ago, by kalina
> the part where you type in code all ready for us
12:32
@TerryChia IMO installing the compiler/runtime/... and finding a good IDE is one of the bigger parts of beginning with a new language. Doubly so with python, since you also need to be careful about python2 vs python3.
@CodesInChaos Yes, but the next paragraph doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the guy.
> I tried to do it myself with those resources on the right, but once I get to this page, I have no idea what I want. I don't even know if that's really the download page. It says it supports those formats for download. What does that even mean?!
I mean... you really shouldn't be programming before knowing about basic stuff like "which installer to use".
@TerryChia No, you should not. It's basically "What very general kind of PC+OS combination do you have?" If you don't know that, you're gonna have a bad time.
I say #YOLO install all the things
3
@LucasKauffman I should get your adress and come give you a physical kick.
But I'm way too lazy for that.
@Arperum you haven't got enough swag to kick me
12:47
@TerryChia 50% chance he's just trolling, 50% he's serious, and went to the worst school in the entire world.
@LucasKauffman @AviD does though. Pinging @AviD.
@Xander I'm betting serious.
@TerryChia I'm quite impressed with how patient the reddit'ers seem to be with him. That's unusual.
@Xander /r/Python is pretty polite.
The quality of people in Reddit greatly varies by subreddits.
Much like Stackexchange I'll say.
@TerryChia I just avoid the whole thing.
@Xander I frequent /r/Python and visit /r/netsec at times.
That's about it.
12:51
@TerryChia meh, @LucasKauffman can have a freebie once in a while. ONCE.
@Xander and I dont think thats the worst school. I've seen worse.
@TerryChia is that because they are all Canadian?
@AviD Worse than a programming course where you don't actually program? Just execute programs?
@Xander how about one where you actually program, but in PHP?
"program"
@Xander No, I think they type code in the IDE and click "Run". They just don't know how to set up the IDE.
Which is a huge "just".
@AviD Ha ha. Yes, this is true. That would be pretty awful.
or Visual Basic, in 2014. And not V6, either, v.5.
12:53
@AviD Maybe they got a close-out discount?
@Xander or maybe thats the last brand new thing the teacher learned, before he stopped learning and started teaching.
@TerryChia That still implies a complete lack of introduction to the fundamentals. You have to learn how to use a computer before you learn to write software for one.
"stopped learning and started teaching" - those are two terms that should neeeeveeer go together.
Like "production" and "PHP".
2
@Xander still missing the huge step - "how the computer works". Must be learned before you learn to write software...
12:58
@AviD Yes, this is a fundamental too, I agree. There are a number of fundamentals. I was merely pointing out the one he had clearly missed.
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

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