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2 hours later…
06:24
so...
I tried to ARP spoof a phone, and when the user (me) visit the FB website a security notice pops up saying "something blocks the secure connection" or something like that....
 
2 hours later…
08:04
@AviD not sure if it's a pre-req but they do seem to do it at all of them, from what I can see it's part of the fund-raising aspect of it all as they get a cut of the training money..
08:47
@RоryMcCune I just promoted Ruby :O
@LucasKauffman Captain Ruby?
Do we have to salute Ruby now?
@AviD There is still General Python
@RоryMcCune Interesting. the guidelines also explicitly mention it, but all the language is couched in "usually / typically" lawyerese.
Otherwise the "small local" even we have here would be well undefined.
@LucasKauffman salute!
@TerryChia lurker
What.
the.
hell.
> The use of ASP pages with Internet Information Services (IIS) is currently supported on all supported versions of IIS. The use of ASP pages will be supported on Windows 8 for a minimum of 10 years from the Windows 8 release date.
(wikipedia)
09:00
lolwut?
what's wrong with that?
its called marketing, makes moar monies
what's wrong with that?
nothing :3
people like monies
yes
monies are the best
09:12
@Lighty no, not at all. it does not make monies, and marketing are explicitly NOT pushing ANY use of classic asp.
its apparently part of their commitment to indefinite backwards compatiblity.
its the same as ending life support for XP, but 'not as bad', if users cant use their apps on their OS/System, they will need a new one
atleast, thats what it looks like too me
this is done very quietly (from a marketing perspective), I guess unless you're specifically needing that support you wont see it at all.
09:25
@AviD quick question, what's the correct/professional way of saying there is a negative vibe between two people
@LucasKauffman "He is an asshole, and I can't stand him."
AviD should be a therapist
@AviD mmmm I think I'm going to get a second opinion
"Whenever the two of them are in a room, it gets all romantic, if by romantic you mean screaming at each other and throwing things. Like an old married couple".
"Put the two of them on the same team and they'll get all Game of Thrones over each other faster than GRR can kill your favorite character of the week."
@LucasKauffman None of those work for you?
@AviD :P
@AviD I wish I could use them
09:28
I dont do "professional way of saying things". I'm Israeli.
Ask @RoryAlsop for that.
@AviD I forgot
@RoryA :3
"Their methods of working are incompatible, and [he] does not fit naturally with their team culture."
tense atmosphere
I'll use that
@LucasKauffman that could work, but it also has negative connotations.
@AviD the problem is it's the both of them, they're a bit like two grumpy neighbours which don't want to talk to eachother
09:31
(which I assume youre trying to avoid....)
@AviD It's for a personal review
@LucasKauffman fine, so whichever it is, reformat that "culture" to both of them.
focus on productivity and "culture".
@Lighty yes, sometimes what you need is just someone to say to you: "You're an asshole".
luckily, you probably have people like that all over.
you have no idea ^^
@AviD I actually appreciate that, it's something you can work with. I feel a lot of the reviews avoid to offend you and drop your negative points.
@LucasKauffman honestly? My wife has saved me from being one so many times over, simply by saying that to me when I need to hear it.
09:46
@AviD You mean every morning after you wake up?
:P
but thats why I cant work at Big4 anymore - I dont have patience for zombiespeak anymore.
@LucasKauffman hahaha
sometimes before
@AviD it depends on the team though
@LucasKauffman sorry! Did I say "zombiespeak"? I meant "professional way of saying things".
@Lucas I'm sitting in an airport and mobile chat sucks so..
@AviD "We believe there are several points of improvement" => "Honnestly what are you doing? Did you even remotely think this over before implementing? You suck and you should be ashamed."
@TerryChia Changi?
I felt that they had good wifi infrastructure
09:52
@LucasKauffman I wouldnt actually say that first sentence unless what I mean is "they did a damn good job, only a few small details, possible several points of improvement".
But then, if that's what I meant, that's what I would say.
Again, is why I cant work corporate anymore.
the one habit I am still trying to break, is remaining silent instead of throwing a chair at somebody's head when it is needed. Just dont want to hurt their feelings, yknow?
@AviD Golf club to the knee is so much classier
@LucasKauffman what am I, a lawyer?
obligatory professional speak.
no, you're a tigger
tigger bounce
lawyers bounce off
@Lucas Korea actually, flying back to sg soon.
10:13
@Terry Now who else is gonna start nagging about mobile chat?
It's not cool anymore. We were doing it before it became cool
is there a good chat app for SE on android yet?
there's one on there that simply doesn't work
@LucasKauffman woo!
refuses to log in with no explanation why
@AviD yeah if I was you I'd avoid involving central office on confs and do your own thing. I think once it becomes a bigger OWASP thing it can involve quite a lot of extra bureaucracy
@RоryMcCune oh fer shure.
but we are kinda outgrowing our current setup, and its problematic to do a "mid-size" conf. Small is easy, past that you have to go big to be able to scale at all past "small".
At least, thats what I'm thinking now.
the main hurdle is cost structure.
10:28
@AviD yeah if it's under the OWASP banner, worth looking into the regional conf cost structure stuff, I seem to recall there being quite a bit of discussion/debate about that with the Austin chapter...
Right, so as a Regional conf we were always Free to attend (well, Free+lunch), the venue was comped (in exchange for sponsorship), and sponsors basically covered the catering costs + other small expenses.
@TerryChia ah korea is cool
@TerryChia what did you visit?
I think this is probably the last year that we can use this free venue, so we need to start finding another bigger place. Also, I mentioned I want to make this more international - but cant do that halfway.
@AviD yah as soon as you start becoming a full conf, with all that attracts, it becomes a bigger effort. IIRC the upside of doing a proper OWASP conf is that they cover some of the financial risk side of things...
oh do they?
10:34
@AviD well for the full confs like Appsec EU they do I know
upside for me would be: (hopefully) even bigger crowd, sharing the (fantastic) talks with a wider audience, and more fun conf - since there is more time for other activities.
downside is: extra work, extra overhead, extra bother, extra costs, and probably lose some of our local crowd, either because of cost-per-person, or because it would have to all be in English, or because it is 2 full days and not just a single "come for whatever parts you want" day.
@AviD owasp.org/index.php/How_to_Host_a_Conference#tab=BUDGET this bit implies that conference costs are handled by the foundation..
which would imply a level of cover from them , but I think it also means that most of the "profits" would flow back to the foundation as wel...
@RоryMcCune oo yeah, thats interesting.
though it hasnt really been a huge fundraiser in the past - we have had surplus sponsorships several years, but we at up all that surplus last year.
we are kind of an anomaly - we still insist on everything being free.
hell, other than a few global corporates, we barely have any paying members. Maybe a handful of individuals, probably less.
@AviD yeah the Scotland chapters never been a big money-spinner (partially 'cause I'm terrible at that sort of thing)
@RоryMcCune do you know anywhere that OWASP has a comparison of the different chapters, as far as activity / size / participation / contribution goes?
only thing I'd found was the finances.
which is depressing.
10:44
@AviD I've not seen that, not even sure they gather it (definitely no-one's asked me about Scotland...)
Might be interesting (although probably just depressing at how large some of the other chapters are)
heh. no shame in serving a strong local market.
there are actually quite a few chapters that are all but dormant, more of a handful of guys talking once in a while. I bet @Adnan has been in orgies with more attendees.
I would even guess that most of the chapters are not much better than that.
11:40
Afternoon all
I see you two have somehow got rid of all the kids while I was away
I was busy...
Oh, did that image not work?
@RoryAlsop Very Rock'n'Roll Mr Alsop!
@RoryAlsop Looks like you had a good time at Download then!
Of course :-) got to have the 'Tech babes
It was even better than last year. VIP tickets ftw
@RoryAlsop nice!
Very civilised. Showers, great bar staff, morning bacon rolls provided, famous folks rocking our merch... And some excellent bands! Aerosmith still have it
@RoryAlsop sounds like the right way to do a festival...
We had Scott Bradlee at Oran Mor last night. they put on a good show, did the whole thing as a 30's/40's style american radio band with announcer and fake commercials and the like.
11:53
cake
It's a network problem, the user is getting a 404 error.
That sounds like fun Rory!
Cake, @kalina?
cake!
I'm going again now
bye
12:16
@RoryAlsop it was awesome, good showmanship and music. They did a good length of set 1:30 and the inevitable encore. As an added bonus I'm more aware of modern pop stuff without actually having to listen to it!
12:36
strawberry filled doughnut
@deed02392 you sick perverted bastard.
@AviD if you're on the OWASP leaders list you might want to read what just got posted by Dinis Cruz...
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMmm
dammit, I hate going to that folder. FIIIIIIINE
oh yay. moar drama.
12:39
Churros with a chocolate dip = excellent festival food
is the web forum link...
heard there was a big secret story there... yknow its not my business. if people are crap, then yeah we need to fix the org that allows that. But I dont need to get into her life...
meh, I'll read it later.
Maybe what we need is to get Mark Curphey back into the swing, let him shake up the cronyism.
@AviD heh, yeah I'd rather the drama-llama stayed away, but this one has the potential to mess up OWASP for a while.
0
Q: Two-factor authentication Without Mobile Phone

EngineerTwo-factor authentication is based on the notion of “something you know” and “something you have”. Is it absolutely necessary for having your mobile phone involved in two-factor authentication, which is used by all the big companies, like Google etc.? Instead of relying on a third-party device, ...

@RоryMcCune That's really sad. I wonder what happened to the funds
@LucasKauffman not sure about that one, I have an idea of what's being referred to but it'd just be guesswork on my part. The interesting thing will be how the board respond, they've basically got two options that I can see. One is lawyer up and fight it in court and the other is the apology and try to make up line...
12:52
@LucasKauffman Usually, when such drama-laden stories appear, it turns out that the funds never existed in the first place.
amusingly I just got my first that that must've had autocomplete="off" on a password field with Firefox 30 offer to store my password..
@RоryMcCune or just go with what they've seemed to be doing most often: ignore it, hope it goes away, with occasional badmouthing just to top it off.
Mutatis mutandi, this is like Greece's national debt. The Greeks are convinced that their money was "stolen" but the sad truth is that they never had any to begin with.
@AviD well if what's said in that e-mail is true, that'll be tricky as it sounds like a legal matter now....
it's totally not Samanthas fault but this has the potential to make AppsecEU a really not very fun conference...
@RоryMcCune ah, havent read it yet, have to get this report out.
then running to chapter meeting....
12:54
@AviD wait you're not procrastinating instead of report writing, what sort of consultant are you :op
@RoryM So, staying for punting on the 27th?
inorite
dont worry though, I got massive amounts of procrastinating done last week.
why do you think I spend so much time complaining? ;-)
@Adnan we're around till the Sunday so yeah punting is an option, although Marion reckons that it can lead to a high probability of impromtu swimming...
kidding, this project was actually enjoyable. Other than the Spanish.
@AviD heh
12:56
@AviD Yeah, I got massive amounts of procrastination too
Hmmm.. I don't think I know what procrastination means
lol
@Adnan They don't have the Internet where you live ?
Procrastination is the practice of carrying out less urgent tasks in preference to more urgent ones, or doing more pleasurable things in place of less pleasurable ones, and thus putting off impending tasks to a later time, sometimes to the "last minute" before the deadline. The pleasure principle may be responsible for procrastination; one may prefer to avoid negative emotions, and to delay stressful tasks. The belief that one works best under pressure provides an additional incentive to the postponement of tasks. Some psychologists cite such behavior as a mechanism for coping with the anx...
@Thomas Oooh.. So that's what it means. Yeah, that's not what I got
13:18
Rory - punting is a lot easier than you think, as long as you approach each stroke slowly and carefully. Dampness is an option but only if you want.
(Whaddya mean, starwhore? :-)
@RoryAlsop you dirty whore
2
13:40
@ThomasPornin I'll give that a read tomorrow.
14:16
Haha @Iszi - that takes me back to that wonderful Area51 proposal
@RoryAlsop Good times.
 
1 hour later…
Evening!
@IonicãBizãu Evening
Whoups, I think that I am in the wrong chat room... :-)
:16103686 Oh, I think you're asking in the wrong place. At least I am the wrong person to ask
Exactly. I supposed I am in the English chat room.
15:25
@IonicãBizãu Also, you look just like my Bulgarian friend
From your picture, I really thought you're him
I am Romanian, so possible. :-) Who is him?
Any photo with him?
@IonicãBizãu Romanian.. hmmm
I've been to Romania a few times
Really? Cool!
Cheapest.. ummm.. vodka shots ever
Hahaha!
I am not a drinker...
15:27
But, maaan.. what's with the electricity cables in the street?
Sooo many of them
and why doesn't anybody stop for you on a crosswalk?
Bucharest reminded me so much of Syria
Especially with all the gypsies
Yeah... unfortunately, Romania has a weird picture...
Romania is a great country, unfortunately it's populated. :p
But other than that, it's actually quite fun
electricity cables in the street - that sounds normal for us... :-)
 
1 hour later…
16:31
@RoryM did you work with Eoin? All I heard about him is that he bought tons of Czenic Hailstorm licenses back at EY, because they were sponsoring OWASP
first penalty, we're 10 minutes in
1-0 for Germany
@LucasKauffman Lag?
@CodesInChaos yea I'm watching with delay
@CodesInChaos do you watch football?
No. But my colleagues in then adjacent room do.
@LucasKauffman RLY, I hadn't heard that. yeah I know Eoin, did a couple of pieces of work with him either at EY or when I was at RBS.
he's got a new co. doing scanning and testing these days...
@RоryMcCune yea it was a bit controversial apparantly
@CodesInChaos ah you don't join the party?
16:41
@LucasKauffman I didn't know that, I could see scanner choice being a bit controversial as Cenzic were a bit of an outside choice when compared to AppSec and WebInspect back then..
17:37
phew Home.
@LucasKauffman jeju island amongst other things.
@TerryChia sweet
I must say Korea is very good with free wifi. I regret not bringing my laptop along.
17:57
Hey @LucasKauffman, since you are the only alcoholic around.... I picked up a bottle of this at the duty free (themacallan.com/the-whisky/the-1824-collection/select-oak), is it a crappy bottle? (I know next to nothing about whisky.)
@TerryChia I'm quite enjoying the MacAllan I bought the other day
@TerryChia can't go wrong with MacAllan imo
@RоryMcCune Heh. I was confused by the choices, that was one of the cheaper bottles in the store.
@TerryChia yeah the one I bought wasn't particularly expensive (for a malt) but is nice, not my favourite but nice
@TerryChia and I know what you mean about the range, it's ridiculous these days
I should have asked for recommendations from the whisky snobs in here (ahem @AviD) before I reached SG but I forgot.
18:01
@TerryChia yeah for actual recommendations you want @AviD or @RoryAlsop
indeed
beer is more my speciality
although @RoryAlsop suffers from Highland park bias ;op
@LucasKauffman mmm beer. what's a good belgian beer for summer drinking?
Reading reviews (masterofmalt.com/whiskies/the-macallan-select-oak-1l-whisky) really reminds me of the time I spent in an audiophile forum a few years back.
@RоryMcCune I always recommend La Chouffe, if you like fruity beers, kriek or framboise lindemans
@RоryMcCune Imperial IPAs are also nice if you like bitter things
@LucasKauffman actually not so fond of bitter (for reference my fav. belgian beer so far is leffe blond)
18:06
@RоryMcCune You might enjoy the tripple karmeliet then, it's fresher in flavour than Leffe Blond, another good blonde beer is Brugse zot
@LucasKauffman ta :)
@RоryMcCune There's also Geuze, which is more a sour beer
I must try some of the local beers when I get a chance this place fyneales.com is just up the road from us..
@DavidFreitag I have decided that me giving you finished tunes to listen to is counter productive to my goal
@kalina so instead you'll finish the dot dot dot song, right :op
18:10
@RоryMcCune those are mostly IPAs
hoi
so a bit more bitter
oh, you mean start the dot dot dot song
@kalina you've not started! (!devastated!)
@RоryMcCune Saisons are the prototypical Belgian summer ales. Can't think of any to recommend specifically at the moment.
18:12
Oh, @Xander is pretty snobby as well I think?
Wasn't @AviD asking him for coffee recommendations a while back?
@Xander Saisons means seasons, this makes no sense.
@Xander Im not too fond of saisons except for the sweet ones
anyway no that wasn't my point
@LucasKauffman I tend to like the spicier, or sour variants. There's such a variety though, there's practically a saison for every palate.
I figured that in order to give you guys something to listen to I have to make something and then abandon all hope on it
so
18:14
@Xander yea sour is good as wel
@Simon What part of French does make sense? I thought not making sense was the entire point of French.
I really should actually look at doing that dot dot dot thing, I still have the tab open actually
@kalina Do it.
@DavidFreitag read above conversation
@Xander Well, you do have a point.
18:15
and here is a track I've abandoned for you already: soundcloud.com/dreyauc/bored-20140616-7-m/s-jGkkR
I wrote it today just for you guys
and it's not 172 bpm either
but it's hardly finished
get over it
Should be about 148
it's 150
there is no way you could tell the difference without counting so stop complaining
And I shall now proceed to cut off my legs because they hurt so gorram much.
@TerryChia Yes, coffee is another beverage I enjoy.
@RoryM or my all time favourite, Orval
18:16
@kalina I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 148 and 150 or 148 and 172?
148 and 150
@Simon TWSS
That's right.
even a complete idiot would be able to tell the difference between 148 and 172
lulz
Look at you with your acid synth, lawl
18:17
@kalina Soo ... not Simon then.
the original version of that sentence said "even @feichinger can tell the difference between 148 and 172"
@kalina Why did you give up on that track? It's quite good.
@TerryChia btw I didn't know you like whisky?
@Simon because I can't just link something completely shit now can I?
18:19
o
@LucasKauffman I'm not sure I do. I just bought a bottle to try.
its ok though because bored 20140615 is a much stronger track
@kalina Well, that's sad. I was looking forward to hearing something new. Oh well.
@DavidFreitag so you responded without reading
c'est la vie
back later anyhow
@kalina But i did read it
18:21
@TerryChia do mind that it can be a bit of an aquired taste sometimes
6 mins ago, by kalina
and here is a track I've abandoned for you already: https://soundcloud.com/dreyauc/bored-20140616-7-m/s-jGkkR
C'EST LA VIE, JE N'Y PEUX RIEN C'EST ELLE QUI M'A CHOISIE
C'EST LA VIE
@LucasKauffman So I should keep drinking till my tastebuds are numb? ;)
@kalina But maybe I didn't read it all.
@TerryChia by that time you'll probably be telling yourself "I won't ever drink again in my life"
18:23
@LucasKauffman So just a normal Friday night for you then? :P
It's been a while so:
#yolo
validated just because
Wait, when did become a room topic?
when avid resigned as mod
18:25
@TerryChia I believe it was when the church of AviD tried to overthrow the rightful Rory-Rule :op
Jun 6 at 11:43, by Rоry McCune
room topic changed to The DMZ: The first breach costs you an arm.... [double-entendre] [food] [libations] [nonoavid] [nonoyolo] [rory] [security]
@RоryMcCune Pfft you heathens! I only worship The Bear.
@TerryChia heretic!
room topic changed to The DMZ: The first breach costs you an arm.... [double-entendre] [food] [libations] [nonosimon] [nonoyolo] [rory] [security]
2
We could become like Islam, half of us worships Thomas Pornin and the other half sees Tom Leek as the messiah
18:29
@ScottPack I thought there was a limit to the number of tags.
Sweet. After some bodge resistors, I finally got my PXE booter working. Faith restored in my engineering abilities.
@kalina Very Basshunteresque.
@Iszi Your face is tag limited
Whoa, am I being exiled?
That's rude.
cc:\ @Simon
Oh, talking about The Bear, I saw @Thomas in Korea.
18:36
@TerryChia what
@DavidFreitag Not too bad!
Oh ho, Linode has $10 VPS-es now. Should keep it competitive with DO.
@Simon It's catchy but it gets boring after a while
@DavidFreitag Yeah well, I was expecting a more energetic "drop".
18:44
That's also very good.
19:20
@RоryMcCune I do - that is true
But I also like many, many others
19:43
@DavidFreitag is this a compliment?
@ton.yeung no SSL I see, wonder how secret your URL will remain once you are surfing through Wifi
@ton.yeung A "secret URL" is like a password that you write down in some file. If you want to do that, then URL are not bad (the Web browser has already the GUI for the "writing down" and "typing again"; it is called bookmarks).
@kalina I suppose. I do like Basshunter.
:biggrin:
However, such URL tend to leak to the disk. And, of course, lack of SSL is kind of a bummer.
20:00
@ton.yeung Visited URL, and bookmarks, are written by the browser to some files on the disk.
Whereas passwords are normally kept in RAM only.
If I steal your laptop, I should not be able to get your passwords
but I will be able to extract your "secret URL" from the traces left by your browser in its "history".
@ton.yeung The problem I see with it is that URLs are not designed to be secret (unlike passwords which are) so will tend to get used/published/analyzed. So I'd only think about this for things where you really don't care if it's made public and there's no consequence to you of its compromise..
for example google analytics will store URL information so will store the "secret" keys
@ton.yeung it might solve a specific case, but because you don't necessarily know every service / piece of code that might want to use a URL there's always a risk
@ton.yeung If your secrets are, in fact, not secret, then indeed there is no problem in them being revealed.
so you could set up your site just fine then a user uses a browser which sends all their URLs to an analytics site (out of your control) who then publishes them
and the analytics site aren't doing anything wrong in their eyes 'cause URLs aren't secret
As they say, the best way not to die is to be already dead.
20:10
@ton.yeung Basically you are trying to dismiss objections to the "secret URL" scheme by redefining your requirements so that the secret URL needs not be secret after all.
Then why use a secret URL or password in the first place ?
@ton.yeung So, you're okay with identification without authentication?
@ton.yeung That means that you are okay with identification without authentication, but your are not okay with enumeration of identities.
@LucasKauffman wtf?
@RоryMcCune yea cool huh, the guy photoshopped himself into the clip
20:33
mmm kfc
No, Kentucky.
@AviD You need to whip OWASP into shape. It's more of a soap opera than a security organization these days.
@ton.yeung He's active locally. I'm not sure in what capacity.
and... Matrix
also I have skittles crush 'ems
20:49
@Xander @ton.yeung @AviD is the Israel chapter leader :)
@RоryMcCune Desperados? Hells Angels? Outlaws?
@LucasKauffman yeah chapter is a weird word, but it's an american thing they seem to have chapters for everything!
 
2 hours later…
22:24
@LucasKauffman Y'know, I could totally see Tigger in a Hell's Angels vest, jeans, and boots, riding a Harley.
Give him a handlebar mustache to go with it. But don't shave his head. That would look too weird.

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