The DMZ

Gilles

00:02

@Ninefingers Community is important, but topic matters too. Mathematics works very well around a topic. Programmers suffers from having a clear community but fighting over topic.

Still, I think most successful SE sites do have a fairly clear community, or at least a panel of communities with sufficiently common topics. E.g. Unix and Linux is for unix users and admins and hobbyists. IT Security is for pros in a bunch of IT-related security fields.

Ninefingers

00:16

@Gilles I must admit, I've avoided programmers...

Gilles

@Ninefingers You're not missing anything, unless you like drama

Ninefingers

Haha, I don't, that's why I like stackexchange on the whole, because a lot of the noise and nonsense just don't happen.

@Gilles I don't disagree - both are important, but I think who you want to serve is more important as it sort of defines the topic. On SO, for example, there are many different types of developer, but developing is more or less the same idea across languages. By contrast, server admin doesn't fit so well.

Mana

The problem is, of course, how to react when it does!

Ninefingers

Another example is Ubuntu vs Unix/Linux. I personally think the two sites are fine as is, because Ubuntu as a distribution often serves people new to Linux. Whereas, I think for Unix/Linux, the question level is likely to be slightly more advanced... more of the hows and whys of Unix-systems than just "how do I do X in Ubuntu?" It's a subtle difference with a fair amount of overlap, but there are different senses I think - correct me if I'm wrong @Gilles, you know more about U&L than I do!

I think the physical security/it security question is the same... are the communities sufficiently overlapping? Or do you serve two different needs... one for defending computer networks and all that entails, and one for physical access like bank vaults, security personnel, lighting etc.

I don't necessarily know the answer to that I don't think

Gilles

U&L is ok with basic questions too

But there's a difference in the kinds of answers you get on Ask Ubuntu versus Unix and Linux

AU tends to give you an answer that works out of the box on Ubuntu, often through the GUI and with screenshots, requiring little effort to apply on Ubuntu but possibly not applicable to other distributions or other desktop environments

U&L tends to give you an answer that might require a little more effort (e.g. you might need to translate “install the program foo” into the appropriate package installation method for your distribution), but can be distribution-agnostic

Ninefingers

00:32

That's what I thought... different needs. People new to Linux/just using Ubuntu want that kind of answer Ask Ubuntu provides. Perhaps "advanced" is the wrong word really. So the question is, on this site, would physical security people get the kind of answers they come looking for?

Gilles

@Ninefingers I think they would, as long as there's enough of a subcommunity on the particular topic

I don't think adding physical security to this site's topic will harm IT security people in any way

Iszi

@Gilles I was just about to pose that question: How many of our active users regularly deal with PhySec from more than just an auditing perspective?

Gilles

The rejection here is mostly “I don't care about it so it shouldn't be on my site”

I'm more concerned about physical security people: at least initially, they'll be drowned in the mass of questions they don't care about, and it's hard to bootstrap that way

Iszi

@Gilles A little of that, and because this site through its entire maturation has been specifically geared toward just IT Security, with a little sprinkling of more general infosec here and there.

Gilles

@Iszi I have no idea, and that's one of the key issues for a successful scope extension: there needs to be people who can bridge the gap, ask borderline it-sec/phys-sec questions, judge the answers of new participants, generally make phys-sec people feel welcome

@Iszi That's why I pushed the broadening early on, but let's not rehash that

Iszi

00:39

To make that far of a departure from the site's definition this late in the game (post-graduation) is just a little preposterous. If there was a real need for those questions to be here, it would/should have been noticed and acted upon in the months-long public beta phase at the latest. As it is, it wasn't and so it is probably more appropriate for those questions to be on their own site, or at least one separate from here.

Scott Pack

@Iszi I deal with physical security issues fairly regularly.

Design review, recommendations, managing physical access control, etc.

Ninefingers

@ScottPack when you say design review/recommendations, what of? The reason I ask is because if it's just buildings, as in any building, that's a different thing to "server farm" or some other computer network setup

Scott Pack

@Ninefingers Well, this partially goes back to my dislike of the T in our name :)

Yes, it could be as obvious as, "The door leading from the loading dock to the data center floor has a gap large enough to slip a pen knife through. Installing a plate thusly will mitigate that risk."

Or talking to an academic department about how to control physical access to the file cabinets that store their student records.

Ninefingers

Hmmm ok. I honestly don't know the answer myself - both are clearly security, but one clearly involves information systems in the electronic sense where one doesn't involve the electronic bit

Gilles

@ScottPack Interesting. Would your job be significantly different if you were protecting a warehouse storing trade goods, or a vault containing precious jewels?

the answer to that is a very strong argument for or against the I in the name

Scott Pack

00:50

@Ninefingers To me it's all just information that needs to be protected. Student records or healthcare information is information is information, whether it's on paper or on a hard drive.

Iszi

I can definitely say that, while I deal with physical security on occasion from a compliance auditing standpoint, my position probably wouldn't even exist (let alone would I be qualified for it) if the organization didn't have computer systems.

Scott Pack

@Gilles Probably, yes? It's hard to say conclusively. The level at which the physical security goes would be a big deal.

I don't deal at all in man power security, for instance.

@Iszi I can say that as well, but that's because my department didn't really exist before The Great Computer Breach of 2006.

Ninefingers

@Gilles @ScottPack I can see the generic case for there being overlap... I guess my question is would someone looking to protect a warehouse have enough in common with a (currently) IT focused crowd and would a discussion on such measures fit alongside the questions we already have?

Iszi

@ScottPack Yeah, you could pretty much substitute "position" for "department" in my statement as well. Not sure when/how my department specifically was formed, but I know a few people have been in the group for a while - especially the firewall guys.

Scott Pack

@Gilles I don't deal with surveillance either, however I would get involved in the design of a surveillance system to protect the system itself.

Gilles

00:54

@ScottPack What's the difference then? How is protecting access to a warehouse different from protecting access to a datacenter (assuming they're of comparable value)?

@ScottPack Ok, you don't, but surely surveillance of a datacenter is already on-topic here. So why not accept surveillance of other kinds of buildings?

Ninefingers

So I guess my point is: like U&L/AU serve slightly different needs, and SF/SU serve different audiences, and MO/MSE serve different audiences, is physical security like surveillance and personal physical security and bank vault design a different audience to what we have already here?

Iszi

@Gilles In my world, the people protecting physical access to "the warehouse" are an entirely separate organization (different company for that matter) than the people protecting the datacenter.

Scott Pack

@Gilles I'm probably the wrong person to be asking those questions, really. I seem to have a broader view of Information Security, than a lot of other guys here :)

To me the distinction primarily comes down to what you're protecting, and those can certainly drive the how.

Iszi

@Ninefingers I think that, if there can be a divide between SF/SU (and even there has a good bit of overlap) then there's definitely a case for dividing PhySec & ITSec.

Scott Pack

The only "security" people outside this field I've dealt with were police, so I'm not really sure exactly what the differences would be.

Gilles

00:58

@Iszi SF/SU is essentially pro/amateur. That's very different from physec/itsec.

Iszi

@Gilles Arguably. I see it as more client/server distinction.

Even then, we managed to somehow get our own separation from SOFU.

Gilles

@Iszi It isn't. For example, the SF FAQ says it's for “system administrators and desktop support professionals”.

Scott Pack

@Iszi Given the discussions I've had with full time sysadmins and developers, we have extraordinarily different points of views on most things :)

Iszi

@ScottPack Oh, that is definitely agreed.

Gilles

and conversely questions about running a server on a home machine are within SU's domain, not SF

Scott Pack

01:02

@Iszi And also, as clearly discussed, covers more than SF/SO.

@Gilles As per sysadmin1134's recent blog post, also depends on the purpose behind the home server as well.

Iszi

I just know that when I want to ask a question about a client OS, I go to SU. If I'm asking about a server OS, I go to SF.

If either has to do with security, I come here.

Ninefingers

I'm personally just sitting on the fence asking the questions at the moment. On the whole splitting things different ways, it doesn't matter what it is, but more the perspective. That's what a target audience has. Do IT security people have a different perspective to physical security people? Are different bases of knowledge required, or are the processes really all very similar. Who is the target audience and what do they want in terms of questions? It's all very much shades of gray,

Iszi

And then there's the odd occasional Mac/Linux/Ubuntu question that for some reason each have their own domain...

Ninefingers

I don't think or expect there'll be a definite answer to those questions

I say perspective because server admins/desktop support see things differently to a home user building a gaming desktop, even though it's all running computers

Gilles

@Iszi That is not a distinction between SU and SF. Most major OSes (any unix, Windows) can be both anyway.

Scott Pack

01:06

@Ninefingers Can be quite different. Talking to the folks that actually run and operate the Key Shop (i.e. cut keys, manage cores, etc), we see quite a bit totally eye to eye.

Iszi

@Gilles XP as a server? You make my head hurt.

Scott Pack

However, physical access management is the only thing we actually have in common, professionally. Nothing else I do relates to them, and vice versa.

@Iszi Don't get me started.

Oo, the kid's finally down, so it's time for me to get some quality wife time. G'night Gents.

Gilles

@Ninefingers I think it's like SO. I can't code in C# or Java or Objective C or C++, so that means I don't really understand most questions on SO. Yet we can all live on the same site, we have enough in common. As Joel puts it, it's all the same university department.

I think it's the same for security. Of course you can be a pentester and know nothing about locksmithing. But the core issues are close enough that the two can cohabit.

Iszi

@Gilles You can't code in those languages now, but you have the same basic knowledge level and skill set to learn to do so relatively easily. In fact, you probably could answer some questions in languages you don't really know with just what you know about coding in general. The same doesn't hold true for an IT Sec guy looking to be a locksmith or police officer.

Ninefingers

Anyway, I also need to disappear. Have fun working this one out.

Iszi

01:11

@Ninefingers Oh, this'll probably take days at least - if not weeks. We'll have plenty of fun left for you to share when you get back, I'm sure.

Gilles

@Iszi Doesn't it? Programmers raised on imperative languages tend to have a lot of trouble with Lisp or Haskell. Not everything is straightforward.

And it's waaaaay past my bedtime, so I'm going to quit for the ~~day~~ night too. TTYL

Stack Exchange

05:03

Stack Overflow Blog: Supporting Community Conferences

Posted by Jeff Atwood on August 3rd, 2011

One fun way to promote your community is to consider what upcoming conferences, seminars, conventions, events, or meetups appeal to your community and would be a good opportunity to attract new, high quality users who love this stuff as much as we do!

There are a bunch of ways the community team can support you in this; to date we’ve done the following.

One simple method of promoting your community is to have a one-page color flyer available to hand out to interested folks at events. We’ve created a few of these already, such as this one for gis.stackexchange.com …

nealmcb

@Gilles I see the BlackHat and Usenix Security conferences as more evidence that IT Sec and physical security folks do well in community together. I think phy sec folks would really benefit from the attitude of the infosec crowd - from what I've seen the phy sec folks can rely way too much on tradition and silly theatrical rules

@Iszi And physical security certainly came up in the beta period, without much controversy either. certainly a base to build on, as we choose

Ori

06:31

bsides seems to be much more interesting to me. I've attended Black Hat for a few years and always found most of the topics interesting, but the talks rather lacking. There are some exceptions to the rule, but I think next year I will forgo the BH talk schedule and attend the greyhat conferences since they contain much more relevant information.

From a phys security perspective anyways.

M'vy

07:42

@Iszi you should link the transcript in your twitter post. Not the chat room.

Graham Lee

@AviD thanks AviD, though I don't think I need sorrow/commiserations. I want to do things that I can't do on my own, so I'm going to find somewhere I can do them ;)

Rory Alsop

@GrahamLee Best of luck - there is high demand across the industry for anyone with Infosec experience. I don't know enough about the Mac specific side but will keep my eyes open for opportunities which may suit you

@nealmcb Loads of overlap - both from the professional risk management side, and the keen hobbyist/amateur

@JeffFerland @Ori - Blackhat is good for corporate meeting and greeting, Defcon: very intense, with some amazing cutting edge content - but has become more corporate since it's early days, BSides: very community focused. All have great networking opportunities. Value for money: top - BSides, then Defcon, then BlackHat

morning @Caleb

morning @Mvy

M'vy

08:02

HI @Rory

Rory Alsop

Looks like @Gilles, @Ninefingers, @Iszi, @ScottPack chat very valuable last night

slowly trawling the transcript

Caleb

@RoryAlsop G'morning

Rory Alsop

If we can get the wider community involved we should be able to get a sensible consensus on whether to slightly widen scope of the site, and how to do it

AviD

08:53

gmorning

@RoryAlsop long transcript, innit...

I see the common prediliction of ITsec pros, to muck around in physical security, such as lockpicking, much like that many programmers also like building robots - but that doesnt mean it should be in scope at SO.

Sure, there is a lot in common, both in community and in concepts, but its not the same site.

And sure, there are some exceptions, where you're writing code for a robot - that would be a clear overlap.

but in general, I don't think anyone ever claimed SO should include robot building. It just doesnt make sense.

even though they often get along, have a lot to talk about, or see eye-to-eye.

@Iszi I see that in most places - completely seperate organizations protecting infosec and physsec. which is often related to building management, in some way, and in the common case mostly (though never completely) about things like security guards.

M'vy

What [are/was] the proposal that failed for phys security?

Rory Alsop

The physical stuff which is really risk assessment/management is much closer to in-scope than the application of physical security (as you mentioned - this is probably best left to a martial artse SE :-)

AviD

@StackExchange @rebeccachernoff oo, is this an answer to my OWASP sponsorship?

@RoryAlsop I think part of the reason the physsec proposal failed/is failing, is because martial arts would be offtopic there too - or, intense overlap with martial arts proposal(s). And personal weapons. And....

btw @Gilles I'm lovin' the @@ secret mod cheat you showed us! brilliant!

Rory Alsop

@AviD it's good eh:-)

AviD

@RoryAlsop hey, it got @GrahamLee back in here... :D

Rory Alsop

09:03

@AviD I think it could be readable that way

@AviD ahhh - is that how you grabbed him

AviD

@RoryAlsop :)

Rory Alsop

I like the business cards idea - very practical at most of the events I host/attend - which aren't at con scale, but valuable networking

AviD

@rebeccachernoff I am speaking, too, so if that helps with the "speaker bureau" thing...

Rory Alsop

and have you seen @Zuly's twitter posts - she's doing great work

AviD

@RoryAlsop ah no, I'm not on twuttar.

M'vy

09:05

Zuly?

AviD

but I expect she would do...

@Mvy Zuly.

Zuly Gonzalez, Baltimore, MD

137 6

she's also a mod at OnStartups.

M'vy

Right.

Added.

AviD

@Ninefingers overall, I think you're right about the community and such - since it is a different topic, its worth looking at.

Rory Alsop

@AviD I hadn't heard of her, but now I follow on twitter I see how active she is

AviD

and, at least in the stereotype, physsec guys are the ones giving out wedgies and swirlies to the infosec guys...

2

not a very conducive mixture...

though I do find that often infosec pros are also very physsec, by choice.

e.g. take a look at jeremiah grossman - winning BJJ tournaments all over the place.

(no, @ScottPack, that's not dirty.... )

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (, ) (BJJ) is a martial art, combat sport, and a self defense system that focuses on grappling and especially ground fighting. The art was derived from the Japanese martial art of Kodokan judo in the early 20th century. It teaches that a smaller, weaker person can successfully defend against a bigger, stronger assailant by using leverage and proper technique—most notably by applying joint-locks and chokeholds to defeat the other person. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training can be used for sport grappling tournaments (gi and no-gi) and mixed martial arts (MMA) competitio...

@RoryAlsop ah, I ran into her on OnStartups a while back, and realized she's also in the security space.

Rory Alsop

09:11

@AviD aren't all security folks into cool sports? I had a hunt around for folks into the same ones as me, and there are a large number who are into martial arts, climbing, sailing, snowboarding, flying, motor racing etc

all good

I assumed it was to make up for the lack of exercise sat at a desk 15 hours a day

(that's my excuse, anyway)

M'vy

meta-posted!

This merge is gonna be problematic

Rory Alsop

@Mvy interesting thoughts

AviD

@RoryAlsop eh, I'm not as extreme... but thats just cuz I'm a lazy git.

I would be more into it, if I had the time/energy/funds.

Rory Alsop

@AviD I'm lazy - just hide it well. I'm really very shy too :-)

@Mvy I was thinking a full merge just wouldn't work, but cherry picking appropriate topics to build on our core could

AviD

@RoryAlsop ah yeah, can tell by your makeup ;)

Rory Alsop

09:18

@AviD crying on the inside ;-P

AviD

@RoryAlsop but that wouldnt necessitate a rescoping, just adjusting the FAW slightly...

M'vy

Well, I'm a bit concerned on the rescoping change. That's not something we see everyday

FAW?

First Aid at Work?

AviD

@Mvy like wildebeest. local pronounciation of FAQ.

I dunno, ask @GrahamLee

Rory Alsop

@Mvy heh heh - very very long story

began with a typo

M'vy

Hm

Rory Alsop

09:20

and .... escalated

as is often the way of things - through topic #2

AviD

as things do.

Rory Alsop

(food - animals, the eating of)

AviD

speak of the @devil!

Graham Lee

hello

Rory Alsop

@GrahamLee morning sir

anything I can do extra in getting your CV out aside from the RT?

Graham Lee

09:21

morning @RoryAlsop @AviD @*

AviD

mornin

actually, almost lunchtime here....

Rory Alsop

ooh - does @* work? That would be great

a hello to all in chat at the time

Graham Lee

@RoryAlsop if you hear of someone hiring, keep me in mind.

AviD

@Mvy I think part of the problem is we're looking at this the wrong way.

Rory Alsop

specifically Mac, I'm guessing, but would you accept wider infosec?

Graham Lee

09:23

I've already got a few interviews lined up. But there's a lot of people who just want Yet Another ObjC Developer™, which I don't think I need to do any more :-D

M'vy

The wrong way?

Rory Alsop

eg Sophos were hiring for a head of channel development requiring top sec and risk skills

not as tichnical as you can do, but interesting role

AviD

Not "oo can we take that proposition and add it to ours", but at this point it should be "Are we missing anything by not having it. Do we have holes in our coverage"

Graham Lee

probably not technical enough

so I'm looking for strategic technologist roles

Rory Alsop

gotcha - will keep an ear/eye out

@AviD Good view

Graham Lee

09:24

I think before I worked at Sophos again I would compare the 2008 org chart to the 2011 org chart :-D

AviD

@RoryAlsop and, I think the answer right now is a clear cut "Maybe".

M'vy

@AviD Hum Yes, I don't thing we lack of scope. InfoSec question are on-topic at last.

AviD

actually, its more a question of cherrypicking, as you said - but I really think its about small, niche-ish topics

Rory Alsop

@GrahamLee ahh - of course, I forgot that you had been there

AviD

and since they are not explicitly excluded, we'd naturally deal with them as/if they come up.

Graham Lee

09:25

Anyone else notice that crypto.se just went into beta?

M'vy

@GrahamLee yep

Tried it yesterday.

Rory Alsop

just got into public, yes

M'vy

But I'm not a mathematician.

AviD

@GrahamLee I was amused by the email: "private beta for the last 7 days", umm no... template fail.

M'vy

Though I understand the deal.

Rory Alsop

09:26

@Thomas made a good point regarding where crypto sits wrt sec wrt maths

we get the implementation/usage aspects of crypt

Graham Lee

There's definitely a difference between cryptanalysis and deploying crypto

@RoryAlsop that.

Rory Alsop

having him so active in both camps will help re migrating questions to the right site

AviD

@RoryAlsop I think that makes great sense, though I'd heard opinions contrary to that.

including @Thomas's at first, before he changed his tune.

Rory Alsop

if you have a look at their current scope it all makes sense

think there was a fair bit of tweaking required

Graham Lee

e.g. I can barely comprehend the matrix mathematics that go on inside AES, but I can definitely tell you whether you're using it right

AviD

09:28

@GrahamLee ditto

Rory Alsop

yep

and while there are folks like @nealmcb, @Thomas and @D.W. who seem to know all sides, I know of a few crypto folks who know the maths inside out, but don't seem to be able to connect it to the real world at all:-)

Graham Lee

I did implement AES 128 once, in BBC BASIC.

@RoryAlsop I've seen that too.

Rory Alsop

@GrahamLee you should get an achievement badge for that

Graham Lee

:D

M'vy

@RoryAlsop How would you call that?

AviD

09:33

@GrahamLee absolutely - especially around real-world issues such as key management.

Graham Lee

@Mvy masochist

AviD

@GrahamLee lol!!

M'vy

XD

AviD

@RoryAlsop speaking of, we need to start bugging @Jin/@Rebecca/etc to get us more site-personalized stuff.

M'vy

@AviD : bump the wallpaper meta-topic :P

AviD

09:35

such as @Iszi's chateaster eggs, specific migration targets / close reasons (Not Ethical, anyone?), etc

@Mvy yeah that too. But I mean more the stuff that goes beyond CSS...

M'vy

:P

AviD

have you seen some of the cool stuff on some other sites? jeeeeaaalouuuus

Rory Alsop

yes; and also, especially for public speakers, moderators etc - the stuff linked to in the blog post earlier: business cards, flyers, t-shirts.

@AviD which stuff?

don't think I have seen it

Graham Lee

A t-shirt with the security.se lion logo would be awesome. Especially if it glows in the dark and has lasers.

M'vy

Gaming never received their lasers for the mothership. They are sold out.

Rory Alsop

09:37

lasers for a mothership?

M'vy

Let me dig this :P

53

Q: Make the mothership shoot its lasers on hover.

All trilogy sites, and almost all other SE2.0 sites, have a hover effect on their "ask question" button. It can be argued the "ask question" button looks less "clickable" than how it looks in all the other family sites, it's very close to a decoration and thus really needs some way to emphasize ...

feature-request design lazers

Rory Alsop

very nice

@Avid / @M'vy - is there a list of typical things other sites have, with example links? Like the laser idea

M'vy

Maybe we shall start a meta: "Tools for grown-ups" XD

AviD

@RoryAlsop dont think so... but there should be.

I asked Jin about it, at some point - he kinda brought it back to the CSS and stuff.

and even our upvote/downvote/favorite/flag-comment/etc icons are boring!

well, gotta go do some work...

ttfn

Rory Alsop

09:54

In looking at what happened on some other sites, they started meta posts asking for graphics for those sorts of things

@AviD see you later

Graham Lee

10:32

Probably only of interest to @RoryAlsop, but I just heard Taking Dawn's cover of the chain by Fleetwood Mac. :-D

Rory Alsop

@GrahamLee Oooh - how was it

it is an all time classic, but I have rarely heard anyone do it justice

Graham Lee

10:58

it was good. It wasn't an attempt to sound like Fleetwood Mac

Rory Alsop

is it available online - can't easily search from here

Graham Lee

It's on we7.com - I don't know whether I can directly link to the tune

@RoryAlsop we7.com/#/album/Taking-Dawn/Time-To-Burn

Rory Alsop

11:15

Cool - will look later

Scott Pack

11:28

@RoryAlsop Indeed. Before children I was an avid backpacker and lowscale freeclimber. I can't wait till she's old enough to go out camping.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack won't be long...our youngest loved camping from before her 4th birthday

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop We have a few drive up camp sites that tend to be pretty empty most of the time. I think I may start with those to see how it goes.

You know, before we trek 8 miles into the wilderness to find a nice flat space beside some water :)

Rory Alsop

hahahaha - yes. we did the same - a local campsite with good facilities reasonably near a pub.

the 2nd time we went to a clifftop campsite at the other end of the country in driving rain and gales:-)

Scott Pack

The ones I'm thinking of are still a few country highway miles away from the nearest pub analog. Of course, that also means that they're only a few miles away from town and home.

Graham Lee

Getting bored of this excuse for the internet's poor security: "the internet was built without security in mind. When the people who created the internet were working on it, they had no idea that the system would be spread worldwide to hundreds of countries around the world."

THE INTERNET WAS A DEFENCE PROJECT

How about this: "the internet was built by the lowest bidder in a short-sighted US government contract war."

deep breath

Rory Alsop

11:41

@GrahamLee well...not exactly. It was for sharing information throughout DARPA, but wasn't expected to be connected to 'other stuff'

Scott Pack

I don't necessarily think those statements are contradictory.

To use some modern pointy hair phrases, they were designing more for availability than integrity.

With the assumption that it was a closed system that only trusted parties could access.

Graham Lee

which is a bit like leaving the gun cabinet unlocked because only trusted people can get past the sentry post.

Scott Pack

12:11

@GrahamLee I never claimed it involved any forward thinking, only that a slightly different perspective can make the situation make sense :)

Iszi

13:12

@Mvy Am I missing something? Which transcript, what post?

M'vy

Twitter

Iszi

@Mvy Which?

M'vy

twitter.com/#!/IsraelZulu/status/98820715121352704

Iszi

@RoryAlsop I apparently left the browser open at work, and came back to (from last night) 466 posts, and 17 @mentions.

@Mvy Oh, good point. Little late now. I figured the quote was there well enough.

M'vy

Well sure. But there is no context now. Anyway... just a remark.

Rory Alsop

13:15

@Iszi :-) was a busy evening

Scott Pack

That's what she said.

Rory Alsop

I thought comedy was just Wednesdays...?

Scott Pack

?

What day is it?

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Good luck with that. I think there's a very small subset of the "wider community" that actually participates in Meta, let alone Chat.

Scott Pack

@Iszi On the flip side, meta and chat are the designated places to discuss those kinds of issues.

Rory Alsop

13:20

@Iszi My hope is that it is those more enthusiastic members who are the core - and this is broadly borne out if you look at the stats. Who is usually in chat, vs who participates on meta, vs highest rep on sec.se

Scott Pack

Same stance I take to voting. If you can't be bothered to participate, then don't whine when you don't like a decision.

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Business cards? I miss something (again)?

Rory Alsop

@Ninefingers - have reviewed your blog post. Lots of information in there! Very minor changes made - couple of spelling, and added a link to the web-broser tag.

@Iszi blog.stackoverflow.com

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Haven't seen her Twitter yet, but I've seen her around on Sec.SE - generally good posts. Thanks for the link. Followed.

The Evil Phoenix

@Rory can ya check the mod queue for a sec?

there's a NaA that should be moved to a comment

Rory Alsop

13:30

will do

Iszi

@RoryAlsop What did we finally agree that was, anyway? Frequently Attacked Wildebeest?

Rory Alsop

@Iszi that sounds about right

Graham Lee

I thought it was frequently asked wildebeest

Rory Alsop

@TheEvilPhoenix can you pop a link - I can't see the mod queueueue in IE ancient

@GrahamLee Frequently eaten if it hangs around here

Iszi

@RoryAlsop ...and back to food, just like that.

Graham Lee

13:32

@RoryAlsop only if @AviD agrees that it's kosher!

Rory Alsop

I think we did agree that - it meets the rules

The Evil Phoenix

@Rory ignore the flag, the thing was edited to actually be a question :P

ewww

wait

did you say internet explorer ancient????

Rory Alsop

it is a ruminant but has cloven hooves

@TheEvilPhoenix Oh yes - very ancient

The Evil Phoenix

lemme guess

IE6

Graham Lee

@RoryAlsop I didn't ask "would I date it", I asked whether it was kosher :-P

The Evil Phoenix

13:34

@Rory btw link is here ~~> security.stackexchange.com/questions/5943/… <~~

Rory Alsop

IE7, but that's bad enough

The Evil Phoenix

heh

oh thats how you do a strikethrough...

M'vy

Do some guys here wants spotify invite?

The Evil Phoenix

been wonderin that for a while...

Rory Alsop

@Mvy that'd be cool

M'vy

13:37

I'd just need a mail I guess

Rory Alsop

@Iszi on the flyers etc - looking at the lists sorted by meta bizcards and meta swag tags it looks like they are all initiated by @@Jin.

The Evil Phoenix

@Rory that link i gave ya

the response with +4 votes...

they say it should be a comment, but i think it could be an answer as is

could the first sentence in it be removed as such to make it an answer

Scott Pack

Yes, a wildebeast is a horse-cow, so it's kosher.

Rory Alsop

@Mvy - twitter DM sent

Scott Pack

@Mvy I got myself an invite, then found out it was windows/mac only. Assholes.

Rory Alsop

13:39

@Jin - we're definitely interested:-)

Graham Lee

@ScottPack it's an AIR app.

Scott Pack

@GrahamLee They have a beta for Linux, but only for the paid customers.

M'vy

Hmmm why am I receiving blue flags?

Graham Lee

@Mvy getting those myself, even though they're for messages in the English.se chat room

M'vy

yes they are

Graham Lee

13:42

I just hit "not sure" and they go away - will raise a bug report soon

M'vy

@RoryAlsop: mail should be gone

Scott Pack

Speaking of swag, when do you suppose they'll go through and send out the care package to the top users? Anyone have a notion of how long they usually wait?

M'vy

Oh, it disapeared

(the flags)

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack dunno - I had a look through some of the other ones but it's hard to guess at what stage they were at when they sent them out. For the initial trilogy the sites were already huge, but for some of the others we are about that sort of size

It looks like they get a really positive response from contributors when t-shirts etc go out

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop So that's the question, I suppose. Do they wait until a site gets ${X} big, or some rough approximation of ${TIME} after graduation.

Rory Alsop

13:46

doesn't look like one or the other - maybe they have an algorithm, maybe they just pick a time they aren't too busy, or folks are back from summer golidays...

dunno

Scott Pack

As a single data point, the Apple site has a lot more registered users, however the rep spread over the first two pages is pretty similar.

Their lowest rep user who received a care package is (currently) in the 800s, and ours is in the 500s. Their packages also went out at the end of June.

Iszi

@AviD Oh yeah, we definitely need a "Not Ethical/Blackhat" close reason.

nealmcb

@GrahamLee This is an urban legend. The Internet was funded by DARPA, but by academics as a way for folks to get to different computers across the country from one terminal. networkworld.com/columnists/2004/0607johnson.html

M'vy

@Iszi I can haz "Close reason: The user's a moron" ?

Scott Pack

@Iszi Would that be different than Not Constructive?

Iszi

13:51

@ScottPack Slightly, since I still read "Not Constructive" as "the close reason formerly known as S&M".

Scott Pack

@Iszi Well, it took the place of S&M, but reading the actual reason it was expanded out to be more useful.

Rory Alsop

did you know we have a newsletter?

stackexchange.com/newsletters/…

Iszi

Why is it that the link to "your subscriptions page on StackExchange.com" is just a self-reference? I wanna subscribe, but need to get to that page to do it.

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