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12:00 AM
@Iszi well sure, but it would be for cool's sake only. As I said, no ssl, too open dev-side, weak-ish authentication, etc...
 
SE sites all use OpenID for authentication?
And authorization is built into SE?
 
yes, and pretty much.
my comment about weakish authentication is in regard to trust boundaries.
7
A: How does using OpenID affect webapp security?

AviDI think it makes sense to offer signup via OpenId, but not require it, even for ecommerce websites. The reason for this, is that tech-savvy users (still the core userbase for openid) can decide whether to take that risk, or not. The sites that I would not recommend using OpenId, are either hig...

 
Yes, that is a fundamental issue.
 
and in general, for SE, its fine - more than fine, even.
but I wouldnt rely on it for supersensitive info...
thats why ROT13 is good enough - its for wowsies, not real security...
 
I was just wondering if SE did a model for privilege and robustness
Ah, aparently you dno't know how paranoid I am. I only have one OpenID account and I only use it on one website.
 
12:12 AM
@thisjosh ha! I have TWO, and I only use them BOTH on just the one website.
well, family of websites, anyway...
 
Any passwords/crypto variable of value I keep in encrypted flash and it is never outside of my immediate physical control, yes even when sleeping.
 
hmm. Well, I have items of much more value in my house, than any password, key, or anthing else that can be stored on flash.
It's about risk model, really... digital info is trivial in value, in relation to my family :)
okay wait, I just read how sappy that sounds...
 
Yes I agree, family is more valuable. I'm just paranoid.
 
now, if I still lived in my parents house... well, I wouldnt trust my siblings... ;)
 
not allowed to install physical security into your parent's house?
 
12:18 AM
heh, if the malicious entity is a legal resident, why bother? ;)
well, enough trash talk... gotta go sleepies. gnite all
 
for the pics to post on the internet?
 
ha!
 
night AviD
 
I wonder how many people really use OpenID broadly. SEI is the only place that I use it.
 
@thisjosh Indeed. The key is Scott's note that "the assumption that it was a closed system that only trusted parties could access." So they didn't complicate the protocols with security, and many of the mechanisms we use now were not even known outside the spook community.
 
12:22 AM
Yes there are a few good books on that.
I remember hearing a story one that an America crypto crusader had an algorithm tatood on his body and dared the authroities to prevent him from leaving the country as an export
2
 
@thisjosh I wore the infamous RSA Perl T-Shirt (cypherspace.org/rsa) thru Heathrow back when it was theoretically a crime. No one paid any attention....
 
Wasn't that DeCSS?
 
And hey - I just posted the link....
Later folks....
 
I like the part that says "Warning: This man is classified as a munition."
:1539746I think that was just commerical/civil law.
 
12:34 AM
@thisjosh Yo mama's so crypto, she's classified as a munition for export control purposes!
3
 
@ScottPack You mama's so large she needs GF(2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2) to crypt her ass.
3
 
Excellent
 
I can remember if the notation is GF[x] or GF(x)
the tatoo may be a bitch to remove but you get to say: back in my day I was classified as a munition...
 
 
6 hours later…
6:13 AM
0
Q: Which encryption algo should be best for an Android application

user3513I am confused about to use of DES. Triple DES, RSA and AES algorithms, I think I couldn't get more idea about them, so I am not able to think which algo would be better. My Task : I am developing an application who sends an encrypted String to PHP server, and PHP server decrypt it, and sends re...

 
 
1 hour later…
7:32 AM
Anyone want to weigh in on whether Stack Exchange OpenID tokens should be single-use or time-limited?
21
Q: Stackoverflow OpenID Hack : Login with return URL

Govind KamalaPrakash MalviyaI am reading OpenID in depth. I found a bug / hack. I think this is not good thing in openid. let me explain what I did :- clear all history of my Firefox. Login into Stackoveflow with Google signout from stackoveflow and Google. check history and copy google OpenID return (like http://stackov...

 
7:53 AM
@ScottPack Use it on different sites like sourceforge, some forum and private apps.
Hi DMZ!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:30 AM
@ScottPack I only use it here as well
@Gilles You can only use it for n minutes. if n is small enough, then I'm happy. Wonder what n is though
 
 
1 hour later…
10:48 AM
morning
 
11:17 AM
@GrahamLee - afternoon
 
indeed. How goes it?
BTW I just removed myself from "The Firewall": I don't see why we need a mod chatroom
 
arr - @AviD and I did the same. I think it's relevant for something the size of SO, but not here. We spot flags pretty quickly
Not doing too bad - getting into gig mode now
one week left at current client
 
cool
 
@GrahamLee took me a while to figure out how to remove myself from that chatroom:-)
slowly learning about SE
 
@GrahamLee!
 
11:27 AM
@Scott!
 
@Mvy I think SEI is the only place I've seen that allows for OpenID auth. Of course, I haven't logged into SF in aeons.
Morning Gents
 
Hi @scott, @GrahamLee and @RoryAlsop
 
Afternoon @Mvy
Hi @HendrikBrummermann
 
sighs
G'day Gents and Germans!
 
@ScottPack do we have any Australians yet?
 
11:31 AM
@RoryAlsop Hello Rory.
 
Drat. I think I missed the scathing retort :)
@RoryAlsop Not that I know of
 
So - it's another Friday - we seem to be getting a lot of traffic from BlackHat/BSides/Defcon so far, thanks to @Zuly, @Jeff and others.
A good week
 
oh
You have the blog stats I assume?
 
yep - blog stats are still small compared to site stats, but growing
:-)
 
You have mod-stats on security?
 
11:35 AM
yarr :-)
lovely graphs
 
How did you get your grubby hands on those graphs?!?
 
little blue diamonds - magic:-)
 
Curses!
 
looks like wiggly lines, low each weekend, peaking Tues/Wed and steadily rising at a greater and greater rate. (technical analysis complete)
 
:P
Week end are indeed low frequentation.
 
11:37 AM
@Jeff - published your BSides day 1 post - it looks good, and timeliness is good on this one.
 
Hi everyone who said hi: kindof in a different room eating lunch at the moment.
 
No problem, I'm eating breakfast and reading the Velveteen Rabbit.
Nice to know that Tuesday and Wednesday are are high days, though.
 
Hey, don't you think we shoud request {text-align: justify} on the blog?
Or should we took care of that in our post ?
 
@Mvy - not sure I understand...
 
talking about text alignement
we have currently align left on all sites.
for the paragraphs
 
11:52 AM
posted on August 05, 2011 by Jeff Ferland

This week in Las Vegas is Christmas for security. In listening to four talks today, I’ve come to conclude that the community suffers from a real lack of discussion about interacting with management, mandatory access controls need to be enhanced to focus on applications, the SSL system is irreparably broken and DNSSEC really should replace [...]

 
12:16 PM
@Mvy there is a button to select full justification, wonder whether that should be the default... will have a think
 
@RoryAlsop on the blog?
BTW I think I'll look to write a user-script
 
yep on the blog editing, drafting page
 
since DMA in gaming think justify is too risky because of anomalies within a block of text
 
need to think about next week's QOTW - selection and volunteer to write:
1
Q: Vote for your Question of the Week #5

Rory AlsopFor QOTW #5, scheduled for publishing to the Security Stack Exchange Blog on 12 August, please post as Answers, and vote for your favorite question from the whole Security Stackexchange site. The question doesn't have to be recent, just discussion-worthy. Please post any question that you feel...

 
Oh nice, we got a button to our blog on the top bar
 
12:20 PM
excellent
 
Nice!
 
not in IE7...
 
Wasn't IE7 released before Tim Berners-Lee invented the web?</troll>
 
just about... and wasn't it Al Gore
;-P
 
No, he invented Al Gore Ithms
 
12:28 PM
I guess I asked for that
 
Indirectly.
 
12:55 PM
mornin
 
Hi @TheEvilPhoenix
 
Hi all!
 
Morning
 
Hi @jmendeth
 
Can someone help me with those iptables rules...
0
Q: Redirection with IPTABLES while hiding the original port

jmendethSo, I have my Glassfish server is listening on port 8080. However, I want to have my requests at port 80 while hiding 8080, so that people think my server really runs at 80. How can I do it with iptables? I have tried the following rule: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j...

I found no way to do it in the whole internet.
And I'm a newbie.
 
1:02 PM
Woow.. iptables. Long time not used.
 
Afternoon @Thee
 
@RoryAlsop Depends on the country :-P
 
@jmendeth Had a quick look at @Janne's answer, and although it has been a while since I had to tweak iptables, it looks reasonable.
@jmendeth heh - you're on @Scott and @Iszi side of the pond then
 
I've never done NATing with iptables, but like @RoryAlsop said, the answer looks reasonable.
 
@RoryAlsop Yeah, I tried it (see my question) but still no result.
 
1:10 PM
To be honest I've always used a proxy when I've needed to hide a port for whatever reason
although.... is there a special reason you want people to think you run your server on 80?
 
running the server on 80 is a great way to achieve that
 
Hey, @RoryAlsop. Does the prerouting chain get processed before the input chain?
 
@GrahamLee LOL
 
@GrahamLee If I run the server on 80 he needs root privileges.
But this can affect security
So I prefer to redirect.
 
@jmendeth Or have it start as a service
 
1:13 PM
What @ScottPack said.
 
Actually, I have it start as a service, but from a restricted user.
 
@ScottPack that is how most folks do it
 
That way it will bind to port 80 and then revert back to a regular service account
 
Web servers like httpd don't run as root any more to bind to port 80, you use a superserver like xinetd or launchd to bind, then drop to normal user to launch the server.
 
@RoryAlsop Including apache
 
1:14 PM
Mmmm...
 
@GrahamLee launchd? It was a nice idea, but nobody in their right mind actually uses it.
 
I'm very newbie on this topics.
But it seems to be the best option.
 
Find a relatively short init script and start looking at it.
 
The "low-numbered ports require root" thing was a bit of a gentlemen's agreement that worked well in the early days of *nix networking, but is pretty meaningless now.
 
There's a function in there called "daemon" that will let you start a process as a specific user
 
1:15 PM
@jmendeth not to worry. You may find SU or SO folks more current on the actual implementation, whereas over here we are more concerned with sorting the security aspects
 
I've got no different reason to trust you as root on a remote box than I do you as you on a remote box.
@ScottPack that implies around 200M people in the world are out of their right minds…
whereas everybody loves them some System V init :-P
 
@GrahamLee Well, more like a few dozen crazy developers :)
 
@GrahamLee I think the number is much higher:-)
 
@ScottPack Where may I find those init scripts?
@RoryAlsop Yes
 
@jmendeth /etc/init.d
I actually liked OSX, until I became the sysadmin of one. I learned to hate launchd with the passion of a thousand suns.
:1542639 Ah, all of the best examples are stored within /etc/int.d
 
1:18 PM
Apache, for example?
 
Try it out
Some of them will be much more complicated than others
Your best bet would be to find a service that you have running, runs as a non-root user, and has a small byte count
The flow-capture service is probably a beautiful example. It's short, simple, does exactly what you want, but is almost definitely not on your system.
 
No problem, I can look on other sites. Thanks all for your help!
Bye!
 
lolol...
 
oop - gotta go. my car is fixed. gonna be expensive, but at least they fixed it in time for my 4 hour drive to the gig tomorrow
catch you all later
 
1:22 PM
@RoryAlsop Yay!
Enjoy
 
i got a site taken down yesterday from their VPS host due to theft of intellectual property and for hosting a malicious script that intercepts passwords as plaintext...
and they recovered quickly...
while still using said intellectual property
looks through the lawbooks federal lawsuits, here I come. :P
anyways hows things here
 
DMCA is what you're looking for
 
@ScottPack it, along with service management framework, works really well in 10.6 and above IMO. It was crappy in 10.4 and just sufficient in 10.5.
 
@GrahamLee That's good to hear. The most recent version that I had to administer was 10.5, I've just been a user of 10.6
 
The only thing it's still bad at is the thing no-one ever used anyway, by which I mean completely screwy cron edge cases.
 
1:28 PM
How do you mean?
Or, more specifically, define "screwy".
 
Mornin'
I miss anything interesting?
 
so you can do things like "every 5 minutes", or "every hour at *:15"
 
@Iszi not really
 
you can't do 1-7,9,26 * 2,5,8 * * *
 
@Iszi you missed me starting to write up a federal criminal and civil lawsuit, but meh
 
1:30 PM
@GrahamLee Ah, yeah, that sucks.
I remember trying to do cron jobs in 10.4 and finding it extraordinarily painful.
 
@ScottPack thing is, launchd has this UI called "crontab" that you can use for that.
 
@GrahamLee When you say, 'UI' you mean a clicky clicky gui thing, yes?
 
no. I mean a file called crontab.
If you need clicky clicky GUI, try Lingon: peterborgapps.com/lingon
 
Right, I remember using that by the time 10.5 came along. I don't remember it in 10.4
 
1:36 PM
#Juno Fully fueled, the rocket's mass will exceed 1.2 million pounds.
Aren't pounds (outside of the U.K.) a measure of weight, not mass?
 
@Iszi Aren't pounds also a measure of weight within the UK?
 
@RoryAlsop you can test the justify here : pastebin.com/VCh0yPD8 I hope that's working with all browser. Not sure the GM_addStyle is not a GreaseMonkey special action.
 
@ScottPack I know. Just wanting to make sure we didn't get some commentary about currency.
 
@Iszi Fair enough.
 
Okay, now it seems they can't make up their minds what it's going to weigh.
#Juno At launch time, Juno will weigh 7,992 pounds, but more than half is propellant weight. The spacecraft alone weighs in at 3,513 pounds.
 
1:43 PM
Maybe it's mass will be 1.2 million slugs, but weighs 7992 pounds
 
 
@Iszi :P like it! But you are trolling about webkit and so now :P
 
@Mvy Don't blame me. It's today's XKCD. Just thought I'd share, as it seemed amusing.
 
:P
it is indeed
Couldn't resist :P
 
I expect [i] they mean weight throughout; [ii] Juno is a separate entity from its rocket
 
1:53 PM
@GrahamLee Ah, good ponits.
 
Also @RoryAlsop there is a big comment to review on the blog.
 
2:55 PM
Do someone know if security top-user percentage appears on our Careers 2.0 profiles?
 
3:10 PM
@Mvy can't find a way to do it... maybe open that up in meta and tag it as a bug / feature request? That will get the site folks' attention
 
I'm not even sure I have enough for it to appear...
 
@Mvy Thanks for the alert. I approved the comment on wiping a disk. And I noticed that evidently I didn't submit my very similar comment yesterday. Sigh.
 
:P
 
You guys are making me turn DEFCON into a professional work event where I things like write articles and answer questions about job descriptions...
0
Q: Security Manager job description

mipnixI work in a growing, family owned business. The company has 300 employees and has landed some big clients who require major policy changes in order to give us their continued business. Among those changes is the development and implementation of a security policy. I work the IT help desk and sin...

 
@JeffFerland Nice post! Sounds good. But it needs a link to BSidesLV...
 
3:25 PM
@nealmcb And I would have add emphasis
 
@nealmcb d'oh!
 
And for the future, a comparison of the options in LV in Aug....
 
@nealmcb I'll add that to the Day 2 post...
 
You can still edit the current one
ahh - yes for the comparison....
 
Jesus their website sucks to link to. Every wiki edit has a new URL, so you permalink to a revision
 
3:27 PM
How do you get listed in the "Who's blogging" section at the bottom of the home page?
ugh
 
@nealmcb I don't have edit permissions once something goes live.
 
@JeffFerland Give me a link and I'll change it
 
No - the link you want for bsides
Actually, the opening line should mention bsides, "the other" LV event now, to carry that link
 
Agreed. I noticed there wasn't an opening line already that would fit that link.
Alright, time to go get food and liquor up the Seattle group a bit.
... and see if the goons are still pissy that I mentioned cleaning up one of their own at an event Tuesday night.
 
3:35 PM
@JeffFerland OK, I just threw in the name again with a link
 
 
1 hour later…
4:47 PM
I'm off to EVT/WOTE and a UOCAVA meeting about internet voting in SF - wish the cause of security well.....
 
5:10 PM
may your voting be uncorruptable
 
 
3 hours later…
7:41 PM
Is anyone else just a little freaked out about what could happen if this...
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/92054-black-hat-hacker-details-wireless-attack-on-insulin-pumps
got put together with this...
https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218866/Researchers_show_off_homemade_spy_drone_at_Black_Hat
?
 
 
1 hour later…
9:02 PM
It's cool, don't worry about it
 
9:50 PM
@JeffFerland glad it's fun. Wish I was there - I really enjoyed BSidesSF and BSidesLondon - gutted not to get the hat trick
 
10:04 PM
Wow. Just saw this link in the DRM thread... money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/…
$3 for Windows in China? Why the hell can't we have that in the U.S.?
 
hey there
 
10:42 PM
Posted by Kyle Brandt (@kylembrandt) on August 4th, 2011

This Saturday, August 6th starting at 3pm EDT (19:00 UTC) we will be taking our sites offline for maintenance. We are aiming to keep the downtime to about thirty minutes to an hour. Should we need to extend this window I will post updates on this post.

During this window we are going to be patching our database servers. We are also migrating our servers to a new AD domain so we have everything under a consistent naming structure.

 

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