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03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 23:00

17:03
@AviD Are there such things as kosher sandwiches?
@ScottPack huh?? of course!
I eat 'em all the time!
I thought so, but wanted to check.
Just can't have cheese and meat, right?
sandwich is, typically, two slices of bread and "something" inside.
@ScottPack not at the same time, no - that is correct.
either one is fine though.
hmm, better than fine - think Imma have one soon.
So we had a food truck come to the building. This happened.
@TerryChia "initialization_vector (bytes) – Must be random bytes." <- IVs for GCM only need to be unique (per key), not random
17:06
oh daaaaamn those look gooood.
I like the name, too - very 80's-ish.
the whole motif, in fact.
@Adnan Ok, so the entire project is mostly wrappers around C libraries. We (so far) support OpenSSL and commoncrypto on OS X. It's implemented as pluggable "backends" into the various interfaces. Here is the backend code for OpenSSL. github.com/pyca/cryptography/blob/master/cryptography/hazmat/…
haha, dang, just noticed the names of the songs menu items - very droll, well done!
So the implementation isn't done by us, it's entirely up to the C library we wrap.
@AviD I had the Talk Dirty To Me. It wasn't bad. I'm told the Nothing But A Good Time was good.
I don't get the "but it can be up to 2^64 - 1 bits." part either. AFAIK the combined size of IV and block counter is always 16 bytes with AES-GCM. No diea how those huge IVs are supposed to work.
17:08
@ScottPack do you have to sing your order?
do the servers?
@CodesInChaos I don't know much about GCM mode. Is it an issue? I can fix that if it's really a problem.
@AviD No, and no.
@TerryChia Oho. Thanks for the explanation. I figured so after reaching backend.py.
hmm I'll read the spec first. Perhaps there is a mechanism to support long IVs.
@TerryChia @CodesInChaos I'm interested to see how GCM implementations derive the MAC key and the encryption key from the main fed key.
17:11
@Adnan It makes sense this way because crypto code written in python is going to be slow as hell. :P
@ScottPack I am a bit confused by the inclusion of those red items.
hmm looks like GCM actually supports long IVs
@AviD You mean why they're red or why they're included?
still works, and damn if they dont look delish, but,.... but... they dont match!
@ScottPack the second.
give me a little credit....
17:13
hmm. I just realized, not all of those songs were on the same album.
I'll take your word for it.
I've never purposefully listened to Motley Crue
For shame. Classic 80's Hair Metal. Good fun.
I know who they are.
@Adnan the input key is used directly as key for encryption (in a CTR mode) and the MAC key is derived by encrypting the all zero block.
@AviD Yeah, when i was like 12
17:15
but then other bands' names? a Bon Jovi song??
@DavidFreitag you were 12 in the 80's???
I thought you were 12 now.
@AviD Nono, that's @Simon.
@AviD Yeah, what of it?
I was less than 12 in the 80s.
I was born in '92 but i was 12 throughout the 80s as well as today.
@TerryChia isnt he younger even than @Simon...?
17:17
@AviD We talking physically or mentally?
@ScottPack well, Dr. Feelgood came out in '89 (no, I dont remember exactly, I checked).
@CodesInChaos Interesting. Thanks a lot! You might find this interesting security.stackexchange.com/questions/54101/…
Because mentally, everyone is older than @Simon.
so I wasn't much older than that...
@AviD Yeah, you're only a few years older than me.
17:18
@ScottPack no, that's not "who", that's "why".
@ScottPack what about Whitesnake? Journey? Poison?
@AviD I know that one song by Journey and that one song by Poison.
@AviD I've heard of all those bands. The only hair metal I ever got into was GnR.
@TerryChia Journey was mentioned by name, not by song....
I didn't really develop musical preferences until grunge.
Hmm. And they don't even have a sandwich.
17:21
That's probably good. Fuck GnR
Axle is suck a tool rocket.
@AviD As was Tommy Lee
@DavidFreitag I meant, band name, not person's name. for that matter, so was Nikki Sixx and CC Deville (though CC is from Poison... )
yes yes, I know my 80's hair metal.
probably last time I actually learned new music... :-(
@AviD You should probably get on that.
anyway, @ScottPack, those sandwiches look great, and I love the motif.
Next time you're in there, ask for a slice of their pie.
@AviD if you want to keep up with modern tracks but don't want your ears to bleed, or your intelligence circuits to melt, I'd recommend Scott Bradlee
17:26
Specifically, ask "can I have 'A Slice of Your Pie'."
also ask if it's "Sticky Sweet".
probably unlock some kind of secret bonus round....
@RоryMcCune well, right now, the newest track I hear most often is "The Long Song".
@AviD It's a food truck, so where ever they are.
@AviD hmm they do covers but I don't think they've done that one...
yes yes, that's right, the alien song from the Dr. Who episode "Rings of Akhaten". Two of my kids need to hear it to fall asleep. Sometimes multiple times.
17:28
not always new stuff, as @ScottPack mentioned GnR here's one of theirs
@ScottPack I'm not too keen on eating out of a truck. I think they dont really have that here, or at least I havent really seen them.
@AviD could be a lot worse, could be Bieber or Cyrus...
Well, except for ice cream and other kiosk-type foods.
@RоryMcCune a LOT worse.
@AviD They're called roach coaches for a reason ;]
@RоryMcCune that's.... that's not the same song. Even if it's the same lyrics.
17:30
@AviD The food truck notion is becoming more of a thing in the US, particularly in bigger cities. Meh, as long as everything is cooked to temperature and isn't rotting I'm pretty fine with it.
Gawd. It's another "stop it you're going to hurt someone" question: security.stackexchange.com/q/53959/2264
@AviD no it's what it would sound like if it was a New Orleans 30's song :)
Chitinous protein is the best protein.
@ScottPack ewww.
that's the idea listen to new songs without having to actually hear the originals..
17:31
dunno that '30's music counts as "new".... well at least not yet
Except to @RoryAlsop
hehe
@ScottPack lol
speaking of old...
MS-DOS 1.1 source code released
all 300KB of it..
@RоryMcCune usually, the idea is to take the same tune, and play it with a different beat / rhythm / instruments. that tune is completely unsimilar.
not that its not better, just not the same song.
I love music with a good horn section.
@RоryMcCune just in time!
17:34
@AviD yeah some of their stuff is more or less similar than the original..
@tylerl you have a pressing need for very old MS-DOS source code?
@RоryMcCune Where is it? The links on that page give me a 503..
@RоryMcCune now I can destroy the WORLD!
2
@DavidFreitag yeah I just tried following the final link, I'm guessing their server got crushed, as it's on the front page of HN
@RоryMcCune :[
@DavidFreitag if you're feeling brave someone posted a mirror to the comment thread news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7466952
17:37
@RоryMcCune Nah i mashed F5 it eventually came up.
seem like it is very much in demand.
Thweeet. Thanks for the link @RоryMcCune :]
I know how it feels.
It feels great to probe around a server and find a the file you want by luck (after about 40 attempts)
@Adnan ah, so you're pentesting now?
17:42
sounds like he's accessing files without authorisation, lucky for him he's not in France or the USA....
@AviD Naah, just tried a couple of directory names. Threw the s3 subdomain just because I saw once that slideshare served the files in a similar way a while ago
@RоryMcCune Oh I'm pretty sure they have a link to the file somewhere public on the site.
@Adnan isnt that the way most pentesters do it?
"most" being "crap"
@AviD Damn! I've always knew I had a talent with penetration
3
@Adnan Penetration testing is something different. "Excuse me, I've got to check something real quick..."
"Yep. Appears to be in working order. Thank you for you time."
@tylerl Heeeeey.. where's the 50 EUR you promised?
17:53
@CodesInChaos There is such a mechanism but it is like a custom MAC, then truncated to 12 bytes. It usually is best when the IV already has the right length.
> Dear Tyler Larson, Good news! You are entitled to a credit of $0.73 for some of your past Kindle book purchases. The credit results from legal settlements reached with publishers about the price of eBooks.
Wow. Such settlement. Very refund.
@tylerl What's that? I've been receiving such message from certain friends recently
"Such X. Very Y"
@tylerl Oh.. it's that thing @FEichinger mentions
and I just found that if you Google "Such x. Very y" you'll gave that thing as the first result.
@Adnan And it's usually in the form of "SUCH X. VERY Y."
18:01
@Adnan <insert joke about your half an inch>
@FEichinger Half an inch? Heh. You're being too generous
@Adnan That's interesting. This zip is different from the one in @RоryMcCune's link.
@DavidFreitag Not possible.
@DavidFreitag Rory's link has TWO files. One for MSDOS and one for MSWORD.
@Adnan Mmhmm...
That must be it.
@DavidFreitag I don't know exactly. But, clearly, it's from the Computer History Museum domain.
Unless I hacked their S3 and uploaded malware just to get you
18:05
@Adnan I'm not saying there's anything wrong i was just pointing it out.
That's actually quite possible
Didn't you find it strange that one of the documentation files is .RTF? :D
Or that the name of the other zip is "Word-1.1a-CHM-Distribution"?
Nah, not odd at all ;]
@ThomasPornin They seem to use 128 bits. So the space for random IVs is a bit larger (but it overlaps with the counter)
@AviD - our manager goes drinking with Nikki Sixx, Trent Reznor and Al Jourgenson. She is awesome
I loved those bands - Tesla, LA Guns, Crue, etc
18:32
Hey - this looks and sounds fun:
@RoryAlsop Yeah i heard about that a while ago. It's pretty cool
Not nearly as cool as the 10 cylinder F1 cars though :'[
Was too tired yesterday, but today I deleted my "-1: Troll" comment and replaced it with something significantly more hurtful -- a well-reasoned and factually-accurate rebuttal.
.... and the bastard deleted it.
@tylerl He probably just passed it off because the same person put up "-1 Troll" last time. Try the same message using a sock puppet
@DavidFreitag meh. he doesn't deserve my attention.
@tylerl He. Do you really believe that a blog, any blog, is a public space for fair debate ?
18:47
@tylerl But his readers might.
@tylerl Aw man! But he's Robert Mitchell
Down to its core, a blog page is a temple dedicated to the narcissism of whoever claims to be the author.
> He writes features, blogs and has more than 20 years of experience in the IT industry.
I also noticed that @LucasKauffman's comment was removed as well.
@DavidFreitag I agree w/ @ThomasPornin -- if he's going to immediately delete comments that show he's wrong, then his blog isn't the appropriate place for discussion.
@Adnan so does Steve Gibson
18:48
@tylerl Yeah me too. Blatant censorship. Woohoo!
19:01
@DavidFreitag No, editing. It's only censorship if the populous finds out.
@ScottPack Well whatever you choose to call it, it's still bullshit.
Sonufabitch. It's supposed to SNOW tomorrow. WTF.
IT'S FUCKING SNOWING RIGHT NOW
Obama is going to land in about 20 minutes and I've got a perfect view of the runway from our office
19:05
@tylerl FUUUUUUUUU
@Adnan you don't never complain about any code. I have seen the worst code around.
I have worked with code you can't even have nightmares with because you could never imagine nothing so bad.
In fact, I began a blog (I deleted it years ago just in case)
called "horrores informáticos"
I had so many of them that I could write an entry everyday
let me search for an example (I belive I have some of them in my personal e-mail)
This goes as is:
int count_loop=0;
while(!salir)
{
       ... //whatsoever
       // Robust infinite loop detection

      if(count_loop++ > 10000)
             break; // Infinite loop detected.
}
I just added the comment before the if, the comment in the break was added by the author of the code
19:24
@ScottPack Here it is too cold for snow. -23⁰C this morning.
When air is below -12°C or so, it is too dry to allow snow to happen. However we can have "ice crystal" (condensation which results in tiny ice crystals in the air), which is beautiful.
Compose+^+0 yields '⁰', while Compose+0+'^' yields '°', which is another character. How wonderful.
@ThomasPornin &deg;
though obviously not in chat
(cuz markdown fail)
@tylerl Nice, assuming I converted from °F to °C correctly, we had it like that about a week ago. It's a bit more April-ish now but still not too bad. Only the nights still go down to 5 °C so still no sleeping in the ditch :D
@ThomasPornin That's....that's terrible.
@TildalWave That would be 26C
@ScottPack You get used to it. Or you die.
@ThomasPornin Or move.
19:31
@ThomasPornin that's almost true but it can snow at even colder temps ... all you have to do is change the planet :P
@ThomasPornin I think you don't get used to it, you "go indoors"
@ScottPack indeed
and that's what we had
mostly around 23 tho, but it went as high as 27
@tylerl First one is U+2070 SUPERSCRIPT ZERO, while second one is U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN. The second is the correct one.
I google it and copy/paste.
@TildalWave Converted for your convenience:
19:33
@tylerl funny enough, google disagrees encrypted.google.com/search?q=79+fahrenheit+in+celsius
@TildalWave it's gotten hotter in the past 15 minutes.
hehe ok :)
@tylerl I still much prefer -23°C to +30°C. When it is cold I can don a bigger coat; when it is hot I cannot remove my skin.
@ThomasPornin fur
RAWR IMA BEAR
I can't imagine attempting to wax a bear.
19:35
@ThomasPornin it's usually the skin of others that makes it "too hot to bear" tho :)
@tylerl The fur I can remove; I have clippers. And it will grow back.
actually, if the polar bears are black under their fur, are black bears white?
@ThomasPornin That is what I always say in summer... It is so hot here... I prefer cold weather, you just can add another layer =)
@TildalWave "American or Asian black bear ?"
@ThomasPornin What is the average ground speed of an unladen black bear?
19:39
@ThomasPornin Coming from you, I actually believe you that it matters ... OK, American black bears. Their facial hair suggests they're white but I'm not sure.
@tylerl He. Some people know their classics.
Technically, the American black bear is faster on ground than the Asian black bear, because of its shorter claws; the Asian black bear has long claws for tree climbing.
@RoryAlsop NO.FRIKKIN.WAY.
An Asian black bear will run at about the same speed as Usain Bolt; an American black bear should reach 50 km/h or so. Polar bears have been rated at more than 60 km/h.
@kiBytes highly unlikely. I have likely seen the most code here, so statistically I've probably seen the worst.
And yeah, I have seen such bad code that you dont even realize that your bad code is simply mediocre by comparison.
19:55
@ThomasPornin Sustained or sprinting?
@TildalWave This was more a witty quote; however, it may matter because Asian black bear have a big patch of white fur on their chest, and fur colour may depend on local skin colour (it does so in cats, for instance -- that's a genetic mosaic effect).
@ScottPack Sprinting. Bears are lazy and won't run for long spontaneously.
Apparently, American black bear are somewhat beige, or tan.
@ThomasPornin So bears like to curl up in warm cozy holes for long periods of time, are grumpy in the mornings, and lazy but will run if necessary?
I wonder if I'm part bear.
@ScottPack If you wake up in the morning and notice dried mud on your feet, then there might be something worth worrying about.
@ThomasPornin like mud in your bed
Mud is hard to clean out of sheets
20:11
@tylerl - write a question on it here, of it doesn't already exist, and I'll leave him a comment linking to it :-)
@RoryAlsop about mud in your bed?
No.... The Google anti HTTPS moron
:-)
@tylerl Well, it is a good question: "I am a werewolf, do you have cleaning tricks for linen ? Something about removing blood stains would be welcome, too."
@ThomasPornin Werebear.
Haven't seen a film about that yet
But it's only a matter of time
20:18
probably a rule 34 thing.
Heh - ewww
I can see airforce one :O
@LucasKauffman is that what you call it??
@AviD no that's Godzilla
because it doesnt speak english?
spews flame?
has a slight delay in translation?
Bad euphemism.
20:29
Nope. I'm going to interject here. The official name for @LucasKauffman's penis is "Airforce One".
3
@ScottPack So that would mean that one black sperm will come out?
@ScottPack we have to make sure to contact his significant other.
which refers to the two fighter jets that always accompany Airforce one.
one on the left, one on the right.
@LucasKauffman No, it means it flies with a double.
his hands....
@AviD I like that idea.
20:33
@tylerl Sorry. Couldn't help myself.
wait I only read hands now
fuuuuu
hahaha
thought that was obvious....
@AviD I was hoping for chicks :(
@LucasKauffman Wow
@ScottPack yeah, racist much.
20:35
racist?
@AviD We should expect it from a Belgian.
damn belgians.
@ScottPack well what do you call it then? One Afro-American sperm?
0
A: Is Google overreaching by forcing me to use TLS?

tylerlIt's not just about you. By forcing users to user TLS, they're creating a more secure environment for everyone. Without TLS being strictly enforced, users are susceptible to attacks such as sslstrip. Essentially, making unencrypted connections an option leads to the possibility of forcing users ...

Thar you go. Asked and answered.
OBAMA IS LEAVING
20:37
So I look like a bit like a douche berating myself for asking a dumb question.
2
@tylerl Drat. I was going to edit that answer to just be No. with all the long drawn-out bits in an HTML comment (invisible to the casual observer), but your Markdown breaks that stuff.
see trustwave are getting sued over the target breach... chicagobusiness.com/article/20140325/BLOGS11/140329865#
@LucasKauffman why does race have anything to do with it? and THAT is why its racist.
could be an interesting time to be a PCI DSS auditor...
@LucasKauffman A sperm should be judged by the strength of it's character and not by the color of it's enzymes.
20:49
@RоryMcCune Question is, was Target actually PCI compliant?
And more interestingly, did Target misrepresent their position/assets to Trustwave during the audit, or did Trustwave miss something?
@tylerl Or the third option is that they were compliant and still popped anyway.
For my money the 3rd option is the most likely.
@ScottPack Yes, that's actually the first option.
Ah ok good.
A lot of people (Target's CEO included, according to a recent public statement) seem to associate PCI compliant with "certificated unhackable".
Oh sure, the PCI Council has done a good job of convincing people that's the truth.
20:54
@tylerl well I've seen companies who had been assessed as compliant with pretty obv. security issues.
@ScottPack Which really brings things back to whether or not the PCI council is responsible because of the lax standards that they enforce.
@ScottPack I would bet on all the above.
@AviD After making the statement I realized that they're all three likely pretty equally likely and also non-blocking.
@tylerl Let's face it. The PCI-DSS sets a minimum bar for security controls. The fact that they're a minimum baseline, and still nearly impossible to reach, demonstrates how bad off we are as a whole.
@ScottPack It is an interesting point. PCI does seem to needlessly chase minutiae while ignoring huge swaths of attack surface. I guess when you design security constraints by committee, PCI is not far off from what you get.
On the whole the DSS isn't all that bad. I do like it as a general purpose starting point.
21:03
yep there's a lot of sense in DSS but it hits things which are easy to audit not necessarily best
also has been subject to a lot of politics from security vendors I reckon
Like I said. Good generic starting point. :)
@tylerl ^ polite enough, do you think?
@RoryAlsop I think so. We'll see if it survives for more than 10 minutes.
> "... written in PHP and JavaScript". <-- nuff said.
but check this! NoSSL will run even if your website doesnt have an IP address!
I ... think they don't really understand the concept of SSL.
22:19
> Currently, there is no good protection against the Man-in-the-middle-attack in NoSSL. The problem is that JavaScript is loaded from the server itself and run in the browser. Thus, the browser cannot independently verify the identity of the server.
So... what's the point?
@tylerl yeah. on the other hand, they seem to have a portion of a clue. So there's that.
@AviD inspires all sorts of confidence
Also, why do we need all these NoX crap things recently?
no, but... but... hmm. but nothing, really.
@FEichinger Against spies, apparently.
If I want the features of X, I'll friggin use X.
22:22
yep the idea that the "complexity" of SSL should be relplaced with a javascript based sol. that doesn't even address one of the main risks just seems... odd
But SSL is so difficult!
@tylerl but of course because they're open source it would be way simpler to just audit the Javascript crypto...
all that is both true and obvious. But I think they are actually aiming for a target with a diferent risk profile: e.g. your sister's cat's blog. and the main attacker is you, her 12 year old pesky kid brother.
so NoSSL would, hypotehtically, protect against that.
Arguably.
SSL is not that complex.
@tylerl yes, this makes it completely useless.
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