The DMZ

TildalWave

23:00

11 hours ago, by Simon

Wow, the begueradj asshole had upvoted 3 of my answers?

AviD

@TildalWave ahhh

TildalWave

I was searching for buggeradj :))

Xander

Mine:

TildalWave

I only had -20, not too bad

Xander

I barely got back into positive rep for the day after that.

TildalWave

23:04

rep well spent

SEJPM

I had -3 lol

David Freitag

I gained 10 rep for the day, didn't lose any

AviD

he actually undownvoted more times than I was unupvoted.

Xander

@AviD Nice

AviD

still more reploss than repgain though

Xander

23:08

If I ever delete myself from the site, there'll be a lot of happy users. I've handed out 1,454 downvotes as of this point in time.

David Freitag

@AviD It's tough to enjoy the cynical old snarky stuffed animal yelling from the corner of the room

Xander

'Course I've also bestowed 5,453 upvotes, and those folks might not be so thrilled.

AviD

@DavidFreitag hey now, I usually do my cynical snarky animal yelling from the middle of the room.

or sometimes outside your window.

@Xander yes, but 4,326 of those were for @ThomasPornin.

CodesInChaos

@AviD Ban both for "voting irregularities".

Xander

@AviD Nonsense. You can't prove that I've voted for him more than 4,200 times, at most.

AviD

23:11

@CodesInChaos right. Upvotes for @ThomasPornin should always be a prime number.

Xander

I will admit he's been of some help to me in my quest for my Sportsmanship badge.

Mark Buffalo

@Xander cringe

Xander

@MarkBuffalo Ehh, it happens. And if it was to the fellow @TildalWave suggests, it couldn't have happened to a more suitable candidate.

Mark Buffalo

Beggarjedi's account was deleted?

AviD

I think we would all have been willing to spend some more rep to accomplish that deed.

Mark Buffalo

23:15

Speak for yourself, I lost 10 rep

That's like someone punching my mom in the teeth

AviD

trust me, it is worth even more than that.

Mark Buffalo

lmao

TildalWave

0

Q: DirectoryIndex directive not redirecting

I am fairly new to apache and was a SQL Server database admin in a former life so please forgive my ignorance. I am trying to set up an apache(HP-UX flavor) server to conform with the DOD STIGs required for this project. I have the following items configured within my httpd.conf file: LoadModule...

we just migrated that

also cross-posted ...

0

Q: DirectoryIndex not redirecting

I am fairly new to apache and was a SQL Server database admin in a former life so please forgive my ignorance. I am trying to set up an apache(HP-UX flavor) server to conform with the DOD STIGs required for this project. I have the following items configured within my httpd.conf file: LoadModule...

apache apache-httpd hp-ux

0

Q: Site not redirecting to file specified in Directory index directive in apache

I am fairly new to apache and was a SQL Server database admin in a former life so please forgive my ignorance. I am trying to set up an apache(HP-UX flavor) server to conform with the DOD STIGs required for this project. I have the following items configured within my httpd.conf file: LoadModu...

apache-2.2 hp-ux

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave it works well. Think I have t-shirts from 9 sites now :-)

AviD

@TildalWave so whjy not just close as offtopic?

Mark Buffalo

23:17

Wow.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop yeah but you're also a mod on like 20 of them :P

@AviD exactly

we shouldn't have migrated

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave lol

AviD

ah right. /cc @schroeder

@RoryAlsop hmm. Should consider that too.

@TildalWave I would appreciate a headsup.

TildalWave

I had to actually sign in to SU to leave that friggin stop crossposting comment

schroeder

@AviD WHAT?! I'm working here

AviD

23:18

heh sorry

schroeder

what's up?

AviD

@schroeder scroll up a few lines

you migrated that double-crosspost....

Rory Alsop

@AviD oh, I don't actually do that. I just already am on many sites.

Mark Buffalo

@TildalWave I had to sign in to upvote your comment :/

Rory Alsop

happy to point out ones that are close to graduating (there is a list...)

schroeder

23:19

@AviD my bad

DEATH TO ALL CROSS-POSTERS!

7

Rory Alsop

Music has just graduated, but has not yet had site design, so if you get yourself a quick 2k rep there you'll be on page 2 :-)

AviD

no biggie, I hear the SU mods love picking up all the garbage... ;-)

@RoryAlsop ah no, unlikely

I'm not quite tone deaf, but more like tone-mute?

diagprov

@AviD does everyone still send all stuff to superuser? Hahaha.

AviD

see if it was q's about existing music, I might be helpful with that, but not about music making.

Rory Alsop

@AviD ah - you want Music Fans SE then - it's a bit further away from graduating

TildalWave

23:22

@AviD triple

AviD

@TildalWave how many sites total was it posted on?

TildalWave

@AviD 3

AviD

@RoryAlsop ah see. Didnt even know there was a site...

David Freitag

@MarkBuffalo Why would you want to switch races in Eve? There is literally no difference

AviD

@TildalWave right, so thats double-crosspost.

TildalWave

23:23

@AviD no, because pyramids you donut

AviD

post==1. Crosspost==(current+1)==2.

TildalWave

yes, and 2 and 3 cross-post to 1

AviD

double-crosspost == (current + 2) == 3

Rory Alsop

@AviD my list down to about 1k is mostly interesting stuff: stackexchange.com/users/251740/rory-alsop?tab=accounts

AviD

@TildalWave wat

Rory Alsop

23:23

in my opinion :-)

TildalWave

@AviD triangles!!

AviD

@TildalWave umm

@RoryAlsop yeah but I would have very little to contribute to most of them, and not much interest in the rest.

TildalWave

it was a triple recursive cross-post, as in worth cursing over and over and over

Rory Alsop

@AviD no t-shirt for you then ;-P

David Freitag

There should be an SE leaderboard for people who mod multiple sites. I'd bet @RoryAlsop is at the top

TildalWave

23:25

and that has been done thrice

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag yeah - I am

there is one

AviD

@TildalWave ahh I see, its not additive its multiplicative

so actually its a quadruple crosspost

TildalWave

nononono

ha, funny, what's 9 of triple? isn't that nono-?

David Freitag

Greaaaaaat internet broke halfway through an ubuntu server install

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag this is the non-sorted version (and I like it because I break the formatting)

stackexchange.com/about/moderators?by=users

AviD

23:26

@RoryAlsop what is the defined difference between productivity and lifehacks?

Rory Alsop

@AviD productivity is just being less crap and procrastinate-y. Lifehacks is explicitly about non-standard ways to do standard things

@DavidFreitag they had to fix the username bit, as I use two, and I managed to get two lines, rather than the 1 :-)

AviD

huh, @AJ is a 3x mod?

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Hehe, you crazy

Rory Alsop

@AviD yup

2 of which overlap with me

which is useful as he knows way more about those two than I do

AviD

@RoryAlsop you're down to just 7?

Mark Buffalo

23:28

@DavidFreitag Gallente ships are beautiful. Don't want to train them on a non starter. Plus, my Gallente guy is almost caught up anyway.

Rory Alsop

@AviD yeah - sorry :-)

David Freitag

@MarkBuffalo You have to train them regardless of whether you're gallente or not...

AviD

Chris only has 4, but one of them is SO so that counts extra :P

Rory Alsop

@AviD he did have 5. I wouldn't swap 5 of mine for SO...

AviD

exactly

Rory Alsop

23:29

I only really have one difficult one, and one that is just frustrating...

AviD

BUT that is crazy coder cred.... probably automatic hire for any dev job.

Mark Buffalo

@DavidFreitag back when I played, you'd need a skill like... caldari battlecruisers level x

AviD

@RoryAlsop sec.se?

Mark Buffalo

Did they remove that....?

Rory Alsop

@AviD no - Sec.SE is lovely

David Freitag

23:30

@MarkBuffalo No

Rory Alsop

because moderating here is very much exception handling, compared to my difficult one

David Freitag

But you need to train it regardless of what race you start as

AviD

huh, some crazy sites on that list, didnt know they existed....

Mark Buffalo

Okay, so I have a Gallente guy already

David Freitag

The starting race is literally meaningless

AviD

23:31

Mark Buffalo

And I enjoyed playing him morr

Rory Alsop

@AviD hadn't seen that one yet either

Mark Buffalo

I realize there's little difference, but he has sentimental value

AviD

and thats besides History, mind you

Mark Buffalo

Star Wars: The Clone Wars is such a tremendous masterpiece

AviD

23:32

?? wtf

Gilles

AviD

yeah I like those!

Rory Alsop

:-)

Gilles

AviD

I could probably get decent rep on those, when they graduate...

@Gilles oh that one I wish...

Thomas Pornin

23:33

@diagprov There is no central resource for understanding hash design because we, in truth, have no idea how such things should be done. We do not even know if secure hash function can actually exist at all.

AviD

its not just beer though, right? like e.g. wine too?

Rory Alsop

wow - I am on page 2 for Beer...

graduation swag...

Gilles

Fun fact: Homebrewing has fewer questions than the total number of questions tagged [homebrew] across SE, which are mostly about the OSX package manager

AviD

@RoryAlsop is that usually top page only?

Rory Alsop

@AviD top 2 pages, usually

AviD

23:34

@Gilles lol

@RoryAlsop ooh I can do that

when grad?

Gilles

Ah, no, that's no longer true!

diagprov

@ThomasPornin I meant more as a summary text of existing understanding, rather than "read all these papers".

Rory Alsop

@AviD for both coffee and beer, probably

Gilles

Homebrewing has overtaken [homebrew]!

Thomas Pornin

@diagprov I rest my case.

AviD

23:36

@RoryAlsop yeah those both will probably have AWESOME swag.

worth spending some time there, just for that.

btw @RoryAlsop your problematic site is Parenting?

diagprov

@ThomasPornin Haha. OK, fair enough.

Rory Alsop

@AviD :-)

diagprov

@AviD Oh the irony

Thomas Pornin

What you can have is, in each paper describing a hash function proposal, some rationale about why that function is made that way, but this does not mean that any other method is bad.

AviD

@diagprov dont you know parents are the biggest babies?

Rory Alsop

23:37

it's the community - everyone has an opinion on parenting, because obviously anyone can do it

and they are all convinced their view is the only one

Thomas Pornin

@MarkBuffalo: to start with crypto, I suggest beginning with hash function, and specifically by implementing hash functions.

Rory Alsop

and anyone who disagrees must be continually abused

AviD

@RoryAlsop I would actually have a lot to answer there, and would probably enjoy some of the answers - but as you say, the community would annoy me too much

@RoryAlsop yeah this

Rory Alsop

so many bans and suspensions there

waaaaay more than here

AviD

@RoryAlsop not a lot of sane parents there?

Rory Alsop

23:38

sometimes many per day!!!

AviD

parent or arent

@RoryAlsop ouch

Gilles

@ThomasPornin interesting, why hashes over other things? And why start with implementing primitives rather than using them?

Rory Alsop

@AviD and some of the most foul insults I have ever seen

Thomas Pornin

@Gilles Hashes are simple, especially the MD5/SHA-1/SHA-2 family, which have reasonably clear and short standards.

AviD

well sure, you spend hours elbow deep in dirty diapers, you're gonna have some shit to spew.

Thomas Pornin

23:40

@Gilles Implementation gives a lot of working knowledge on both the exact conditions of usage of such functions, and performance issues.

With such knowledge you can read things about Length Extension Attack or trouble with iterated-and-concatenated hashes, and it works in your head.

I tend to have a very hands-on approach.

AviD

@ThomasPornin would you generally recommend this also for regular devs, who just want to use the crypto correctly, without knowing how to implement the algorithms?

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Yes.

AviD

my problem with that is the number of times I've seen devs get all gung ho, and decide to go implement 3DES themselves in javascript.

or MD5 in Javascript.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD This is a great way to understand why you should not implement 3DES in Javascript.

Mark Buffalo

@ThomasPornin Thank you kindly

AviD

23:43

until they know better, I want devs to treat crypto as a blackbox, just knowing enough with switches to throw at it.

@ThomasPornin hahaha true.

Thomas Pornin

The real trick is to understand that there is a huge difference between implementing a crypto algorithm to learn it, and implementing a crypto algorithm to use it.

AviD

but still, I have literally heard, when asked how to use RSA - "oh! you just take the P and Q and... "

@ThomasPornin and with high-end devs, I could have that discussion.

the typical, 80% of devs - I dont want them to know the algorithm, besides the name and parameters.

Gilles

@AviD I find that a little crypto knowledge is sometimes worse than none. “Oh, I understand RSA!” <goes on to use textbook RSA>

AviD

I've also learned this the hard way - even without getting into the cipher maths, I used to explain the cipher modes. This led to many bad ideas and poor decisions (only a few on my part).

@Gilles exactly.

Thomas Pornin

To make a metaphor, you should not make illegal the selling of knives to people who are not professional cooks, even though you know that there are some people who will use them poorly enough that they succeed at stabbing themselves, their neighbour, and all small furry animals within a 20km radius.

Gilles

23:46

Of course, lack of knowledge can be equally bad. “I need to encrypt. This one looks simplest.” <goes on to use ECB>

Thomas Pornin

@Gilles In fact, "I need to encrypt" is sufficiently bad in itself.

AviD

@Gilles which is why "how to use" is super important, "how to implement" is better off not (usually).

@ThomasPornin sure. need more details, more context, but we can work backwards from there.

Gilles

1

Q: Stopping Race Conditions by Adding Race Conditions?

I'm doing a theoretical exercise for a class. We are given this snippit of UNIX C code which is vulnerable to race conditions between the access() call and the open() call. /* vulp.c */ #include <stdio.h> #include<unistd.h> #define DELAY 10000 int main() { char * fn = "/tmp/XYZ"; char...

files permissions c

AviD

@Gilles I think the difference is that @ThomasPornin never needs to work with regular programmers. ;-)

Gilles

@ThomasPornin nccgroup.trust/us/about-us/newsroom-and-events/blog/2009/july/… — though I don't think their presentation is really accessible to their target audience

AviD

23:50

@Gilles pls, its accessible as hell, he's talking fancy coffee in a hipster shoppe

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Actually I do work with regular programmers. My learning advice, by definition, is for programmers who want to learn, i.e. not regular programmers. Regular programmers will just keep on being regular and I cannot do anything about it (that is, anything which is not violent and illegal).

AviD

hahaha

fair point

still, "wants to learn" narrows it to maybe top 40% of devs. still a lot of subpar devs in that, believe me I've trained them.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Anybody who is willing to learn is salvageable.

AviD

@ThomasPornin see, this is what I mean.

willing != able

TildalWave

@AviD maybe they have a bad teacher :P

AviD

23:54

@TildalWave hehehe but of course

Thomas Pornin

@AviD I tend to adopt the philosophical position that, for learning, "willing" IS the same thing as "able".

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin You say that but...

TildalWave

@AviD next time don't wear your sexy pants and complain some don't pay attention to what you say

2

Mark Buffalo

@ThomasPornin I am going to try it soon

Thomas Pornin

@DavidFreitag Ok ok, anybody except @Simon.

5

AviD

23:55

@TildalWave dammit, that happened again today

also I said that to somebody else. Is that wrong?

@ThomasPornin yknow, and I hope @Simon isnt listening, but @Simon is really so far ahead of so many of the devs I've met/worked with/trained/reviewed.

4

David Freitag

cc:\ @Simon

AviD

@ThomasPornin pls, not when it comes to advanced crypto.

its not even about capability - its about tendencies.

TildalWave

@AviD if that someone else was your assistant, then yes

Thomas Pornin

@AviD It is a matter of rhythm.

AviD

that is - when you explain a concept to a typical good programmer, his mind runs off and thinks about how to implement it.

very few stop to think if they SHOULD implement it.

@TildalWave client

well, she answered me something, but I wasnt really listeneing to what she said. </simon>

Transcript for