The DMZ

Simon

14:00

You're an actual protocol.

kalina

@RоryMcCune I did, in the edit notification

@CodesInChaos I removed the list

There is no list

the list is gone

M'vy

I fail to notice the "layman terms" in that answer :)

Mark Buffalo

greetings

kalina

why is it layman and not layperson

RoraΖ

@M'vy Not sure what Laynan terms are?

Mark Buffalo

14:03

@RoraΖ Of course it's tinfoil hatty... you damn spook

and that's exactly why I'm upvoting it

kalina

you just upvoted that wall of nonsense?

RoraΖ

@MarkBuffalo :facepalm:

Now I have to downvote

Mark Buffalo

"LOLZ NSA" = upvote

kalina

I think you should bounty all of your reputation to me so that I can use it properly

RoraΖ

#NSALOLZ

CodesInChaos

14:04

@kalina Because women are experts at everything, obviously.

Mark Buffalo

It isn't non-sense

kalina

@MarkBuffalo it doesn't make sense so by definition...

RoraΖ

It doesn't actually answer the question, it gives tinfoil hat examples of backdoors

Mark Buffalo

That's true

lol

@kalina I'm eating a sandwich with mayo in it... HURRRG

RoraΖ

@MarkBuffalo Now I want a sandwich with mayo in it. Wrapped in tinfoil. So I can make a hat.

M'vy

14:06

@RoraΖ corrected :)

Simon

I'm patenting mayo hats.

YOU CAN'T STOP ME

Mark Buffalo

@RoraΖ The tinfoil keeps the sandwich fresh

Matthew

Are nacho hats actual things in the US?

Mark Buffalo

Never heard of them... and then I googled it

...uh....

Matthew

Or were they just invented by the Simpsons, and then used by Despicable Me people?

Mark Buffalo

14:09

Your connection is not secure: Your mans are all being middled

M'vy

anyeay time for some music

kalina

0

A: Layman's explanation of encryption backdoors

A definition of encryption back doors for those who do not understand encryption. Remember the Battle of Helm's Deep from Lord of the Rings? The big fortress surrounded by a high wall with only one way in? The fortress, the Hornburg, is split into two stages. The Keep is an immensely high struct...

2

downvote away

I'm going to delete it in a minute, I was just having fun

M'vy

All your man are middled to us

Matthew

@kalina No, I don't remember that. I managed to blank those hours from my mind

Simon

@Matthew You're a bad person. Go watch the trilogy and memorize all of it.

Mark Buffalo

14:10

@kalina DOESN'T ANSWER OP'S QUESTION LULZ

RoraΖ

@kalina I think you should leave it.

Worst case scenario it becomes the greatest downvoted question ever.

kalina

@RoraΖ it doesn't technically answer the question

Mark Buffalo

That's actually a good analogy

Too bad it doesn't answer the question

get it? ANALOGY

Matthew

@Simon There was something about one ring for Bond and all...

Mark Buffalo

because... sigh. I've been corrupted by @Simon.

RoraΖ

14:12

@kalina But that's not a deletable offense, it's a downvotable offense.

Simon

@Matthew Leave James Bond out of this.

Lighty

@kalina upvoted, because it should be upvoted

kalina

@RoraΖ I don't like being downvoted

@Lighty aww I already deleted it

Mark Buffalo

@Matthew One for the Dark Lord on his Aston Martin DB5, In the Land of London where the shadows lie.

I actually have no motivation to post on secse anymore

=[

RoraΖ

The OP asks what they are and practical examples. Nevertheless your comment remembered me of a well known article that I will include. Thanks. — Rui F Ribeiro 54 secs ago

kalina

14:13

you say that after whoring 10k rep in like a week

RoraΖ

TIN FOIL EXAMPLES ARE NOT PRACTICAL EXAMPLES

GRRRRRRRRRR SMASH

Matthew

@MarkBuffalo My favourite bit was when Paddington turned up and told him that all the gadgets were a bit old fashioned

Mark Buffalo

@RoraΖ Sometimes they can be. Especially if you've got the phrenia something awful.

Then anything can be an example.

RoraΖ

I'm an example?

Mark Buffalo

@kalina :< :<

@RoraΖ You're an example.

kalina

14:14

Tinfoil hat examples are not practical examples... — kalina 15 secs ago

just for you

RoraΖ

My life has meaning, I can be an example.

Simon

@RoraΖ You're an example.

kalina

so you can maintain your publicly loved image

M'vy

@kalina and plausible deniability

Mark Buffalo

I VTC'd the post

belongs on crypto

RoraΖ

14:15

@kalina You are the voice of reason.

Mark Buffalo

The only crypto expert on secse is @ThomasPornin

kalina

pls you can't say things like that with a straight face

Mark Buffalo

...that I'm aware of

kalina

HEY EVERYBODY @RORAZ SAYS I AM THE VOICE OF REASON

3

Thomas Pornin

@MarkBuffalo At least @CodesInChaos and @DW are cryptography experts.

Mark Buffalo

14:17

I like how @RoraΖ is careful to say, "alleged backdoors," as if to introduce doubt to the tinfoil.

RoraΖ

You can't say things like "As the folklore goes" in an answer!

M'vy

thansk anyone for choosing which post to star

Simon

Markus only has eyes for da bear.

Mark Buffalo

@RoraΖ REVEALED YOUR EMPLOYER IS

@ThomasPornin ah, good to know

Still, I kinda think it belongs on crypto, no?

RoraΖ

@MarkBuffalo This is like posting that Unicorns and Fairy Dust is real, and that Peter Pan will come take you away where you'll be a child forever.

Matthew

14:19

blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/17/…

kalina

@RoraΖ *are

Mark Buffalo

@RoraΖ You mean that isn't true????????????

kalina

@RoraΖ and... they are real?!

fairy dust at least is a real thing

RoraΖ

@kalina And the voice of reason vote is retracted...

Mark Buffalo

@Matthew I'm conflicted. On one hand, weakened standards are the debil. On the other hand, those terrorist fuckjobs need to be brought down.

kalina

14:20

@RoraΖ :D

fairy dust is real

I have a bag of it somewhere

maybe I mean angel dust

Matthew

@MarkBuffalo I fail to see how weakening legal encryption standards helps with the second part. I suppose you can arrest anyone using proper encryption on the basis that they have something to hide, but it seems a bit thoughtcrime

Mark Buffalo

Like I said, I am conflicted

kalina

thoughtcrime should be punished

Mark Buffalo

Weakened standards, imho, are a national security risk

M'vy

@Matthew having something to is not necessary arrest-worthy

Mark Buffalo

14:22

This is how you get the painfully-easy OPM/FBI/DHS breaches

Rоry McCune

theverge.com/2016/2/2/10893664/… <-- These guys either have a reeeeaaallly incredible product or are the greatest scam artists the world has seen...

Matthew

@M'vy I know that. You know that. Do the law enforcement people know that?

M'vy

And I am not sure that weakend standards are globally good for the security

Mark Buffalo

@RоryMcCune Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. I want to believe

Rоry McCune

I'll bet the investors who just pumped $793 mill into a company with no released product want to too :)

Matthew

14:24

@M'vy I'm sure they aren't

M'vy

Pretty sure people who wants to keep things hidden for real will get the mean to protect their data while the common folk could not. Therefore, the asymmetry makes things worst.

Mark Buffalo

@M'vy Of course they aren't. I'm just saying I wish there was a better way to capture the bad guys.

Of course, hacking them is easy... but in these cases, you can only respond after the fact

After they've done their damage.

@M'vy Agreed.

M'vy

Btw. I'd be curious to know the percentage of cases where having access to encrypted material resulted in arrest of terrorist

Simon

You're a percentage of cases where having access to encrypted material resulted in arrest of terrorist.

M'vy

@Simon you're overdoing it sometimes

Mark Buffalo

14:27

@M'vy I'm sure that's classified... but I'll say this: it doesn't look good from the outside.

They aren't stopping anything or anyone

Simon

@M'vy You should appreciate the fact that I haven't even copy pasted your post.

M'vy

@MarkBuffalo ahah. Wonder who has something to hide now :)

CodesInChaos

@MarkBuffalo An introductory question like that would be fine on either security.se or crypto.se.

Mark Buffalo

@CodesInChaos Good to know. I felt it would get a better percentage of expert responses by going to crypto, though.

CodesInChaos

I'd expect answers on crypto to be narrower and more technical.

Simon

14:29

You're narrower and more technical.

Matthew

I suspect the actual solution is to look at economic balancing, to reduce the feeling of being dictated to by rich white guys, improve relationships between religions, races, countries and distinct groups, and to minimise tensions in hotspots. Or find some more planets to live on.

Journeyman Geek

@M'vy Sometimes?

Mark Buffalo

Okay, that isn't funny... it seemed funny for 0.00001 seocnds.

M'vy

@JourneymanGeek :D

Journeyman Geek

@MarkBuffalo a dead society is a polite society.

I mean, have you seen someone from harappa pick your pocket?

Thomas Pornin

14:32

@CodesInChaos The OP explicitly prefers the answers to be low on technicalities.

Mark Buffalo

apple.com/customer-letter

Thomas Pornin

I posted a sec.SE-level answer.

kalina

Well that's what I get for pre-ordering DLCs

I believe my opinion on Fallout 4 is about to go from "yeah it's a good game you should play for sure" to "oh gosh they definitely screwed us all with that one"

M'vy

@ThomasPornin hmmm, there's levels of bear-answers then :)

Rory Alsop

@MarkBuffalo if you look at the post-mortems for the major terrorist attacks in recent years, encryption was not used by terrorists

Matthew

14:38

@RoryAlsop Don't they tend to just meet up and have a chat in private somewhere?

Rory Alsop

@Matthew or use disposable mobile phones

M'vy

> There is only one thing that spy agencies fear more than not being able to spy: it is the idea that other competing spy agencies may also spy.

^ah ah

Mark Buffalo

@RoryAlsop Agreed. It's used in the San Bernardino case, though

Matthew

@MarkBuffalo Is it though? What if the guy just has tons of child porn on his phone? No terror related stuff at all?

Mark Buffalo

@Matthew It's actually somewhat easy to hack a phone

Rory Alsop

14:41

@MarkBuffalo no evidence of that at all

Mark Buffalo

@RoryAlsop iPhone case. The phone is encrypted. FBI can't unlock it

I'm not against encryption, though.

Rory Alsop

@MarkBuffalo yup. I'm very much against backdoors to encryption. It would hurt the innocent far more than the guilty

Matthew

I mean, obviously, that is also a crime. Is that sufficient to force Apple to decrypt? What about suspecting that someone is going to do a Snowden and reveal secrets of the NSA?

Rоry McCune

@Matthew yep it's a massive slippery slope argument. Once Apple do it once, they will be put under pressure by every police and spy agency in every country they operate in

Simon

I hope they're not gonna do it.

kalina

14:43

I hope they do it

I hope Microsoft do as well

Mark Buffalo

@RoryAlsop This. It's already hurt the innocent. Technological backdoors have already hurt many innocents.

Rоry McCune

@kalina because you like watching the world burn?

kalina

I want there to be carnage, people rioting in the streets, throwing bricks at windows, setting fire to politicians, etc

Rоry McCune

@kalina that's what I guessed your reasoning would be

Simon

Yes, people will riot in the streets because of encryption.

Did you ever see nurdz riot?

M'vy

14:44

More likely they are going to do it while claiming otherwise

Simon

It ends up in them spamming in Twitch chat.

Matthew

@kalina And you objected to me being willing to watch skiddies playing Minecraft as root...

Simon

That's one hell of a riot.

Rоry McCune

@Simon only when the ethics of gaming journalism was involved

kalina

@RоryMcCune heh, wrong

only when women said the ethics of gaming journalism was wrong

nobody would have cared if men had complained about something

Rоry McCune

14:45

@kalina it was a joke! That's the line From gamersgaters

kalina

NO

I WILL NOT ACCEPT A JOKE

YOU DARE JOKE ABOUT FEMINISM

Simon

Shut up fake feminist.

kalina

I've just about had enough of your abuse

Rоry McCune

@kalina actually I was joking about male gamers, not feminism :)

Simon

"abuse"

kalina

14:46

@Simon yes, abuse

Rоry McCune

@kalina ohh good point I forgot to put in a trigger warning

Mark Buffalo

@RоryMcCune I agree. Imho, weakened standards are actually the largest national security threat our country is facing today. For example, the OPM, FBI, DHS, and other alphabet agency hacks we haven't been told about... these hacks are most likely a result of weakening standards. Karma seems to be a thing.

kalina

@Simon and yes, I view it all as abuse

Simon

Good for you.

kalina

not for you though

Mark Buffalo

14:48

Weakened standards bite everyone in the ass, including the those who created them. Once your security through obscurity is gone... either someone leaks it, or someone finds a way around it, you're screwed along with everyone else.

2

Simon

What's the point of security if someone has a master key to bypass all of it?

Rory Alsop

@kalina - while your post was more about an accidental backdoor, I think it is perfectly valid. You don't fancy undeleting do you?

Mark Buffalo

@Simon Exactly

kalina

@RoryAlsop if you want to undelete it you can, so I can complain when I get downvoted and use the fact you undeleted it as leverage to make you disassociate it

Rory Alsop

@Simon because once a good guy has the key (for various values of good) the bad guys can too

@kalina lol - erm...okay

Matthew

14:49

@kalina Undelete and donate to community?

Simon

@RoryAlsop And often the good guys turn out to be the bad ones.

kalina

@Simon tell me about it, look at you for example

Mark Buffalo

@kalina You'll get an upvote from me. I subscribe to the mentality of, "the answer may not be what you want it to be, and you might be looking at something incorrectly." And your post was perfectly valid.

kalina

@Matthew everything you post on SE is a donation to the community

Rory Alsop

@kalina so far you have 100% more upvotes than downvotes...

M'vy

14:50

Good and evil is a matter of perspectives

kalina

@RoryAlsop blame lighty for not understanding "upvote correct answers"

Rory Alsop

@kalina Ipffft

Matthew

@kalina Well, yes. But if you assign to the diamond commmunity, you don't get the downvotes!

Mark Buffalo

If you always answer a question directly, people don't learn much... sometimes you need to veer off-topic a little bit

Sometimes, direct answering is not the answer... or maybe I am retarded. Yes, I am retarded. but I might be right, too.

Matthew

@MarkBuffalo Ever played that game where you answer the previous question?

Mark Buffalo

14:53

Noop

M'vy

@Matthew I think it would be a good idea

Rory Alsop

@M'vy yes I have

kalina

there's something wrong about me musing about lord of the rings being as highly voted as @ThomasPornin's correct answer

Rory Alsop

@kalina layman's terms

many folks will be baffled by Thomas' answer

Oh - I am so happy about ibuprofen and red bull. It is getting me through today

Thomas Pornin

@kalina There is a picture. Pictures attract upvotes.

Simon

14:56

Especially pictures of a gate. People love gates.

kalina

@ThomasPornin but there are no freehand circles

M'vy

@kalina just means you won't max out the votes

kalina

oh well there's no point if you're not going to rep cap

M'vy

@kalina you can rep cap and not max out the votes

Matthew

I just had a brilliant idea. Little door stickers to put on the back of iPhones. I think the FBI would love them!

M'vy

14:58

I regarding the votes as absolute and not on any timeline

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