The DMZ

Iszi

22:00

Unless you're presenting to muckety-mucks who need stuff broken down into Kindergartener terms, I find charts tend to cost more time than they're worth.

Hell, even when you're presenting they still do. Not like the folks are actually going to read them. But they like to see pretty pictures.

David Freitag

That's interesting, too bad I can't seem to care.

Iszi

Wow. XBL has been down for awhile. Wonder if MS forgot to pay a bill or something? It is first day of the fiscal year for many.

Heh. I like how WinBeta starts their article about it:

> If you’re currently giving your Internet Service Provider an earful because you can’t access Xbox Live, perhaps calm down, apologize to the person on the other end of the phone and hang up.

@RoryAlsop You don't do console gaming, do you?

Rory Alsop

Yeah - ps3 and ps4

And megadrive and n64

And dreamcast

And occasionally wii

Iszi

@RoryAlsop Ah, hehe. Haven't been on my PS3 in forever. I'll get PS4 at some point.

Rory Alsop

Still use my ps3 for quite a few games that I don't want to have to buy again

Iszi

22:07

Between the two big guys, I prefer the PlayStation experience. But all my RL friends are on Xbox. So that's how I ended up getting a One first.

Celeritas

Hi. Small question

Iszi

One of these days I'll get back to my PC gaming roots. Just don't have much room - physically or in the budget - for it.

@Celeritas Wow. That is small. Can't even see it.

2

;-)

Celeritas

I've red what a nonce is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_nonce, but what's the difference between the word nonce and "random number"

Rory Alsop

@Iszi twss...

Iszi

@Celeritas Stop reading after the first sentence and you'll see it.

kalina

22:10

help

Rory Alsop

@Iszi I would persuade them to move to ps. Just don't like Xbox games

kalina

there is a new person in here

Rory Alsop

Where

(Peers)

kalina

points @Celeritas

Rory Alsop

He's not that new

kalina

22:11

I've never seen him

Iszi

@RoryAlsop There's not really that many exclusives that would drive my choice towards either platform.

kalina

@RoryAlsop PC master race

Celeritas

so the real difference is it can only be used once/

Rory Alsop

Well yes. But if you were to have a console...

kalina

@RoryAlsop still a PC

Iszi

22:12

@Celeritas A nonce should be random, but doesn't have to be.

Just like a salt.

kalina

why willingly buy a limited PC when you could just buy a PC

Rory Alsop

Admittedly consoles have never given me this much grief

I don't buy consoles

All have been free

Iszi

@kalina Because you can still play new releases 10 years later without having to buy new hardware.

Rory Alsop

Either gifts or prizes

kalina

@Iszi pls PCs don't move that fast anymore

Iszi

22:13

@kalina Wow. Someone broke the news to Moore yet?

Rory Alsop

Lol

Okay. That one took two reboots

kalina

yeah because games are well known to be optimized for loads of cores

Rory Alsop

In the middle there was just darkness

kalina

and thus since we've gained basically 1ghz of single core speed in the last decade

Iszi

@kalina Let's see you try to play Destiny on a 10-year-old PC, eh?

Wait, WTF? I thought they put that out on PC?

kalina

22:18

sure, let it get released first

Iszi

@kalina Ok, let's say Elite: Dangerous then.

kalina

also, that particular argument is like "let's see you play gta5 on a ps2"

Elite Dangerous minimum requirements:

Processor: Four Core (4x2 GHz stated as a fair minimum)
RAM: 2 GB or more.
Graphic card: AMD Radeon 4870 / Nvidia GTX 260 (DirectX 10)

The only thing on that list that wasn't available 10 years ago was the graphics card

Iszi

@kalina Still, point proven.

David Freitag

Holy freaking crap, they are finally correct

kalina

@Iszi hardly, your comparison is still like "play gta5 on a ps2"

There is no counter to the PC that can't be applied to console other than the quantity of fucking about required to troubleshoot any problems rather than the console equivalent of "cry for a bit and then buy another"

Iszi

22:21

@kalina Actually, GTA5 would be a better comparison.

kalina

@Iszi sure, I bet you could play the console "limited" version on a old pc

but no, you wouldn't play the "optimized for real hardware" version

Iszi

@kalina I've played the Xbox 360 version. Didn't feel limited in any way.

kalina

then you've clearly been brainwashed, you should feel limited the moment you pick up the controller

David Freitag

@Iszi PC Master race.

Iszi

@kalina I prefer keyboard and mouse to a controller in most cases, yes. But it's a lot more cost-effective to drop $500 on a console one time and not have to worry about a hardware upgrade for several years, than to put in the amount of money it would cost to buy a PC with the same longevity.

kalina

22:24

@Iszi if you look at it purely from the point of view of initial outlay then sure, console will win

add a steam library of 100 games to that at console $70 a time

Iszi

@kalina Cost over time, too.

kalina

and then talk

especially when they'll cost you $25 on steam

Iszi

@kalina Seriously, brand new release at $25?

Arperum

And if you wait for sales, half of the time things cost even less.

@Iszi Depends on the game.

kalina

pls, as if you buy brand new, that was an average price based on getting 5 brand new games per year and the rest on sale

Rory Alsop

22:26

But free consoles change the balance a bit :-)

kalina

even second hand console games cost more than most PC games

Rory Alsop

Plus, driving games on a console can be fun

kalina

not in any way you can't achieve on PC

Rory Alsop

Nah - most I've spent on a console game is way less than PC games

Iszi

@kalina Past few games I've gotten on the console have been within a month or two of release.

David Freitag

22:27

I can't believe we are having this conversation

Rory Alsop

I do usually buy games a year or more after they come out

David Freitag

PC > Console.

It's a known fact.

kalina

@DavidFreitag don't be so obvious about it, this would make many console tards EXPLODE with froth and "BUT WE GET EXCLUSIVES AND HAVE MORE GAMES*"

Iszi

@DavidFreitag Take money out of the equation and I wholly agree.

kalina

* both of these things are false

@Iszi even with money in the equation

David Freitag

22:28

@Iszi Please, you can get any PC came for free so money isn't in the equation

kalina

and that's not before considering that you need a TV for consoles

David Freitag

@kalina Not true even remotely.

Iszi

@kalina Well, there are console exclusives. And some of them are pretty decent. That can't be denied. But without cost being a factor, that wouldn't be enough to push me to consoles.

David Freitag

A monitor with an HDMI input works just as well

kalina

@DavidFreitag well if you start adding the cost of monitors into the thing then you need to take that off the equivalent pc price, removing even more price difference

Iszi

22:29

@kalina Aside from @DavidFreitag's very valid point, the TV issue is moot - you've already got one anyway.

kalina

@Iszi I don't own a TV

@Iszi I already invalidated his "very valid point"

@Iszi more exclusives on PC

David Freitag

@kalina You either have a TV or a monitor or both.

Iszi

The monitor isn't even the most expensive part of the PC - unless you're buying a TV-sized monitor.

kalina

@Iszi no but it's just another thing

Iszi

@DavidFreitag These days, there's almost no distinction. Except that TVs tend to be in larger sizes and have built-in tuners that hardly anybody uses.

David Freitag

22:31

@Iszi Two words for you: Pixel density.

Rory Alsop

And have annoying functions

Why do manufacturers insist on pushing smart tvs

kalina

because they're trying to stay relevant

Rory Alsop

I want a dumb TV. If I want to add smart I'll do that outside the tv

David Freitag

Anyway, I'm going to go bang my head into a wall for the next few hours, ta ta

kalina

@DavidFreitag I thought you didn't play console games?

:p~

Rory Alsop

22:32

That's what I'm doing

Iszi

@kalina Last gaming rig I built, the monitor probably wasn't more than 10% of the overall cost.

kalina

@Iszi I think you're missing the point

David Freitag

@kalina I play Halo and Dersterner, that's about it

Iszi

Granted, that was well before @Simon was born.

TildalWave

@Celeritas your tax id can be considered a nonce, who actually pays taxes can be considered random ;)

kalina

22:33

internet is being so slow when I have so many gigabytes to download

Rory Alsop

I think the monitors are a significant fraction of this gaming rig, @Iszi

Like 1/3

kalina

@RoryAlsop don't contradict him, he wants to be correct so badly

Rory Alsop

Still only one monitor

kalina

also I have 1.7TB of SSDs in this machine now

Rory Alsop

Still both keyboard and mouse being recognised as keyboard devices

@kalina nice!

Iszi

22:34

@RoryAlsop Haha. So, what's your WPM on that mouse?

kalina

I should have decided what I'm installing where before getting this far in

but c'est la vie

Rory Alsop

Yeah... Is it just that windows 10 is incompatible with everything

kalina

@RoryAlsop I didn't have that experience

I blame the weird hardware @DavidFreitag chose for you

basically, it's all @DavidFreitag's fault

and he should be ashamed for the amount of pain and suffering he has inflicted on you

Iszi

@kalina Damn. And you're complaining of the costs of monitors?

TildalWave

@kalina was all of that in French, including but?

kalina

22:36

@TildalWave -.-

@Iszi I haven't complained once during this entire conversation

Iszi

@TildalWave Yes. Her but is French like @ThomasPornin's.

TildalWave

it would kinda say purpose is life

Iszi

@kalina Fair point. And new record, I think.

kalina

@Iszi that's not what I meant :(

Iszi

@kalina It's all good. We still love you. And I gotta jet. See y'all later.

kalina

22:38

no you don't

and FINE

leave me here alone

Iszi

@kalina I do. Got two gals waiting on me and a 1 hour drive to get to them. And you're not alone. You've got @RoryAlsop and @TildalWave here.

Rory Alsop

I'm going to step away from the machine for the night as well. This is too damn annoying, and too slow. Next driver download is expected to take another hour

Beer and bed I think

Iszi

Ok, so @TildalWave.

kalina

@Iszi great, you're leaving me for other women

Rory Alsop

Blimming Microsoft

kalina

22:39

<- abandoned

Iszi

@kalina Yeah, the ones legally referred to as "my wife and child".

Rory Alsop

@kalina I'm leaving you for one other woman. Sorry about that :-)

kalina

sigh

Iszi

Damnit @TildalWave, get back in here and keep @kalina company. We don't need her getting bored and burning The DMZ down while we're gone.

kalina

I hope you feel guilty, knowing that you chose for things to be this way

Simon

22:42

ok

TildalWave

I'm watching Progress docking, there were some nice images of it from HDEV cam

Iszi

@kalina Here. Something for you to set fire to other than chat.

0

Q: Is rolling your own network protocol insecure?

By now, everyone on here should know that rolling your own crypto is bad. But what's about rolling your own (encryption supporting) network protocol? I'm working on an open-source project (by now it's an idea to be honest) where I need to exchange a lot of binary data between clients, but trans...

kalina

@Iszi eugh, I don't care about stuff like that

Simon

@Iszi Sigh...

Iszi

@kalina @kalina Sorry, I was actually referring to @Simon. The question is for any Sec.SE folks that wanna hammer it.

Simon

22:45

Are we having an edit ping fight because that's totally what I'm doing.

kalina

I just seem to be getting pinged lots for no reason

Iszi

@Simon Nah. The SEI folks (or SOI, I guess) really should do something about that.

Simon

Agreed.

Iszi

@kalina Stupid chat pings you any time a message with a mention of you gets edited. As if it was a whole new message.

There's a certain amount of sense to it, but only so much.

Anyway, I'm out.

Simon

uout

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