The DMZ

kalina

14:00

You'll spend a year fucking about before you actually start knowing enough that the software isn't the limitation

Simon

What is? Lack of music theory?

kalina

Normally the quality of your ideas or motivation or labels

You'd be surprised how many famous artists just push buttons until it sounds how they want

Simon

Well, if you do it as a side project and don't expect to make a living out of it, labels aren't a problem.

Motivation, sure but if it's something that you don't feel obligated to do and simply enjoy, that's not an issue.

Quality of ideas, that sure can be a huge problem.

kalina

Work on being able to turn the ideas in your head into sounds you can play and share

Then work from there

Your software or hardware or combination of the two are your first learning curve

Simon

@kalina That's exactly what I'd LOVE to be able to do.

Ya I'll just stick with the same DAW until I can do that.

I think it's amazing when you can hear a sound and know how to reproduce it

kalina

14:05

Fl studio is really easy to learn

Simon

"It's a sawtooth wave, it needs this much of attack..."

@kalina I hate the UI so much.

Even though I don't know much about it yet, Logic seems to be pretty straight forward.

kalina

@Simon eh, "need"?

what a strange concept

Simon

Well, it "needs" it to be able to reproduce the sound.

lulz

kalina

PISS OFF I DON'T NEED TO START EVERY SENTENCE WITH A CAPITAL LETTER

Rory Alsop

@kalina what are you on about?

their the worts

Simon

14:14

Whoa there, don't #yolo too much.

Every time I boot up this Ubuntu 14.04 VM, it seems that something broke.

Right now, it's the font, which is probably about 8 px.

Terry Chia

@Simon Fonts are the first thing I fix on any Linux install.

Lucas Kauffman

@Simon matches the size of your penis now?

Simon

@LucasKauffman Lolno, way too big to be my D.

@TerryChia And how do you do that?

Terry Chia

@Simon infinality.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77

I'm not sure if that's required for Ubuntu though, I have not used that in ages.

Fedora has real shitty font rendering by default.

Simon

Interesting.

Thomas Pornin

14:28

Font rendering involves the human user, so what is "best" depends on the human user.

Personally, I tend to install my own bitmap font for text terminals.

kalina

@Simon this is my experience with Ubuntu in general

which is why I laugh so much at linux advocates

Simon

@kalina Never had any issue with 12.04.

kalina

I've had plenty of issues with 12.04

say how about this one

samba shits itself whenever I stream a movie from the linux pc to a windows pc or android tablet

but if I copy the movie it transfers at full speed with no problems

samba shits itself so frequently that if I leave this ubuntu machine on for 48 hours it hangs

linux, the superior operating system

cough.

Simon

Mine is fine on my media server at home.

kalina

google chrome on linux is slower than internet explorer on windows

can't even compare chrome on linux to chrome on windows

unity reduces my reasonably specced machine to the sorts of speeds you'd expect running a modern OS on a 486

Terry Chia

14:33

@kalina Unity != Linux.

kalina

at no point have I indicated otherwise?

Thomas Pornin

@kalina You actually did, when you berated "linux, the superior operating system" instead of "unity, the superior operating system". But that's a technicality.

kalina

@ThomasPornin unity is not an operating system

I thought a bear of your intellect wouldn't make that mistake

OBVIOUSLY I AM MISTAKEN

Thomas Pornin

Anyway, Linux is, from my point of view, in the "works well for me" category, so if it does not work well for you, then that falls in the "too bad for you" category.

kalina

@ThomasPornin it's not bad for me at all, I use the far superior Windows family of operating systems

5

Simon

14:35

Where's the #yolo category?

kalina

@Simon over there ---->

Linux is so shit it makes Vista look like the pinnacle of operating systems

Simon

She didn't type that. Nononono, that's not possible.

kalina

14:53

DMZ conversation: MURDERED.

Simon

rip

@kalina Wanna see what a distorted kick @ 128 BPM can do? No? Ok.

kalina

@Simon no, not hot on the idea, at all

kalina

15:17

Rоry McCune

bored again?

kalina

no

I just thought that image was hilarious

Simon

Who kicked my nob?!?

kalina

I have nearly finished all 220 pages of thecodinglove.com

AviD

bloody hell. I come to the office this morning (okay afternoon) to find my computer is dead. just dead.

as if there is simply no power.

no power. no power at all.

but it DOES have power!

kalina

15:22

@AviD is so bad at information security that even his PC commits suicide on him

Xander

@AviD Soo.,...You need a new power supply then?

AviD

short of stripping it down to parts and testing each piece individually (which I REALLY dont have time for) I am at a loss as to what to do.

@Xander I dont think so, and I find it doubtful.

its a relatively new PSU, and a good one at that.

Xander

@AviD That's no fun at all.

AviD

no signs of damage, not even a burnt smell.

so yeah, it is possible. I would need to open it all up and take it out to check.

Aint nobody got time for dat!

Terry Chia

@AviD It doesn't even get to the POST stage?

AviD

15:28

@TerryChia no reaction to the power button at all.

no fan, no lights, no fancy spinny thingies.

Terry Chia

@AviD Sounds like a dead PSU to me imo.

AviD

I had to check it was still plugged in. It is. And I tried other sockets, too.

@TerryChia it does sound that way.

I just find it odd.

Terry Chia

If it's any of the other components it will at least try the POST sequence.

AviD

great. Spending all day sunday running around fixing my hardware.

@TerryChia actually it could be external.

thought it was the wall socket, or something like that.

hmm maybe the power cord.

ok ok, damn.

Terry Chia

@AviD That's even less likely I think?

AviD

15:30

I have to take out the PSU, try to check if its burnt, then replace it. urggh.

@TerryChia and I bet the PSU's warranty is only 1 year. its been about 15 months since I got it.

Terry Chia

@AviD What model? The decent brands have pretty long warranties.

AviD

do they? I should check.

Simon

@AviD You can try the paper clip trick to see if it's working or not.

AviD

unless my memory is failing me, its a Corsair, one of the modular 80+ Golds.

Terry Chia

@AviD I think Corsair has something like 5 years.

AviD

15:32

woot, so at least it wont cost me too much to replace.

Terry Chia

@AviD Won't the downtime kill your productivity though?

AviD

well, except I will probably need to pay for shipping. and a couple weeks of downtime...

@TerryChia heh, yeah exactly.

kalina

yay downtime!

AviD

and then I will have to spend time brining my backups up to speed.

I knew weekly backups are not enough, it should have been daily backups.

or more.

Terry Chia

@AviD Was your PC on at the time?

AviD

15:34

@TerryChia I assume so.

Terry Chia

@AviD :( If you are lucky there won't be any corruption.

AviD

@TerryChia not TOO worried about that.

almost everything is in VHDs, so that has some corruption protection built in.

Terry Chia

Looks like my Seasonic PSU has 5 years warranty. Corsair should have something similar.

AviD

yay, thanks for letting me know. I will know to check.

TildalWave

@FEichinger hehe yeah good point

AviD

15:38

AHA!!!

it is NOT the PSU.

I plugged my phone in to the USB, and its charging.

so what the hell???

Terry Chia

@AviD O_O

That's even weirder.

Simon

Try to boot it without the RAM.

AviD

@TerryChia I KNOOOW

Simon

THEN DO IT

AviD

oookay, I see I will have to spend some time investigating. but that at least rules out power issues.

its like if the wire from the on button wasnt connected to anything.

but then what would make it shut off....

nealmcb

15:40

@TildalWave Howdy! Yeah - ISEE-3 has been such an inspiration!

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Can be the motherboard, the CPU, the RAM...

AviD

OMG GUISE I THINK ITS A VIRUS

Simon

LULZ

AviD

@ThomasPornin not the cpu or ram, it still would have reacted somehow - lights, fans, etc.

maybe the motherboard.... oh crap, thats worse than the PSU.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Not necessarily. I have seen such cases.

Simon

15:41

@AviD Well duh, no idea why you were happy that it wasn't the PSU, that'd be the least annoying part to replace imo.

nealmcb

@RoryAlsop Dare I ask how you scots plan to vote?

Thomas Pornin

You will save a lot of time if you just extract the disks, plug them in another machine, and declare the old hardware to be salvaged at a later time (maybe by somebody else).

AviD

@ThomasPornin I dont HAVE another machine, especially not one of comparable specs.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Last time I got that, I weighed the value of my time against the cost of a new machine (including the 20 minutes time to get to the nearest computer shop and back). I found that buying a new machine right away was still cheaper.

AviD

yes, but what about the downtime until the new machine arrives,

also, I built the machine myself, so I would have to factor that time back in again anyway.

Simon

15:45

@ThomasPornin This makes me wonder how much you get paid.

@AviD Oh, that's why it broke.

AviD

@Simon hella more'n you, I'm sure

Thomas Pornin

@nealmcb According to recent polls, that's 41% for the union, 32% for independence. So it says there: ibtimes.co.uk/…

Simon

@AviD YOU DON'T SAY

Thomas Pornin

I suppose that @Rory himself would vote for the union (based on his previous comments on the subject).

FEichinger

sigh

Exam written ... Other exam failed. God dammit

AviD

15:46

@Rory doesn't vote. He dictates.

FEichinger

@Thomas The Scots know they'd be even worse off without the union. And that they currently already have enough sovereignty.

Rоry McCune

@AviD two words... BAD BIOS!

AviD

hmmph.

Rоry McCune

srsly is the Dragos Ruiu APT stuff

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Hahaha!

What became of that?

Rоry McCune

15:54

@FEichinger yeah and we really love our Human rights avoiding, spying on citizens, london focused tory overlords

@TerryChia dunno I had a look a couple of months back and couldn't see much new stuff

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Yeah, didn't see anything really interesting about it recently.

Maybe @AviD should start reverse engineering his firmware.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia and see if his PC is now emiting any odd radio signals

AviD

@TerryChia meh, I did that at Intel for a while. Was fun, but not my preferred cup of tea.

well, mostly because I prefer coffee.

or beer.

Thomas Pornin

@FEichinger But you have to admit that independence would allow for pissing the English off.

Terry Chia

@AviD Whisky surely?

AviD

15:57

not in the morning!

Rоry McCune

►

FEichinger

@unpingableRory Oh come on, with an intelligent parliament, you could strongarm London into a lot of things. Not our fault you don't use the powers you have :P

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger unless of course... we'd just said no in a referendum and the ruling party had 0 MPs in scotland already so had nothing to lose

Poll tax ring a bell?

and of course it looks increasingly like the tories, when they get in next year, will try and take the UK out of the EU

how's that going to work for UK citizens working in Europe....

AviD

right, I'm off for the weekend, have a great one you guys!

@RоryMcCune I'm leaving you in charge. Don't let @Simon eat all the sugar.

Again.

Rоry McCune

@AviD <waves> have a nice PC fixing wknd :)

Simon

16:02

OM NOM NOM

Rоry McCune

@Simon D'oh!

Terry Chia

@AviD Better yet, poison the sugar and let @Simon have it.

Simon

@TerryChia You're as mean as @kalina, you two should be together.

FEichinger

@unpingableRory Nah the real question there is whether or not they use the EEA to maintain that.

Simon

Sorry @FEichinger

FEichinger

16:05

Free trade and travel, that is.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger possibly... they're really interested in changing it so they can get out of all the workplace/human rights regulations that aren't good for their business buddies...

whether the rest of Europe plays ball is another matter

Rory Alsop

@nealmcb - I think our current situation re government etc is terrible, but that independence would be worse. And would bankrupt us.

TildalWave

@nealmcb At a risk of sounding a bit spammy, you do know we have Space Exploration on Stack, right? I was hoping we get more ICE/ISEE-3 related questions because I'm glued to Reboot updates since they announced the project. They start another session at Arecibo in 5 minutes, they're trying to activate thrusters. Yesterday's session was a bit bumpy, they got some thrust but no cigar yet.

FEichinger

Being in the EEA but not the EU would allow them to skip EU regulations as they please. Which, to be fair, might be enough to salvage the British economy, rather than succumbing to the EU mess.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger you don't think it would end in a USA style race to the bottom, with employers offering ever worse pay and conditions?

@RoryAlsop unfortunately the two likely scenarios I see are either Scotland independent and part of EU, or UK unified and not part of EU... neither ideal in my mind.

FEichinger

16:13

@unpingableRory Germany manages to do that very same race to the bottom with the EU.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger I had not heard that, from what I'd heard things like holidays/minimum wage were good in germany (relatively speaking)

but then not an area I've looked at much

Xander

@RоryMcCune That's well and good, but the choice of pants and jacket by the fellow on the left leads to my questioning their decision making capabilities in general. If they can't pick appropriate clothes, how are we to feel reassured that they're capable of picking an appropriate time to enjoy an adult beverage?

FEichinger

Minimum wage has taken twenty years to get signed into law. And there are still tons of exceptions.

Rоry McCune

@Xander hey that was the 70's man

FEichinger

Heck, until April even I got paid less than minimum wage. As a friggin employee of the state.

Rоry McCune

16:15

@FEichinger really that's not good. what are the holiday days like...

@FEichinger in the UK it's "Zero hours contracts" which whilst ok for some roles are really taking advantage of lower paid people in others

the employee has no guaranteed hours but is prevented from looking for other work and must be available for work

FEichinger

Holiday days are well-regulated and enforced quite strongly. But that doesn't stop people from being forced to work on them anyway - even if it's just "in preparation for".

I'm not saying Germany doesn't have its good parts, work-related. But the EU isn't a savior in this at all.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger how about workers councils? I remember when my missus worked for a company that had offices in Germany, they were always v.hot on employee rights 'cause of that...

TildalWave

And we have ISEE-3 telemetry live: isee3.p3s.nl cc @nealmcb

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger oh no the EU is massively wasteful and ineffective, but it seems to be the only thing restraining the UK gov on things like privacy

vis. the DRIP act which got through the house of lords without even a vote!!

FEichinger

The US Free Trade Agreement isn't particularly helpful for privacy either.

@unpingableRory I apologize in advance for any future actions caused by the HoL ... Because I actually have a relative sitting there since Nov.

Rоry McCune

16:21

@FEichinger ah opportunity! grab them at the next family gathering and educate them on the rights/wrongs of spying/privacy :)

:16658949 you can always try :)

kalina

16:39

@RоryMcCune @FEichinger is actually a GCHQ plant in the German government post-Snowdon leaks to ensure that England's espionage channels remain open

Don't expect any pro-privacy stuff from him

Rоry McCune

@kalina Ahh I C, hey you could probably make good money by turning him in

kalina

@RоryMcCune hm? No, he leaks information to me that I exploit in my acquisitions of major companies, handing him over is counter productive for my goals

Rоry McCune

@kalina ooh double-agents'ville righto, mum's the word then

kalina

Governments aren't a long term thing, corporations will rule the world within the next 20 years

I am merely playing the long game

nealmcb

@RoryAlsop Damn - thanks for the perspective - sounds very un-fun. Time to plot for a very cool tech-led revolution, to show them the error of their ways?

Rоry McCune

16:42

@kalina yeah I was talking about that idea to the missus the other day. Of course predicted by people like Heinlein

kalina

Kalina will die at 30 because at that point in time I will become Empress - divine goddess of humanity

and abolish all government and religion

anybody who resists will be implanted with mind control cybernetics that... subdue... them

it's a foolproof plan, I don't see why somebody hasn't already done it

nealmcb

@TildalWave Last received frame was yesterday AM. Puzzled as to why it's called "live" telemetry. Is there a decoder somewhere?

TildalWave

@nealmcb no it's live, currently last frame received 18-Jul-2014 16:45:56 UTC (so seconds ago)

nealmcb

@TildalWave Right on! Seems like that just changed....

TildalWave

maybe you just caught page update?

#ISEE3 Slightly fine-tuned JPL script, ready for todays @ISEE3Reboot pass http://isee3.p3s.nl

Tweeted by DutchManPaul on July 18, 2014 at 4:30 PM

ah I see now, they lost lock for a while there

nealmcb

16:48

@TildalWave Or do I have to manually refresh my page?

TildalWave

@nealmcb you can, but it refreshes on its own too, just not that often

nealmcb

Ahh - no - just saw it auto-refresh

So now I just need the decoder decoder....

TildalWave

@nealmcb what do you wanna do? ka9q.net/isee.html

nealmcb

Phil Karn is such a cool guy. I got a tour of his home solar energy setup once after an IETF meeting.

TildalWave

17:04

oh wait, just reread ... not just any decoder you need a decoder decoder lol ... it's here: spacecollege.org/isee3/isee-3-propulsion-system-overview.html

most of what you need is on this pic:

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune From the French point of view, this is a case of "good riddance", coupled with "but we will welcome back our Scottish friends when they have freed themselves from the Brits".

France tried, for the last century, to use Germany as their nemesis, but they never achieved the level of love/hate that could be obtained with the English.

David Freitag

@TildalWave If there's anything I love, it's a good schematic.

tylerl

@DavidFreitag I prefer chocolate

David Freitag

@tylerl Yes, chocolate is tasty. But I much rather prefer working on a cool project.

tylerl

@DavidFreitag You're working on that project?

I thought you said you just like looking at the picture

David Freitag

17:15

@tylerl I wish.

TildalWave

so are you at least working on working towards working with it?

David Freitag

Well my current title is "Embedded systems engineer". That could take me any number of ways I suppose.

Working for NASA or SpaceX would be a dream come true.

TildalWave

SpaceX is hiring all the time, actually so is NASA

David Freitag

Yeah but I'm not going to get anywhere without even a bachelors degree.

TildalWave

working on those SDR would be cool too

@DavidFreitag Ettus is looking for design engineer

home.ettus.com/career/details/2

David Freitag

17:21

@TildalWave First line of requirements:

> Bachelors Degree in EE or foreign equivalent

Does not has. Yet.

TildalWave

@DavidFreitag make a sponsorship deal then

David Freitag

@TildalWave What like intern for them while I get my degree, then take on a full time position?

nealmcb

@TildalWave Great - I've seen that before, but never put the two together :)

TildalWave

@DavidFreitag well yeah that's one way of doing it

wait gotta setup new event ... BTW (more spam) : chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/9682/the-pod-bay?tab=schedule

our schedule

David Freitag

@TildalWave That's pretty much the exact setup I have. The only difference is I'm working full time and getting every cent of my tuition paid. I'm probably three years away from a bachelors in EE/CS

nealmcb

17:32

@TildalWave I'm seeing some little accelerometer blips. what is HPS TC / TCA, TCB?.

TildalWave

@nealmcb HPS is Hydrazine Propulsion System and A and B are the two arrays of thrusters, not sure what TC is, prolly Thermocouple?

I see some nutation on the accelerometers, and that TC could be drop in temperature on the fuel line, so I'm thinking they're trying to start thrusters ... like valves are working, fuel is going through but no ignition? Dunno, still waiting for some word on Twitter, they said they're gonna update less frequently because some of their folks are on the road

Rory Alsop

17:54

Yay - arrived home to find new TalkTalk router. Plugged it in. 2 minutes of setting up my security configs and done - works perfectly. Not any faster, like, but apparently better signal strength etc on the wireless side

Also arrived - the TalkTalkTV box I told them I couldn't use

I feel an ebay coming on, or maybe I'll prod about in it and see what's in it

Simon

When you TalkTalk to them do you ListenListen?

Yeah, I'll shut up.

Rory Alsop

@Simon ........

Actually, they really don't listen

Simon

#yolo

Oh.

Rory Alsop

(except for those under the pay of the NSA, obviously)

Simon

WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?

Rory Alsop

17:56

@Simon does that script actually work?

did someone run it

Simon

I got kicked twice.

Rory Alsop

I only saw you vanish once

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Probably a purpose built motorola CPU with a few super cheap electrolytics.

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag yeah. The router is an almost standard DLink DSL-3780, so I don't expect much for the PVR

In fact, aside from the simple interface for non-techies, everything else is 100% standard, so as soon as you enable advanced settings it becomes standard

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop If the signal is something special, you might see some high power RF chips, but other than that it will almost certainly be a single chip solution.

I really hate how the ISPs here are forcing people to use modems that are also routers.

I mean, for the average person it's the perfect solution. You plug it in and it just works. The down side is that the router only has base10 ports on it, and the WiFi goes about ten feet before you start losing signal strength

TildalWave

18:03

what's stopping you from chaining it to another router?

Simon

@TildalWave Satan.

Xander

@Simon Funny enough, we just had a question on the site about SATAN.

TildalWave

a.k.a. SANTA

Simon

Which is apparently AKA Santa

Haha

David Freitag

@TildalWave The base10 ports

You only get 10mb/s out of the router, it doesn't matter what you connect to it, it still sucks

TildalWave

18:05

@DavidFreitag So? You expect WAN to work faster?

Xander

@DavidFreitag How can they sell you 10mbit+ Internet service if you only have base-10 ports?

David Freitag

@Xander Because they never said that the router was capable of delivering the service, they just sold it to us.

Also because there is more than one port and WiFi. Multiple computers means more than just 10mb/s to the outside world.

Xander

@DavidFreitag Huh. That's odd. I have to say, I haven't seen that. Though I switched to using my own modem a couple of years ago.

David Freitag

The thing is massive too. It's 18"x16"x4" with no cooling whatsoever.

Simon

wat

Simon

18:32

OH NOES, a bag of chips mysteriously got in my hands!

David Freitag

@Simon What flavor?

Thomas Pornin

@Simon Aren't they called "crips" in English ? Or is that one of these British/American things ?

Simon

@ThomasPornin That must be it because it's actually written "chips" on the bag.

@DavidFreitag Doritos (original)

Xander

@ThomasPornin Crisps in the UK, Chips in North America.

Simon

These bags are so tiny, MOAR.

28 fucking grams.

\o/

Xander

18:38

@Simon You know there's this magical place called a "store" where you can go, and if you give them little pieces of colored paper, they'll give you great big bags of chips in exchange.

Simon

@Xander Or there's a magical stash at work which, so far, seems to be unlimited and it's free!

Xander

@Simon Fair enough, but if you're going to restrict yourself to that, you don't get to complain about the size of the bags, or the selection, or the freshness.

Quit looking the gift horse in the mouth, as it were.

Simon

They're fresh as nobs.

Xander

Oh good.

0

A: What is a good analogy to explain why passwords should be hashed to a layman?

Imagine you're Scrooge McDuck. You've been keeping your piles of money in one giant vault for a while now, but there's a problem with that: if a thief ever gains access to the vault, all your money will be lost in one go! That's no good. So, clever duck that you are, you decide to split your m...

We're now not only getting answers that are immensely long and tedious, but they're also only variations on existing answers that are also long and tedious.

David Freitag

@Simon Red bag?

Simon

18:51

@DavidFreitag Ya

David Freitag

@Simon I'm having a bag of sea salt garden vegetable straws

Simon

@DavidFreitag Are you sure that you're gonna make it if you eat that?

David Freitag

@Simon No, but it's all we have other than a bunch of electronic components.

TildalWave

@Xander 4 paragraphs is long?

Simon

@TildalWave Yes it is, our time is precious man.

TildalWave

19:01

you're in DMZ, everything looks long and tedious in comparison

Xander

@TildalWave Four paragraphs for one bad analogy.

Simon

I'm gonna post an answer with an analogy involving a turtle.

TildalWave

@Xander then comment with "TL;DR - brevity is the soul of wit"

Xander

I don't mind a long answer if it conveys useful information, like tyler's, but some of those are just utter crap.

@Simon Please do.

And if I'm going to have to read utter crap answers, I like for them to at least be short and sweet.

TildalWave

and he for some reason didn't think of all eggs in one basket analogy

gotta love voting to close as too broad on questions asking about security issues of a specific PHP platform

Leo King

19:15

Hi guys, I have a gripe, and wondered if anyone is willing to impart some advice on what to do about it :)

Just in case you're yet unsure whether to say "Yes", I'll give you a teaser. The gripe starts "PayPal is stupid."

Rory Alsop

@Xander there you go

Xander

@RoryAlsop Thank you!

@LeoKing That is indeed an established fact. Go on.

Leo King

Wonderful. PayPal is stupid, because they impose a 20 character upper bound on passwords. I've been sweeping through my most valuable services changing to secure passwords, and I think an account with a direct line to my bank account counts as a valuable service. So I want that to be secure.

Question is, what can I do about this? I gave them a call and the person on the other end of the line said that the company imposes the upper limit to ensure that users have trouble getting into their accounts because they forget their passwords.

I'm thinking about sending them a letter explaining why having an upper limit is a stupid idea, and asking them to change it. Do you think this is going to be less effectual than a fly hitting a wall?

Xander

@LeoKing This is not just a problem with Paypal. Many banks have far more restrictive policies. And yes, I don't believe anything you tell them will induce them to go through the effort to change, particularly since they seem to consider longer passwords to have negative value already.

Simon

@LeoKing I'm fairly sure that you're wasting your time, they're not gonna change anything.

Xander

19:27

@LeoKing That said, 20 characters is far more than enough for a secure password. Not the password that you would like, perhaps, but one that can't reasonably be guessed, or hash cracked.

A truly random 20 character password, even if you're only using upper and lowercase letters and digits has nearly 120 bits of entropy.

That's way, way more than enough.

Simon

Even my mom has less bits of entropy than that.

Leo King

I know, but I really like the correct horse battery staple method. According to PayPal, the best I'm going to get is correct horse batter.

I'm trying to avoid needing a password manager, and if all my passwords are strings of alphanumeric gibberish they're harder to memorise.

But if you're certain that I'm fighting a lost cause, seems I'll have to settle for a different password.

Xander

@LeoKing I'm fairly certain, at least in the short term. Your not wanting to use a password manager isn't going to trump their not wanting to pay the perceived support costs.

Leo King

Do you think it would cost them? This seems like a naive question, but does the character limit suggest they're using an algorithm that isn't suited to arbitrary-length passwords, and in order to change the limit they would have to change their password management system?

Because if so, I can understand why they wouldn't get off their asses to change that

Rory Alsop

19:44

oh dear:

0

Q: Are files hosted on cloud servers/websites/databases manually checked by people?

I was wondering ... when I upload a file to, say, Dropbox, does anybody personally check it to see what it is? Say I upload a copy of my Blu-ray movie to cloud storage ... will anyone check, and could they possibly tell law enforcement that I uploaded a digital copy online? Or is it all 100% au...

Xander

@LeoKing No, it really doesn't suggest that. I think they think (or perhaps know, based on testing or experience) that if they let people use longer passwords, a greater percentage of users will forget their passwords and burn support cycles getting access to their accounts back.

@RoryAlsop Yikes. That would be time-consuming.

Simon

@RoryAlsop That's actually what I do as a living.

Rory Alsop

@Simon all the while shouting the "y" word

Simon

@RoryAlsop You can say it, you did it once, you can do it again.

Xander

@Simon Will you get kicked? I'd be willing to say it if you get kicked.

Rory Alsop

19:47

@Simon not gonna do it. It's still top of the star wall. I know, I can remove it from there easily, but someone whould suggest I was misusing my mod powers :-)

actually

hang on

Xander

@RoryAlsop Ha ha, it's pinned.

Rory Alsop

Not any more

Simon

#yolo

Rory Alsop

pfft

Simon

It doesn't get anybody kicked.

Xander

19:48

@Simon Then I'm not going to bother.

Rory Alsop

@Simon that is probably because the kick script is away at dinner

Simon

@RoryAlsop Haha, right.

Rory Alsop

just guessing

in fact - hey, it's dinner time. Where did that all go?

back in a bit, probably with another new beer (cc @Xander)

Simon

Isn't it past dinner time?

David Freitag

►

Rory Alsop

19:49

@Simon it's dinner time until I eat dinner

then it's supper time :-)

Simon

Fair enough.

Xander

@RoryAlsop Nice!

Simon

I gotta get through my stash of Sleeman to buy dark beer

\o/

Xander

@Simon What kind of dark beer?

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