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12:07 AM
@Adnan That would make sense. After all, EBCDIC is 8-bit.
 
12:25 AM
Oh my god, this is ridiculous. I made a post about my online institution's website that wasn't secure at all.
Well, they've fixed some shit. For now, it seems that I cannot view other people's messages (I haven't tried much but at least it's safer than it used to be).
They hid parameters (I find them by viewing the source).
They disabled right-click (I can disable JS and it's possible).
and FINALLY:
They made us change our passwords once again. I then proceeded to do a password recovery and at the end of the process they showed me my password in plain text.
HOORA!
Also, they don't even send you an e-mail to recover the password, they just make you enter some personal information and give you your password at the end of the process.
 
@Simon Uhh, how does disabling right click do anything?
 
@ManishEarth Well, assuming they've based their bug fixes on what we told them, we would browse the user list and find their ID. Then, we'd use the ID to view their stuff.
So maybe they thought if we can't view the code, we can't get their ID.
Sigh.
 
@Simon ah. Disabling right click is stupid. Once you have the id, is it any good now?
 
@ManishEarth It looks like it because they're redirecting me to the main page when I don't own the message.
 
ah good then
 
12:31 AM
Also, passing a null parameter makes the website crash, obviously.
 
try sql injecting
 
@ManishEarth I did. They're using an homemade function to detect injection. It can be bypassed by using HTML codes but then I hit ASP's protection.
 
ah
Typical
 
I wonder if XSS is still possible. I guess my maths can wait (it cannot, I still have a lot to do but it will anyway).
LOL
I tried to type the character "<" then I got a pop-up saying "character not permitted".
This is obviously all JS, let's try to deactivate it and then reactivating to send the message.
 
@Simon Screw deactivating
 
12:39 AM
@ManishEarth Why is that?
I was able to send the script tag but it didn't execute, maybe they got smart.
 
The better way to go is to use the Chrome network tab (perhaps with persistence on), to determine exactly what POST request is being sent
Then use AJAX (I have a jQuery bookmarklet for this) to write your own POST
 
Yes of course but I'm way too lazy to do this. Besides, I gotta stop doing this, I'm not allowed to.
Time to do some maths after 3 weeks of break. Gotta be great.
 
1:01 AM
Make sure you get the eigenanswer.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:25 AM
My family is having a bit of trouble with his nephew and we need to check his iPod. He has the simple 4 digit passcode, but I know that it can potentially erase it if I enter the wrong passcode too many times. Does anyone know a method that works?
 
@ekaj Smudge analysis
 
That's above my level =p care for a little more of an explanation, or is it google-able?
FFS.
 
Or, if said family is in an actual position of authority over the nephew: Discipline.
 
There aren't any smudges. I was thinking technical.
And, that's not an option for various reasons. I need the passcode
 
2:41 AM
@ekaj. As a parent, my answer would be, get him to tell you. If he refuses, take it away.
No more iPod, no more problem.
 
As I said, that's not an option.
 
@ekaj Smudge analysis means that you look for fingerprint patterns on the screen to narrow down the possible passcode key combinations. Research shows it works quite well.
@ekaj. Ah, I see you've eliminated that already.
 
yepyep
Right now just looking for a filesystem viewer, past two I tried did not work.
 
3:03 AM
There are tools to are designed to crack pin codes for iOS devices.
Your best option is punitive, not technical.
Passcode cracking is primarily useful in forensics cases where the person doing the analysis has no access to the person who does know the code.
 
He wouldn't give us the code, cracking is the only method
it's fun to learn how to crack new passwords anyways
 
Sounds like you got a parenting kerfuffle on your hands.
 
It's a nephew, not a son
 
4:10 AM
There's always this option...
 
4:21 AM
Speaking as a parent, were I in that situation, I would confiscate the device. Speaking as a parent who is also a forensics analyst if I then I had to take the iPod into the office to unlock I would begin to get cranky.
Speaking as an Uncle, I would advise the same to my brother and let him beat it out of them.
 
Hi I just popped in here because I can never seem to catch anyone in a chat that pertains to the subject I am on.
Haven't figured this chat part out. Maybe no one is in here?
OK well if there is good day!
 
 
2 hours later…
6:32 AM
 
6:56 AM
@CharlieBrown Morning Charlie! Hours you posted are terribly slow here. Europe is still asleep, Americas are already asleep and the far East is... dunno, waiting for the other two to get up? It can be pretty busy at some other times of the days, so maybe just ask when it's more people active here?
 
7:10 AM
@tidalwave hey good morning to you; off to bed for me. Another day of job hunting tomorrow. I can't even remember the question I had but I really haven't figured out the chat rooms yet. I love the SE concept. Why did I discover it when job hunting?! LOL
Is the DMZ a Security chat room?
 
@CharlieBrown on occasion but mostly just general chatter on everything... oh, and you can reply to a post by simply clicking the post's rightmost icon (after the star). Alternatively, you can type @ and one or a few first username letters and use tab to complete the nickname of the person you're replying to
 
 
1 hour later…
8:37 AM
yaaaaaawn
 
@LucasKauffman LOL thanks... I'm just editing your answer for spelling and grammar, this should help... maybe I never finish, can you lend me a gun please? :))
 
@TildalWave LOL, yea I typed that on my phone :P
 
@LucasKauffman I figured, it's OK I'm nearly there
 
which answer?
 
@LucasKauffman add-ons
 
8:39 AM
because I edited it a bit already
 
@LucasKauffman I've noticed that also. I've just found the same link you put in then hehe
 
@TildalWave and this is played once we get to serious business: youtube.com/watch?v=xl84mTb_ZkE
 
@LucasKauffman blimey you're a bit peculiar this morning :)
 
I've just done an hour of kick boxing and this after noon I'm heading for the windtunnel
and I already lost 2 kilo's in 10 days time
so I'm quite happy ^^
 
@LucasKauffman You're trying to fit in your last year's swim trunks? Man, that'd mean your winter was shit :))
 
8:54 AM
@TildalWave I couldn't fit in my jumpsuit anymore :(
 
@LucasKauffman oh, that's different then :) yeah, I need to lose a few pounds also, I haven't been on my bike as much as I hoped I'll be this year.. .yet
 
@TildalWave yea I hope I can keep up once I go back to work, I'm going to try and skip my rope at least 15-20 minutes a day and go running twice a week.
 
@LucasKauffman btw I've abandoned that edit, it's fine as it is. I don't wanna be too anal really. I've started when it had more problems, but after your edit I'm only left with minor stuff, not worth creating a new revision
@LucasKauffman You see that is what I can't make myself doing... I just find it too boring. I like bike because it gets you places, and I have hills here right next to me, most of them with some cabin on top with benches and stuff
problem is I broke my front fork and the lock doesn't work, so it's pretty difficult to go uphill until I fix that
I cand find the part, it's only a small metallic whatsit but nobody has any spare ones, I'll prolly have to make one myself
 
@TildalWave ah you can be anal with me, I learn from it so I don't really care :p
@TildalWave ah I don't like to ride bikes because it just takes so long :P
 
@LucasKauffman What to get tired? You don't have many hills there do you? :P
 
9:05 AM
@TildalWave It's belgium
It's flat
we only have the ardens
 
Also full of chocolates
 
@ManishEarth and beer :(
 
@LucasKauffman dunno how far are you from there, didn't check on maps :P
 
@TildalWave very very far :p
I'm wondering if we should make a canonical question where we can send "I want security but I also want usability" questions to
3
 
@LucasKauffman yeah I get it, I don't like flat straights that much either... I have a few 12% steep roads here tho, that's different... and in nature, not much traffic
 
9:08 AM
@TildalWave that's the other problem here, we don't have a lot nature around here :p
 
@LucasKauffman starred it, we should look into that IMO
 
0
Q: Do we need a canonical question/answer to send all "Security vs Usability" questions off to?

Lucas KauffmanThere have been a few questions which actually all partially or completely boil down to the issues with Security vs Usability. I was wondering if we might need to make one canonical question and answer detailing the issues and common caveats?

 
9:35 AM
in Teachers' Lounge, 18 hours ago, by ManishEarth
Every day, SecSE gets: Q: Can I do something stupid? A: No, don't do stupid things.
3
 
hahaha
 
@ManishEarth ahh! you're everywhere!
 
@tombull89 lol
My main haunts are the Physics chatroom and the Teacher's Lounge (I also lurk in many other low activity rooms like the Robotics/Chem/RPi rooms)
But a monthish ago I started hanging out here
and sometimes in The Bridge
 
10:32 AM
hello i
 
@lynks \o sup
 
@LucasKauffman o7 I have asked a question in gamedev chat, I know you frequent over there.
I'm slowly learning opengl
 
@lynks I frequent there only when they tend to flag all the things :p
openGL is pretty cool
 
@LucasKauffman haha ok
 
I did an introduction to 3D programing in college
 
10:36 AM
@LucasKauffman how is GD chat now? Or does it need some moderatin' ?
 
@Manishearth I'll patrol it
@lynks we first did some programming within openGL and then created our own framework to build 3D models
was pretty interesting
 
@LucasKauffman great :). Ping me if you need anything
 
@LucasKauffman yeah I did something similar, but we concentrated on ray tracing, which I really loved. Simple geometry used to create epic images, I ended up spending many many hours writing my own tracer.
 
(I could just lurk, but then by chat sidebar would get full)
 
@lynks ray tracing was cool especially when adding reflection and transparency
I did manage to BSOD my computer once with it
too many iterations :(
 
10:41 AM
@LucasKauffman yeah exactly, I was always like...wow thats cool and so simple. And you just crank up the reflection depth to 8 and let it run for a week :P
 
we never got to moving animations thougg :(
 
not mine, but about the level I got to:
 
wow nice
 
actually I also had textures
 
brb foods
 
10:42 AM
I just think they're beautiful, in a way that polygons will never be. the fact that you can visually see every process.
 
11:17 AM
/me bounces nervously.
1H 42 minutes until a job interview
 
@Hennes good luck :)
remember, interviewers want you to do well, they are not there to catch you out :P
 
I know this firm wants several more people
That is a good thing.
But I am a windows sysadmin and not a security tester. And the job I am applying for is Junior Security Consultant
I learned a lot in the last weeks though. And I always was security aware.
But will that be enough?
 
@Hennes You probably mean security conscious? I guess that depends on the needs of the would-be employer, but it is an ever changing field, so I believe (my personal opinion) that it matters more what you're made of than how well you're cooked ;)
if that makes any sense :O as you have probably guessed, I'm on my lunch break :)
 
12:14 PM
@Hennes I agree with TidalWave. It's more about your ability to think about problems from a security perspective automatically than it is anything else.
@Hennes but obviously you'll need a decent grasp of platform-specific security issues before you try to do it as a job.
e.g. on windows: group policy, SMB security issues, auditing, account management, impersonation, various network stuff, etc.
 
1:04 PM
@Hennes pentesting is something you can learn easily
@Hennes Normally if you demonstrate the ability to learn at a decent or fast pace, it should be enough
@Hennes but if you are 43, then aren't you a little old for a junior position :p?
 
@LucasKauffman Depends on his skill set.
 
@ScottPack no but the thing about a junior position is that you will get paid for a junior position
 
@LucasKauffman That's a true statement.
Oi. I should go varnish my wood. Be back in a few minutes.
5
 
@ScottPack Is that some sort of weird ?
 
that's going on ScottPackFacts.com
 
1:18 PM
@TerryChia Only if you're pervy.
 
@ScottPack varnished your wood good?
 
Getting set up.
 
@ScottPack so was that hard wood you have there?
 
Do you guys even lift?
 
@LucasKauffman Oh yes. Very hard.
 
1:49 PM
It looks like white oak. So now that the transition piece is stained I just need to wait for it to dry enough to poly.
 
@ScottPack make it glance.
 
eh?
 
no
shine
sorry glance and shine is the same word in dutch :p
 
Heh. But no, I'm doing a satin. It's a transition piece from wood floor to tile.
 
I wanna puff puff some of the dutch stuff
 
2:00 PM
@Simon get a prescription I heard the amount of plants you can have per gram is insane in Canada
like 10 grams == 55 plants xD
 
But I was only singing a song, I don't smoke :(
 
@LucasKauffman When we moved in we had the upstairs carpets ripped up and refinished the nice oak floors that were underneath. That was in 2008. Now I'm finally getting around to reinstalling shoe mould and that transition piece. The carpet was the same height as the tile. Now there's a bit of a difference.
 
I was seriously thinking of registering scottpackfacts.com yesterday.
 
@ScottPack shoe mould?
@Simon I still am
It's only a fiver
for a year
and I have the webserver to host it on
so tempting.
 
I'd use my server at home but I gotta setup the RAID 1 on it.
 
2:05 PM
but then I think, if @ScottPack ever decides to change jobs, the last thing you want is a site like that :p
 
It would get thousands of hits daily anyway. He's that popular.
 
@LucasKauffman How much do you know about carpentry?
 
@ScottPack I'd guess the same amount as I know about quantum physics :p
 
@LucasKauffman Right. So there's these things called "floors"...
 
lulz
 
2:07 PM
@ScottPack that's that stuff underneath my feet when standing up right?
 
@LucasKauffman Exactly.
 
and I know what a shoe is
 
When your flooring is something like traditional plank flooring it looks great and tight until you get to the walls.
 
aha
ah yes logical
 
There's often gaping, usually small but sometimes as much as half an inch.
 
2:08 PM
so you need to fit that?
 
Yeah, the shoe mould is a piece of trim that runs along the corner of the floor and baseboard.
I just took this.
You should notice 4 surfaces. The floor, then the show mould, then the baseboard, then the wall.
 
Why is it uneven?
 
@ScottPack aha so it's that plate against the wall
that's what that's for
 
The baseboard is decorative. The show mould is simply to make a transition and cover any gapping.
 
@Simon see this stuff would be great for the website, Scott's tip of the week
@ScottPack so it can vary from floor to floor?
 
2:13 PM
Strictly speaking, shoe mould is a specific piece of trim. Sometimes builders use quarter round in that spot.
 
@LucasKauffman Ah man, don't say that.
 
Context
 
@ScottPack wow
 
Now, I think that he's just desperately trying to make us buy the domain.
 
when do you use a T-mold?
 
2:14 PM
@LucasKauffman In newer homes the materials and tolerances are such that the flooring sometimes really is flush wall to wall, and the baseboard + shoe really is only decorative.
@LucasKauffman The reducer, thresholds, and T-mold are all what's called "transition pieces". They are used when you go from one type of flooring to another.
 
Since the different flooring types can easily be different heights....
A T-Mold would be used when you're joining two different flooring types that are the same height, usually wood.
So let's say you had wood flooring throughout, except the kitchen which was tile.
 
you'd put that in between them?
so it's doesn't look ugly
 
Some years down the line you ripped up the tile and put in wood. There would be a rather unattractive gap between the two.
So, yeah, the transitions are just to make cleaner changes from one to another.
 
ah nice
whatabout the nosing?
is that for when you have a border somewhere?
 
2:17 PM
Or a step.
 
So like if you had a sunken room, big in the 80s to have the living room one step lower than the rest.
 
@Simon $8.49 btw
 
Thresholds are used at exterior door openings.
 
@LucasKauffman I think I can get it for 1.99 from godaddy with a coupon.
 
2:18 PM
@ScottPack ah I remember that from TV shows
 
Type "recap" in the coupon section on godaddy if you wanna try it.
 
@Simon godaddy makes you pay for subdomains, we wouldn't be able to make ilove.scottpackfacts.com
 
We had some pretty good gapping in my daughter's room before I installed that shoe, but I never took a picture of it. I'm seeing if I can find one that's a good example.
 
@LucasKauffman Really? They support SOPA and make you pay for subdomains? They suck.
 
@Simon I know they used to
 
2:21 PM
Here we go
 
is that a drain?
 
You can kind of see the gapping towards the top by the vent
 
ah vent
 
Air vent for central heat or air.
 
yes I can see it
 
2:22 PM
That's from a blog about refinishing an old home so they took the grill off to sand the floors for refinishing.
 
@ScottPack where did you learn carpenting?
 
@LucasKauffman 'learn' is a strong word.
 
My grandfather grew up on a farm in the Depression. That's trickled down into a strong sense of doing it yourself.
 
by the looks of things :P
 
@ScottPack the great depression
 
2:25 PM
I'm not a good carpenter, but I at least know what's involved in most of it and I can do some small things.
I honestly try to avoid carpentry if I can. It's the plumbing and electric that I don't mind doing.
 
@ScottPack I was kidding, I wouldn't have the first clue :P
apart from: carpentry involves wood.
 
When I was a kid I used to help build houses. Hell, my dad and I built a duplex apartment the summer before I went to college. We hired in people to do the foundation, drywall, and roofing. All that stuff sucks.
@lynks More than anything else I can talk intelligently to a carpenter and recognize good work from bad.
 
@ScottPack a useful skill. probably about equal to my level with car mechanics.
 
@ScottPack I used to not do that stuff since my father was mostly abroad, the thing I did learn from him was packing parachutes.
 
Now that I think of it, I did do two years of wood shop in high school.
 
2:28 PM
ah we did not have that choice
 
I came from a poor rural area. Half of my school was being prepared to go to college, the other half to other stuff. So we had a selection of more craftsman style courses available.
 
oh carpentry topic nice :) I've always loved laying down flooring and cutting it and all that... who's doing what? @ScottPack you?
@ScottPack what the hell is that sink doing on the floor? what's it for?
 
@TildalWave I'm staining and polying a transition piece.
@TildalWave Sink? Clearly you're not a golfer.
 
@ScottPack well... a hole
 
It's an air vent.
 
2:36 PM
@ScottPack no :) not a golfer, tho I did play once
@ScottPack well yes, I can't be a drain on the wooden floor, but what's it doing on the floor, there's a wall next to it?
 
@ScottPack now in all seriousness would you mind a scottpackfacts website or not?
 
@TildalWave Venting air.
@LucasKauffman Actually, no. Just so long as it paints me in a good light.
 
@ScottPack OK... but I've never seen a vent hole on the floor when there's a perfectly good wall next to it :P
@ScottPack heh good old dudemeister
 
2:40 PM
@ScottPack oh Luc!
 
Right, so let's step back. In countries with electricity there's this thing called "forced air heating and air conditioning"
 
@ScottPack oh right we don't have that here... what's elextricitee?
just curious why the vent hole doesn't go through the wall, that's all
 
In older homes it's more common to have ductwork in the floor, particularly on a first floor.
 
@ScottPack so what are you gonna put on top of it after you're done with the floor? a metal or a wooden finish?
 
Depending on the age of the home that ductwork may not have even been installed for decades.
Either one, depending on the tastes of the owner. Usually metal since it holds up better.
 
2:45 PM
@ScottPack isolated with asbestos!
because asbestos keeps you warm :p
 
So far as I know my home has no asbestos.
 
@ScottPack you're gonna replace the wooden panels there around the vent hole? or fill the cracks with epoxy or similar?
 
@TildalWave That's not my floor. That was one I found on the interwebs for illustrative purposes.
 
@ScottPack oh gee sry :|
 
But, no, they had used a drum sander on the rest of the floor and I think they were going to hand sand that area around the vent.
For the size of that gapping between the boards I probably wouldn't bother filling it with anything. It's big enough that it would be too had to match the color. I would probably let the poly cover it over and fill in the gap.
Of course, I'm not insane enough to refinish my own floors.
 
2:52 PM
@ScottPack I used to collect the dust for the mixture with the glue and fill the cracks with it... you can barely see it later since it's the same color than the wood of course
 
Not bad. Because of the glue it'll take stain differently, so you have to be careful of that.
 
@ScottPack that's before the wood paint anyway and you can use the paint in the mixture itself to match the colour... unless you use water based colors, that's then different
not sure water based colors would stick on the mixture or keep a seamless color, prolly not but never tried
 
Are we talking about the same thing? stain == wood paint?
Or do you mean actual latex paint?
 
@ScottPack same thing I think... the paint itself, the latex then goes over it, right? (sorry for any confusion we call those things differently)
what's that gloss finish paint called?
that's latex, no?
 
@TildalWave You mean the clear stuff that's only meant to seal and protect the wood?
 
3:02 PM
@ScottPack no... damn I really hate this when I don't know the words... I meant the paint (has colour - pigment in it)... but there's the "matte" one that soaks in the wood (I guess that's "stain == wood paint" no?) and the glossy finish one (not the clear stuff) that's latex? Did I get this correct?
 
Ah, ok. So yeah, if you want the wood to actually be displayed but want to change it's color you generally apply what we would call a stain. Wipe it on, let it sit for a few minutes to soak into the wood, then wipe off. (reapply if necessary) Then you would apply a clear protective layer over top of it. A polyurethane, or varnish, or something.
The other stuff, if you just want to make it a specific color but not display the wood, we would use what we call a paint. It's a mixture of all kinds of stuff, including pigment, that just goes on and dries. You'd also use the same stuff for walls.
The newer paints over here are all latex based. So they're water soluble but as it dries the latex firms up and provides the protection and stability.
 
@ScottPack yes... OK so we talk of the same things :) anyway, for that glue mixture I used the stain colour, clear epoxy glue, and the dust out of the drum sander's bag (when you do the second round and the color layer is already off from before)
 
So you mix the stain in with the glue?
 
@ScottPack yes
some of it... not too much because it makes for a deeper colour than the wood would if you use too much of it... just a "hint" of it in the mix, and it also makes it a bit easier to apply
 
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that.
I have a friend who mixes his stain in with his polyurethane. Most of the time he's just making something, but isn't overly concerned about the colors matching exactly. It also makes it a one, or maybe two step process.
 
3:10 PM
@ScottPack some mate of mine told me that trick, I was also looking a bit funny at him then... but it turns out it fills smaller cracks that the varnish wouldn't fill really nice and you eventually can't tell the difference
 
Yeah
Supposedly it also thins out the poly just enough so that it also soaks into the wood a little, making the surface stronger.
You lose a lot of the ability to color match and blend, since the different woods will take the stain differently, but if your'e just throwing together a basement shelf who cares.
 
@ScottPack I guess ... it kinda resembles sap ... gluey, barely liquid and dries pretty much the same too (not much difference in volume when it's dry)
@ton.yeung What do you mean with passing auth headers? passing them by what method? POST, GET?
@ton.yeung OK but where would this "header" be stored? Client-side local/session storage? Or in a HTML field passed along each request with the POST method? Or as a URI parameter?
 
3:33 PM
@ton.yeung I think you want @AviD for that, because I have problems imagining the model and there's probably no point in repeating it all again. IIRC you had a conversation with him about it yesterday?
@ton.yeung chat.stackexchange.com/users/18123/avid should be all there along with the typical activity times and so on ;)
@ton.yeung sure, no problem ;)
 
Yeah, weird that @AviD isn't around right now. Must be plotting something in his lair.
Google the word 'gay' right now, do it, and look at the search bar.
 
@TerryChia Are you trying to suggest this has something to do with @AviD's absence?
 
@Iszi No, but now that you mention it... ;)
 
There are a number of states that also have laws banning same-sex marriage. Now that the federal law has been struck down as unconstitutional I wonder what that will mean for the states.
 
/me returns with mixed feelings.
 
3:46 PM
@ScottPack Nothing at all. AFAICT they only struck down subsection 3 of DOMA - the part that disallows gay married couples from receiving federal benefits. Other parts, like the one that prevents states from being required to recognize gay marriages from other states, may still remain effective.
 
MG seems even a better place to work than before.
And I still do not have the expertise. (which is now confirmed).
I do seem to have the right way to work. But if that is enough?
More on Monday. :(
 
@ton.yeung Betcha our federal taxes are taking a hike next year, though.
 
@Lucas Kauffma Yes, though I am not 43. I assume you got that date from my profile (which is public data and 'thus' shows the unix epoch as my birth date).
However I am 41. So yes. Old for junior
But the place looks nice. the job seems fun. The coworkers are geeks.
What is there that is not to love?
And oh, they do take education seriously
@Polynomi most of the jobs MG gets is webapp testing.
Responding to old (1-3 hours messages)
Which will show up in their inbox
 
@Iszi That's pretty lame.
 

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