The DMZ

Rory Alsop

18:02

@jcolebrand wow! What is all that code doing? 10+ seconds...just wow!

Thomas Pornin

@jcolebrand Investigation method 1: launch the Task Manager on your server and see if the server is burning 100% of its CPU during these ten seconds of latency, or if it is idle.

If it is mostly idle, then it is waiting for something to happen from the network, so:

Investigation method 2: install Network Monitor on the server and see what the server is trying to do during that time.

jcolebrand

@RoryAlsop wanna see a screencap? ;-)

Thomas Pornin

Last I had some similar problem, it turned out that the server was stalling on DLL loading

Rory Alsop

@jcolebrand go for it :-)

Thomas Pornin

DLL where signed and the machine was trying to validate the certificates, downloading CRL from Verisign

but the network config was closed and DNS resolution on verisign.com was stalling

network capture is the most powerful tool for analysis of performance issues in Microsoft products

at least that's what I found in my day job.

jcolebrand

18:07

I'm gonna burn this image in bit

Nothing in my code actually implements a BeginRequest method, but obviously something is happening there.

Hitting that .svc calls a ClaimsTransformation class that inherits from a MS base class

That's it. It validates some claims and returns.

But, this is where I get lost. It's too dynamic and too complex.

Thomas Pornin

@jcolebrand Well, that tells you where in the code (roughly) the time is spent, but it does not tell you if the CPU is spinning madly or just sitting idle during the 22 seconds.

jcolebrand

@ThomasPornin very true. I don't have direct access to the box.

I know that that machine is processing other requests at the same time with no issues, does that help?

Thomas Pornin

@jcolebrand This will make things... harder.

jcolebrand

This is literally the only service that hangs repeatedly

I'm mostly being nosey at this point because someone else's code makes my code look horrible.

Rory Alsop

SF is definitely going to be the best place to try and bottom out what could be going on in there...

that's very weird

jcolebrand

18:10

kk

Rory Alsop

In other news - look what amused me today:

blinking stalkers :-)

Adnan

@RoryAlsop I'm jelly!

jcolebrand

@RoryAlsop hey, that reminds me. I got a 10% one of those today

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop They sent one out to me saying that I was in the top 10%, which I thought was kind of a backhanded complement as there's 200m users on Linkedin so that makes me one of only 10-20 mill people!

Rory Alsop

@Adnan I'm just vaguely amused - 2 other folks I know also got one, so we started thinking it was a scam, until another friend pointed out his only said 5%

@RoryMcCune lol

If you click on the link it is basically just a thanks for being on LinkedIn - quite amusingly low content

Iszi

18:15

@RoryAlsop Congrats!

Adnan

@RoryMcCune Actually the LA Times talked about the same thing

Rory Alsop

@Iszi I want a 0.5% 'cos then I could be One in a Million :-)

Adnan

@RoryAlsop Well, you'd be one amongst other million like you.. but yeah

:D

Rory Alsop

made me laugh anyway

Lucas Kauffman

there are 200 million linkedin profiles I think no?

Rory Alsop

18:18

@LucasKauffman yep

Good news - Slavery in the UK finally abolished today! anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com.es/2013/02/…

Rory McCune

@Adnan I liked a version I saw on twitter just now - "I guess what "you're in the top 10% of linkedin accounts" means is "you're in the top 100% of accounts that have updated kinda recently""

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop I don't really understand why they have to work without wage?

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman someone in power managed to pass a bill so it could be demanded of the unemployed. Personally, I would like all fit and well unemployed folks to be working - but pay them, even if only minimum wage

not paying them is just wrong

and now illegal

Scott Pack

So Workfare was a program by which the unemployed were put to work. Presumably a requirement to raw unemployment benefits?

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack yup

Scott Pack

18:22

@RoryAlsop So aren't they technically being compensated for their work?

Rory Alsop

but rather than pay them, they just had to work. For nothing. For companies.

@ScottPack not really, no

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop That reminds me of an ad for a big French online dating service called Meetic; they were claiming that they helped create more more than 300 couples per day. There was a fast scrolling text underneath, but if you read fast you could learn that the actual fact was that an average daily 600 of their users failed to renew their subscription when it expired.

Rory Alsop

their benefits are well below minimum wage

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop So they received nothing in exchange for the labou?r?

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack they were permitted to keep receiving basic unemployment benefits (which all unemployed folks get, but that are well below minimum wage)

Adnan

18:24

@ThomasPornin I'm a bit slow, I don't get it.

Rory Alsop

it was effectively a scam

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop So if they refused to work they would stop receiving unemployment benefits?

Rory Alsop

@Adnan they were implying that these 600 had paire up

@ScottPack yep

Adnan

@RoryAlsop I kind of thought of it like that, but isn't a bit silly to make such a claim? ahhh

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop So in exchange for performing services they were receiving compensation in the form of unemployment benefits. Yes, I completely understand now why it was considered slavery.

I'm with you, though, if they were put to work in such a way then they should have been receiving fair market wages.

I'm more taking umbrage with the comparison to slavery.

Thomas Pornin

18:26

@Adnan We don't say "silly"; it is rude and embarrassing. We say "marketing".

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack The law here states that there is a minimum wage which any employer must pay their employees. This was a way of forcing people to work at much lower wage or remove all their benefits.

@ScottPack yeah - fair enough

I'm with you then

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop Sure, we have the same kinds of laws. It would be a labor law violation, though. Not even something as unseemly as indentured servitude, let alone slavery.

Lucas Kauffman

It's hot topic here as well, considering in some cases it's more beneficial to keep your unemployment benefit than actually working

Scott Pack

Now, that being said, our labor laws have very loose provisions when it comes to children working in something defined as "family owned business". I suppose those children could probably claim, and would have a compelling argument, that they were being subjected to indentured servitude.

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman Here if you are unemployed and have children, it is likely to hurt your income a lot if you go back to work. Which the government is hopefully setting right along the way...

@ScottPack that is an interesting one - my kids want to work as soon as they are able, but the rules seem astonishingly complex until they are 16

Lucas Kauffman

18:30

@RoryAlsop yea here it's almost the same, the minimum wage is around 1100 euro, the unemployment benefit is 794 euro I think

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop I'm not sure if ours stop at 18 or when you finish high school (assuming you are there past 18).

But there are restrictions about how many hours, which days, how many hours per day, how late your shift can be, etc, etc.

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop In France, work is allowed beginning at 14 if that's apprenticeship; otherwise 16 (school is mandatory until the age of 16) and there are restrictions (e.g. you cannot lawfully get a pre-18 to climb on a ladder or even a stool).

At 18, you can vote, get drunk and work without restriction.

(hopefully not in that order; you shall not work when drunk, and it would be hard to vote without first getting drunk, given what we get as politicians.)

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin here you can get drunk on beer from 16 and whisky from 18

unless you are going to a bar, then you need to be 18 for everything

Thomas Pornin

In France you can get in a bar from the age of 16 but you can be refused the stronger drinks when you are below 18.

Adnan

@LucasKauffman Getting drunk on Whiskey?!!

Please don't tell me you take Whiskey shots

Scott Pack

18:40

Here a parent can purchase alcohol for their children's consumption, but to purchase your own you must be 21.

Adnan

In Finland, we have two interesting laws when it comes to alcohol

Rory Alsop

@Adnan Irish friend of mine did military service in Finland. He's a good drinker :-)

Not sure if the 2 facts are related

Adnan

We have something called the "look like" law. If you look 30 and older, you won't be asked for ID

Last year it was 25

and you can't order double drinks

Rory Alsop

@Adnan what. At all?

Can you order 2 drinks and then pour one into the other?

Adnan

@RoryAlsop yup

which is quite silly

Lucas Kauffman

18:44

@Adnan no of course not

Rory Alsop

Think we had a rule (maybe not a law) that you couldn't be served a snakebite (1/2 lager, 1/2 cider) in one glass. Which meant you would order a hafl of cider and a half of lager and a pint glass, pour them into the pint glass at the bar and smile sweetly at the bar staff

Lucas Kauffman

in reality I can be 12 go do grocery shopping, get a bottle of wine and no-one will complain

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman Do you often have 12 year olds buy alcohol for you?

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop indeed I remember that, I had an irish friend who was surprised that was allowed in belgium

@ScottPack no but for instance, a child goes shopping for his parents, he brings a bottle of wine

Rory Alsop

back later all - time to feed the brood#

Scott Pack

18:47

@LucasKauffman You people what with your "nearby shopping". Where I grew up it was 15 minutes of windy country highway to get to the nearest grocery store.

Adnan

@ScottPack I want my kids to grow up like that

Scott Pack

@Adnan It also meant that the closest person near enough to my age for socializing was 1.5 miles on the same highways. Too dangerous for walking.

Lucas Kauffman

@ScottPack if I do 15 minutes of country highway I'm in the next big city

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman I would have had to drive 30 miles on the freeway to the next "city". About 65 to the nearest city.

Lucas Kauffman

1

Q: How to politely ask someone to Google it

I'm working in a team of 8 consultants just like me. I'm the youngest member of the team and also the one with the least experience (on resume at least). But 4 of the 8 members of the team will often come and ask me questions like: Do you know if W3C allows the font tag in HTML5? Do we have thi...

colleagues

I think that's a really good question actually

Scott Pack

19:10

Nice

Thomas Pornin

We have 16359 users on Sec.SE and only 60 read the "about" page. Does it say a lot on the average user, on the "about" page, or on both ?

Scott Pack

That's only those users who have read the about page in the last couple of weeks.

Adam McKissock

Hey all

Thomas Pornin

Hello

How goes your survey on social networks ?

Adam McKissock

It's at the same point it was at yesterday

Still waiting for the Uni to email it around

@ScottPack did you get a chance to look at that CV?

Scott Pack

19:26

@AdamMcKissock Sorry bub, I actually forgot completely.

Adam McKissock

:/

Scott Pack

Both last night and today I've been elbow deep in either thesis work or debugging a problem with PGP since I did the upgrade last week.

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock It's his age

Adam McKissock

:'(

Lucas Kauffman

anyone good here with sqlmap?

I am 100% sure I have a vulnerable post parameter, but sqlmap doesnt see it

Scott Pack

19:28

@AdamMcKissock Last week I updated our PGP server, and there are apparently some issues that just as I was leaving the office yesterday one of our users got in touch with me.

Adam McKissock

hmmm

Scott Pack

Just my luck, the update was released mid-December. We tested it, I rolled it out Thursday of last week. Then Friday Symantec released a patch with a freaking laundry list of resolved issues, one of which is this guy's problem.

Lucas Kauffman

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman Hey man, I tested this shit in our proper test environment.

Adam McKissock

"Then Friday Symantec released a patch with a freaking laundry list of resolved issues, one of which is this guy's problem." - So then use that?

Lucas Kauffman

19:30

@AdamMcKissock you aren't familiar with change management are you?

Scott Pack

Check out this from the issues list

> Resolved the issue with Symantec File Share Encryption where a Windows 7 system locks if a Symantec File Share Encryption file is being opened in combination with Windows Search Indexer. [2685665]

Lucas Kauffman

LOL

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman I dont handle change well, no. As evidenced by the fact that I am still trying to get a new gfx card working four hours later

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock I will be. They send me an email whenever a major version is released, but the only way to find out if a patch is released is to log into their patch download service. No notifications, no email subscriptions, no rss feeds, nothing fucking useful.

Adam McKissock

@ScottPack Write a script to login and scrape the page?

Scott Pack

19:32

@AdamMcKissock I'm not a smart enough web programmer to figure out how to authenticate and scrape the page.

Adam McKissock

pycurl.sourceforge.net

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack Then find an unpaid intern to do the job.

Lucas Kauffman

or mechanize

Scott Pack

All in all, it's a nightmare. Given the nature of the patch, and the size of our userbase, I can probably get it fast-tracked through the change process. I'll still need to wait until a maintenance window to apply it, which will be no earlier than Thursday.

Lucas Kauffman

@ScottPack wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize

Scott Pack

19:34

@ThomasPornin We have 3 interviews for a student assistant tomorrow, then 3 more on Thursday.

Thomas Pornin

Apparently slavery is no longer allowed in the UK, but in the USA it should still work.

Adam McKissock

Wait, dont you have like zillions of poor IT students floating around?

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock Look up two lines. :)

Adam McKissock

Interviews? Close your eyes and pick one

Thats essentially how it works here

Scott Pack

The hiring process is annoying enough that I would rather spend two days interviewing and get someone literate who will show up.

I mean, after all, that upgrade I did last week rebranded PGP Desktop. Someone needs to update all those screenshots and how tos.

Adam McKissock

19:40

I'm a teaching assistant at Uni, and all I needed to do was ask for it and it was given

Scott Pack

Is it any wonder the European Union is imploding?

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack It is not imploding, we are just finally coming around kicking the Brits out.

Adam McKissock

Eh?!

Meh, what do I care, I dislike this country anyways

thank christ for the bootrec tool!

Scott Pack

So I just turned on the slide type feature of this fancy new keyboard. That's pretty slick. I wonder if I'll end up getting enough of the hang of it to be useful.

Adam McKissock

aaaaannnndd its broken again

Lucas Kauffman

19:48

@ScottPack slide type ?

Adam McKissock

Swype

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock I've heard of that, but I've never used it. This is built into the default keyboard now.

Adam McKissock

swype.com

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin I thought you were canadian?

Adam McKissock

Yeah, its built into droid ones as of 4.0

or 4.1

something like that

Scott Pack

19:49

@AdamMcKissock I've been using Hacker's Keyboard on the Nexus7, but since I just upgraded the phone to 4.0.4 I thought I would try out the base model.

Thomas Pornin

@LucasKauffman I am French but I live in Canada. I am not (yet) Canadian.

Scott Pack

@ThomasPornin I thought for sure you had gotten citizenship. When are you eligible?

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack I have been eligible since January 1st, 2012. I sent the form on January 2nd, 2012. I am still waiting.

At that time, they announced an average processing time of 19 months; it has now gone to 21 months.

And it is still an average.

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin fleeing like good old Gerard are you?

Scott Pack

@ThomasPornin Seriously.

Lucas Kauffman

19:54

I find the french canadian people speak a little funny

it's like the dutch vs the belgians, same language but they have really cool accents

Thomas Pornin

@LucasKauffman Hey, finally, did you got him, or did he go to Russia ?

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin I think he went to Russia, but we did get that guy from LVMH

they are planning to move their headquarters over here or part of it anyway

Thomas Pornin

@LucasKauffman He is even richer, and more sober. You made a good deal.

As for the accent, it seems that, historically, it is the French (and Swiss and Belgians) who speak a little funny.

Adam McKissock

This gfx card is the bain of my existance

Thomas Pornin

In th 17th century, Canadians were known to speak a "pure" French.

Then, in 1789, it became fashionable in Paris to stop speaking like nobles, and instead speak like parisian lawyers, who had their own diction.

At that time, Canada has become British and was not impacted.

Lucas Kauffman

20:00

@ThomasPornin lol parisian AND lawyers

Thomas Pornin

So Québec is supposed to have retained the "true" French

That's the story they tell here, at least.

I find it a bit suspicious, but it is a nice story.

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin you don't say :P

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock On Linux?

Adam McKissock

@ScottPack Windows

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman You want to make the joke? I'm not sure I do.

@ThomasPornin There is a similar story about British Accents and the Northern Colonies.

Gilles

20:04

IIRC it's a known phenomenon in linguistics that languages tend to evolve less in peripheral areas than in areas of historical dominance

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock is it ATI?

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman Yes

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin Wasn't french also spoken by the English nobless after the french captured brittain?

I heard that was the reason why there are so many french looking words in english

@AdamMcKissock There's your problem

Gilles

@LucasKauffman yes, but it went out of fashion

Thomas Pornin

@LucasKauffman It was much earlier, in 1066.

And it lasted only for one or two centuries.

Adam McKissock

20:06

@LucasKauffman It seems to be the drivers that are screwed

But no driver that I try works

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock not even the latest?

Adam McKissock

apart from the default generic one that comes with windows

Lucas Kauffman

have you tried reinstalling the =OS?

Adam McKissock

Tried the lastest current, tried the latest beta, tried the latest alpha

Lucas Kauffman

so if the generic one works, why not stick to that?

Adam McKissock

20:06

Its a fresh install as of two days ago

Because I cant setup my multi monitors with the generic one

Lucas Kauffman

aha

Adam McKissock

and that was the only reason i bought it

Lucas Kauffman

have you visited the ATI forums?

Adam McKissock

yeah, been googling for a while

Lucas Kauffman

do you still have the box and the ticket?

Adam McKissock

20:08

yeah, but I bought it a while ago

might try the 32 bit drivers

been using the 64

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock try older ones

Adam McKissock

I tried the ones on the CD that came with it

those didnt work

Lucas Kauffman

that's sad :/

Adam McKissock

yeah

"The use of these drivers requires the .NET 4.0 framework to be installed"....

If that fixes it, so help me god....

Lucas Kauffman

the only ATI box that's running here is my media player and it took ATI 9 months to fix the issues

Adam McKissock

20:20

I've never had an issue with my older card

which was also an ATI card

and at nearly 300 quid, i would expect this to be functional

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock It's k hug

Adam McKissock

growls

Lucas Kauffman

there there

Adam McKissock

going for broke and updating the cards BIOS

Lucas Kauffman

this will either end in euphory or tears

Rory McCune

20:32

@LucasKauffman youtube.com/watch?v=KwIt7GD88vc

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune athene's mom is epic

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman yeah she manages to pull off the 'U mad Bro' shirt quite well!

Adam McKissock

20:46

Right!

Windows is getting nuked

Adam has had enough of these shennanigans

Thomas Pornin

@AdamMcKissock Way to go !

You will then reinstall another Windows, or switch to something else ?

Adam McKissock

Im going to try win7 again, then consider switching

theres nothing else that really meets my needs, however

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock are you a gamer?

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman I enjoy games now and again, yeah

Lucas Kauffman

google app engine?

ah nvm then

Adam McKissock

20:59

so its not like there's much else out there for gaming on

Thomas Pornin

@AdamMcKissock By the way, I recently had a lot of trouble with an ATI card on an HP computer. The computer came with Windows 8, but I removed the disk and instead placed two disks which had an installed Windows 7.

Adam McKissock

unfortunatelly

What sort of issues?

Thomas Pornin

It turned out that the ATI card had a custom PCI identifier which was recognized only by the special driver from HP

and that driver was only for Windows 8

Adam McKissock

hmm

Thomas Pornin

No other driver accepted to even "see" that card

Adam McKissock

21:01

See, im getting random black lines/artifacting using the ATI drivers

but the microsoft default driver works fine

Thomas Pornin

Oh, that's something else, then

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin lol - hang on, aren't you Canadian French? Or are you French French?

oh, someone else said that

nvm

Adam McKissock

"To check for updates, you must first install an update for windows update. This update will ensure that future updates (including those for windows update) will update successfully."

My brain....

It hurts....

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop From a "French Canadian" point of view, doing painful things to Brits is fair game, too.

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin heh - from a Scottish point of view likewise :-)

Thomas Pornin

21:07

@RoryAlsop As they say about rugby: "Scots will always support two teams: the team of Scotland, and whoever is playing against England".

Adam McKissock

►

Lucas Kauffman

"Willeh"

Adam McKissock

That video makes me lol everytime

still screwed on a fresh install

might try win8

see if that works

fuck it im putting my old one back in

but tomorrow

Scott Pack

You seriously expect something to work better on Win8?

Lucas Kauffman

@ScottPack Microsoft told us it would!

Adam McKissock

21:18

Yeah, i realised it was a stupid statement

back to job hunting!

Scott Pack

Ach. It always annoys me to post solid gold and get no love for it. Down with the big sites like SF!

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock I remember that one, I got lucky and my first google landed me a contract :P

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman I have the problem that I dont actually know what I want to do...

Scott Pack

Oh well, I've got myself another performance test running. Nothing quite like replaying an hour's worth of tcpdump at real time to give me some contemplation time.

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock what are you interested in?

@AdamMcKissock do you want to become a PHB or you want to go hardcore technical?

or do you want to become a person no-one likes? (auditor)

Adam McKissock

21:25

@LucasKauffman Im already a person no-one likes :P

whats a PHB?

Lucas Kauffman

Pointy Haired Boss

Adam McKissock

ah

Scott Pack

You have the rest of your life to throw it away on management.

Lucas Kauffman

a lot of us here started out at the big 4

including all the Rorys

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman You people.

Adam McKissock

21:26

I dont know if I would like a really large company

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman Rories?

Lucas Kauffman

yes those

@AdamMcKissock I was sceptical about that at first, but it turned out quite all right

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop @RoryMcCune Which pluralization do you people prefer? Rories or Rorys?

It depends heavily on the company. The right big company won't feel like the big faceless building where everyone is a cog.

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman Even though they actually are?

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock yea, I work for a company with 117.000 employees world wide

and to be honnest all I care about currently is my team

and we have a good team

so you don't know everyone, but it's still a nice place to work

Adam McKissock

21:30

Hmm, I would really love to start my own business one day, but thats obviously a long way off

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman I more passed through the Big 4 although it was a very informative job, taught me a lot.. I've tried a number of different role types at the moment tester seems to fit best..

@ScottPack hmm I think I'd say Rories ..

Scott Pack

Based on what I hear from these guys one of those firms might not be a bad place for me if I leave the university.

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock you don't have to stay forever

Adam McKissock

Yeah, I suppose

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune For proper names I think Rorys is considered more grammatically correct, but it just feels strange to me.

Thomas Pornin

21:31

@ScottPack Tory / Tories

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune It is much the same skeezy feeling when I type out the name of one of our trainers: Grammer.

Adam McKissock

Im thinking about applying for this position thats open with RIM

Rory McCune

@AdamMcKissock you can try different roles from my experience different company types and sizes have different ups and down-sides, it's kind of a matter of finding which works best for you. running companies is a lot of paperwork (definitely one of the downsides...)

Scott Pack

@ThomasPornin But in that case is that not the party name as opposed to a group of people named Tory?

Rory McCune

@ScottPack yeah Rorys feels odd, rories seems to express the plural better to me.

Lucas Kauffman

21:32

@AdamMcKissock try to decide first if you want to be an internal employee or a consultant

Adam McKissock

Hmmm

Lucas Kauffman

I'm not sure if everyone will agree on this, but I think being a consultant gives you an edge when you want to start your own company

Adam McKissock

I really should have thought about this sort of stuff earlier, I graduate in a few months

Lucas Kauffman

because you will have had a lot of client contact

Rory McCune

I'd extoll the benefits of trying them all but gotta watch that one in interviews, no company wants to hear that you're not planning to stay :o)

Adam McKissock

21:34

@RoryMcCune Yeah, thats a good point

Plus I'm awful at interviews

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock if you want I can practice this with you over skype

ask @RoryAlsop as well, he's probably done tons

@AdamMcKissock I didn't think about it after I got my diploma in my hand

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman Errr, I'll think about it

Thanks

Rory McCune

I've taken and given quite a few interviews. For me as an interviewer, preparation and enthusiasm were key. I was amazed that people would turn up to interviews without having thought about the role or the company...

big co's do competancy based interviews which are (IMHO) lame, but you can prepare for them as they always ask the same kind of questions

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune I had a guy in an interview telling me he would love to do strategic consulting or implementation (at big company we all work(ed) for)

Rory McCune

could be quite a wide range...

Scott Pack

21:39

@AdamMcKissock Why is a manhole cover round?

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock Where do you see yourself in 5 years?

Adam McKissock

@ScottPack So that you could put it back on easily in any direction?

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack I see at least four reasons for that one.

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock Also so it can't fall in!

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack That's one.

Gilles

21:40

@ScottPack because it's the shape of an old chestnut

Scott Pack

@ThomasPornin I will require 2π reasons.

Gilles

@LucasKauffman I don't, but if I do then it'll probably be in a mirror

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman From an interview point of view, or actually?

Lucas Kauffman

@AdamMcKissock just a typical interview question

Scott Pack

:8089293 That was supposed to have been a pi, but it apparently didn't copy/paste very well.

Gilles

21:42

@ScottPack no, it did, it's the fault of my font

Scott Pack

@Gilles It looks more like an 'n' on my screen too.

Gilles

in my browsers the only differences between π and n are one pixel missing in n and one pixel shifted by one position

plus antialiasing blurs the difference further

Thomas Pornin

Mmh, let's try:
- so the cover does not fall in
- so that it can be put back easily
- so that it can be rolled on the ground (these things are heavy)
- to match the manhole structure, which is often a tube because that's more resistant to lateral pressure
- the size and shape are standard: new covers should match previously deployed manholes
- changing the shape would imply designing new foundry molds, which are expensive
- "we always did it that way" (general inertia will count as 0.28 reasons, completing the total)

Scott Pack

@Gilles That's how it looks to me. In the Google results tab from which I copied it the top bar is complete on both sides. I have to assume different fonts, though I certainly can't see it.

Gilles

@ThomasPornin because manhole cover designers are recruited based on that question

Rory Alsop

21:55

I think Rories. Or possibly Global Overlords?

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock Is the email address you listed on the document correct?

Adam McKissock

@ScottPack Yes, all the information is correct and accurate

Rory Alsop

@Adam - if you're down this way over the next couple of weeks, would be happy to talk through interview techniques. Have done many in various frameworks so can give pointers.

Scott Pack

@AdamMcKissock Awesome. I have some comments that I'll email over to you. I need to run at the moment to pick up the kid.

Adam McKissock

@RoryAlsop Awesome, I'll let you know if I am.

@ScottPack Great! Thanks again :)

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