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00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

4:00 PM
@jippie Not sure,
let me try with my other guy
ok now i switched the wires back and I will try with the other attiny
 
@coding_corgi tiny
 
Ah, yes. As usual the sun has come up, and @coding_corgi and @jippie are fixing the baretinyduino.
 
@angelatlarge Once I get my programmer rolling, I will have unlimited possibilities!
 
@angelatlarge have a look at the starred msgs
 
Bwa ha ha ha ha!
 
4:04 PM
@jippie You mean this:
35 mins ago, by jippie
@coding_corgi Are you sure you don't live in a haunted house? Never met anyone with as many AVR-programming-problems as you face.
or this?
yesterday, by jippie
@AnindoGhosh I'll go for a real/social life after I hit 10k rep.
 
same error for a different attiny
avrdude: stk500_paged_write(): (a) protocol error, expect=0x14, resp=0x11
avrdude: Send: V [56] @ [40] . [00] . [00] . [0e] [20]
avrdude: Recv: . [15]
avrdude: stk500_cmd(): programmer is out of sync
 
@angelatlarge there is an addendum to that one.
@coding_corgi it must be the haunted house then.
 
@jippie What about outside?
 
@coding_corgi do you live near an old graveyard?
 
@jippie No!
The ATtiny85 and the 555 Timer look quite alike...
 
4:08 PM
any bad spells from an old lady?
 
@jippie No,
Maybe from Atmel...
 
different PC?
different Arduino?
different cables?
 
@jippie Now that you mention cable,
 
I don't know, I'm pretty much lost here, just like you are
 
Ahhh!
Nothing!
I only have 1 dweeno
I am trying to use this pc since it is a netbook, and I travel a lot so I like that it is small so I will only be using this pc
@jippie tried a different cable but nothing
 
4:16 PM
you could try remove the resistors
 
@jippie I once did it without the resitors and my tiny got REALLY hot
 
@coding_corgi ?????
 
@jippie ?
 
that should not happen
 
I'll do it again...
took the resi. out, same error
did not overheat
So let's see, we can't write to the ATtiny
because the programmer is not in sync with the tiny
so we either have to slow the the UNO down or speed it up
@jippie right?
 
4:26 PM
@coding_corgi OK, I'm going to pass the question to the 3rd line experts. He is called @angelatlarge
 
Should I get WINE and use Atmel Studio?
 
@jippie @coding_corgi At some point I can try to recreate everything you are doing. I have an Uno, and some ATtinys
Maybe that's something to try.
 
@angelatlarge Do you have Ubuntu?
 
If it works for me, than we know (?) that it is @coding_corgi's ATtiny?
 
I'm having a bit of a disagreement with a friend, hopefully one of you could clarify?

1 = On
0 = Off

Now does On represent an Open or a Closed circuit?
 
4:27 PM
@coding_corgi no, don't go there
 
@coding_corgi Ubuntu or not doesn't actually matter. If you believe that your computer builds or uploads the sketch differently, than @jippie can send you a compiled sketch to upload.
@coding_corgi And, I do, in fact.
OK, gotta get my once-a-month social life in: brunch with a friend.
 
@GlennNelson open/closed are ambigious terms, probably the very reason why you have the discussion
 
@coding_corgi It would be helpful (for me, anyway) if you edited your question and put in everything you guys did.
 
@angelatlarge Das lot stuff
 
@coding_corgi Well, you want someone to put in the effort to debug it for you right? Methinks you should be willing to put in more effort than, say, @jippie, since it is your problem, ultimately, right?
 
4:31 PM
@angelatlarge Yes,
 
and version numbers :o)
 
@jippie How so?
 
Ok, I am out. Have fun peeps
 
€ avrdude -v

avrdude: Version 5.11.1, compiled on Oct 30 2011 at 10:37:28
things like that
 
I used 4 vs: -vvvv
sudo avrdude -p t85 -c arduino -P /dev/ttyACM0 -b 19200 -vvvv -U flash:w:src.hex
@jippie What is causing avrdude not to write to my ATtiny?
 
4:41 PM
if I knew, I had told you by now.
I'm lost too
 
@jippie What could be the leading causes
programmer to fast or to slow
cpu clock not right?
 
4:58 PM
hmm
what version avrdude do you have @coding_corgi ?
 
@jippie 5.11.1
 
ubuntu version?
 
number
 
i did this
sudo apt-get install avrdude
@jippie 12.04
 
5:10 PM
i think i can reproduce the problem
 
@jippie how?
 
if you remove all -v flags, what is the output you get?
 
@jippie do i need the resistors?
Here is what I get:
Writing | | 0% 0.00s
avrdude: stk500_paged_write(): (a) protocol error, expect=0x14, resp=0x11
avrdude: stk500_cmd(): programmer is out of sync
How can I slow the programmer so everything is in sync
?
Here is the full output:
avrdude: please define PAGEL and BS2 signals in the configuration file for part ATtiny85
avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.04s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e930b
avrdude: NOTE: FLASH memory has been specified, an erase cycle will be performed
To disable this feature, specify the -D option.
avrdude: erasing chip
avrdude: please define PAGEL and BS2 signals in the configuration file for part ATtiny85
@jippie do we define PAGEL and BS2 signals in the configuration file for part ATtiny85
 
5:30 PM
@coding_corgi it always says that
Do you have a heartbeat LED on your programmer?
@coding_corgi Is pin 9 on your arduino attached to anything?
 
@jippie No
@jippie No
@jippie Ok
 
do you have an LED and a 1k resistor?
 
@jippie I have several leds, and a...
10k ohm res.
 
@coding_corgi lower
 
330 ohms?
 
5:38 PM
that'll do
 
3 330ohms?
oh, ok
 
arduino pin 9 --------- 330 ohm resistor ------------- LED ----------- GND
can you make that?
 
Yeah!
@jippie I usually need a resitor from the - pin to GND
 
?
you can swap the LED and the resistor if that is what you mean
 
ok
Ok got it I am not programming and the led is on
ok I programmed it and my led is doing a soft blink
@jippie
 
5:49 PM
@coding_corgi is it doing a soft-on soft-off like blinking?
what color is your led?
 
@jippie yup
@jippie red
 
do you have a green one by any chance? mine is green :-p
avoids confusion
 
i have yellow...
 
@jippie lol
 
no green :(
 
5:51 PM
@coding_corgi if you program a controller what happens to the heartbeat green red LED?
 
umm...
@jippie it's dead!!!
the heart has stopped beating!!!
 
press the reset button on arduino
 
it turned off and then back on
 
is it flashing again?
 
and it's now beating again
 
5:54 PM
the good news is you have the same issue as I have
the bad news is ... I don't know what happened to my programmer !!?!
 
@jippie WHAT?!!!
@jippie ?????
 
@coding_corgi I can program attiny2313 (which I have been doing for the past month or so), but when I fetch a 45, 85 or 861 the programmer locks up
I have programmed 45 in the past successfully
 
@jippie So what's going on?!
Do we need a new sketch?
(ISP sketch)
 
don't know yet. the programmer locks up, that is bad
shouldn't happen
 
@jippie So what happend?
 
5:57 PM
not entirely sure if the underlying problems are the same, but it does appear so.
I've upgraded my pc couple times past few months, so something must have changed
 
@jippie Do we need a new ISP sketch? Do you still have that error?
It seems we are almost there!
 
@coding_corgi ever heard of the 80/20-rule?
 
@jippie No
 
80 percent of the work is done in 20% of the time.
 
So...
 
6:06 PM
that means that the remaining 20% of the work takes 80% of the time
 
@jippie Are you saying the finish line is kind of far away?
 
I'm still busy identifying the actual problem. Once I found it I can search for a solution
 
@jippie I am starting to think it is the ISP sketch...
 
well, it locks up where it shouldn't.
but the ISP sketch is not very well maintained.
 
@jippie There are other sketches made by other people...
 
6:13 PM
by all means, try it
 
@jippie ok, will get back to you, see ya later!
@jippie Thanks for all your help, and the heartbeat suggestion
 
yw
 
@jippie is it working for you?
 
nope
only for attiny2313
 
@jippie Ok, let's find a solution! Se ya later!
 
6:15 PM
enjoy
 
6:54 PM
It's quite in here...
 
7:26 PM
@MLM Yo
 
MLM
@coding_corgi hey
 
@MLM Still studying?
 
MLM
@coding_corgi not atm
 
@MLM Not what?
 
MLM
@coding_corgi at the moment
 
7:28 PM
@MLM Oh, okay, i am bad abbreviations
@MLM Are you programming now?
 
MLM
@coding_corgi no, reinstalling Xilinx and working on a current events presentation
 
@MLM What is Xilinx?
 
MLM
@coding_corgi "fully featured front-to-back FPGA design solution"
 
@coding_corgi there are various ArduinoISP versions, but somehow they all have the same version number in them.
 
@MLM Ok,
@jippie I know, I downloaded version 0022's isp sketch, nothing different
 
7:37 PM
what version Arduino do you have?
 
@jippie 1.0 or UNO?
(UNO R3)
 
the software version on your pc
 
@jippie 12.04
 
when I use the version that came with Arduino 1.0.3, then I can program all devices
look in the arduino IDE
 
@jippie I will just get the isp example for 1.0.3, THANKS!
@jippie So it worked for you?
 
7:41 PM
that works for me, yes
 
@jippie Awesome, let's hope it works for me!
 
@coding_corgi apparently the arduinoISP version is very dependent on the software on the PC (and vice versa). If the software get out of sync, it just stops working.
 
@jippie Ok,
@jippie i can't seem to get the x86 type of the Arduino IDE, so I got the 64 bit type, will there be any difference in the code in the example isp?
 
examples are identical
 
@jippie O\-
Thanks
@jippie Should I include the -vvvv upload command?
 
7:52 PM
a single -v is enough
 
ok
uh oh!
gimme a second...
sudo avrdude -p t85 -c arduino -P /dev/ttyACM0 -b 19200 -v -U flash:w:src.hex

avrdude: Version 5.11.1, compiled on Oct 30 2011 at 10:41:10
Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Joerg Wunsch

System wide configuration file is "/etc/avrdude.conf"
User configuration file is "/home/developer/.avrduderc"
User configuration file does not exist or is not a regular file, skipping

Using Port : /dev/ttyACM0
Using Programmer : arduino
@jippie I got that error
and the heart is still beating!
 
Double check connections and try again
 
Should I use res.?
 
Are MISO and MOSI still correct? Voltages OK?
 
yup
gimme a check
WAIT!
I forgot to put the cap. back in!
O\-
 
7:58 PM
m
the previous version of the ArduinoISP worked better for you, but your results are so very similar to what I saw. It must be an issue with ArduinoISP. When was the last time you applied patches on your PC?
 
@jippie patches?
 
sudo -i
for a in update upgrade dist-upgrade autoremove; do apt-get -y $a; done
patching your operating system of your pc. Get bugs solved free of charge
 
updates?
patches?
 
ok
what is the command
 
8:02 PM
sudo -i
for a in update upgrade dist-upgrade autoremove; do apt-get $a; done
make sure you have backups!
 
@jippie ?
 
¿
 
@jippie backups?
 
...
@coding_corgi what happens when your harddisk crashes?
or your laptop gets stolen?
 
@W5VO did you know that on OSH Park the 4-layer boards have different DRC rules than the 2 layer boards?
 
8:04 PM
@jippie It's the end
 
was looking last night, 5/5 trace/space, 10mil min drill and like 4mil annular ring
 
@coding_corgi :-s
and you never run updates?
 
i run updates
 
they also use a new high-frequency substrate too, apparently
FR408
 
@W5VO WHY WAS I NOT TOLD
 
8:15 PM
@Kortuk probably because you were not here?
 
@jippie I get errors but my heart keeps beating
@jippie is that strange?
 
heartbeat is expected behaviour
 
@jippie I am quite close to @W5VO, it is only a 3 hour drive.
 
@jippie do i need the resistors?
 
Didn't we have a question the other day about sniffing a serial device? I don't get what's difficult about that.
@coding_corgi resistors is for safety. So if you want to be safe, then you use the resistors.
 
8:24 PM
@jippie ok, the heart stopped beating
avrdude: stk500_paged_write(): (a) protocol error, expect=0x14, resp=0x11
avrdude: stk500_cmd(): programmer is out of sync
 
@coding_corgi I really think you should get all your software clean and up to date, but I feel very uncomfortable asking you to run updates if you don't know how to recover from loss of data.
 
also
OSH Park has a new stackup for 4 layer boards
smaller core
which I'm guessing will give some better board-wide capacitance for high frequency stuff
 
8:53 PM
@Kortuk Wasn't sure it was going to happen - it DID snow in May
and I didn't know if I could go.
 
9:09 PM
@TobyLawrence I knew that the space/trace was better for 4 layer
did it improve?
 
9:45 PM
@AshRj Mods are really not supposed to discuss suspension, I can talk in TL about it, but that is it.
@W5VO :)
@W5VO That looks awesome, tell me next time!
 
hhh
I have too poor AC electricity coming from the socket, there must be some problem with the electric cords. I can notice it easily with loudspeakers and displays: there are odd bumps, odd sounds and display changing color when something bad hits the cords.

Any idea how to debug this?
 
@hhh Could you please explain a little more?
 
hhh
You can see what it does with this picture after an "electric overcurrent or something ilke this": http://i.stack.imgur.com/Wlyhp.jpg

It damages the electric equipment particularly sensitive electric equipment such as loudspeakers and HDMI display. This must be a problem with the electric circuits in the house because it hits all sensitive electronics.
 
@hhh Has it happend before?
 
hhh
@coding_corgi yes, many times -- this one was the worst so far.
(it wakes you up when there is a bang in the loudspeakers -- something gets to the circuit that should not be there)
 
10:00 PM
@hhh What devices do you have there?
 
hhh
Asus HDMI display, MBA and loudspeakers -- all except MBA are sensitive to bangs. MBA must have excellent overcurrent protection...
 
@hhh Are you sure you have the right adapters?
 
hhh
Sorry? What do you mean? I have the factory adapters with every device -- this must be a problem with the student house: circuits are bad...
 
@hhh Do you have a surge protector?
 
hhh
@Kortuk no, what is that?
 
10:12 PM
A surge protector (or surge suppressor) is an appliance designed to protect electrical devices from voltage spikes. A surge protector attempts to limit the voltage supplied to an electric device by either blocking or by shorting to ground any unwanted voltages above a safe threshold. This article primarily discusses specifications and components relevant to the type of protector that diverts (shorts) a voltage spike to ground; however, there is some coverage of other methods. The terms surge protection device (SPD), or the obsolescent term transient voltage surge suppressor (TVSS), are ...
 
hhh
I see, I will definitely try it. Thanks @Kortuk!
So it has some diodes inside or?
 
A varistor is an electronic component with a "diode-like" nonlinear current–voltage characteristic. The name is a portmanteau of variable resistor. Varistors are often used to protect circuits against excessive transient voltages by incorporating them into the circuit in such a way that, when triggered, they will shunt the current created by the high voltage away from sensitive components. A varistor is also known as Voltage Dependent Resistor or VDR. A varistor’s function is to conduct significantly increased current when voltage is excessive. Only non-ohmic variable resistors are usu...
Generally for protection you should always have surge protectors on good electronics. The heavier ones are generally more honest.
 
hhh
Does this kind of external surge protector also protect against short-circuits? Like situations where fuse is going to explode/break?
If you get short-circuit, the amount of energy coming depends on the fuse -- if it is a fast fuse, it won't give through so much energy. If it is a slow fuse, you will get more energy (enough to be lethal) out of it until it breaks. Now I don't know how this kind of surge protectors usually work, something like a fuse?
 
11:25 PM
@hhh Dude, I have a couple, and they're pretty steady, go get one, don't know if that will help you out, but, try out...
 
hhh
11:43 PM
@coding_corgi Ja, einen Überspannungsschutz habe ich gekauft :D

Aber los weg, good night!

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0009PTHHS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0DC051GRGB81ZJ1D7CED&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375173&pf_rd_i=301128
 
oh, that reminds me
I got a picture of this old school RF load resistor the other day
found it at an antique shop... it was literally housed in a paint can
 
@hhh Das ist gut, um uns aktualisiert!
 
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