EL&U 2014 Election

MrHen

17:00

@tchrist If it isn't an excuse, what is it?

tchrist

It is an explanation.

MrHen

@Marthaª The flip side is that I don't agree that "closing questions" needs to be inherently unfriendly.

tchrist

@Marthaª Not as a sign that we need to sign up more K-3 teachers?

MrHen

@tchrist Okay, sure. But I still don't buy it as an excuse as in, seeing all of those crappy questions is not an excuse to be unfriendly. Do you agree?

Oop, have to run off. Sorry.

tchrist

More than a quarter of our non-deleted questions have a non-positive vote total. Not very impressive. Add in the deleted ones, and it would be much greater.

Cerberus

17:15

@tchrist Seriously? That is far more than I expected.

And why do we say that is more when referring to a countable noun?

Marthaª

Qui-Gon was right: Your focus determines your reality. You see a bunch of downvoted/closed questions and you conclude that our site is bad because we draw crappy questions. I see the same thing and conclude our site is bad because we're unfriendly.

KitFox

My reality is all delicious spinach, all the time.

Andrew Leach

Mmm. Donuts.

Marthaª

@KitFox Stop that! I'm trying to lose weight, not gain it!!

tchrist

@Cerberus Perfectly. And it is because the demonstrative pronoun “that” does not here have a countable antecedent; its logical antecedent is my entire first sentence.

Andrew Leach

17:31

Spinach. Yuk.

Matt Эллен

spinach doughnuts?

medica

@AndrewLeach Good... afternoon? evening to you, Andrew?

KitFox

I love spinach.

Shog9

@MrHen Agree. Y'all should be closing a lot more stuff for GR or lack of context... But not everything currently being closed as such merits it. More firepower + more accuracy is needed.

Cerberus

@tchrist But I was really thinking of questions as the antecedent.

I don't think you can say your sentence is far more than I expected.

Andrew Leach

17:32

@MattЭллен Mmm. Yuk.

Cerberus

But why didn't I use those are...? It's just not idiomatic, but why?

Andrew Leach

@medica Afternoon/Evening. Something. I'm afraid I'm just about to go incommunicado for three hours or so.

medica

Hi to the others.

tchrist

@Cerberus Then one quarter, which being so one-ish calls out for a one-ly verb.

Shog9

@Marthaª you're both right. You draw crap and you're unfriendly. Occasionally you're even unfriendly toward crap.

KitFox

17:34

If only we could be unfriendly toward just the crap.

medica

@AndrewLeach Nothing to catch up on, I presume? I have no messages.

KitFox

sighs wistfully

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't believe that's it. I have three marbles in my pocket. — Three, really? That is more than I expected. Try to pluralize that...

tchrist

@KitFox Ya think that would stem the tide, O Cnut?

Andrew Leach

@medica KitFox posted some useful stuff about three hours ago (I think it was then).

medica

17:35

@AndrewLeach thanks.

KitFox

@AndrewLeach I was just going to mention.

tchrist

@Cerberus We have questions about this. Quantities like that are treated as singular: five miles is more than I expected to run.

KitFox

If you start at the starred post...

medica

@KitFox oh, thank you.

KitFox

And Shog can ream me out for revealing secrets.

Andrew Leach

17:36

@KitFox Sorry. Your party.

tchrist

mene mene tekel upharsin

medica

@KitFox 4 pm eastern time, is that correct?

KitFox

I believe so.

Matt Эллен

2hr25min to go

tchrist

@MattЭллен Did you count the leap seconds?

KitFox

17:38

imagines Flash Gordon nyrup nyrup timer sound

Mitch

2h24 min to go

medica

@MattЭллен I will be glad when it's over.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist yes but I also carried the one, so it cancels out

tchrist

99 bottles of beer on the wall

Matt Эллен

@medica me too

medica

17:39

@MattЭллен whatever the outcome.

@Mitch thanks!

I'm in a muddle. Just woke up from a nap.

Marthaª

@medica Nap? I'm envious.

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm I'm trying to think of a counter-argument, but you're right, perhaps it comes down to the same phenomenon.

medica

Haha! I was up quite late! :)

Cerberus

In Dutch, both singular and plural are possible.

> Dat is meer dan verwacht.
Dat zijn er meer dan verwacht.

Matt Эллен

In Netherlands many things are possible

Cerberus

17:42

Notice how one can (oddly) say "dat zijn" in Dutch.

tchrist

 And the people bowed and prayed
 To the neon god they made.
 And the sign flashed out its warning,
 In the words that it was forming.
 And the sign said, "The words of the prophets
 Are written on the subway walls
                   And tenement halls."
 And whisper'd
                       in the sounds
                                            of silence.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Except high things. Or dry things. Or non-windy things.

Matt Эллен

tch, look, guys, this isn't the main room. We've got a room for talking about English already :eyeroll:

Cerberus

But we already talk about other stuff there!

tchrist

@MattЭллен My words of prophesy were election-related.

Cerberus

17:52

@phenry I agree that "general reference" shouldn't be expanded beyond a very small set of works. However, I think really basic grammar questions do not belong here; it is far more efficient for someone to pick up a first-grade textbook and study it cover to cover. Otherwise, he won't even understand our explanations, and the book does it better anyway.

medica

@phenry - hi! I haven't see you for a bit.

Cerberus

So if the grammatical phenomenon he is asking about is very basic, but the question is more advanced, or he is wondering about the application of a certain rule from his book or something—basically anything that cannot be answered by showing him the page from the elementary grammar book again—, then I think the question is valid for ELU/ELL.

phenry

@medica - hello

medica

@phenry Remember election chat when it was only you, me, and MrHen?

phenry

@Cerberus - I believe that most truly basic grammar questions are likely to be a better fit for ELL. I have no problem seeing those migrated over there.

medica

17:59

whisk

phenry

We should open a dialogue with ELL to come to a meeting of the minds about what kinds of questions they would welcome, and which ones they'd rather us not send over.

medica

absolutely.

tchrist

@phenry Purdy chur the mod teams have already done this.

medica

apparently, what is done now is a mod will contact their mod and then it's accepted or not.

phenry

@medica - If so, that's incredibly inefficient.

medica

18:01

If I'm understanding from what I saw with a question yesterday:

how do you use the be verb?

@phenry agreed

user61230

It's not required, but it's polite.

medica

There should be an understanding, guidelines for two way flow on sight.

@Emrakul sure, it is polite.

especially with borderline questions

KitFox

@tchrist Yes. We have a shared room for this.

phenry

9

Q: Fifty Migration Candidates from ELU > ELL

Some weeks ago now, Grace asked that we please assemble a list of candidate ELU-to-ELL questions instead of flagging them. I compiled such a list based on people’s nominations, but it is a bit hard to find in this posting. So here is that list of migration nominees again, nearly all of which ar...

user61230

Yeah, nothing stops a mutual understanding. Just clarifying what happens a little.

tchrist

18:03

That’s up to the mods, not to the plebs whose migration instincts may not be honed enough.

phenry

@tchrist, you asked this question a year and a half ago - did anything ever come of it?

medica

but it would be so nice to get them off the front page quickly.

tchrist

@phenry Of course not.

medica

@phenry wow, I never saw that.

phenry

@tchrist - Then that seems like the place where dialogue needs to start.

tchrist

18:03

@phenry Perhaps ELL is a four-letter word in the stratozone.

medica

@phenry (no wonder I never saw that!)

user61230

It's worth noting that most of the questions in that list are past the migration deadline, and couldn't have been migrated anyway.

tchrist

I cannot say why nothing was done. I have no textual evidence.

user61230

*Were past the deadline when the question was asked.

phenry

@Emrakul - True, but it remains a good, representative list of the kinds of questions that could be migrated.

tchrist

18:05

@Emrakul I think that’s largely immaterial to the matter at hand, which was to try to distill some guidelines.

phenry

@tchrist - I understand your frustration. You did your due diligence. The ball was dropped elsewhere.

It needs to be picked back up.

KitFox

I'm standing right here.

medica

hehe

phenry

ahem... :)

@KitFox - Is there anything we can do on our end to get that conversation started again?

tchrist

@KitFox I think this is probably a ♦ ♦ or even a ♦ ♦ ♦ issue, not just a ♦ one.

KitFox

18:07

@phenry We do talk about it from time to time, but at this point, most of the questions that get flagged are not appropriate for migration.

As far as migrating old questions, that isn't done and won't be done.

medica

@KitFox then are they just close voted?

tchrist

@KitFox Do you hunt down the ones closed with a “better on ELL” custom reason, even without a flag?

phenry

I see questions go by all the time that I believe would clearly benefit their askers better if they went to ELL.

KitFox

We could possibly post a Meta question with some examples of questions that were successfully migrated, to help with guiding the community with their flagging.

@tchrist No.

medica

that would be great.

KitFox

18:08

@medica The flag is dismissed.

medica

so it's closed as OT?

And stays there?

KitFox

Part of the problem is that if it's a decent question, people don't think of migrating it.

@medica That's independent of flagging for migration.

tchrist

@KitFox Perhaps people feel it is “safer” to cast a close vote than to risk a flag denied.

KitFox

Users generally only flag problematic questions, which is, well, problematic.

@tchrist Could be.

But also the reason that I am strongly against an open pipeline to ELL.

Alraxite

What happens if your flag is denied?

KitFox

18:10

@Alraxite Nothing.

phenry

@KitFox - As moderators, how much latitude will we have to unilaterally migrate a question to ELL if (trying to word the question very carefully here) we believe it would provide greater benefit to the asker than allowing it to remain here?

Alraxite

Like, does it affect your helpful flag count or something?

medica

@KitFox does it not count as an unhelpful flag?

KitFox

@phenry Plenty.

@medica It's declined, but I don't think custom flags (which those must be) are counted like that.

MrHen

@tchrist Sorry for running off. For the record, I completely agree with your analysis and points. The only reason I was pushing back a little is because I think we can continue to drive higher quality questions on ELU and we can work on user friendliness. The debate will always revolve around which should be sacrificed first but I don't want to overly focus on one side of this. I think the problem needs to be addressed from both angles.

phenry

18:12

@KitFox - Well, that's good.

medica

ah

KitFox

I could be wrong.

tchrist

@MrHen k thx

Alraxite

Do you get reprimanded by moderators if many of your flags are unhelpful?

tchrist

@KitFox Flag-weight goes down. Like anybody cares.

Alraxite

18:13

Or you've case many unhelpful ones in a short period?

KitFox

You can be reprimanded about it, but I don't think we've ever had anyone who we needed to talk to about that.

Not that you should get any ideas.

Alraxite

Mmm.

Matt Эллен

puts ideas back

phenry

I wonder if it's feasible to make certain close options, like migration options, only available to people above a certain rep level.

medica

@phenry that's an interesting idea

KitFox

18:15

It might be, but I'd want to see an increase in the number of correctly flagged-for-migration-to-ELL questions before I even entertain that thought.

MrHen

@phenry I wonder if we can stick them behind a tutorial style "unlock" quiz...

KitFox

They do audits. Bet you could audit for it.

tchrist

@KitFox hm

Matt Эллен

@KitFox what makes a question correct for ELL? I thought I knew, but many of the questions I flag stay here

user61230

@Alraxite If you have too many declined flags, your flagging privilege can be temporarily revoked.

user61230

18:17

You'll also see notices about flags that have been declined in the flag dialog box.

tchrist

I don't think ELU’s Review Queues get audits. I mean, I vanquished like 5 in 40 minutes on SO yet have never seen any audit challenges on ELU.

Alraxite

@Emrakul Okay. I see.

KitFox

We might not have audits here. It depends on the volume and speed of reviews.

user61230

@Alraxite Here's a reference as to when and why this might happen.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Well, good question. Of the ones of yours that I've declined, I think they are generally probably good topically, but poorly composed. I tend to be cautious about migrating.

Alraxite

18:20

@Emrakul Right, thanks.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox OK, thanks. That makes sense.

KitFox

@Emrakul But custom flags don't count the same way, do they?

user61230

@KitFox You can be blocked from flagging with a custom reason if over 25% of your flags recently have been declined, but I'm not seeing an indication that custom flags are counted toward that penalty.

user61230

Don't know for certain on that one, though.

KitFox

I seem to recall some incident where ... I shouldn't give details.

Suffice to say, I think that's where I got the notion from.

Hello, by the way.

user61230

18:24

Hello!

KitFox

Are you going to frequent our site now? Make sure we don't start migrating all our SWRs to you?

single-word-request

Sorry, forgot you wouldn't know the lingo.

Seth

Migrating all of your SWRs to his site would be.. puzzling.

And that, is my bad pun for the day.

user61230

Pfffff, @Seth.

user61230

Maybe, though. Iunno! I'll watch and see where I can help out.

Mitch

@Emrakul How is ELL doing? do you think it would be helpful to ELL people if it were merged back into ELU?

user61230

18:27

Oh, I can't really say. I'm not an active ELL or ELU (yet) user. Sorry for the confusion!

Mitch

Oh sorry I thought you were a mod at ELL, because of tenuous implications from three sentences ago.

KitFox

No, the Puzzling thing.

tchrist

@KitFox I say we round-robin our SWRs to some eleven different SE sites. (11 is good because it is a prime that meets the 4N−1 best-hashing criterion.)

KitFox

22 hours ago, by KitFox

@Shog9 Oh. My. God. New SWR target for migration.

@tchrist Yeah, OK. Sounds good to me. I'm going home so I can be here for the election returns.

See you on the flip.

Matt Эллен

CU

user61230

18:37

Ahaha that's wonderful, @KitFox.

user61230

Definitely very on-topic :P (Actually, though)

Matt Эллен

19:01

one. more. hour.

phenry

I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the group and ourselves, and I hope we've passed the audition.

Matt Эллен

19:30

It's been an experience, folks! Don't let the power go to your heads :D

Shog9

PSA: election result announcements may be delayed if the tooling chokes on @Matt's name. Again.

4

Matt Эллен

:blushes:

Shog9

grumble grumble Matt ÐÐ»Ð»ÐµÐ½ grumble

Matt Эллен

something something Joel Spolsky rant on unicode something

Seth

lol

medica

19:49

@phenry just getting back on. Are we almost there?

phenry

@medica - 10 minutes.

medica

excellent!

It's been a joy getting to toss ideas around with you.

phenry

Thing I learned today: If you click the Achievements button (the bar graph thing), it shows you the current server time in UTC.

medica

I too want to congratulate all the candidates.

Matt Эллен

@phenry Where's that?

Mari-Lou A

19:52

Good luck everybody :)

medica

@MattЭллен it's been a very pleasant atmosphere, surprisingly mud-free.

@Mari-LouA thank you!

phenry

@MattЭллен - On the Stack Exchange bar at the top of the screen on the normal site.

Matt Эллен

@medica I want everyone to get along :)

@phenry cool, thanks.

medica

I had hoped we could emulate Jefferson and Adams with real mud slinging, but alas, it was not to be. :)

►

Matt Эллен

@medica yeah. luckily we're not running for President!

medica

19:57

I love that campaign!

Makes today look positively civilized!

phenry

Well, good luck everyone.

medica

yes, good luck.

where will it be announced?

Shog9

one minute until losers are announced

medica

Will it come here?

@Shog9 :D the majority.

Shog9

actually, I'm going to do Unix first. Because, Matt. Y'all can run the results yourselves if you're curious

Matt Эллен

19:59

I'm so special.

A spanner in the works of democracy

medica

@Shog9 so where, exactly, do we go for the big reveal? (you are!)

tchrist

@Shog9 Unix are easy: they never put up much of a spat.

Alraxite

Time's up.

medica

"Prendre un p'tit coup, c'est agréable,
Prendre un p'tit coup, c'est doux."

My glass is up to the winners and the runners up.

Shog9

0

Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

English Language & Usage's 3rd moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: They'll be joining the existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ropes! For d...

discussion featured election

phenry

20:02

congratulations winners!

Mitch

@MattЭллен The wrong pants... of democracy.

medica

Congrats!!!

phenry

Now I get my life back.

Doorknob

claps

Matt Эллен

thanks @Shog9

Doorknob

20:03

Yaaaaay!

medica

@phenry amen to that!

KitFox

slides into her seat

medica

@MattЭллен good job!

Matt Эллен

that was unexpected

medica

nah...

Matt Эллен

20:03

thanks to everyone for participating

KitFox

Congratulations!

medica

whew

MrHen

opavote.org/results/6472855084597248/0

medica

@phenry wow, good job!

Matt Эллен

congratulations to @AndrewLeach and @YoichiOishi

KitFox

20:05

Wow.

Andrew Leach

Thanks to all. I hope I'm up to the responsibility.

medica

@AndrewLeach you will be great!

phenry

@medica - Best possible result for me: enough support to prove that my issues matter to a lot of people, but not enough support that I actually have to be a moderator.

medica

@phenry I agree with the first part.

I wish you had it, though.

phenry

@medica - likewise.

medica

20:07

But Congratulations to all the winners.

Matt Эллен

@MrHen truly a close run thing

MrHen

@MattЭллен Yep.

Andrew Leach

Back to my choir rehearsal...

medica

@MrHen I thought you would be there

MrHen

I landed about where I expected. I'm a little surprised by a few of the results, though.

medica

20:08

@MrHen well, it does have an interesting twist to it.

MrHen

@medica I was in a distant fifth. :)

Marthaª

@MrHen I wanted you to be there. You were my "OK, first choice is dead easy" choice.

medica

@MrHen 6th? me?

MrHen

@medica Yup. You were the only one eliminated in Round 4.

medica

One big, biig surprise to me.

This is all good. The users have spoken.

MrHen

20:10

@Marthaª It's fine. It means I get to focus on more interesting things on ELU anyway. I don't have a big problem letting our "winners" slog through the flag queues. ;)

medica

and the rest of us (the majority) are free once again.

terdon

Congratulations to all those who are now blue.

Mahnax

Huh, almost dead last.

KitFox

@terdon And congrats to you, too!

medica

@Mahnax not quite!

Mahnax

20:11

Congrats Matt, Andrew, and Yoichi!

Matt Эллен

Thanks!

medica

Very exciting.

Alraxite

Congratulations.

Cerberus

@MrHen I expected you and Mahnax to win, actually.

Alraxite

@terdon Congrats!

MrHen

20:11

@Cerberus Mahnax surprised me. I thought they'd get more votes.

Cerberus

@phenry Haha wise!

@MrHen I dodm too.

MrHen

@Cerberus :P

Mahnax

@MrHen Well, to be fair, I have low reputation, few helpful flags, and minimal meta participation, which are the main stats that people see on the election page.

medica

@Mahnax Next time, you'll win.

@Mahnax you and @phenry

Mahnax

@medica I was initially hesitant to run this time, and these results have sealed the deal—I think I'm best suited to work here at the level I currently do. I think our new mods will do an excellent job.

medica

20:15

yes!
Alors, Je prend un p'tit coup, c'est agréable,
Prendre un p'tit coup, c'est doux.

My parents sang that song when I was little

phenry

@medica - It's very unlikely that I'll run again... especially if we see some of the changes I've been hoping for, as I am optimistic will happen.

medica

@phenry you would have been a real asset, and the support was there, at least, for change. So I hope that will be so.

I doubt I will either.

I'm looking forward to a rest. :)

Cerberus

@Mahnax You'll win next time. Besides, who cares anyway? It's just imaginary icons on a light box!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Once was enough ;) Anyway, I have to go study.

phenry

@medica - The whole election ended up being about what we can do to be more friendly to newcomers. So in that sense I feel like I won.

Mahnax

20:18

Bye-bye everyone, and once again—congratulations. You'll do great, I'm sure.

medica

I hope.

Cerberus

OK. That your studies may be fruitful!

medica

Bye!

phenry

@medica - Don't say that too soon... you would be a good moderator.

medica

Well, I think the numbers say something important.

phenry

20:19

I am dying to pull this election file into Excel and start playing with it.

MrHen

@medica I think they say there was a large overlap between philosophies. That's how STV works. :)

medica

:)

Not me, man.

MrHen

@phenry Same here :D

user116848

Can anyone come here chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/15120/… Its very crowded here I want to ask some grammar questions?

user116848

If you want to

medica

20:21

@Arrowfar I am exhausted. No grammar for me today!

user116848

:(

user116848

its okay

user116848

Mr Hen?

medica

My family is going out tonight to celebrate my placing in the majority!

MrHen

So, I was eliminated in Round 5 with ~80 votes. They were scattered to: Yoichi (~20 votes), Andrew (~19 votes), Matt (~16 votes) and Phenry (~12 votes)

user116848

20:22

So you won?

user116848

:)

medica

Good day, everyone. It was an important race.

MrHen

@Arrowfar Sorry, I'm still playing with the election numbers. (No, I didn't win.)

medica

@MrHen I really wish you had won.

Cheers. everyone!

Matt Эллен

Cheers, @medica

MrHen

20:23

@medica Thanks! But it's really fine. :)

medica

you are all good men.

Mitch

@medica I've noticed that some are women.

... and good, too

medica

:)

user116848

@medica Where is the link to the results? I can't see

MrHen

@Arrowfar opavote.org/results/6472855084597248/0

medica

20:26

opavote.org/results/6472855084597248/0

MrHen

We had 623 voters! Not bad!

medica

oops, sorry.

user116848

@medica I thought you won?

MrHen

@Arrowfar No. The winners were @AndrewLeach, @YoichiOishi, @MattЭллен

user116848

@MattЭллен Congratulations Matty :D

Matt Эллен

20:29

thanks!

user116848

Yeah I just saw

Mari-Lou A

Many many congratulations to all the winners, and a special mention to our most esteemed senior user @Yoichi Oishi

user116848

@AndrewLeach, @YoichiOishi, @MattЭллен Good work guys. Congratulations :D

Josh61

20:41

Congratulations to the three winners!!!! and thanks to all candidates....I think it has been a nice and fair race.

Matt Эллен

I'd like to think so

I hope I help the site thrive.

Josh61

Is Yoichisan sleeping now? Someone should wake him up!!

@Matt I am sure you will.

oerkelens

21:00

congrats guys!

Mitch

@Josh61 If we all ping him, and he has the sound on...

Josh61

6:15 AM in Tokyo, not that early!!

KitFox

21:27

OK, I'm packing this room up so folks don't get confused.

For those of you reading the transcript, please exit to the main chat when you are finished (if you so choose).

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...

3

2

Feeds

KitFox has frozen this room.

Cerberus

I'm so confused!

3

KitFox

I should have made one of the newbies do it.

Seth

22:15

I hope everyone is satisfied with the election results, otherwise now would be the time to speak up. cough ;P

Doorknob

23:04

Come on, why isn't anyone talking? :P

KitFox

23:53

snerkle You guys iz sooo funneh.

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Transcript for