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2:00 PM
I'm pretty sure it's a mod privilege.
 
I'm not that interested in her
 
Well, anyway, I know you asked the candidates and not me.
But they can't really answer because of the reason I can't really answer you.
Which is that all of the information that lead to her suspension is not revealed publicly unless she wants it to be.
 
It's getting hot, (italy) and I have stuff to do. I'm not working until Monday, so....I'll be back muhahaha etc. Bye, and thank you to all who have been so patient with me. Thank you very much. Ciao
 
Ciao
 
2:03 PM
Bye.
Conference call. Off for a bit.
 
CU2
 
You guys are so funneh.
 
Jinx
ok, you win
 
2:04 PM
So do any of the candidates have questions about being a mod?
 
:D
how scary are the first few weeks?
 
(good one)
 
Unbelievably.
 
what did you most worry about doing?
 
Suspending people.
 
2:05 PM
Do we receive training?
 
No.
We have a local mod room, and there is the Teacher's Lounge.
 
ok, good.
 
You get a bunch of links with your moderator agreement.
 
getting better...
 
Mostly it's sensible stuff you can figure out on your own.
 
2:07 PM
what if we (I) am not programmer fluent? I have a long lag time before I pick up tricks.
 
Then you will be forever shamed.
 
(maybe I shouldn't have phrased that last part like that!)
 
I'm just kidding. It's not rocket science. The tools that you must use are simple.
 
whew
 
The optional tools are more complicated, but some people know how they work and can help.
And there's no requirement for you to do the investigations, for instance.
If you're not comfortable doing it, you can ask another mod.
 
2:10 PM
If I can do routine (boring) stuff, will that be helpful/free up other mods to do the more complicated tasks?
Not that I'm not willing to learn; I am.
 
Yes.
What I would most like is someone to do suspensions.
They do get so very tedious, and of course you can't cookie-cutter it.
 
Do you decide alone or is it a group decision?
 
Well, you can, but inevitably the response is semi-literate vitriol.
@medica It's a little bit of both. I can't really elaborate.
 
ok
 
We have some leeway on suspensions, but it's not absolute.
 
2:13 PM
If it's no worse than the drunks that get hauled into the ER on a Saturday night, vitriol shouldn't be too bad.
 
I can't imagine it's worse than that.
Except for feeling like a failure when you're really trying to help.
 
docs lose patients, too. Feeling like a failure is de rigeur
 
Most of the work is rote, then you'll be surprised once in a while when someone posts a Meta question calling you out on the carpet about deleting a comment or a non-answer or something that you have done so many times that you didn't even think about it.
And you can defend your actions or throw a colleague under the bus or pretend it's some kind of behind-the-scenes magic.
It's fun.
 
It's a good way to periodically review your reasoning.
And it adds a bit of spice.
Well, thing is, there isn't really any way for you to know whether we are doing a great job.
And sometimes we forget that the things that are obvious to us are not obvious to you.
You just can't see them.
 
2:19 PM
That's fair to say. And it's true. But we do get glimpses, and I have been impressed.
 
So only the mods know when someone has been warned before, and when someone has flipped us off in their response to a suspension, etc.
Or insulted in a comment that was quickly deleted.
 
Why do you take it personally, may I ask?
 
So it makes sense to question it, just there's not much to say except "trust me" and who is ever re-assured by that.
@medica I don't take it personally. I just get annoyed by it.
Especially when I haven't had enough coffee.
 
That is definitely preferrable.
 
Speaking of...brb
Looks like I'm having tea.
 
2:24 PM
run out or none made?
 
both
And I hate to brew a pot for just me.
So is there interesting stuff to review in this transcript?
breath goes out of Kit's body
 
about how many hours a week do you put in here, and do you think 3 mods will affect that significantly enough?
 
I just had a horrible feeling.
 
what?
 
The user community probably thinks of me as the EL&U moderator.
 
2:27 PM
An EL&U moderator... yes. but not just you.
Is that what you mean?
Or are you saying that you want to be thought of as just another user?
 
As in, "Who are the EL&U mods?" "Well, there's Kit Fox. And Reg. And, um, waiwai."
It's hard to explain.
 
I'm not so sure. Reg keeps a pretty high profile on posts and comments, and waiwai in emails
nohat on meta
 
Well, that's a relief.
I'm in the habit of thinking of myself as a sidekick.
 
no.
simchona is invisible.
That probably doesn't help.
 
I put in about an hour a day working the flag queue. I spend much more than that in chat.
I did more when I started.
But it wears on you after a while.
 
2:36 PM
"If you believe you should have access to this room" of course I should! Don't you know who I am?
 
What happened to simchona?
 
@Alraxite Nothing.
 
@Alraxite how do you mean?
 
Well. She (I presume they are a she) is quite inactive.
By which I mean, completely inactive.
 
We can't tell what's going on behind the scenes
 
2:37 PM
As far as I can tell.
 
Maybe education became more pressing. She's at college I believe
 
Right.
 
because it's behind the scenes.
 
that too
 
:16164579 My opinion is that he is the product of a controlling, self-obsessed parent. He never learned to form attachments to other people or see them as separate from himself. He is fundamentally self-defeating and self-loathing, and if I could help him, I would.
 
2:38 PM
@medica simchona handles a lot of deletions.
Oh, I'm back.
 
wow. you're a better woman than I m.
 
It's my job to see things that other people don't.
 
I thought something happened in the past.
 
But you know him better than I do, so there's that
 
I wish you guys had meta posts about it.
Would have made it easier. Nvm.
 
2:40 PM
About what?
Various dramas?
 
Dunno. I thought there was something.
Yeah.
 
There's always something.
 
It seems it's always in chat.
 
I could answer if you had specific questions.
 
It's none of our buisness, really.
 
2:41 PM
I mean, MSE has great meta posts of what happened in the past.
It's really disappointing.
Oh well.
 
Really?
Well, I'm sure there is stuff there if you look.
 
Probably.
 
Things are hard enough to find around here!
 
MSE has great records of past disputes.
 
Where?
I've never looked.
 
2:44 PM
There are too many. And one meta post links to another which links to another.
You can easily find them I believe.
 
I have a hard time figuring out moderator tools! There are so few obvious explanations. I do find them eventually. But I wish there was a huge, detailed post explaining the ins and outs.
 
Just choose any touchy subject on there. Like closing PSQ questions, etc.
You'll get to them via links.
 
I can't track down old disputes.
PSQ?
 
Problem Statement Question.
No effort/research
 
ah. thanks.
 
2:47 PM
@MrHen I was answering questions about moderating, if you have any.
 
well, I'm off now. This was the most excitement in here since it opened.
Thanks, and thanks, Kit, for sticking around.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:10 PM
@Mari-LouA I think that the downvote feature only works properly when there is no necessary explanation requirement. I've posted more detailed thoughts on this on Meta. If people feel they are being unjustly targeted for downvoting then they should raise the issue with the mods.
@Mari-LouA That being said, the negative feeling that new users associate with downvotes is real and as a community we should be mindful of that. Having some sort of explanation/training is a good thing.
@Mari-LouA I think the close reasons and explanations need to be tweaked a bit to make it clearer for new users to understand (a) why their question was closed and (b) how to improve their question to help get it reopened. Likewise, I'm sure the documentation on how to ask a good question could be updated to give regular users an easier way to teach new users how to fit in at ELU.
@Mari-LouA As for edits, I think that any post that is written in poor English should be fixed (within reason). The primary concern regarding edits should be to make the question both interesting and answerable within the format of how StackExchange works.
@Mari-LouA I think chat is callous, certainly, and I also think that we could do a much better job responding to new users. Posts from new users tend to not fit quite right with the site but it isn't really their fault. This gives us two problems: How to "fix" the posts so they fit better and how to train new users so they can post better questions in the future.
Sadly, this is a difficult balance that requires a lot of patience and time and it is an almost utterly thankless job. I sympathize with regulars who feel that the endless stream of new users is overtaking the site. I don't necessarily agree, but I get why they are disturbed.
@MattЭллен Technically, you can polish a turd...
@YoichiOishi Do you think downvotes should even be allowed on the site? If so, when would a downvote be appropriate?
@Mari-LouA For what it's worth, this kind of question used to be really popular on ELU and the GR close vote reason was included to explicitly address them. "Closing" in this case is trying to lock the question down until the user can provide more information. The question can easily be reopened once the user responds.
@Mari-LouA Don't forget that the listed close reason is just the most common close reason. Some of those could have been voting to close for other reasons.
@Mari-LouA I've already posted a few comments on that thread. I don't know anything about the particulars and don't feel it is appropriate for me to ask about them.
@Mari-LouA Honestly, I don't have a problem with suspensions evoking feelings. The point of a suspension is to improve the site by forcing a particular user to take a break. A suspension should really only take place after it is clear that the user in question isn't going to respond to other means.
@Mari-LouA So I just dropped a ton of replies to you but if it got confusing tracking all of those back to your original questions, just ask me again. I know you and I have bumped heads before but I'm still willing to answer questions if you have them.
@KitFox You are certainly the most visible. What with the recent slamming of the "silent mods" I'm not sure most of the community even realizes what the mods do.
@KitFox Nah, I feel like I know what I signed up for. I don't mind doing heavy lifting and don't take things personally. Most of the candidate questions are focusing on policy and opinion which is fine but not directly related to mod work as far as I can tell. I think they are just trying to feel out how people think of the site.
I do find it amusing how none of the candidates are running under the platform of, "I have a ton of free time and want to use it to do the junk work that only moderators can do."
It isn't as sexy... but you'd probably get all of the current mod team's votes. :)
 
4:58 PM
@MrHen And that is also why "closed" was changed to "on hold".
@MrHen True that.
It's funny to read.
It's similar to what I think of presidential bids, etc. The candidates talk a lot about things that they really have little to no control over, but of course they won't know that until they try, which they can't do unless they get elected.
The best thing we can do is set policy, and we can't even do that without community endorsement.
So there's pretty much just clean up work.
Anyone who has a lot of patience and no sense of smell would do.
 
I think you guys might be interested in this quiz; gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish
 
You should post that in the main chat.

 English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...
 
Ohh sorry, I thought I was in main chat :/
 
It's OK. The election is confusing many people.
 
5:18 PM
@KitFox Yeah. I keep using "close" because I think it would be confusing if I switched terminology part way through the election. :)
 
I heard what you meant.
 
@yoichioishi and @fracturedretina - don't forget to answer the questions here: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/4857/…
 
@KitFox Yep. But I'm always willing to chat about ELU. One good thing from all the discussion is that gives me a bunch of information on what various opinions exist. Like I said before, most of the ideas I've been talking about are doable even if people elect someone else.
So I don't really care too much if I get elected. The major benefit would just be the ability to help take the load off of the current mod team.
 
Hi @Shog.
@MrHen makes note to vote for MrHen for a third time
 
'mornin
 
5:23 PM
@KitFox I didn't even star that. :/
I still find the voting patterns on the questionnaire really entertaining.
 
@Shog9 You took some abuse this morning.
I was going to defend you, but. You know. Coffee.
 
@KitFox Oh? Publically? I, uh, need to do some research on being a mod...
 
Plus I didn't see it until about ten minutes ago.
@MrHen You are funneh.
 
Hm, I just realized that I could offer some of my Skeptics.SE chat logs as evidence I have thick skin...
... but that may backfire depending on whether people agree with the average Skeptics.SE chatter.
 
Mod abuse is upsetting, but the mods are so warm and friendly, and they give you special treatment the first time it happens.
Makes you feel like you've joined the club.
 
5:28 PM
@KitFox really? I was asleep I guess. Best time for it, if you ask me.
 
in English Language & Usage, Jun 27 '11 at 19:09, by JSBangs
Is copper really better than aluminum better for protecting my brain from harmful mind-control rays?
@Shog9 Absolutely.
 
@Shog9 Seems right.
 
Here, this is what I meant.
 
5:52 PM
@KitFox Oh, that's what she meant by "shogun"?
Autocorrect must have hit.
I was confused by that at the time I read it.
 
No, she's being clever.
 
6:12 PM
@KitFox Ah. I've noticed that a lot of people just call me Mr. Hen instead of tagging me. It make it hard to search out gossip. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
8:18 PM
@MrHen On the contrary, I stood simply because I'm in Europe and have bemoaned the lack of early-morning European moderation. I'm on a train for a couple of hours and can do that.
@MrHen I have no problem dealing with flags (I've raised quite a few).
@KitFox I think Asperger's might help. I have no idea whether other people will understand that, of course :-)
 
9:13 PM
@medica What's your favorite word and why?
@MrHen What's your favorite word and why?
 
"Fuck" because I gives you pleasure, settle down you temper, It maintains your mood and it helps you when you run out of words.
This word can be used as a "noun" "What the fuck was that". Can you used as an "adjective" "she is a good fuck", as an adverb: "she got a fucking beautiful face"... I guess you can use this anywhere you want.
WTF!
 
9:35 PM
@Kabir101 I think your adjective is a noun.
 
lol...
Yeah
 
sorry, this is rather off topic for this room
 
Sorry for that too
I wouldn't have initiated it at the first place.
 
don't worry about it.
 
@AndrewLeach: such as fucker (adjective)
Sure @MattЭллен
 
9:39 PM
@Kabir101 That's an agent noun, surely.
 
You got me there @AndrewLeach
Check this out
I am having a fucking good time.
Trun off the fucking music. :)
all adjectives ;)
 
WTF!!!!!
 
Sorry for that @F.E., it was a question.
@StoneyB Hi, how are you today?
 
10:09 PM
I’m specially concerned about ‘Close-vote” under the excuse of “off-topic”. Every time I see the word, “off topic,” I feel like seeing Chinese Communist party’s recent proclamation,“七不讲”- 7 Don’t Speak, which prohibits to talk about 1.Universal value, 2.Freedom of press report, 3.Citizen’s society, 4.Citizen’s rights, 5. Historical Mistakes of Chinese Communist Party, 6. Existence of Special, Privileged class, 7.Freedom of Judicial system, though they are clever enough not to include “off-topic” as the 8th “Don’t talk about.”
 
10:20 PM
@MrHen Thanks for your clear, succinct answers. Yes, we have "bumped heads" in the past, I hope you won't hold it against me when you become (if) a mod :P
And... there's not much activity is there?
I've just been "invited" in a room with a total stranger. Is that normal for you lot? :)
 
@Mari-LouA it's not unusual. I tend to wait until they say something before joining the room; half the time it's nonsense or worse.
 
Thanks for the tip
@YoichiOishi if I may borrow Mitch's question. What is your favourite English word, and why?
ahh, gone... oh dear
 
Hi Mari.
What would that word be?
 
I'm not running
 
I cant connect with "I'm not running'.
 
10:32 PM
@Kabir101 This is the Election chat-room, for questions to the candidates in the election for moderator. Candidates' names appear in italics in the left margin.
 
hello @Mari-LouA
you SHOULD be running!
 
you're like a week late there, @phen
 
@phenry No way
 
yep
can't blame you @Mari-LouA
 
@Mitch I don't have a strict favorite but I'm partial to words like "picnicked" because that extra added "k" is awesome.
 
10:40 PM
Besides my fragile ego would be smashed in smithereens to see how many voted against me. I'm not cut out for this role. You have to be damn good, smart, quick, and have a thick skin.
With people I know, it's fine, but with strangers...?
 
@Mitch - my favorite English word is synecdoche, because it's a figure of speech for a wonderfully common occurrence that we take completely for granted; it's also like a mental palindrome in that it goes one way but works the same the opposite way. Finally, it's a funny sounding word that's a little hard to say, and reminds me of Schenectady, New york.
Philip Seymore Hoffman one of my favorite actors) starred in a movie by one of my favorite screenwriters (Charlie Kaufman) by the name of Synecdoche, New York. So that's my favorite. I bet you're dying to know what my second favorite word is, right? :-)
 
@Mari-LouA - It's not that hard to get used to people hating you. Trust me.
 
LOL (and I hate that word)
 
@Mari-LouA wow, you've really braved turbulent waters today. Two different chats at the same time. You're more courageous than I am for sure.
 
what's my favorite word?
 
10:43 PM
@Mari-LouA No, I absolutely will not hold it against you. :) I prefer to have people with opinions different than my own because it makes it a lot easier to a more accurate perspective on issues. (That's one reason why I like arguing with Cerberus. Cerb and I disagree about a lot of things but I always learn something when we go at it.)
 
would you ask a mother to choose between her children?
 
@phenry I don't hate you.
@phenry Is this Sophie's Choice???
 
@medica - thank you. I don't hate you either!
 
@phenry (oh, sorry, you're choosing a word.)
 
We love you henry and your avatar
 
10:44 PM
@Mari-LouA Oh, I'm really eager to see the vote counts. I don't like politics much but I can't help but love the data that results from an election.
 
mmm... data, delicious data...
 
I love data. :)
 
@MrHen I feel doomed... like a little chick under the raised foot of a big giant. I'm sure I'm going to lose this election.
 
@medica - you're worried you're going to lose, I'm worried I'm going to win.
 
@MrHen You, on the other hand, I think, are going to win.
 
10:46 PM
Sorry @phenry but why did you run? I mean I get this slight impression you don't want to "win" . Call me mad
 
@medica I don't feel doomed because I don't really feel like not getting elected is "losing". It just means the community wants a different flavor.
 
@phenry a strange dilemma.
 
@phenry So here's an interesting question for you, phenry. You've stated that you don't want to run. So let's say you win and you get your reforms. What's next? Will you step down?
 
@medica The great thing about this election is, no matter who wins the majority of you will be losers.
 
@MrHen yes, but it's kind of a vulnerable place to put oneself. But I'm pretty resigned.
@Shog9 I just said that to someone! I will be in the majority! :D
 
10:48 PM
@medica Really? I wouldn't have considered myself one of the favorites. If I win I suspect it will be due to getting the tiebreaker/cascade votes.
 
@Mari-LouA - no, I don't want the job. I felt I had to run because I think there are some changes that need to be made, and I needed to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak.
 
@MrHen No, If I'm intuiting correctly, you're definitely going to be one of the three.
 
But by saying that aren't you discouraging voters?
 
Me?
 
@MrHen - very good question. I don't believe it would be right to leave the community down a moderator just because I got my candy.
 
10:49 PM
I mean if you want to fight the cause, go for it by all means
 
@medica Yes, but I personally think that is a good vulnerability. It's an out-of-comfort-zone vulnerability. It's good for you. :)
 
worth remembering, it ain't what gets said now that matters, it's what gets done after.
 
If people are going to place their trust in me, I'm going to do the job they elected me to do.
that includes both pushing for reform and doing the actual, y'know, job.
 
@MrHen yes. I tell my kids that as well. If you're not out of your comfort zone once in a while, you're playing it too safe.
 
besides, I have to stay a moderator for at least a year or I won't get the badge, right?
 
10:50 PM
@medica Well, thanks for the confidence. :)
 
:)
 
@Shog9 Yes, naturally. :)
 
@Mari-LouA - is this addressed to me?
 
@MrHen :) well placed, I assure you.
 
@phenry Haha, best platform ever. The "I LOVE BADGES!" platform.
 
10:51 PM
@phenry yes, it was
 
@Mari-LouA Don't downplay the value of rhetoric. :)
 
@dingo_dan - how nice it is to see you. I want to tell you that I enjoy your meta posts. You seem able to see both sides. I like that.
 
@Mari-LouA - well, I did begin my campaign with the words "I don't actually want this job," so anyone who doesn't want to vote for me on that account will presumably have ruled me out a long time ago,
 
@phenry frankly I'd love to see you win. I'd love for a passionate reformer to tackle the job.
 
but every time I say that I try to assure people that yes, I do take the responsibility seriously, or at least as seriously as my job and family responsibilities will allow.
 
10:54 PM
Does @RyeɃreḁd ever participate? he's someone with strong opnions. Has he visited chat?
 
@phenry My feeling, though, is that one mod can't make a real change in this large community.
 
@MrHen - yeah, the fact that I will never have the beta badge for this site burns me up inside.
 
@Mari-LouA I've never seen him there. But I'm not there too much myself.
 
@medica I mean in the election room
this is the election room, right?!
 
@Mari-LouA I haven't seen him yet.
@Mari-LouA yes.
 
10:56 PM
That's a pity
maybe meta would be a more appropriate arena
 
@medica - I believe that my victory will indicate the existence of a mandate for change that will be hard to ignore. At the very least, I hope to be able to propose some small commonsense reforms, like clarifying and narrowing the GR close reason.
 
why can't the candidates respond to all of the questions, for example?
 
@Shog9 - as long as I'm handing out compliments like candy, I may as well tell you that I appreciate the interest you've taken in this little room.
 
There weren't that many
 
@phenry amen to that.
 
10:57 PM
@Shog9 has expressed interest in the GR thing, and he's practically a demigod around SE
 
@medica My feeling is that ELU inherently rejects rapid change. One moderator can absolutely make a difference but it isn't going to be an overnight change. (It also isn't really a change that requires a moderator. Which is why I plan to keep working on ELU even if I don't get elected. The moderator position is, in reality, more about keeping the site running than effecting policy.)
 
(suck up? me? never)
 
@phenry what, me?
 
no, me sucking up to @Shog9
 
ah
 
10:58 PM
@phenry gosh that's so inspiring, I feel an overwhelming urge to wave a red flag and sing an anthem. This is meant in fun. I don't want to sound sarky
 
@phenry no, I was mimicking Alfred E. Newman.
 
@phenry Do you think the current moderator team is ignoring the current requests for change?
 
@Mari-LouA haha! Just vote! that's all I ask.
 
@MrHen - absolutely true. I don't want to come in and start changing everything immediately. I just think there's a voice that isn't being heard, and there should be.
 

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