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7:04 PM
No, I updated after the problem appeared. I was running stable when it happened
 
2.5.0?
or 2.4.1?
 
2.5
 
cool that narrows it down a bit
 
What's the most dramatic optimization (that resulted in a still-working product) that you've made?
Probably the most dramatic change I've made was figuring out a needed index on a Mongo DB (it was also my first exposure to Mongo, incidentally). The query went from taking nearly 10 seconds to about 10 milliseconds.
 
I made my boss spend $$$ to buy a stupid T-SQL script that would run for 3 days. I rewrote it all, completes in 3 seconds.
considering selling them back the new script for twice the amount lol
 
7:11 PM
LOL.
Don't try it. They'll sue you :)
 
they're idiots
thing was deadlocking itself over nested cursors and whatnot
 
So, why'd your boss spend the money in the first place if you could just write it?
 
I don't recall how, but somehow something was invoking a procedure I didn't have anywhere, and that's the procedure that was stuck for 3 days
I said let me take a look at that script and I'll fix it
having seen the rest of their solution, I knew what kind of crap to expect
was not disappointed
 
Maybe you should build an alternative on the side and sell it :)
 
eh, it's very very niche
and I'm thinking that vendor is going out of business soon-ish
 
7:18 PM
Perfect--you'd get their customers :D
 
@Hosch250 It's funny because it's true and sad at the same time.
 
@IvenBach By that logic, the Holocaust is funny...
That is true and sad. Doesn't mean it's funny...
 
"that escalated quickly"
 
@Hosch250 Let's turn that light switch back on, got dark pretty fast.
 
yikes.
 
7:24 PM
FWIW, I've heard similar complaints when it comes to SQL-based ISV products. TBH IDK how they got in business in the first place.
I have to believe it all started from a golf cart. That's the only explanation I can come up with.
 
always count on an OP to accept the simple solution, no matter how wrong
@newbieDBBuilder note that this solution has a SQL injection vulnerability that the other solution does not have. SQL injection vulnerabilities are a security issue, but also a bug waiting to happen. Consider learning proper parameterization instead of concatenating form fields into queries. — Mathieu Guindon 30 mins ago
 
@MathieuGuindon but it works and it's simple, stop telling me to do it the right way!
 
next question: "why can't John O'Connor log into my database?"
 
Or Jim Null :D
 
or Robert'; DROP TABLE STUDENTS --
 
7:27 PM
Always fear the li'l Bobby Tables.
Aside: a while ago I mentioned that the state DOT had a big SQL hole. I just checked and they apparently silently patched it. After a month, I think but I wasn't checking in between.
 
Nice!
Talking about patches, apparently the NSA told MS about a bug for the first time.
 
I have no way of knowing whether my email to them actually got it fixed or not. Who knows what the buraucracy does.
I don't think that's right. Pretty sure NSA has been telling MS about bugs before.
 
@Hosch250 I wrote an SPC analysis program that would open Excel reports, pull the data out, do math on it and produce a summary. It took over 9 minutes to run with just a month of data. They wanted to run it on all the reports we had ever made.
I changed the code that opens the Excel reports to use DAO to pull data out of the excel files, like they were a database. This skipped the whole opening a workbook load time and the process completed in 9 seconds instead of 9 minutes. They are now able to analyze all the reports ever made in a minute or two.
 
@this OK, technically true: msn.com/en-us/news/technology/…
 
@HackSlash nice!
 
7:32 PM
(I know, wouldn't it be nice if the data was in a database to begin with?)
 
They never allowed themselves to be linked to the report before. They always masked their involvement.
I misread it this morning.
 
@Hosch250 I wouldn't say "always masked" but they are (tmk) typically asked semi-annually if they've found issues and provide documentation. the same goes for the FBI and pentagon. this is part of the primary government contractor ("PGC") agreement. they have ~90 days to respond if they are reviewing anything documentation requests are handled 90 days from acknowledgement by the PGC of the government's response. these are further reviewed via the government audit program
 
OK.
 
if they subcontract anything, it gets harrier (which is why the 90 day window exists)
<-- handles contracts for government subcontract. those are absolutely awful, and i've not known a new company who "wants" to be a PGC because of the amount of bullshittery involved
 
Wife: "what's this Amazon box that just arrived?"
gasp
 
7:45 PM
:joy:
 
Breathe mug.
 
Post a video on YT.
 
@this Are you aware of or familiar with SQL Business Intelligence Development Studio?
 
uh, are you still stuck on 2005 or 2008?
that's the old name for what is now called SQL Server Data Tools (SSDT)
 
7:51 PM
Has it been replaced?
I got an install request for 2005 and am just reading about it. Trying to learn what I need to learn.
 
WTF? why?!?
2005 is EOL'd!
 
:cringe:
 
I'm working on understanding it. I'd rather install whatever is the current version.
 
Windows 7 EOL'ed 2 days ago :D
 
@IvenBach what version is SQL Server?
running SQL 2012 here, using SSDT 2015
 
7:55 PM
2012 IIRC.
 
@Hosch250 you sounds rather happy.
 
I am :D
 
should we start counting the days until you encounter a fool still on Win7 extended support?
 
@IvenBach if it's 2012 confirmed, get SSDT on VS2015, you have no reason to use 2005 to deploy on SQL 2012
 
For me, it means no supporting IE 8--you can't get more recent than 11 on supported systems.
 
7:56 PM
@MathieuGuindon docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/ssdt/… is an download option for VS?
 
@this that fool is 18 inches away from my work laptop!
 
(can't remember - can Win7 run IE11?)
 
@this I can tell them we don't offer extended support.
@this Yes, it absolutely can, and is recommended.
 
@MathieuGuindon you need to tell that fool to give you some personal space, then.
 
It's just that a LOT of people never updated their browser.
 
7:56 PM
lol
 
@Hosch250 IMO, that's absolutely moronic.
downright criminal if I say so.
waitamintue Windows Update doesn't update IE?
 
@IvenBach think so. something something extensions & updates menu
 
A lot of it is locked-down corp that never "tested" it.
@this When you install the service pack, it updates to 9.
But it doesn't just come in like a Windows update.
 
hmm. sounds complicated. Seems to me that MSFT should have had pushed IE 11 as an update so you wouldn't have to deal with fools using IE8 because it's the big blue E on their desktop.
 
Even if they did that, corp could block it.
 
7:59 PM
in which case, the corp is the criminal
 
Yep.
Said corp are also likely to stay on 7 for several more months, but I'm just happy that now there's going to be a lot more pressure to update their publicly-facing systems to 10.
Which means I as a web dev can use HTML5 and CSS3 features.
And that they can't complain when I say we don't support IE 8 anymore because even 7 is dead.
Of course, I don't even work with IE anymore since my new job, but if I were to have to, I can fight back finally.
 
yeah, you're definitely in a better place than few years ago or even a decade ago where you had to basically handle IE and the rest.
 
Yeah, CSS 3 introduced some really handy query options.
Not to mention HTML5...
 
IE8 wasn't HTML5?
 
Those were easier to get around, though--just use lots and lots of divs!
 
8:11 PM
@this limited support; wasn't fleshed out, so didn't typically work as intended
 
:facepalm: HTML5 was already out before IE8, IIRC.
 
yes... there were a few specific things that weren't handled, tmk
 
Not completely.
Some of the stuff it did.
 
not sure if they had a newer version of 8 that fixed that or not... i was still an opera person at that point
 
OTOH, it was still Ballmer's show back then, I think.
Ballmer isn't exactly..... progressive.
 
8:14 PM
had to look it up... html5 became official 20141028, while ie8 came out 20090319
 
@Cyril Yeah, it came out right around when I was going through college.
 
HTML5 is a software solution stack that defines the properties and behaviors of web page content by implementing a markup based pattern to it. HTML5 was the fifth and last major version of HTML that is a World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) recommendation. The current specification is known as the HTML Living Standard and is maintained by a consortium of the major browser vendors (Apple, Google, Mozilla, and Microsoft), the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WHATWG). HTML5 was first released in public-facing form on 22 January 2008, with a major update and "W3C Recommendation" status...
 
10 had good support, and 11 added a little more.
 
" HTML5 was first released in public-facing form on 22 January 2008"
 
Most CSS3 stuff was in 9; 8 was missing part of it.
 
8:14 PM
Ah, OK
 
"On 28 October 2014, HTML5 was released as a W3C Recommendation"
 
Weird my memory might be playing tricks on me because I remember HTML5 being heavily hyped over in early 2010s.
and vendors were rushing to get up to the specs. Particularly Safari, Chrome and Firefox.
 
Some stuff was released by browsers around then as things were worked on and it became clear what the final version would look like.
 
But Ballmer had to just stand and yell and sweat profusely.
 
But the final official version wasn't until later.
 
8:16 PM
well, depends on waht you consider "the future"... w3c doesn't dictate what's good and useful, just what is plannable/predicatble behaviour with general standarization
opera had html5 support back in ~2010 ,i believe; i can only imagine otehrs had it, too
 
At least W3C is taken much more seriously compared to say, back in 2000.
 
is W3CSchool still a thing?
 
in 2000, everyone basically gave W3C the finger and did it their own way and you had to basically write 3 versions of your websites to work on all major browsers.
Yeah
 
I recall reading that W3CSchool was a particularly bad place to learn anything
 
well, ever since they lobbied the library of congress to be included in standarization, they've been a bit "bigger"
 
8:18 PM
@MathieuGuindon Yeah I think it is, but that's not same thing as W3C so...
 
W3 Schools is actually really good now.
 
I don't think they teach bad things but rather more that they don't tell you what is the right way to do things.
 
The W3 Fools site even posted an update saying they were an OK source to use because they had, for once, listened to their critics.
 
They focus more on "this exists, and this is what you can do with it" rather "you should do this that way"
 
they do the "fill in this blank with what you told you to fill it with earlier"
 
8:19 PM
@this Yep. They have some of the best docs out there on HTML and CSS.
 
^^ which is nice to demonstrate but not that great if you are flailing around for right way to do it.
 
that sounds like docs.msft
 
w3schools.com/html helped me make my first website lol
 
@Hosch250 Really? That's news.
back then I basically used MDN plus lot of googling & flailing around
 
<html>
<body>
Hello, world!
</body>
</html>
 
8:21 PM
@Hosch250 i had heard their CSS stuff was topknotch, but didn't know they were leading for HTML, too.
 
I should re-evaluate W3CSchools, then.
 
i had read they were one of the first to categorize and describe the changed for CSS 3 or whatever the newest "version" is
 
TBH I usually avoid any links to W3Schools when I google for something webby.
 
@MathieuGuindon didn't say it was pretty...
 
@MathieuGuindon Missing head.
 
8:23 PM
Pretty sure head is optional.
 
@this don't tell my wife
 
The MDN (Mozzila Dev Net) is good for JS.
@this No, it's not. You need a title tag in it.
You are also supposed to put the page language in it.
 
form tag was what i was thinking was missing
 
but I can run without it.
 
:derp: Path.PathSeparator != Path.DirectorySeparator
 
8:24 PM
@this Only because browsers are very forgiving because people don't read the spec.
If you run it through the W3C validator, it'll scream at you.
 
but I'm on W3CSchools!
shouldn't it be screaming at me right now?
 
> The <title> element defines the title of the document, and is required in all HTML documents.
Right in the W3Schools page on the head.
 
no no
I deleted the head from it, ran it.
and it rendered without even a warning.
 
just discovered system-versioned temporal tables. v.nice :-)
 
Oh, right. That's your browser.
 
8:26 PM
cus it's recognized in their snippit tool as being "HTML"
 
They are "forgiving" just like browsers are.
 
That's my point earlier - it lets you do bad things but doesn't tell you that you are doing it.
 
didn't think it was a browser thing, just their site
 
@mansellan need application versioned temporal tables then I'll be happy. :)
 
FWIW, they aren't processing the HTML there.
They are just shoving it into an iframe and letting the browser deal with it.
 
8:28 PM
@this what would they be?
 
So if you're a hapless noob flailing around, you might find a syntax that work and their "try it" seems to suggest it works
 
@this At least the try-it recommends the right way...
 
then you put it in your dinky little website and now you get emails from customers asking why it's all messed up.
True.
 
You can mangle it on your own, but the try-it default is right.
Same with any other system.
Personally, I don't even use the try-it anyway. I just read their docs.
 
@mansellan mainly that you can control the start/end dates yourself whereas system-versioned assume "now" at the moment of record update.
 
8:29 PM
unrelated to the HTML topic... i need to find a better way to format tables. put a bunch of extra crap in the table (because of what's requested by group A) which is then 'formatted' by group B essentially just reverse looping and deleting crap. takes for frickin ever
 
@this ah ok. tbh I was about to roll my own (almost identical schema) when I found the built-in goodness
 
only about 200 lines, deleting every line that is A) not bolded and B) col j = 0
10 seconds to do.
 
yes if you are fine with database assuming that any change is also the moment start/end apply, it's great.
It becomes problematic when you need to insert/update/delete records from a specific point of time that's not right now.
 
yeah that works for my current use-case. I can see why its limiting though
 
Yeah, I'm unlucky because I need that more than I need the system. I have cases where users are writing data about events that happened already or will happen.
 
8:32 PM
back to home-rolled then...
 
for me, yeah
 
looks like they've left a spot for it in the syntax... GENERATED ALWAYS implies the second word may not always be the only choice...
 
it's actually a part of SQL standard
 
ah ok
 
so they have to make sure they follow the SQL standard even though they didn't actually implement the application versioning which would require something else
 
8:37 PM
@Hosch250 as you can see, I do HTML all the time
 
lol
 
@MathieuGuindon doesn't everyone?
 
miss the head? yeah
 
Well, that, and write HTML all the time.
 
the funny thing is, I do have some memories of reading "HTML for dummies" at one point in my life, typing up HTML in notepad
 
8:40 PM
was that in the 00s?
 
or just before
yeah
damn, 20 years ago :cries:
 
that was basically the stone age. lol
 
yep. dial-up internet
 
@MathieuGuindon I have memories of typing HTML in Notepad too--in 2014.
 
and tiled background was the hottest thing evar!
(not)
 
8:43 PM
Or was it 2015? :thinking:
Stupid professor said "there are better tools to use for this, but you have to use Notepad anyway."
 
@MathieuGuindon out of curiosity, what was your search engine before Google?
 
And we had to use tabs instead of spaces.
 
@Hosch250 probably believes in having you type HTML by sight.
 
Yeah, I can do that, for sure :)
I do it in VS too, now.
 
I don't blame them - WYSIWYG tools back then was horrid crap. I wonder if anyone else remember Dreamweaver.
 
8:45 PM
It just has handy things like auto-closing the ", etc.
@this Oh my gosh, I still see sites built with that.
 
@Hosch250 oh, stop whining, you crybaby. Type every stroke like a real man already!
 
I've never used it, but there's enough sites with credits in the footer.
@this :D
 
The sad thing is that it has been already dead for how long? a decade or more?
(right?)
 
Adobe Dreamweaver is a proprietary web development tool from Adobe Inc.. It was created by Macromedia in 1997 and developed by them until Macromedia was acquired by Adobe Systems in 2005.Adobe Dreamweaver is available for the macOS and Windows operating systems. Following Adobe's acquisition of the Macromedia product suite, releases of Dreamweaver subsequent to version 8.0 have been more compliant with W3C standards. Recent versions have improved support for Web technologies such as CSS, JavaScript, and various server-side scripting languages and frameworks including ASP (ASP JavaScript, ASP VBScript...
Yeah, they actually published the latest version just a couple months ago :O
The same day I started my current job, LOL.
 
I truly did thought it was long ago dead, before Adobe bought Macromedia.
I guess that's why you still see websites made with it.
 
8:47 PM
probably another crapware riddled with major security flaws a la acrobat reader and flash?
@this remember altavista?
 
but isn't Adobe in process of killing Flash off?
@MathieuGuindon Yep I do! I flip-flopped between that and Lycos.
 
that does ring a bell
and eventually there was yahoo!
and hotmail before MS bought it
 
then at one point I found dogpile.com which was nice since it was meta-search search engine. Never used yahoo. Couldn't get over the name and immaturity that came with it.
But TBH, the internet was horrid before Google. Remember how they used to do this ring thing because you couldn't be sure you'd be found on website?
 
hm? what ring thing?
 
are you talking about when my 28.8 would randomly re-tone to "ensure connection"?
back when i had to throw my receiver on the internet port
@this tmk they aren't kililng it, but browsers are moving away from it so no need to support
 
8:52 PM
no, it was where if you had a website, you would ask other websites to add you to a ring so that people'd find you
it's basically a list of links that all maintainers "promise" to keep updated on their websites
 
all i can think of is joining a newsgroup with that. guess i'm not that familiar
 
no, NNTP is something different.
 
eh, the early 2000's are a blur
 
Yeah, like I said, it was horrid.
 
9:14 PM
Wohoo :) Our first C# application. Cooperation with my padawan at work. He did the design, me functionality :) The task was to "we use this in the command line. 90 % of us don't know how to use command line. Can it be done in a window?" :-D

So... My first introduction into C# project from creation to the end. :-)
(It's comparing 2 pictures and highlights the difference in a color)
The most complicated thing was to find out how to animate a progressbar.marquee when Process was working in the "background". Few hours until I found private readonly BackgroundWorker _bw = new BackgroundWorker();
 
@SonGokussj4 Good job!
 
anything like xmlSerializer for VBA?
 
Thanks. In a few months, maybe I'll be able to help even you guys with something :-)
 
9:32 PM
@SmileyFtW oof
 
@MathieuGuindon oof?
I am wanting to go through the objects I have and save it out to xml instead of worksheets (I think, but maybe not..LOL)
 
@SmileyFtW does MSXML library count?
 
yeah... I don't know of any piece of VBA code that does XML serialization. Would be pretty cool, but lack of reflection capabilities make that pretty hard to implement
 
@MathieuGuindon ahhh... Yeah, I was working in C# and because I am using Interfaces I can't (aaparently) use xml Serialization...
 
What are you trying to do?
 
9:43 PM
@this I have a golf league object that has sub objects, collections, etc. and I wanted to save that data out to an xml file as opposed to writing to worksheets and saving the xl file
and read it back in to populate them in the next session
 
I think I'm missing something because you mentioned C# -- if it's in C#, why not do it all in C#?
 
I'm just going to stick woth tables on worksheets for now.
 
or you could use a database.
;)
 
I mentioned C# because I am wanting to move away from XL, and started trying my hand at reading/writing xml but got snafooed because of the Interfaces
databases adds a whole nother layer of learning I would have to do :)
I am under a time crunch
 
@SmileyFtW xml serialization requires a class with a default constructor, and properties with a getter and a setter
that works out of the box
anything else needs custom serialization
 
9:48 PM
Parameterless constructors is what I ran into... and I wanted to have just getters in the interfaces, with the constructors in the objects that use the Interface... I'm probably approaching it whrong LOL
So for now using your Data Getter approach in "There Is No Worksheet" (IIRC)
So much to learn in C#... <G>
I'm not dropping it, just shifting gears to be ready this spring
If you want to look at what I've done so far: github.com/SmileyFtW/NextGenGolfLeagueApplication
 
@this iiuc the large blob is COM structured storage - pretty much a filesystem-in-a-file. I've wondered for a while if there's useful stuff that RD could do if it could comprehend the format.
not sure what, but...
 
Mug I'd like a Duck check. The option to implement a public interface should always be allowed while the private interface predicated on a private implementing class?
Implementing Class | Chosen (UI) Interface Instancing | Evaluated (created) Interface Instancing
Private | Private | Private
Private | Public | Public
Public | Public | Public
Public | Private | Incompatible error - Not a possible option.
 
10:03 PM
@mansellan right we talked about it. We do have to first find where it's (in memory, i mean)
 
yeah
 
@SmileyFtW you can still have public class Foo : ISomething with ISomething only exposing getters - as long as it's Foo that you're de/serializing
(and that Foo has a parameterless ctor and get+set accessors)
@IvenBach yep
the common case being private class / public interface
public interface should be the default IMO
 
Now I've understood what you initially were explaining.
 
Baby steps get you there.
 
10:12 PM
@IvenBach how does the contrast not bother you?!?
 
If the VBIDE had a dark them I'd gladly apply it.
Thanks for reminding me how much it triggers me :twitch:
 
Ditto but it doesn't, so I went with blue so it wouldn't clash so hard with the bright bleach white toolwindows.
LOL
Nuclear option: Set Windows theme to dark
 
I seldomly open the properties window for very long. Muscle memory makes me squint whenever it's displayed.
@this ~.~ my windows theme is dark. I think...
 
i like having my project explorer code explorer & properties open and docked to left for quick access
hm. I don't think so.
I've used dark contrast and it will make those whitey-tighty toolwindows dark, too.
 
Yep it's set to dark.
 
10:15 PM
some kind of custom dark?
 
I chose dark but it's saying custom. :shrug:
:twitch:
 
ah I see what you mean now. no, not quite the same thing
 
@MathieuGuindon So in de/serialization I have to refer to a private class that has the info with public getters/setters by somehow transforming the public interface versions into the private ones... IIGI
the de/serialize those
the>then
 
@IvenBach you have to use the "high contrast" it looks like.
 
@SmileyFtW to be clear: the de/serialization doesn't care about the interface, just the concrete type
 
10:20 PM
They basically changed everything in win10, it looks like.
^ that's the high contrast dark mode. Fugly.
 
^ Triggers me more.
 
CE & blue doesn't look good there.
 
That's why I didn't switch.
 
But there are third party utilities that does a better job. AT least it did on Win7 - IDK if it still works for win10
 
@MathieuGuindon - I get that I think. The interface is what I'm using to create objects with immutable properties in the instantiation and then just being able to "get" the property in the use of the public object, but I want to be able to write/read the objects as xml... so I think that what I will need to do is at read/write is to "create" the entire model as private objects that have getters and setters for the properties I want to read/write. Correct?
 
10:29 PM
yep
 
Thanks!
 
an interface is just a lens through which you look at an object - it's not the object
 
Hmmm... gotta ponder that and how to switch "lenses"
Cocktail time... Later, and thanks again
 
later!
 
@SmileyFtW Try staring at an electrical outlet. They have the 2 vertical prong with grounding base for a reason. 120V follows that interface.
Nema 5-15 IIRC.
 
10:38 PM
electrical outlets are a great analogy
public class SomeWallOutlet: IAmericanStandard120V
 
That really was an "AHA" moment when I understood that concept.
 
but it shouldn't mean that you can safely take out the 120V face plate, and install a 240V face plate by rewiring the wires from both outlets into the slots.
Maybe you could but more likely, you'll end up setting the house on fire.
 
Then you're lying.
 
(btw, why do I remember it as 110V and 220V?)
 
isn't it 120 and 240?
 
10:47 PM
Exactly. That's what the analogy highlight when we do the same thing in code. Yes we can make some random object fit some interface but that's still a lie.
@MathieuGuindon apparently, it depends
I can see why I got 110 instead of 120.
 
after playing a bit with SSView (https://www.mitec.cz/ssv.html) I've been wondering the same thing. Even knowing that the structured storage format is intended to be user for.... STORAGE, I wondered if it could give clues as to how/where the code is kept in-memory. Being able to get the VBA code from memory, rather then having to rely on exporting code to Disc could potentially enable all sorts of performance improvements.

Even if that proved to be a dead end (or too hacky to be acceptable for production)... getting the code from the .bin file could be useful in that it would allow RD to "
 
Blame the old? Stuck in their ways unwilling to change. "I can flip this bit with my cosmic rays. I don't need nothing new."
 
so, it's 120V then :)
 
plus/minus 10% so....
:-p
As I recall, voltages aren't that important; it's the amperes that matters.
 
10:57 PM
which is kind of weird when you think about it - we buy and sell electricity based on voltages but seldom on amperes. Nobody says "I'll go to store and pick me up some .25A batteries."
 
gimme high.... voltage.... and rock and roll
 
lol
 
argh
SSIS package runs for 50 minutes
thought I'd reimplement it as a TSQL script and slice that down to mere seconds
been running for 35 minutes now
 
Hm, at least in Germany you buy electricity in kWh.
Not the batteries, of course.
They are basically fixed current, which means that the voltage determines the power of the battery.
@MathieuGuindon Any further comments regarding my PR?
 
looks good to me, really
had it approved, no?
 

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