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2:02 PM
Based on what? They seems to be in design phase.
Community :D
Fair enough. Right now, it's vaporware, though. IDK how long they'll need to get up to the same quality as SO's software.
be interesting if they were able to take the contents of SO, too.
They already have.
They are busy downloading a data dump from Dec.
Retro terminal effects is a massive waste of time, LOL.
uh.... that's painful.
I'm pretty sure it didn't glow that brightly in the green screen days.
2:25 PM
~sigh ... I just wrote 20 lines of text in vi and promptly tried to :wq out of libre office calc after putting my hours in there T.T
I just requested deletion of my SE profile on all sites except CR.
I'll keep that one around for a while so I have access to chat.
@Hosch250 You'll be reducing your activity on CR?
@Mast Well, no. Because I've not been active either on meta or the main site consistently for a couple years.
@Hosch250 Ok, let me rephrase that: you'll be continuing your lack of activity indefinitely?
For the record, your most recent answer is more recent than my most recent. So don't sell yourself short.
@Mast Yes.
2:33 PM
@Hosch250 Unfortunate, but I can't blame you.
More and more people are leaving lately.
out of curiosity: What mechanism did you use to request the deletion? Did you go through all of your accounts and delete them?
I was thinking about posting a few new questions, but I don't get good reviews lately, between my skill being high-ish now and other people leaving.
@Vogel612 Yes.
Some insta-deleted, most showed the "we'll get to it within 24 hours" message.
Shiii... If I ever have to do that that's over 100 accounts.
I only had like 30 accounts.
insta-deletion is probably for accounts that have literally no activity, the 24 hour thing is probably for accounts that have votes
2:35 PM
Or badges.
A lot of my accounts had 1 badge, and probably a few had votes.
note that for your CR account, the deletion would probably be manually reviewed, which can take more than 24 hours
My SO one was around 4k. And yeah, my CR one is over 20k.
@Vogel612 Who would do the reviewing, a CM or one of you?
I'm not sure I'll delete it for a while. I'm active in several chat rooms still.
And I'm still hopeful something will get straightened up, even if very pessimistic about it.
Hey @user174968 I have granted you explicit write access to this room
2:36 PM
Maybe the IPO will flop and they'll be badly shaken.
@Mast CM
basically CMs take a look at accounts with large amounts of votes to determine whether to keep the votes or to delete them
That won't be hard on a 20k+ account, right?
My SO one might even need a review. It has 4k rep.
Disassociate and remove account, not content/votes.
Too big an impact.
@Mast the rep is not related to the votes a user gave
there's users out there with tons of rep, but no votes and also those where the reverse is true
2:38 PM
@Vogel612 It's probably safe to say I gave out about 40k rep :)
@Hosch250 I'll just stick with PuTTY, thanks
I strongly suspect Hosch has voted enough as well.
I made it a practice to rep-cap every day for a good while.
I used to actively participate in the giving-badges query we had.
@Hosch250 more like 90k, actually
@Vogel612 OK!
2:40 PM
I've cast over 12k votes, roughly half of those are upvotes.
the activity page include a "Votes cast" and a "Bounties" section
8.8k upvotes at 10 each is pretty close to 90k rep
You know what? If I decide to leave I'll bounty all my rep away.
There's no rate-limit on bounties, is there?
There must be, somewhere...
3 at a time.
and the largest they can be is 500 rep IIRC
2:41 PM
I can stick around for a month or two and do that.
It's in the FAQ, ofcourse.
oh and you can only award a bounty 24 hours after putting it up
For that matter, if you guys want to start making a list of exceptional answers, feel free.
A: Why can't a user have simultaneous bounties any more?

wafflesWe now allow for up to 3 concurrent bounties per user. We will be analyzing the effect over the next few weeks.

RE: Codidact, why do they keep talking about "MVP" as if it was something much more general than Model-View-Presenter? Is there some other meaning I don't know about?
2:52 PM
Minimum Viable Product
basically the thing that's just enough no longer prototype to show customers
ok that makes much more sense.
It's not even close to that currently though, right?
I was also wondering why they'd even want to use Model-View-Presenter for what essentially a web app. :)
active development started ... two days ago I think
Development started just a couple days ago.
2:55 PM
IOW, be a while.
They are working on the SCSS and the DB.
before that they were mostly hammering out the specs and the stack and stuff
when did the project as whole started?
but the thing isn't that terribly complicated. If the RD team wanted, we could probably pull an MVP out of the ground in at most a week
especially if the specs are complete
the only problem is that nobody is working on it fulltime afaict
I also have to say I'm not a big fan of the name.
2:58 PM
I think it's a play on autodidact.
ah, now I see
still, a bit too out there. If you want to dissuade the "gimme teh codez" crowd, calling it "teachourvelvestogether.com" would probably do a better job at that. Too wordy, though.
otherwise, they'll think it's some kind of greek name for a fish.
Eh, it's easy to say, which is the most important thing.
it's unique for sure which is also good for SEO
Easy to remember and type into the URL thing, too.
@this Be surprised if they're at MVP within 2 months really, takes time to build something like this.
Especially with this many contributors.
@Hosch250 And not another experts exchange fiasco.
3:03 PM
@Hosch250 not sure about that. It's something you have to read carefully and memorize.
if all you do is skim and then few days later, you're trying to remember, will you remember it's co-did-act?
with stackoverflow, there's no doubt even if you skim because they're just normal words that we already use and recognize.
@Mast don't you mean expert sex change?
@this Must've been trans before it was popular.
@this nope. not at all. that's why I bookmarked the page, but even with that, my eye would probably skim right past it in my list of bookmarks 3 or 4 times before I find it again.
Plus, I keep trying to make "code addict" out of it.
@FreeMan Funny, I had that problem for a couple times too :)
Until I remembered the autodidact word.
that I would remember!
3:19 PM
Yep. But that's the point - if you have to explain, it fails the memorability criteria.
On the flip side, explaining might help remember it more.
I've seen some businesses use that idea for their name, reasoning that if people has to ask what their name signify, they'll remember that business longer than a generic name
hmm, maybe "memorability" is not really the right term to use.
3:39 PM
wait, what were we talking about?
Codidact's name.
oh yeah.... ;)
25 mins ago, by this
hmm, maybe "memorability" is not really the right term to use.
would it be funnier if I mansplained it instead?
3:50 PM
Try it.
and I just realized now I have no idea how I'd "mansplain" it.
(i know what it is but I just don't know how to do it)
Ok, woman, this is how it works. You get a cod, and you make it act. That is how you get cod did act, so therefore we learn.
^ my lame attempt
@user174968 Welcome! I assume you're afonsomira.
4:05 PM
Glad to have you here - we love having new languages added. Unfortunately, that is not my bailiwick as I never done any translation.
Pinging @MathieuGuindon, @Vogel612 or @M.Doerner for guidance on this as they have some experience doing translation.
Ok thanks
@this "You understand how this works? Let me explain exactly what you think you know in my own condescending tone"
i don't understand
my wife had to explain that to me... apparently her manager does it all the time, and the manager is female and regularly wrong
explain me
4:09 PM
@user174968 That was in reference to earlier messages not relating to the translation, we were joking about the word "mansplaining"
@Cyril ok, that's a new level of hilarious.
I'm new on this things
How can i change my username on the chat?
you're fine, Alf; some of the convos get crossed (which can be hysterical when they "could" be related)
I think you do that via your profile
@user174968 have to get enough points with your account so your actual username shows up... until then, you're "user######"
if you click on your icon, you can go to your profile.
4:11 PM
@Cyril OK
Yes i need 20 points
Yea, that's only going to show up when you earn the 20 reputation
so I will have to ask MathieuGuindon for help or one of the others who referred me, right?
Yes - those 3 I pinged might be busy ATM but should give you more details with how to translate and whether you can use Visual Studio Code or not. Other translators usually has used ResXManager (which I linked in the issue)
@AfonsoMira hi!
(I've refreshed your chat profile from your user's parent site)
you have Visual Studio 2017?
(it's ok if you don't, you don't necessarily need it for translations)
in any case, you'll want to start with forking the repository to your GitHub account, and then cloning to your local computer.
4:30 PM
I have visual studio code
yeah, ...that won't do
I mean, Rubberduck won't build in VSCode
I can install Visual Studio 2017
cool! you'll want to refer to this page for the initial setup - if you have a Rubberduck release build installed, you'll want to uninstall it first.
@MathieuGuindon if he's going to install, ought he install 2019 instead? (not sure if 2017 community is still available)
Do we run with 2019 yet?
4:35 PM
2019 should work :sweat-smile:
well, yeah, there's that.
@Hosch250 AppVeyor is still using 2017
That's easy to change :)
@Hosch250 I can tell you that it will build in 2019 locally in the next branch.
I just can't get the test explorer to work. :(
4:35 PM
That's good news :)
I install 2019
@Hosch250 ! Why would it be? We need to run tests, no?
@AfonsoMira only if you want to. I mentioned it mainly so you don't have to unisntall 2017 then install 2019 later.
I meant good news 2019 was finally supported.
4:37 PM
but we don't actually know when we may (if ever) start requiring 2019.
@Hosch250 technically it's still working on a patched Sunburst SDK but as far as I know, designers are still broken, so it's still a possibility that we will need to move off the patched Sunburst SDK once Microsoft get around to fixing the WPF bug introduced in the 16.4.
so, after you got Visual Studio, you'll want to get the ResX Manager plug-in -- it makes life so much easier when translating the many resource files
@MathieuGuindon Note that I linked to it in the github issue.
I can only install all this on my machine on Saturday
no problem
4:41 PM
BTW any questions you might have, about anything, crazy or not - never hesitate to ask here
Ok, thanks
and of course, you are welcome here at any time. There's always someone here. At least for most of timezones.
if my english is not good i apologize
4:42 PM
Naw, don't worry about it. Nobody can speak English here anyway!
it's better than my Portuguese :)
I understand more than I speak :)
if I can't install visual studio which others recommend me
was there a standalone ResX Manager?
if you can't install VS then you won't be able to build Rubberduck - but you can still download the ResX Manager standalone app and contribute the translations
4:45 PM
I'll try to install VS on saturday and then notice something here in chat
awesome :)
if there's nobody here, just drop a message - someone will eventually answer
also, @ me anytime, I get the notifications on my phone
thanks a lot
see you later
4:51 PM
I'm reading the contributing and it seems a bit disjointed due to various edits. I'm inclined to update it. One thing I'm doubtful is whether listing nuget packages is actually helpful. Did anyone ever have to manually restore nuget packages?
@this not in a loooong time =)
been thinking the same
yeah, I think I'll chuck that section. I think at one point we needed because people were missing nuget packages but we've also been changing it lately so no sense in having an outdated list.
Also the debugging really needs its own section.
@AfonsoMira BTW welcome to the pond (this chatroom).
@AfonsoMira I'm a native English speaker and whoo boy is my writing terrible at times. Don't worry about it. We're all here to help.
@Duga this is only slash'n'dash editing - still need more TLC later.
5:03 PM
@IvenBach Hello, Thanks :)
5:21 PM
For VBA class modules does the order of the attributes matter?
I don't think so but don't quote me.
one way you can definitely test this is to import it in, then re-export it
if it works, then you know it's kosher. I expect that it'll reorder the attributes in its own way but will be tolerant of your weird ordering (as long it's still in a legal place, of course)
I'd export a class and generate them in the order they export in
but yeah, I'd expect the order to be actually irrelevant
5:37 PM
Good day gentlemen.
I'm having a recurring issue that is similar to a closed item: Issue #2912
I'm not sure if it's just me or if it's a bug
I added some notes to the issue: github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/issues/2912
The problem goes away when Rubberduck is uninstalled. I have removed stable and installed the latest dev release. Issue came back
I have exported all the code in my project and started a new project. Imported all the code modules and after working on it for a while with Rubberduck I get this error again.
Once I see "Error accessing file. Network connection may have been lost." I can't compile the code anymore. I need to close it out and start over.
verifying - are you actually using a network drive or working across wifi?
@HackSlash nah, you can just add a whitespace somewhere and the compile command will return
parsing triggers a compilation, that's why it's disabled
No, I'm saying that once the error starts, I keep getting the error on every compile
@this Yes, all of my projects are on a network share
5:41 PM
That'd be why.
that's very likely the problem
it's unreliable.
just copy your working file to your local drive
I will test with the files copied local
we need to better handle that exception
and work there then put it back when done.
5:42 PM
I wonder if that affects the import/export process.
I'd hope no but... ?
we're exporting to %temp%, no?
oh we are? I was thinking about the update/replace that Max introduced.
not that
Ok, so I copied the borked project to my local C:\temp and when I opened it, I was immediately greeted with the error
5:44 PM
@HackSlash decompile and try again
Because autorun
I think once you have that error, it's borked until you decompile it.
why would it do that?
@MathieuGuindon My uncertainty is because my experience has been limited to running the document itself on the network but I never really did much of import/export across network so I don't know if that is a potential factor.
@MathieuGuindon Sorry, do what? autorun or borked until decompile?
5:46 PM
I did decompile, compact and repair. Still getting it
The only way out, that I have found, is to export and reimport everything in to a new Access DB file
hm. sounds like you are actually missing the file
Yes, most likely what is happening is that you are lacking the file but you have a MSysObjects entry for that file
so it's freaking out about a missing module, whatever it is
wow we really need to not only handle that exception, but actively validate the path of the host document and warn before proceeding with a parse then
Keep in mind that VBA project is stored as a single large blob.
(I think that's true for all Office hosts)
unrelatedly, some VBA projects are written as a single large blob, too :)
so even though a VBA project may represent itself as containing several modules, forms and classes, you only have to corrupt the stream to bring down the whole VBA project.
5:49 PM
To complicate things; the problem is not in my main project. I have a second project that I am pulling in as a reference. The referenced project throws errors from the main.
Hm. To clarify - does the main wihtout referenced project work?
and if you load the referenced project on its own, does it work?
yes. I can remove the reference. It's okay. Then I can add it back, pointing to the new local copy in C:\temp and the error returns
The referencing of project is also very painfully fragile because it stores complete path.
Ok, then I would check the referenced project itself and probably DCCR it.
**ERROR** Could not load C:\temp\DBCompare\Version Control.accda
Error Number: 17 Can't perform requested operation
keep in mind that your DCCR only operate on the active project, not all loaded projects.
out of curiosity why do you reference an addin?
(is it actually meant to be used like an addin, rather than a library project?)
5:52 PM
This is the way that project has historically been deployed. I would love to install it as an addin but I haven't seen that work.
It's pulled in as a reference to any project that you want to do version control on
oh so it's actually used as a library project. It's OK. It just makes the file extension a lie.
If you know how to install an ACCDA as a system addin, I'm all ears. I would do that
I wouldn't bother. Too much hassle. You must run as an admin to do that.
I'm new to ACCDA and I don't know how they are normally used
ok, that's likely why it's being done this way
the fact that it's been used that way implies to me that it's just a library project and actually doesn't need to be an add-in anyway.
5:55 PM
So, I can open the addin by itself, decompile and compile. Then when rubberduck runs parse, the error comes back
Now I'm just in the addin, not using it as a reference. same error
and you're parsing in that referenced project, right?
In which case, you should reimport the file
Yeah, it's the only thing open
the parser shows "Unexpected Error"
then make it a point to always use a local copy, never off the network share.
I'm in the local copy. It's the only thing open
@HackSlash the logs should have a stack trace for that one
5:58 PM
@HackSlash as I mentioned a bit earlier, once the stream is corrupted, the error will persist until you basically reset the stream.
In which importing to a new file is the easiest way to reset that stream.
ok, so decompile and recompile, compact and repair is not enough
doesn't sounds like the case here.
2020-01-16 09:59:21.2928;WARN-;Rubberduck.Inspections.Rubberduck.Inspections.Inspector;System.InvalidCastException: Unable to cast object of type 'Rubberduck.Parsing.Symbols.VariableDeclaration' to type 'Rubberduck.Parsing.Symbols.ModuleBodyElementDeclaration'.
normally, CR will get rid of it but I do remember that when there's a network error, it's very persistent and won't go away.
wait a minute.
\Rubberduck.CodeAnalysis\Inspections\Inspector.cs:line 179
2020-01-16 09:59:25.4444;ERROR-;Rubberduck.Parsing.VBA.ParseCoordinator;Unexpected exception thrown in parsing run. (thread 22).;System.Runtime.InteropServices.COMException (0x80004005): Error HRESULT E_FAIL has been returned from a call to a COM component.
6:00 PM
^ that one
that's not even indicative of a missing file
the 2nd one would be, though
hm, that's all the detail we've got?
@HackSlash let's post the complete log in the issue
the invalid cast is annoying though...
6:01 PM
Yes I'm worried that hte network error might be a red herring now
(not what's failing the parse, but annoying)
@MathieuGuindon so that is "normal"? we do get invalid cast in other projects?
no, it's a bug in an inspection
it's handled though
so all it does is slow down inspection runs a bit
Oh ok
we're somehow trying to cast a module into a variable
some assumption is broken somewhere
6:03 PM
that got me worried for a sec that the error was causing the network error
> Here is a log from today. The project was loaded locally from C:\temp so it's not a network error.

2020-01-16 09:58:51.6766;WARN-;Rubberduck.Common.LogLevelHelper;
Rubberduck version loading:
Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.18363.0 x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11328.20492
Host Executable: MSACCESS.EXE;
2020-01-16 09:59:18.1118;WARN-;Rubberduck.Parsing.VBA.Parsing.TokenStreamParserBase;SLL mode failed whi
no, it's WARN level, handled by the inspector
Do you want more detail than WARN? What should my logging be set at?
Or does that log have enough?
you can try again with TRACE but be aware that it may reveal more details than you want to share (e.g. your private data, code names, that kind of stuff)
ok, there is a DEBUG level exception that you might find interesting
6:12 PM
> If I crank the log up to TRACE the only additional information that seems interesting is this:

2020-01-16 10:10:14.0697;DEBUG-;Rubberduck.Parsing.VBA.Parsing.TokenStreamParserBase;Rubberduck.Parsing.VBA.Parsing.ParsingExceptions.MainParseSyntaxErrorException: extraneous input '\r\n' expecting {'=', WS, LINE_CONTINUATION}
at Rubberduck.Parsing.VBA.Parsing.ParsingExceptions.MainParseExceptionErrorListener.SyntaxError(IRecognizer recognizer, IToken offendingSymbol, Int32 lin
Hmmmm, just a thought: If I had used ASCII char 31 in my code would RD interpret that in a funny way?
Private Const UnitSeparator As String = "?" ' Chr(31) INFORMATION SEPARATOR ONE
I wouldn't expect it to blow anything up
@HackSlash is that the faulting line of code?
Line 73
?? I'm not sure. Line 73 of what?
No, that's not the same module with the funny char.
Line 73 of ModReport is:

LSet DM = DevModeString
That's a hacky module that "Exports print vars for reports"
6:25 PM
Hm, stupid question: does changing it to RSet make it parse fine?
I recall a parser fix to handle RSet/LSet, which wasn't supported before
Compile Error: RSet allowed only on strings
lol duh
It's a user defined type
The type contains a string...
hold on, digging..
lsetStmt : LSET whiteSpace expression whiteSpace? EQ whiteSpace? expression;
it's there
> Eventually every programmer wakes up and before they're fully conscious they see their whole world and every relationship in it as chunks of code, and they trade stories about it as if sleepiness triggering acid trips is a normal thing that happens to people.
BTDT, in a way.
6:31 PM
checks blame, parser rules for lset/rset have been there for 4 years ....wtf
That's a surprisingly good article.
When you're dreaming your brain releases DMT, not LSD. So, yes, it is normal to wake up tripping on DMT
DMT trips are notoriously short.
> After the introductions are made, you are invited to come up with some new ideas, but you don’t have any because you’re a propulsion engineer and don’t know anything about bridges.
They missed an opportunity to propose to hold the bridge up by with carefully calibrated rockets :D
@Hosch250 it reappears every so often, it's pretty weird
Weird, yes, but amusingly accurate.
This time it popped up because someone in the C# design room asked if we were all professionals, and I said there might be some hobbyists or retirees, but most of us were pros, and someone was like "why would you stay a hobbyist when you could live like this?"
6:44 PM
"because i have self-respect"
the last time i heard a similar question, that was the response that was given
it shut the whole room up
Need to make a new response: "Don't call me professional. I work for a living."
The comment was a joke :). But that was a good one :)
@MathieuGuindon LSET is likely not a popular command. So you think you found the bug?
no, AFAICT it should parse just fine
6:53 PM
I've used lset like that and have parsed with it.
oh yeah, and it has been working for a long time. I've been using RD with this code base for a month or so and it only popped on Monday.
I was wondering what I did to break the world. Now I don't know who broke the world
@HackSlash did you update the duck on Friday?
shiny-new-latest build

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