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8:01 PM
@FreeMan Most of them won't go to him.
 
they're basically only chat-pingable by mods and site-pingable under their posts
 
Chat pings won't go unless he's been in chat within 2 weeks, IIRC, and comment pings won't go unless it's his post or he's commented recently.
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 so, so very disappointing...
makes you wonder if he got bombarded in the math forum and left in disgust - never posted anything and hasn't been here in (takes off shoes...) about 4 years
 
for whatever it's worth... the display name is not unique, only the first one I found when setting up the joke
also test run should pass now
 
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 870cbdf8 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded
 
8:09 PM
called it :)
 
All should be 23f's new user name. That wouldn't annoy him in the least for the next 30 days!
 
@Vogel612 so.. the new annotation is in place?
 
yea, it's bodged in with a special-case
Imma make myself a small dinner and then imma start working on the Annotation rework
 
I think we could merge the new functionality, and have the annotation refactoring a separate PR?
 
that was the plan, yes
 
8:13 PM
:+1:
 
3 hours ago, by Vogel612
Okay, I'll just finish the ExcelHKAnnotation by bodging it in and then I'll do the refactor as a separate PR
 
despite this week of writing this powershell script feeling like shoving piles of needles into my skull (figuratively) i learned a lot.
 
though I'm happy to make adjustments if you put in a review :)
 
@Vogel612 ah, missed that one - enjoy dinner!
 
Why does F2 on an Implementation method take me to the Interface definition, and what is the proper way of going to the This.Implementation location of it?
 
8:16 PM
rubberduck > find implementation
 
oh...
hey, that's pretty nifty! Glad you guys thought of that.
:thumbsup"
OldDog.NewTrick
Crikey - this is gonna take a serious refactor of a much too huge Sub to make this happen. It's a good thing, but I think I'll plan today and implement in the morning...
 
8:29 PM
@FreeMan R# though of it first, VS followed; RD had to have it =)
Coding against interfaces without a way to navigate to implementation is... annoying at best
can't wait to have one-click nav buttons in the code panes like R# does
e.g. in the left margin next to ISomething_DoSomething there'd be an up-arrow with a tooltip that says "implements ISomething.DoSomething (click to navigate)", and a click takes you to the interface member
 
yep
I don't see anyone taking interfaces in VBA seriously without the tooling
 
that mocking framework is a HUGE step towards that
but yeah IDE tooling is essential
 
"Don't be a tool, use one."
paraphrases a local tool rental company's slogan
 
keep in mind that in VBA it's kind much easier because everything is interface
wanna mock Excel.Range? Have at it!
 
been thinking about the Avalon code pane toolwindow some more - doing it would not only kickstart the customized editor project, it would also need to solve a ton of problems that need to be solved in any case - e.g. syncing with the VBE's code panes
 
8:50 PM
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 ping reminder for assistance on unit test repo.
 
@MathieuGuindon I just ran a code import using my code:
  Dim FSO As FileSystemObject
  Set FSO = New FileSystemObject
  Dim file As String
  file = Dir(localPath)
  Do While (file <> vbNullString)
    If file <> "SourceControl.bas" Then     'ignore this module - it's not pretty
      Select Case LCase$(FSO.GetExtensionName(file))
        Case "cls", "bas"
          Debug.Print "Importing: " & file
          Access.Application.LoadFromText acModule, FSO.GetBaseName(file), localPath & file
 
^^ Hope everything went well.
 
the reason it Just Works™ is because I don't delete the module - .LoadFromText overwrites the existing module.
(I believe)
about to get schooled if that's a wrong statement...
I do have code to delete the module first, but I'm not calling it. (Don't recall why at this point.)
#TTGH
 
9:13 PM
Just ordered a book on Kubernetes from Manning.
I love their deal of the day thing.
I'm working through the C# 6/7 sections of C# in Depth, and then I'll be out of books again.
I swear I'm going to end up as Manning's best buyer.
I've got my eye on some Haskell and Clojure ones.
Downloading your projects, @IvenBach.
 
@MathieuGuindon ampersands aren't too bad - the trick is to do the diagonal line first and seperately, then do the curved line next.
 
Interview was moved to 2 instead of 4.
 
@this yep, like that (the latter)
 
9:28 PM
@IvenBach You there?
 
> @agglomerator I thought that the order of loading the add-ins was important but I was wrong.

Currently there is no workaround. If AutoDesk is required, then MZ-Tools, RubberDuck and any other .NET-based add-in cannot be loaded at the same time (InvalidCastException because they share the same default AppDomain but the interop types come from different assemblies). You can load/unload them using the Add-In Manager.

Ultimately it's a problem of AutoDesk, that crashes when a .NET-based add-
 
This is a classic case of reference type comparison.
You have two different instances of EmailInfo with the same data.
You are comparing the instances, not the data.
Since these are apparently value types, you'll want to turn it into a struct and implement Equals and GetHashCode.
 
Jul 23 at 19:22, by IvenBach
@Hosch250 You know the saying "There's always a bigger (idiot | fool | dukhead)"? Well that's me.
 
Or, you'll want to expand your Assert into three Assert--one for each property.
 
Since I missed out on that thread.
 
9:29 PM
I'd use Assert.Multiple if I did that.
I learned about this when I was working on VS Diagnostics.
 
@user11170663 welcome to the pond. Didn't see you drop in earlier.
 
> I wonder if this bug report is relevant? I believe that the implication are more widespread than just being not able to load an add-in.
> @carlos-quintero we're watching the development on .Net Core quite keenly at the moment, as version 3 will have support for WPF and COM interop. Microsoft have stated that AppDomains will never be supported in corefx. One idea that's been suggested is to write a shim that loads and forwards to the net core runtime - if we implement that, it will be interesting to see how that affects our isolation from other add-ins, I believe there is no precedence for this.
 
9:47 PM
@puzzlepiece87 I'm efforting to use CodeExplorer more instead of ProjectExplorer. Part of this is naming modules as 'FooBarTests' instead of 'TestFooBar'. Habits are hard to break.
 
'@Folder("Tests")
 
Ooops.
I was just talking to my boss and our QA lead about vaca for an interview.
I accidentally told my boss instead of the QA it was for an interview.
He's disappointed, but I think he'll be OK.
Either way, I'm talking to 3-4 companies ATM, so I'm not worried :)
 
heh, I find it's sometimes beneficial to "accidentally" disclose you may be looking...
 
I had an interview a week ago. I have an interview next Tuesday.
 
9:50 PM
@MathieuGuindon ^^^ Forcing myself out of my comfort zone and renaming along the lines of RD.
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 given that SE chat about architects you linked, I'm really not surprised. Your company sounds soul-destroying...
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 Now waiting to become lead designer at your current place?
 
It's using Razor Pages.
It's basically MVVM over web.
You don't have controllers anymore--it's just MVVM with an invisible network layer between the HTML and the C#.
A new project.
 
More interested in Blazor atm
 
Yeah, but this is pretty close to Blazor.
From what I'm seeing, it would be pretty easy to update it to be Blazor.
 
9:53 PM
Oh cool, will add it to the reading list :-)
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 woopsie
@IvenBach presumably the project has MiminizesPunchPattern and PassesCriteria classes?
e.g. GridCoord -> GridCoordTests
or FooInspection -> FooInspectionTests
oh wait, it's PurlinViabilityChecker
 
PurlinViabilityChecker is the class. The members are MinimizesPunchPatternand PassesCriteria.
 
They are boolean return types. I'm using IsTrue or IsFalse as required to test.
 
cool stuff!
 
10:00 PM
While it's not TDD I'm always making sure to test with a known failure before proceeding.
'Act:
Dim actual As Boolean
actual = checker.MinimizesPunchPattern

'Assert:
Assert.IsTrue False 'actual
Red
Green
Refactor
It's helped me catch a few #Oopsies.
 
lol
hm, but there's no state or dependencies involved?
Assert.IsTrue False isn't really a red test... it's more like a sabotaged test
the idea for "red" is that MinimizesPunchPattern would be returning False
then you write enough code to make it green
 
That's to ensure it's red then uncomment for Assert.IsTrue actual to see it go green.
 
Assert.UniverseIsBroken
 
Assert.MuricaHasPineappleFurAPrez
 
lol
 
10:04 PM
@IvenBach Pineapple fur?
Can I have a hat made out of that?
 
'@TestMethod("Uncategorized")
Private Sub PanelsWide6_PanelsLong138_StringSize18_MinCant2Point5_MaxCant3Point5_PanelsBetweenColumns10_ReturnsFalse()
On Error GoTo TestFail

'Arrange:
Dim checker As PurlinViabilityChecker
Set checker = PurlinViabilityChecker.Create(6, 138, 18, 2.5, 3.5, 10)

'Act:
Dim actual As Boolean
actual = checker.PassesCriteria

'Assert:
Assert.IsFalse actual

TestExit:
Exit Sub
TestFail:
Assert.Fail "Test raised an error: #" & Err.Number & " - " & Err.Description
End Sub
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 this guy did:
 
IrmaGourd I fail at formatting...
 
@mansellan Is that the Boris?
He looks like a yellow Trump, LOL.
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 yes, that's the BoJo.
 
10:06 PM
Not a Brit, but I kind of like how he's trying to actual serious negotiation on the exit now.
 
yep, I'm impressed. He's annoying the left, so he must be doing something right (pun intended!)
...I'll get my coat.
 
Trump and BoJo would hit it off, it looks like.
and i'm sorry, I can't get over it -- a brit named "Boris"?
 
@this ewww... that equivalence has been made before, and it grates. The main difference between the two is that Trump is an idiot, BoJo just pretends to be one.
@this uh, his actual name is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Not kidding.
 
@mansellan to be honest, I was going off based on the looks solely.
I have no clue about his politics or his demandor
As for name --- still.... Boris is definitely unEnglish name there is
This is a Boris:
:D
 
10:13 PM
heh yeah - he acts just like he looks. but he's actually very intelligent, educated at Eton. It's a carefully crafted image.
 
Yeah, Reagan started that, or so I hear.
 
Trump, well.... I'll self-censor in case he has fans here :-)
 
OTOH, you can't be that much of an idiot if you can single-handly make yourself that much money...
 
a pond of idiots rooting for Trump?!?
 
At least, not in business.
 
10:14 PM
I'm willing to grant that he's at least savvy in business, but business ≠ politics
 
I don't care much for him, and he may well be an idiot at politics, but he's not (or wasn't at one time) a complete idiot about everything.
 
iiuc, he inherited most of it. and had several bankrupcies. and didn't pay a great many contractors. and.... must. self. censor...
 
I heard that he did have bankruptcies but bounced back
 
His companies had bankruptcies, not him personally.
 
that can't be easy feat? (right?)
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 I understood he did go through 2 personal bankruptcies
 
10:16 PM
OTOH, there was actually a question about that on Skeptics, and they concluded he did better than the average business.
@this OK, I'm not an expert on the guy :D
 
@this You must go farther down the stupid scale to reach his rooters.
 
lol - you just exhausted my meager knowledge about Trump anyway
@IvenBach see, I think it's KD effect at work.
 
To change the subject, anyone know anything about Kubernetes?
I can't see VBA'ers using it much, TBH.
 
only self-proclaimed smarties root for Trump. Self-proclaimed idiots know better.
:D
I have no clue what Kubernetes is. Is that something similar to Docker?
 
10:18 PM
@this more like service fabric
 
It runs on Docker.
 
micro-service orchestration
 
we're thinking of moving to it
 
The services run on Docker, and Kubernetes controls it.
That's the content of the book I just ordered.
 
10:19 PM
Chris would know a bunch about that
 
actually our qaunts already use it. but they're a different silo...
 
I want to know a bunch about it :D
 
IrmaGourd why have I not known about Protection.AllowEditRanges till now? I have been unlocking and locking cells all this time.
 
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 aye, it really takes a special kind of smarts to bankrupt a casino
 
@MathieuGuindon you, sir, owe me a new monitor ;-)
 
10:25 PM
Pineapple upside down cake business.
 
@mansellan coffee accident?
 
@MathieuGuindon beer + lol :-)
 
mwahaha
TTQW
gosh, very well beyond TTQW
 
aight... first round of compilation issues around AnnotationType fixed...
now I only need to go through all assemblies that depend on RD.Parsing before I have the chance to run unit-tests...
~sigh
 
10:44 PM
We seem to be getting smaller and smaller units of virtualisation... First machines, then OSs, then services, then functions (that's the serverless thing, right?). What's next, virtual operators?
+= // Delegate to Amazon Web Services...
 
functions and operators are not fundamentally different
 
@Vogel612 I can see how that would be true. My question would have been better phrased "What's next, is there a lower abstract unit that could be virtualised?"
Note to self: finish comp-sci degree...
 
no, not really...
where the virtualization happens is the next thing that's going to change though.
 
@Vogel612 intrigued, elaborate please.
 
nevermind concentrated & colocated server farms, the next "big thing" is probably going to be "edge computing" or "fog computing"
basically instead of having a ton of beefy hardware concentrated in "one location", at least parts of compute will move closer to the end user
stuff like computing on other people's phones is the wet dream of the virtualization /service computing researchers
 
10:56 PM
that makes a ton of sense. all those devices out there at 2% CPU... so this is like grid, but more dynamic?
 
basically, yes
of course for long-running stuff, heavy server stuff and big data there still will be large datacenters, but ....
 
heh, battery tech gonna need to improve :-) But yes, it makes perfect sense.
 
JSON over Bluetooth, I guess
 
@MathieuGuindon #TIL. Catching up on chat.
 
Also: they have to call this thing "fog computing". It's the cloud, but at ground level. Conceptually flawless... :-)
There's something drastically wrong with our reality if that doesn't happen. imho :-)
 
11:07 PM
yea, it's probably going to be fog computing
edge-computing is usually stopping just short of the end user device
 
To me, edge means "right at the boundary between systems". This is over the edge.
That said, not sure I'm looking forward to it... My phone used to last all day. Now that google are running MapReduce algos on it for half of East Sussex, it drains in half an hour and sets fire to my pocket :-)
 
meh. For now I'm reasonably sure it's still just a wet dream
mostly because the network overhead is waaaayyy too intense and because the EU has a bare minimum of privacy laws
edge-computing is doable, fog-computing is IMO ethically questionable
 
I'm reasonably sure they won't let it inconvenience actual people. Like maybe "borrowing" 10% CPU.
@MathieuGuindon Should we start a project on AvalonEdit? I'm thinking even a minimal implementation is going to need a tracker?
 
The problem is more that if you're running on my CPU, how do I know that you are not watching what I'm doing on my CPU?
IOW, do you want to donate your CPU to Google?
 
@this I suspect it'll involve encryption and sandboxes.
 
11:17 PM
@mansellan it's not about the inconveniencing people, though...
 
sorry, no dice.
You're in my bedroom. I'm screwed.
 
@this that is one aspect, the other aspect is that sandboxing is abstraction and usually these sandboxes are not hard enough to break out of..
 
@this Uh, they own your OS. You've been screwed for a long time.
 
See, the real security is about absence of access.
 
so watching becomes the least of your concerns
 
11:18 PM
not denial of access.
 
or rather... watching becomes the thing you do as your device is taken over.
 
you can't circumvent if there's nothing to circumvent.
 
Our software is without cost. Just let us use your pc while it's 'idle' so we can make use of the free computation cycles.
 
@IvenBach no, actually, that's not true
and computation cycles are also not free.
 
It's my working assumption that every OS has been owned by some TLA or other. That battle was lost a long time ago.
 
11:19 PM
@mansellan sure
 
TLA?
 
three letter acronyms?
 
aka. nation level actors?
 
yep
sorry, that's a common meme around here :-)
 
the protection against nation level actors is not to open the door and make them tea
 
11:20 PM
Neolithical Legion of Ants
Oh wait, T not N
 
it's make it too bothersome for them to look, but not bothersome enough for them to grow suspicious
 
@Vogel612 sure, but did you see snowden? They've walked in, made tea and are currently relaxing in your hottub. Just how it is.
 
I didn't see snowden and I sure as hell will not do the same for non nation-level actors
 
I'm resigned to the fact that if you want total privacy and nobody in the bedroom, you have to live off grid. Again, the absence of access....
 
assuming your OS is compromised is one thing, opening it for the world is another
 
11:23 PM
@23fc9a62-56de-47fb-97b4-737890 you still there? I may be available in about 45 mins to review my code.
 
Surprisingly, Microsoft did just fine after shipping open-to-world OS for a decade or two...
 
@Vogel612 not disputing that. But I think that governments and OS-owners already have all the access they need.
Maybe with perfect opsec one can make it difficult, but that's all.
 
@mansellan again: why does that want to make you open access to your device for any random person with enough google cloud credit?
 
@Vogel612 Oh sorry. It doesn't. But Google could bury in their EULA that they can use spare compute resources, then sell that compute on the open market. What can you do? Ditch Android, if there's a less obnoxious provider available I guess...
 
android is opensource.
there are free forks out there
 
11:27 PM
Sure, the Play store isn't...
 
there are alternatives...
one of them is to get yourself a UMTS card for your laptop and ditch the phone completely
not that I've done that... it's just too much of a hassle to set up :)
 
My point is, governments and (especially) corporates can do increasingly WTF they want. The fight is over...
We lost.
 
if that were really true, the suicide rate among milennials and younger would probably be a lot higher
 
erm. I'm not sure they give a fig about privacy.
 
Heh, they're too busy posting pictures of their breakfast on Facebook.
 
11:33 PM
^
 
wow ...
I'm rather very miffed about that statement, actually
 
it is increasingly a thing that people can get fired because they talked nasty about their boss on Facebook or Twitter and their boss then read it
I mean..... if they can't see what's wrong with posting that kind of content....
 
@Vogel612 I apologise if that caused offence.
 
@this lemme rephrase that...
It's increasingly a thing that bosses invade the semi-private spaces of their employees on social media.
 
Sorry, I don't agree. In some of cases, the bosses were already friends or following. That requires consent on the part of the party
 
11:36 PM
@this venting on twitter a bit is only a firable offense in countries with crappy labor protection in the first place
 
and if the bosses has to make decisions to fire employees because they're reading the feed, that also speak volume.
the firing is not the point. The point is that they are basically hanging it all out for everyone to see and act surprised that there's consequences.
 
@this for one: that's not necessarily true (e.g. on twitter the followed person is assumed to be consenting to the following)
 
I said some of cases
 
Yep. Governments have wondered for years how to subtly collect information on their citizens. For years, organisation like the EFF have challenged their methods. Now though, people want to tell the world every second of their existance on social media. For the agencies, problem solved!
 
@this that's not strictly true either. There's the concept of parasocial relationships, expanding the sphere of "friends" to very much larger scale than previously known
@mansellan actually, for quite many years they had the problem of filtering that data...
 
11:41 PM
Sure, but the consequences will still come. That's always been the case, even before social media was a thing.
If I bad mouth my boss in wide circle, it'll come around
 
true
 
people should already understand that basic fact and then understand that social media cast much larger circle than otherwise which should mean they should take due responsibiility on what they share.
 
@Vogel612 They have better filters now. Snowden talked of "selectors", which can follow a target through huge swathes of captured big data.
 
Posting their breakfast - cool do what you do like. Posting about their bosses? Are you sure?
 
yea, see device fingerprinting
@this Not every milennial is media-literate :/
so what?
just another indication that the preceding generation failed to lay useful groundwork for them
 
11:43 PM
No argument there.
 
They also alert on meta - not so much what you're saying, but who you're saying it to, and when, ans where. And the same for those contacts. How many steps removed are you from person X? Degrees of separation...
Excuse me, I need to go to my TFH fitting appointment :-)
 
@mansellan yea, so? That's not really a new thing...
TFH?
 
and your generation says mine were too lazy to type.
 
@Vogel612 in Canada that's already proven. That and high anxiety and depression.
 
11:47 PM
welp
 
@Vogel612 Oh. now I feel old...
 
@mansellan you're probably starting to see the fourty showing up in the calendar, right?
 
same here.
 
folks having their midlife crisis with a new porsche and a divorce
 
I wish... 43 :-(
 
11:49 PM
well, maybe not a porsche
 
My point was simply, if you want to minimise invasions of privacy, you should probably avoid donating information on social media.
 
@Vogel612 nah that was the boomers that had their $30K mortgage paid off at 35
 
which some people choose to do and some dont...
@MathieuGuindon you're too young, actually...
my parent's generation fits there...
 
37, got the kids at 30, house at 35
 
@mansellan gratz, you could be my dad. You'd have been quick, but...
 
11:50 PM
lol
 
@Vogel612 well... my daughter is 29 :-)
(adopted)
 
at a tender age of 14?
:D
 
@this a tender age of 19...
 
@Vogel612 ? 43 - 29 = 14
 
I adopted her when she was 18 and I was 32.
 
11:53 PM
@this ohhh. I thought you were talking about me...
 
wow that's quite rare, adopting 18 yrs old
I understand that most adoptions don't happen once a kid get past 2 or 3 years old
 
@this Yep, I'm an odd duck. 22 years between my wife and I.
 
@this unless marrying people with "preexisting conditions kids"
 
um, i took that a bit too literally
I don't think of stepchildren as "adopted"
 
11:55 PM
No, I was her stepdad while she was 5 to 18, then I adopted her.
 
Now I gotcha
 
I assume there is a difference in case of a divorce, huh?
 
@Vogel612 My wife was never married to my daughter's biological father. He abandoned them both when my daughter was one day old.
Go figure...
 
hang on... you're saying he actually waited for the child to be born before pulling the biggest asshole move one can pull?
wow...
 
@Vogel612 Yep
 

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