RELOAD!

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 3 opened issues. 1 closed issue. 10 issue comments.

@M.Doerner Is Carlos' approach working? He deletes the controls, and sets the commandbarcontrol references to Nothing.

[Zomis/FactorioMods] 2 commits. 24 additions. 22 deletions.

Now that I think about it, we do not set the references to null, I think. Might be worth a shot to try that tomorrow.

TTBTB

@M.Doerner night!

@M.Doerner @Mat'sMug perhaps we need to update the version of Ninject?

Come to think of it, I think I saw something on their site that the branch we use has been abandoned or something to that effect. Maybe look into replacing it with something else? If something else even exists?

There's plenty..

..and we need to re-think the IoC configuration anyway. If you branch and implement AutoFac (or whatever) and it works, I'll take the PR.

Ninject isn't the fastest framework, but I like using its API...

it's just some kind of comfort zone for me, I guess. that said I think we should reconsider using the IoC container for the critical COM stuff ...regardless of the DI framework.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame created wiki page VBE Window Messages

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page _Sidebar

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page VBE Window Messages

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page VBE Window Messages

@StackDuck I'll go back to that one tomorrow.. 'night!

Night

Tnx

BTW I'm starting a tutorial :-/ go easy on me

@shadowofsilicon which verison and where may the libraries be located you think?

@M.Doerner may you know that we had to use the COM marshaller to release objects... I remember that Comintern tweaked it to ensure it releases its own garage collection when we create them...and was thinking is there any handling with nulls in there?

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page VBE Window Messages

@PeterMTaylor I know a DJ that has a garage collection ;-)

@ThunderFrame getting rid of which Vinyls? ;)

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page VBE Window Messages

If we change the IoC container, we might as well go with Castle Windsor, which we reference anyway because Moq is using it.

@PeterMTaylor I have no idea. Don't know.

@shadowofsilicon ok thanks.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame edited wiki page VBE Window Messages

Alternatively, we could go with DryIoc, because it is rather fast according to this test.

Looking at the same test, Ninject is really slow.

Question. When I install the most recent Rubberduck (v2.1.2031) and click the about menu I get a version number 2.1.0.9682 - this does not seem to correspond with any previous version :-/

What am I missing this time????

@Mat'sMug has updated the version number in the assembly.

@M.Doerner meaning the version displayed is incorrect?

@SlowLearner I believe that means you're going to see the version number @Mat'sMug has put in there, not the build number that you've currently got installed. I agree, that's a little confusing, especially with the "buildly" releases getting pushed out. I love the simplicity of testing the newest fixes, but remembering what version I'm actually on can be tough sometimes.

No, he updated the hard-coded version in the assembly, which is the number the about box shows. The bulid-number (last four digits) does no match because the installer has the build-number from AppVeyor.

@M.Doerner When I exit an Excel host (without RD loaded), there's a 0x0090 Unknown message (but Google tells me that is WM_UAHDESTROYWINDOW) that occurs just after the WM_PARENTNOTIFY (WM_DESTROY event) messages and just just before the WM_DESTROY message.

That might be our WM_RUBBERDUCKSINKING.

In my test branch, I have removed that already.

Sending this to the main window was a problem because the window might already be destroyed.

We are anyway not doing anything too useful whan recaiving the message.

I didn't have RD loaded - that's a vanilla shutdown

What???

actually, it's the VBE already closed, and then exiting the (Excel) host

Thanks @FreeMan & @M.Doerner - that is somewhat confusing... good to know :)

It is only the pre-release versions.

vanilla = plain (and no fancy add-ins)

I understand that. That should have been WTF.

@SlowLearner I keep track by putting the v# in the filename when I download them. I'm running the newest one unless I'm specifically testing to find out where something broke.

Yup - I hadn't noticed the discrepancy until just now and was all like What???? - I mean WTF. ;-0

If you had looked one week before, the version number in the about box would have been 2.0.14.dddd.

ok - that's me done - night all

g'night!

Does anyone else ever have an issue in the VBE when debugging where you hit F8 to execute one line of code and the thing just takes off running like you hit F5? I've had this with and without RD installed, so it doesn't have anything to do with RD. Just wondering if it's a known issue or I'm just that special...

Funny, they're sunsetting documentation, but I'm still getting points for it... :) I guess not everyone's seen the notice.

@FreeMan I had that a while back. It's probably because you have an add-in that is handling the Application events, and that code is either locked in a protected project or is in a non-VBA add-in.

I just assumed it only happened with certain commands. For example, if I try to do Set Foo = Workbooks.Open(SomePath) or ThisWorkbook.FollowHyperlink(SomeFilePath) my code runs off on me.

@SlowLearner AppVeyor builds are Major.Minor.Build, with the Build portion being a sequential number incremented in the cloud. Local builds are Major.Minor.Revision.Build, with the Build portion being whatever value the compiler decides to use. As far as version is concerned, anything in this cycle (until next manual release off [master]) is 2.1.0 - rest is irrelevant.

@ThunderFrame huh - I'll take a look at that. Thanks!

@Mat'sMug If reporting bugs in a [next] build, the build number could be relevant, could it not?

i.e. most people, if they're going to report the v.buildID in their issue, would look at the about box to find it.

@FreeMan the AppVeyor build# is more relevant for pre-releases; they tie back 1-to-1 with a specific PR, which links to specific commits, which link to specific issues. the MSBuild build# says nothing whatsoever. there is absolutely no possibility of having the AppVeyor build# in the about box.

@Mat'sMug ah well...

for a green release off [master], the AppVeyor build# would be irrelevant, but the about box would say 2.1.0.[whatever-we-dont-care], and that's all we need to know.

@ThunderFrame Hrm... RD is the only add-in I've got, and the only references are to MS libraries.

#ClickBait

@Mat'sMug That's funny! Sadly made up, but funny!

@Hosch250 Do you mind if I give you my input on car/money stuff?

It sounds like you have a solid plan and I know cars and money can be touchy subjects, so I don't want to insert myself anywhere I'm not welcome.

@puzzlepiece87 You are welcome to.

@FreeMan See the Bill Gates Rocks in the comments?

Hi, @NelsonCasanova.

This morning is slow.

Waiting for a meeting so I can start rewriting a huge section of code.

A 690-line method.

I think by the time I'm done, it will be over 1k lines, including all the new class definitions and stuff, but it will also be a bit more maintainable and testable.

@Hosch250 v

LOL

It was moved to chat.

@FreeMan I've gotten that in vanilla Excel, usually when I'm using stuff like FSO.

@BrandonBarney @FreeMan This was my assumption too, and Workbooks.Open() is another way it has happened to me.

@puzzlepiece87 interesting - I'm using FSO in that code. I'd never made that connection. I'll keep an eye on it.

@Hosch250 Okay, so first of all, I know car quality reputation is usually a bunch of propaganda, but I've heard differently than you on which manufacturers are best - I've heard the best things about Japanese cars.

@FreeMan There's an easy work-around: just shift-F8 to the next line rather than F8 for single-line execution.

@Hosch250 Speaking of GM in particular, they just settled another lawsuit for not disclosing issues with their vehicles. I personally don't want to deal with that kind of dishonesty if possible. Hopefully it's not an every-company's-doing-it sort of thing.

@Hosch250 If you havent checked it out, try CarGurus. You can find a dealership that is already at a good price, and then drive them down a bit more that way. I recently bought a used 2014 (33k miles) mustang for 3k under market value without having to negotiate at all.

@Hosch250 nytimes.com/2017/04/24/business/…

> Over the last few years General Motors has paid out more than $2 billion in fines, penalties and settlements related to faulty ignition switches that plagued many of its vehicles for close to a decade, a flaw that led to vast recalls and at least 124 deaths.

@Hosch250 Okay, so that's the manufacturer topic.

@Hosch250 Ha! No, I rarely follow the "moved to chat" links. Also:

@Hosch250 Moving on to finances - car dealerships don't like it when you pay in cash. So don't expect to get concessions from them there. You are taking money away from them when you do that. I definitely would keep your strategy to not tell them about that until you are ready to pay. But if you expect to use that to get from acceptable price to preferred price, you will be disappointed.

@Hosch250 Car dealerships literally tack on a half percent or whatever to what some bank is willing to offer, and then sell the loan on to the bank. You're taking away their half percent.

@puzzlepiece87 I actually disagree on that. While they may be making less, money talks. If you've ever heard of Dave Ramsey (very well-known financial expert) he actually recommends just having the cash in your hand as an incentive to get them down on prive.

price*

@Hosch250 And then I know @shadowofsilicon was happy with his 1.9% APR on not-so-great credit, but if you go to the bank beforehand, you could literally be pre-approved for 1.4% or whatever in his case, go to the dealership, get the car, and not need their financing.

@BrandonBarney Dave Ramsay's specialty is getting people out of debt, so I'm not surprised to here he recommends cash in hand, but I hear what you're saying.

When it comes to negotiation, his opponent is the salesman. Whatever gets the salesman to sign off is what will get him the car. Besides, if cash doesnt work at dealer A, there's dealers B-Z waiting and ready.

@BrandonBarney Unfortunately, no matter what Dave says, the money is simple to follow.

@Hosch250 So yes, go to a bank and get pre-approved for a loan, even though you want to pay in cash. Especially because:

Again, it depends on the person. Yes, of course, when you analyze the data at a large scale you will see those small human behaviors slowly trickle out. He doesnt need to change the average of all the data. He needs to get it to work for him.

@Hosch250 Topic #3: your spending priorities.

@Hosch250 You say you want to save for a car, house, then retirement. That makes intuitive sense, but it's unfortunately wrong.

@Hosch250 Retirement should be first, for two reasons: employer matching, which is often 50% free money. And the returns on investment in your retirement vehicle exceed car loan and house loan rates.

@puzzlepiece87 Assuming he pays for the car with a loan, when he has said he wants to pay in cash...and multiple analysts show that buying a house is the #1 path to increasing one's wealth.

@Hosch250 Then you should do mortgage, but ONLY if 1. You're ready to live in the house for at least 5 years (I'm guessing you're probably not ready to do that yet - you're single and starting your first post-school job) and 2. Only save enough for the down payment and minimum monthly payments.

Besides, it also depends on his company's retirement plan. His company could offer a really good retirement package he doesnt need to contribute more to.

@Hosch250 - having purchased quite a few used vehicles over the last 10 years (I've got 3 kids driving now), you'll get far better value for money if you can buy from a private seller than from a dealership. You'll have to do a better job of inspecting the car and, possibly take it to a dealership & pay out of pocket for a pre-sale inspection, or bring a "car guy" friend whom you trust along with you.

@Hosch250 And then finally car, where the rates are the lowest. You could be using the same money to get 5% gains in your retirement vehicle instead of saving 1.9% (hypothetically, whatever your rate actually is) on car loans.

I've got a good friend of mine who I brought along to take a look at a car. We walked up to the guy selling it and almost before the "Hello", my friend asked "What was the damage from the accident?" He could tell from 20 feet by the swirls in the paint on the hood that it had been repainted. Of course, he worked in auto-body & high-end custom paint for about 10-years... :)

@BrandonBarney That sounds very vague and doesn't actually say any mechanics behind your advice. Which is fine, but I like mine better :P

I'm out of the finances advice business now. Far too personal and contentious.

@BrandonBarney That often assumes bubble-style real-estate appreciations....

@BrandonBarney That doesn't make sense though. You're literally saying to invest away from the best vehicle by return.

What I mean, is if you are looking at the behaviors of dealerships at the larger scale (the generalized scale) then yes, you do see the average dealer becoming less-likely to take cash as an incentive due to their cut. The problem with that perspective though, is that at the large scale you normalize anomalies, so those dealers who are willing to take cash as an incentive all but disappear. The problem with data is that it can mask human behavior to the point that you forget it exists.

Hosch just needs to find the dealer willing to make that deal. And it is possible.

@puzzlepiece87 Again, looking at the data, the trend has held almost fully-true (with exception of the housing crisis). Further, if you are not owning your home, but paying rent, you are literally throwing money out the window (unless you are a very good investor in which case you can almost make the same returns over a 30 year period with the difference between avg. mortgage compared to avg. rent).

@BrandonBarney That doesn't make nearly enough sense to me. What I understand from what you're saying is: "I don't have any reason why a dealership would prefer cash, and salesmen are all versed in how the dealership makes money as part of their training, but somehow Hosch will pressure an individual salesman into preferring cash."

@puzzlepiece87 Because, while most dealerships may be well versed, it is always possible to find the guy willing to make a deal at that moment. It happens all the time, especially depending on the dealer.

@BrandonBarney I think you're conflating a salesman's desire to not want Hosch to walk away, which is a desire to keep him there, with a preference for cash, which he doesn't have. He just is willing to take his dispreference on finances so that Hosch doesn't walk away.

@BrandonBarney Also, I'm extremely skeptical in expecting a first time car buyer to magically trick a car salesman into anything that the buyer wouldn't have gotten already.

@BrandonBarney Also, your arguments make more sense if Hosch had some benefit to paying with cash, but I strongly suspect he doesn't.

@puzzlepiece87 A retirement account certainly isnt the best vehicle on return. There are plenty of other investment opportunities out there there are better than a retirement account. Few get rich on a retirement account. You are far more likely to make money off of actual, targeted investment. But beyond that, it requires an actual desire to do so. I would much rather enjoy the car I drive, and the house I own, than putting money into an account that will eventually be accessible.

All the while, I have an investment account that is growing reasonably well.

@BrandonBarney Can you give an example? I want to make sure I understand.

@puzzlepiece87 Again, you're assuming the salesman will be exactly like all the other salesman you are collecting your data from. The worst that can happen, again, is Hosch tries and ends up walking away.

> I would much rather enjoy the car I drive, and the house I own, than putting money into an account that will eventually be accessible.

@M.Doerner Is that good one to use for our application? I agree that the fact that a dependency already uses it gives it extra points for consideration... but I suggest that alternatives be researched first.

@puzzlepiece87 I mean it too. My investment account from my employer is already growing, and it is managed privately. Meanwhile, my wife and I are making investments on a home we have a mortgage for, and I have a car I dont have to work on every few months.

@BrandonBarney ^ This is a perfectly valid preference: "I want to enjoy life rather than save for my financial future." I support you in your preference! But it doesn't equal good financial advice. You're explicitly saying you're disregarding your financial optimal outcome. Which again, is fine.

Alternatively, by your mindset, I could funnel ~600/month into an account that I can use when I am 65.

No, you're confusing your financial advice for a good financial outcome. A managed portfolio, generally, will have higher returns than a retirement account.

@BrandonBarney Overall it seems like you are a pretty intuitive thinker and that you are preferring other things over financial outcome - which is great, I'm happy for you. :)

@Hosch250 My mindset is definitely more analytically-inclined, so that's where mine comes from. You may prefer @BrandonBarney 's style, it depends on your feelings and wishes for the present/future. It's a lot to weigh :)

I don't like to have loans.

@BrandonBarney Yes, at higher costs and a lower net return.

@Hosch250 That's totally fine - if you're not comfortable with loans, don't have loans :)

@Hosch250 That's a great preference too and @BrandonBarney agrees :)

And I've been looking around, and I'd probably have to pay 3% or higher on a loan because I don't have credit.

@puzzlepiece87 Put it like this: if a retirement account was the #1 way to get a return on your funds why would anyone in their right mind put any money into shorter term investments? By your approach, I should just slowly trickle money into an account and wait for it to give me a return. It works, but it doesnt work quickly.

There's obviously no best approach, because you could invest and die tomorrow, or you could invest and be miserable when you could have been happy.

@ThunderFrame I can confirm this behavior. For me, Excel crashes on exit when closing the VBE window, then quitting Excel from inside Excel. Although; I wonder I the same thing happens when I close the VBE then wait a minute before quitting Excel...

@BrandonBarney Short-term investment is widely discouraged....

Instead, there are plenty of investors out there who make money by making good,smart investments that pay on a shorter term, and then they reinvest that money.

And I am not saying discard a retirement plan. I am saying to use a wider spread of investments and strategies.

Long-term investment is safer, but I can't work without a car, and I can't have money without working.

@BrandonBarney If they are frequency traders and willing to pay with their time (if they're investing for themselves) or their customers' money in the form of fees (if they work at a financial firm).

@puzzlepiece87 By short term I mean 5-10 year investments. A retirement plan (at my age) is a ~40 year term.

I figure buying a car, then a house close to work, then pouring everything into a retirement fund should be good.

I figure if I don't have a loan, I should be able to put nearly half my take-home income into a retirement fund.

@Hosch250 No, you definitely have to have a car, and having a house is better than renting. My advice is not to skip a car or a house, but to make minimum payments on them after you have them, to the extent you are comfortable.

It isn't like I need a house on a lake, or anything.

@Hosch250 Good for you. To me, that makes sense.

@Hosch250 I am glad those will make you happy :)

@puzzlepiece87 Yeah, and keep making payments if I lose my job...

@Hosch250 Nasty thing about home loans - you have to keep making minimum payments even if you pay early.

@Hosch250 So you're basically counting on being able to pay off the whole house at once, or you'd need to make minimum payments and save extra separately.

@Hosch250 Also, I didn't mention this because I figured if you're thinking about paying for a car with cash you have this covered, but a 6-9 month emergency fund comes even before retirement contributions.

@puzzlepiece87 I'm counting on being able to pay about 75% of it in cash.

Not having a 6-9 month emergency fund gets very expensive, very quickly.

@Hosch250 Makes sense :) So most of my advice doesn't fit your preferences, but one thing that does - for that last 25%, get pre-approved from a bank rather than getting a loan from the dealership.

@puzzlepiece87 No, that's the house.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on getting a loan from the dealership.

Unless I can get the 0% interest rate for so many months because I just graduated, or whatever.

@Hosch250 Good luck!

@Hosch250 Thanks for giving me space to share with you :)

Well, thanks for the advice. It is something to consider, at any rate.

@Hosch250 I don't think it matches your preferences so don't do it :)

@Hosch250 Do what makes you happy first, and then look at return rates if you become more comfortable with debt in the future :)

@Hosch250 I think @puzzlepiece87's advice is good. If I was in you position and had to do everything over again:

Damn return key.

@Hosch250 But don't miss out on any company retirement matching at least. I swear you'll never find 50% return again in your life.

Definitely.

@Mat'sMug @ThunderFrame What's your impression of Jamal, CR mod, if you have any?

And do either of you hang out in SQL tags?

@puzzlepiece87 Big editor, good mod.

First, max out your retirement contribution. Do it yesterday lol. At least max out your employer's matching contribution, if any. Second, strongly consider future purchases, e.g. a mortgage AND a emergency fund. Third, take your fistful of cash and strategically go loan shopping. Many will lower interest rates if you pay a large portion as a down payment...

@Hosch250 Consider getting the car loan, even at 3% and even if you can pay cash. Then, make double or triple payments to pay it off in a year or so. It will cost you some in interest, but the good credit history will save you money when you get a loan for a house, even if you're only borrowing 25% of the cost of the house.

At the dealer, act like you're undecided on a purchase and keep it that way. Do you purchase over several trips, mention you're thinking about a competing brand, model, etc. Do it over a few trips over a week or two... Make them work for it.

@puzzlepiece87 single most devoted-to-site-quality CR user IMO. has been for years. excellent moderator, been one since late 2013, appointed by Stack Exchange community team, and then elected in the 2015 elections. why?

carp. I was supposed to be out of the financial advice business... :(

@shadowofsilicon If I can get them to go down 1k, I'd be satisfied.

This dealership is already listing the cars lower than the KBB says the fair market value is.

@FreeMan Oh yes, I completely forgot about credit rating. This is SO important.

By a few thousand.

750 of that I can get because I just graduated this year if I buy before Jan 2.

@Mat'sMug Jamal commented on my question and I was just seeing where they were coming from. I assumed the best :)

If you get a good loan offer, consider a combination of 1) a large down payment (no interest paid on that) 2) save enough to make double payments / keep minimum payments small enough just in case of life events (and remember, you always have to make payments over the life of the loan)

@Hosch250 also check edmunds.com and nadaguides.com All 3 will give you different prices. The dealerships use NADAs commercial services (and I'm pretty convinced they list different values there than on their retail side), but they're all well known and will give you some leverage.

@Mat'sMug I'm glad CR has such a good mod.

But... if you get a loan, you build credit, which a mortgage company will certainly want to see on your credit report. Vehicle loans are prob the best indicator besides a previous mortgage to them

GTG hop on a plane...

See you.

Well, if you guys are saying I should get a small loan, maybe I should buy within a couple weeks. I could wipe out my savings on half the car, pay the other half off within a year.

If I poured everything into it, I could pay it off within about 3 months, really.

@Hosch250 wouldn't recommend wiping out savings. Leave yourself something. Even newer cars sometimes need expensive repairs... as do bodies sometimes.

hopes @Hosch250 listens better than his eldest son did...

@FreeMan Don't have an eldest son yet, so I don't know how well he listens.

/jk

yeah. no matter how I wrote that it was open to intentional misinterpretation. sigh...

@FreeMan Did he get hurt overseas?

No, no, he's fine, thanks for asking! He just prefers to make all his own mistakes. I told him he won't live long enough to make them all. He's getting better about learning from others...

TTFN...

@FreeMan Agreed, you should absolutely have 6-12 months of emergency savings, just in case. Maybe you already have that. Just making sure.

You could get hit by a truck bus tomorrow.

Have $8k. Just spent $2k on a college class.

So, no, not 6-12 months.

@Hosch250 Yeah, then I'd strongly advise against overpaying your car loan. But again, your happiness does take precedent.

Not really.

@Hosch250 Meta comment on life? :P

I just don't like loans, but I'll talk to my mom. She's really good with money.

@Hosch250 I'm glad you have people you can lean on :)

@Mat'sMug the comments disappeared without feedback, so I'm not sure - did I stumble into a briarpatch by accident? Have separate SQL Server version tags been discussed endlessly before?

@puzzlepiece87 NAFAIK.

no, but these comments were obsolete and if a discussion about SQL tags needs to happen, it belongs on meta, not under some CR question - I removed them.

@Mat'sMug Makes sense, thanks. Just making sure I'm picking up on as much community norms and history as I can. Please thank Jamal for me :)

#RookiesAndOptimization

1. make it work. ... 3. make it fast. in that order

@Mat'sMug My code is fast. It just returns null.

@Hosch250 I'm glad all the power hasn't gone to @Mat'sMug head. He's responsible with it.

@Hosch250 Do you have student loans? If you do, those can actually help your credit considerably. It wont improve your history as much (since they likely wont have years of good payments) but they can increase your overall score.

Nope.

Well crap on that then lol.

I mean, good for you, but no *free*(expensive) credit boost.

I payed for half my college through grade-based scholarships.

My parents payed the other half.

Thats awesome

@Hosch250 The best debt-free way of building a credit score is to have a credit card you use for every purchase and auto-pay every month. It sounds like that might be a good fit for you.

If I could dump my school debt I would do so in a heartbeat lol.

Planning on paying them back at some point (it'll help them out in their retirement), but that won't help my score any.

@puzzlepiece87 That's what I'm doing, except I manual-pay every 15 days.

@Hosch250 You're a harder worker than me :D

@Hosch250 That will be a good help.

I pay for gas, textbooks, and an occasional puppy toy.

@Hosch250 It's more about regular, on-time payments than amount, though amount helps too. Sounds like you're getting that in :)

I want to know what I did in my past life to deserve this :/

This code is awesome, to say the least.

Not too hard to turn it into idiomatic C# with R#.

It's just turning it into idiomatic OOP that's a little tricky.

Ohhhh....

double.Parse(...ToDouble().ToString())

Oh my gosh. A loop that doesn't loop.

It's last statement is a break.

And there are absolutely 0 tests.

#enough

@Hosch250 WTFs per minute?

the only reliable measurement of code quality

@Mat'sMug I've still a ways to go before contributing substantively. I'll get more RD once summer comes to a close.

Form filled out.

@shadowofsilicon Glad to know there's another duck learning C# along with me.

welcome to type safety!

It makes me really miss the simplicity of VBA arrays lol.

Just getting to this array actually working was its own ordeal.

    If i Mod 30 = 0 Then
        openform = DoEvents
    End If

wait, DoEvents is a function????

Wtf?

@BrandonBarney There will be more that goes with that.

What is its returntype?

@IvenBach I cant wait... someone please kill me

lol

Wouldn't the return type just be int?

There is a small part of me that wants to just go for it in VB.NET instead in the hope that it will be easier, but then I would never be able to do anything for RD lol.

@BrandonBarney probably a variant. question is, wtf does it return??

That was the next part of the "What is it's type?" question lol.

@BrandonBarney VB.NET without Imports Microsoft.VisualBasic is pretty much C# with an ugly bulky syntax

msdn.microsoft.com/VBA/Language-Reference-VBA/articles/…

@Mat'sMug Good to know. Ill stick with C# then lol

Also, DoEvents returns the number of open forms.

So it is marginally useful I guess :)

dafuq

@BrandonBarney also with Imports Microsoft.VisualBasic it's pretty much VB6/VBA... which defeats the purpose of trying to learn .net

Yeah. Not to mention C# tends to be more sought after than VB.NET.

a lil' bit

I'm still stuck on the exact reason why DoEvents even needs to return the number of forms open. Shouldnt there just be a separate function that explicitly is named for that? GetOpenVBProjectForms or something?

Who the hell would innately know that DoEvents actually is DoEventsAndGetForms

^^^^

#ItsJustMicrosoft I guess.

@puzzlepiece87 Gotta watch out for the bus factor.

@Mat'sMug That's come to mean so much more after seeing the RD discussion regarding features and issues.

@BrandonBarney I'm guessing that was part of the documentation that was planned.

@IvenBach That's a slightly different thing.

lol

@BrandonBarney Us.

@Hosch250 I mean while coding, not after researching it in the documentation, but point well taken :).

@BrandonBarney I mean we will know it while coding now.

Very true

if "return value is never used" inspection applied to call sites, we might have picked that one up a while ago

I still think we should write a C# IDE integrated as closely as possible with Office.

FML

Then, MS will look at it and hire us to integrate it really properly.

pfft. rewrite VSTO yourself, buddy

Hehe.

;-)

And then, when he actually manages to do it somehow, it will be obsolete anyways.

Nah, it'll replace VBA.

I'd be all for it. Go forth. Conquer. We'll watch.

Trying to fix a bug I can't reproduce.

grabs popcorn

I've been working on it for an hour.

I don't have access to Prod, which is a good thing, but I can't reproduce it in Stage.

Or on my local.

@Hosch250 Haha, you guys and your 'local' and 'staging' development areas. So cute. ;)

@EBrown You develop in Prod?

We have a Dev area too.

@Hosch250 Only when I have to. So all the time.

I'd jump ship.

Sometimes we even edit the .aspx files on the production server.

I don't want to be responsible for millions of dollars.

@EBrown Eeeek!

@Hosch250 It's not that bad, we have three devs and are usually on very disparate sections of the project. We're also working on setting up a pre-prod area that can be used primarily, until the feature is done and can be moved to prod.

I hope you are using Git.

We just started doing so, actually, right after I started.

Whoever wrote TFS effectively shot the world in the foot.

I like TFS more than Git.

Can we swap jobs?

Just kidding. This job is good enough that I can put up with TFS.

@Hosch250 Only if you want a 10% or so pay-cut.

And to live in this wonderful city.

@Hosch250 No student loans? Excellent! You won't get affected by the pending student loan financial crisis (the outlook is worse than the mortgage crisis of 2008/9.) But, that means you have NO credit. :/

@EBrown I'll bite, which wonderful city is that?

@FreeMan Toledo, Ohio.

It's actually not that wonderful.

oh. I'm sorry...

But, you've got the Mud Hens!

Yeah right.

LOL

You're not nearby are you?

^ What's the proper name of these? Tabs?

@IvenBach Yes, tabs.

What's the container name?

@puzzlepiece87 Yeah that's an understatement, we write our code in production most of the time.

Multi-tab container?

You can do those tab things with Bootstrap.

@IvenBach Tab-Container usually describes it adequately.

Is there a more technical name for it in C#?

@puzzlepiece87 Speaking of, I'm about to test a file I just modified for production.

@IvenBach In what sense? I believe the Windows Forms control is a GroupBox or something.

@IvenBach I was way off, it's called a TabControl in Windows Forms.

I prefer to know the correct term instead of my cave-man terms for it 'Thing you can click at the top'

@IvenBach I just call it "the magic boxes that change what's on that section of screen".

@EBrown I approve

@IvenBach I literally got that description (except that I added 'magic') from a user having problems with their computer at work.

@EBrown We don't test in production exactly here (we have test and dev environments, UAT regimes, the works), but since I'm the lone automation expert and there's tons to do, I often get to delegate testing to the analysts :)

Yeah. Describing what something is only leads to 'WTF you talking about?' expressions from others. Using the correct name or one very similar to it helps to transmit ideas a lot better.

You-know-that-one-thing-that-does-the-other-thing doesn't get much help with tech.

@IvenBach I work with end users so frequently I've learned their lingo.

I can't always use that lingo with the RD group.

I'm sure @Mat'sMug had some 'WTF he talking about' moments when I try to explain stuff.

So x = If(y, z) is invalid in VB.NET 2008? Seems weird.

@EBrown wtf is that supposed to be?

gosh I hate VB

@Mat'sMug So in VB.NET (not sure why it's not working on this page) you can do If(a, b) which is basically If(a IsNot Nothing, a, b).

So If(a, b) is the same as C# a ?? b.

And If(a, b, c) is the same as C# a ? b : c.

oh ffs

Yeah, it's apparently not supported in the (old) version of VB.NET that this website is using.

Good. It's old, but at least it's readable.

What's that supposed to mean? Lol

Dim email As Object = DBNull.Value
If Not String.IsNullOrEmpty(txtEmail.Text) Then
    email = txtEmail.Text
End If

I could simply do Dim email As Object = If(CObj(txtEmail.Text), DBNull.Value) instead, but not with this version of VB.NET.

I'd make it a one-liner

@EBrown Indianapolis

@FreeMan Oh that's not far at all.

@Mat'sMug I might, I have to get some of this cleaned up before I'm done anyway.

@EBrown 3.5 hrs driving. Or... You could take the bus to Chicago then the train to Toledo in only 8.5 hrs! (it took a minute to realize what the heck google maps was doing with a route through Chicago...)

FormValidation?

@ThunderFrame @PeterMTaylor Exaggerating, but on today's episode of Australia Will Kill You, sea fleas: arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/…

@BrandonBarney Does FormValidation allow the use of multiple forms as can be seen on the left-hand side?

It was a wild guess lol. I just have seen FormValidation (or something like that) in other places. You would need to see if that control is the actual one you need.

But, if the same process is used in C#, there would be some kind of event for trying to navigate to the next form that would only successfully run if the first form validates properly.

@EBrown You have any end-user-nameisms for that one?

@IvenBach The add node wizard? A lot of times they just say "I can't get past this screen". In my experience most users refer to form sections as "screens".

@IvenBach Usually I use 'Section', where there's a 'Section Validation' and a 'Section Selector' (left panel).

Thanks. Any help to get me to the correct name is needed.

I'll investigate for a while.