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21:41
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A: Is it legal for a train company to create an art gallery using photographs of the graffiti on their locomotives and train cars?

Dale MNo You are conflating two different ownership concepts: the art in which the copyright exists, and the artwork that is the expression of the art (my terminology). The artist owns the art, the train company owns the artwork. Copyright exists in an artistic or literary work as soon as it is fixed i...

This answer conflates the two different concepts of art, and vandalism. The person creating the graffiti is a vandal, creatively arranged photographs of the resulting vandalism could be marketed by the owner as "art". Consider your car window smashed with a brick - if you took a photograph in the right lighting conditions you might consider the interplay of light to be artful, but that doesn't give the brick wielder copyright protection over the damage they caused.
@MichaelHall Please provide a statute or case law that says copyright does not attach to works done without permission. I think you are inventing law here.
@user71659, Please provide a statute or case law that says property damage is copyrightable art. Because any claim that it is defies conventional wisdom and equally invents law.
Lag
Lag
@MichaelHall if statute or case law doesn't exclude such work then it isn't excluded...
@Lag, where is the line drawn though? If I throw a brick through your living room window is that copyrightable? Does the answer change if I call it performance art? What if I paint obscenities on your garage door? Copyrightable art?
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@MichaelHall look up the copyright status of Banksy's work. Nowhere does anyone argue that the circumstances of its creation are relevant. Obscenities on the garage door are a literary work if they are sufficiently substantial and creative. They could also be a graphic work.
@phoog, will doing so clarify where the line is drawn?
@MichaelHall doing so will clarify that there is no line relating to the circumstances of a work's creation. Whether there is copyright depends only on the nature of the work itself.
@phoog, but what then is "work"? Because the term implies there is some value in the result, and that is purely subjective...
@MichaelHall The point is that the copyrightability of a brick hurled through your window is the same whether it is with permission or without. Simple as that. News footage of riots is certainly copyrightable.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that last comment...
21:41
@MichaelHall the subjective question of what is work comes before courts frequently. If you write a couple of words on my garage door, there's no literary work, but if you do it decoratively it is a work of visual art. If you write an original sonnet on the garage door, that is a literary work and, if you do it decoratively, it is also a work of visual art. This is true regardless of whether I gave you permission.
@user71659 "News footage of riots is certainly copyrightable" I fail to see how this is relevant. Of course it is copyrightable, but I could take footage of the same riot with my camera and your copyright would have no bearing on my footage. By the same token, you could take a picture of graffiti and copywrite that picture, but I could take another picture of it and your copywrite would have no bearing on it.
@GlenYates I agree that the news footage example is poor, but the rest of your comment seems off. In most jurisdictions, copyright is not something you have to do or claim - it is something you have automatically (the right to copy your own creative work). If you take a picture of a graffiti, then you are making a copy of that graffiti; if a court rules that it is a creative work, its creator may refuse you the right to distribute that copy. Your picture may also be in itself a creative work (a derivative work), so you might also be able to refuse others making copies of that.
@GlenYates (Also, not sure if it was just an autocomplete glitch, but "copywrite" is a completely unrelated term from "copyright".)
@MichaelHall, what would copyright protection over the damage mean in practice? Reports to your insurance company / the police / etc would certainly be fair use; I don't see how it's an absurd or harmful result if copyright does attach, unless someone actually profits off that copyright, and many jurisdictions have other non-copyright-related means to recoup or address profits related to criminal actions.

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