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12:00 AM
I swear a lot more outside of here also, I try to avoid swearing in here :p
@bobble Ok, now I had to Google what “stimming” means lol
New term to add to my “intelligent sounding but actually really boring” word bank
Stimming is something anxious people or people on the spectrum do sometimes, either to calm down from being stressed or when they're relaxed and deeply focused on something, like hand movements, touching soft things, and rocking. (It's different from tics, which are usually involuntary and not fun.)
I have both! lucky me?
12:04 AM
Everyone kinda has their own stim, it's unique to each person :)
Funnily enough, hand-flapping is both a tic and a stim. Though when it's a tic usually I'm standing still, and the stim is running around in circles while flapping
end of Sciborg PSA
@Sciborg Every day, millions of children go without stimming even once. With your generosity, we can help change that.
There's also misconceptions around stims because back in the day, scientists told parents to stop the person from stimming, but actually it's a great calming mechanism and you should always let them do it to calm themselves down. Making them stop is scary for them and makes it worse.
And now the PSA is over :p
I have some under-the-table stims for exactly that situation. Mostly feet-jiggling and adjusting my watch back and forth.
12:08 AM
You have the watch-fiddling one too! :D
I keep it just loose enough to go up and down my wrist, as will as around and around
I literally wear a watch just so I can fiddle with it when I need something to do with my hands. I never use it to tell time
by the way, did you need a poke on #14?
Yes, I very much need a poke
send help
give picture so I can remember?
12:10 AM
it's this one
ooh, I remember this
The last one with all white circles was fine because I could place a cube right away. But this one is crazy.
okay, so where can Os and Ss go?
Os can go in 5 places, and Ss can go in a lot of places
How about general regions? Can you identify some regions where Os and Ss can go?
12:12 AM
They overlap pretty strongly
As in, when I place an O, it removes some of the S spots
how many regions can you identify?
That might be helpful
for Os and Ss?
if either would work, include the region in your counting
by 3, i meant these 3
can you identify a 4th region where only an S can go?
12:16 AM
the one over there
okay, and each region can only hold 1 piece, right?
@bobble Hang on, just so that I’m fully understanding what’s going on, this is Statue Park with tetrominos?
oh, i see where you're going with this
@HTM double-tetro
Yes, this is Statue Park with double tetrominos
I getcha bobble, I getcha
12:18 AM
Can you see the next step in the global deduction?
or will you need another poke?
no poke, then
i got this
you got this
@bobble So 2x the number of pieces? And (looking back at the chat transcript), Z is S and L is J so there’s only 10 pieces to place?
12:18 AM
yep, reflection & rotation allowed
"only" they say
Beats having to work with those crazy pentomino shapes
once you graduate to full pentominoes, there are 12!
(they give you some partial-pentomino puzzles before that, to get you used to the shapes)
listen, i'm just a little baby bird who smashes into windows
you are now triumphantly flying away from the window!
12:22 AM
ah drat, Jeremy's new hint invalidates my group
mincing oaths?
Also-Ran connect-wall
Thanks bobble. I'm running on low attention lately.
you should do what I do: mash everything up with polyominoes! polyominoes make everything better
12:27 AM
CCCC: Weapon of underworld boss, crooked and full of base desires (6)
'borg, are you still flying, or has a window appeared in front of you?
I'm doing great! uh, I think
Famous last words
Talking about our watches has made me fiddle with my watch this entire time :p
I'm doing my hair-twirling for the most part, though I'm also been chewing on it a bit
12:31 AM
Regarding the discussion of slang, abbreviations, etc., a bit earlier -- to me "cf." is kinda the opposite of slang; I would expect to see it in rather formal contexts, along with other Latinate abbreviations like "qv.", "loc. cit.", and the like. If, e.g., I saw "cf." and "lol" in the same sentence that would feel to me like an abrupt gear-change.
That's fair. I probably haven't read enough formal literature for cf. to be a familiar construct to me.
slang/abbreviations: anything that isn't a regular, full word is difficult for my brain
(I guess "e.g." is also a Latinate abbreviation, but not so much so, because it's more commonly used. I assume practically everyone knows at least roughly what "e.g.", "i.e.", and "etc." mean, but I wouldn't make the same assumption about "cf.".
Difficult in the same way as an unfamiliar word that you need to look up (or guess the meaning of from context), or in a different way?
You mentioned finding "lol" troublesome. If it had never been an abbreviation, and was just introduced as a word people use to express amusement, would that have made it easier?
Difficult as in it takes me longer to read, pulls me out of the text, and forces everything else happening in my brain to halt until I parse the abbreviation
(feel free not to answer such questions if they're too intrusive or if you just have other more interesting things to do, of course)
12:34 AM
@GarethMcCaughan yes. Word-concept mapping is easy for me, "word"-words-concept mapping is difficult
Interesting. I take it that for some reason you can't just pretend "lol" is simply a weird word and was never an abbreviation, and deal with it that way?
I'm unable to skim an abbreviation, would be a shorter way of saying it
(Are you bothered by, say, "laser" and "radar"? Those started out as abbreviations but scarcely anyone thinks of them that way now.)
@GarethMcCaughan Nope, since it was introduced as an abbreviation I stick to it
"laser" and "radar" are fine because I found out they were abbreviations after mapping word->concept
The extra step before getting to the concept/meaning is the main roadblock here.
Is it that when you see, say, "lol" you can't treat it as just a new word because your brain insists on reminding you "those are three letters: L, O, L, standing for Laughing Out Loud" and it distracts you from just reading the sentence?
12:39 AM
(And, if so, have I just caused you future trouble by telling you that "laser" and "radar" are abbreviations? Or would I if I also told you what they stand for?)
sorry if so
I know that they're abbreviations, and as I said it's fine because I've already mapped "radar" to the concept of radar, and not "radar" to Radio Detection And Ranging (I think that's it?) and then Radio Detection And Ranging to the concept of radar
Dang, this conversation is really interesting, I’ve never really had any problems with abbreviations (once I figure out what they mean the first time around). Turns out it’s not that straightforward for everyone
So do you have any idea what the obstacle is to installing a direct mapping from "lol" to something like "I am amused", alongside the indirect one via "laughing out loud"?
12:42 AM
(for the avoidance of doubt, I am expecting the answer to be "no" and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, though obviously it's inconvenient for you)
One thing that does work is just skipping the word. I don't get the full meaning of the sentence, but normally I can parse the overall meaning without having to remind myself that "lol" = Laughing Out Loud.
@HTM I agree it's very interesting. Brains are strange things. (@bobble my apologies if it feels a bit too much as if you are a specimen being dissected right now)
nah, it's fine
I found this conversation equally fascinating.
The problem with my "skipping" method is if the abbreviation turns out to be integral to the sentence's meaning, and then I have to go and re-read the whole sentence to get context, along with screeching-halting to process the abbreviation.
12:47 AM
Does this sort of thing happen outside of online spaces? Like, if I were to ask you how to calculate the KE of a moving object or what AP courses you’re taking, do you have any trouble parsing the meaning?
I learned "AP" as a word before learning that is was an abbreviation, but "KE" will make me back up and think "Kinetic Energy"
@GarethMcCaughan nice solve for the last CCCC :)
apparently my brain is fascinating :D
Q: All values in a 5x5 Super Minesweeper grid

Dmitry KamenetskyIn a Super™ Minesweeper grid each cell is either a mine or a value. A value in row $r$ and column $c$ represents the total number of mines located in row $r$ or column $c$. Can you fill a 5x5 Super™ Minesweeper grid with mines such that every number from 0 to 6 appears at least once? Good luck!

Q: 5x5 suko puzzle

00xxqhxx00 Okay, an easy one. From 1 to 25, without repetition, what is the number in the cell r2c4?

12:50 AM
@bobble This is the sort of stuff that advances our understanding of neuroscience y’know :)
I think this is just a reminder that my brain isn't like everyone's brain, and that it's important to remember that and respect other people's brains :)
(for another thing: I think of CCCC as a word, not as Cryptic Clue Chat Chains, because I saw it as a word first)
And that your brain is pretty nifty
Singer - fashionable, and can read your mind (7) - PSY + CHIC???
bad surface, rip
@Sciborg The best respect for something is to put it on your dinner plate
Too bad they put me in this coffin D:
12:57 AM
(zombie talk)
Avi is in general weird
But I'm pretty sure that there exist rituals to respect the things that we eat
Because they lost their life to sustain ours
For a minute there I was like "am I tipsy or is he tipsy"
answer: both
answer: probably neither, rip
1:01 AM
If someone asks "Here is a puzzle I tried, I solved it this way, but it's incorrect. Is something wrong with my solution?" and the answer is "No, nothing's wrong with your solution", is it fine to post the answer?
Because I'm getting the feeling that such an answer doesn't add anything
If you could provide some proof as to why their solution is correct, that would be an answer
Sounds legit
Q: Most 5s in a 5x5 Super Minesweeper grid

Dmitry KamenetskyIn a Super™ Minesweeper grid each cell is either a mine or a value. A value in row $𝑟$ and column $𝑐$ represents the total number of mines located in row $𝑟$ or column $𝑐$. What is the most number of 5s that can occur in a 5x5 Super™ Minesweeper grid? Good luck!

Q: All values in a 6x6 Super Minesweeper grid

Dmitry KamenetskyIn a Super™ Minesweeper grid each cell is either a mine or a value. A value in row $𝑟$ and column $𝑐$ represents the total number of mines located in row $𝑟$ or column $𝑐$ Can you fill a 6x6 Super™ Minesweeper grid with mines such that every number from 0 to 8 appears at least once? Good luck...

1:22 AM
I have a weird guess for Gareth's C4, given that "crooked" might be an anagram indicator. HUNGRY contains the word GUN, mixed up, which is conceivably the weapon of an underworld boss? Where "full of base desires" would be the definition. I'm not sure where the HRY part would come from, though.
Alternatively, HITMAN? where the first half is the def and "crooked" = "hit" + "full of base desires" = "man" as a reference to the William Blake poem.
Neither of these are great fits, though.
1:37 AM
"full of" could be an insertion indicator - "weapon of underworld boss" around "base desires", take out def as needed
That does make sense
my mom is very happy because the thing she was coding finally is working
Definitely a familiar feeling :p
Is she a software person?
she both does some coding and yells at people in meetings to do their coding
Sounds about right
1:44 AM
then the people don't do their coding fast enough and she yells at them some more
If we take "base desires" as the middle part of an insertion, could be "IDS" or "SINS"
But it's only six letters, so we don't have much to work with
words that would work if "base desires" = IDS : AMIDST, MIDSTS
yeah neither of those work
"crooked" could be "SLY", so container could be SL_ _ _ Y
also, about the GUN idea earlier: no indirect anagrams
"crooked" could apply to "boss", though
An underworld boss is a DON, if that's helpful
1:49 AM
"crooked" could also apply to AND
If "weapon of underworld boss" is the def, I like YAKUZA, MINION and FLUNKY as options
so anagram AND and then stick "base desires" into it?
Anagram AND as the container? that seems complex
but possible. Darn it, Jim, I'm a bobbling crown not a cryptic master
and leaving again
I do like that though, it fits with the first half being the def and the second half having every word fit into the wordplay
1:53 AM
@GarethMcCaughan Weapon of underworld boss = Hades' weapon = BIDENT = B(ID)ENT
Oh my god
yeah it is
Why did I not make the underworld boss = Hades connection
@GarethMcCaughan oAlt solved your C4
1:55 AM
oh no not again, the responsibility of making another C4
Hello darkness my old friend
alternatively, "Weapon of underworld boss (the president): tip of tongue (6)"
@oAlt Yup!
@Avi not the CCCC: "Singer's fashionable one who can read your mind (7)"
@bobble ah yes, Star Trek quote
2:07 AM
@Sciborg What specific William Blake poem?
@oAlt oof, had the answer but not the WP
how does "base desires" become ID?
is that a literal definition?
was taking it as D_
i think it has something to do with freud's shiz
yup, id as in Freud
"base desires" isn't a super-accurate definition but it's good enough
I was thinking of Blake's Proverbs of Hell ("the base man"), but that wasn't a great connection obviously. I'm so mad at myself for not realizing the Hades reference :p
Really clever C4, I had a head-smack moment when oAlt explained it
2:23 AM
distant facepalming sounds
anyway, sorry oAlt, you have to make the next one now :-). Bedtime for me. Good night!
Good night :)
heh, night
@Sciborg … then don't say the two different specific subjects you wrote papers on, and when, and where your name appeared in each, and which preprint server they're on. I'm guessing (though I haven't tried and don't plan to) that that's enough to identify you.
@oAlt nice
2:32 AM
I don't think I gave enough details on what they were about for anyone to find the exact papers, as they're extremely niche and basically only published in a tiny journal. But if you can find them, feel free, I guess?
You'd really have to know the specific subject and title and a few more specific details to even have them appear in a Google search.
2:48 AM
Oh, I thought you said what preprint server they're on. My mistake.
I mentioned arxiv, but only one of them has ever been there, and if I recall correctly it isn't there anymore.
But again, they're so specific and weird that I don't think they're as easy to find as it sounds.
No matter (to me. It's not like I'm trying to find them).
I would be impressed if anyone has ever looked at either of them, to be honest. Not exactly a famous scientist :p
Welcome back bobble!
I have returned
2:55 AM
While eating dinner I was visualizing Tetromino Nurikabe solutions in my head, moving the pieces around and mentally checking for 2x2s
... what have I come to?
The Tetris Effect, from the sounds of it :p
yep logic puzzles have done that to me before
Aug 31 '16 at 16:15, by Rand al'Thor
@Ankoganit I get that all the time. Congratulations, you've been infected with the puzzling bug!
The Tetris effect (also known as Tetris syndrome) occurs when people devote so much time and attention to an activity that it begins to pattern their thoughts, mental images, and dreams. It takes its name from the video game Tetris.People who have played Tetris for a prolonged amount of time can find themselves thinking about ways different shapes in the real world can fit together, such as the boxes on a supermarket shelf or the buildings on a street. They may see coloured images of pieces falling into place on an invisible layout at the edges of their visual fields or when they close their eyes...
@Sciborg Yeah. I have exactly one published academic paper to my name, and that's just because my dissertation is considered "published". Nonetheless, I get a "readership report" by e-mail every month(?) from my university, indicating how many people have downloaded it. I've stopped opening the e-mail messages, but they used to indicate single-digit readership. And even then, I'd wonder "who on earth? ah, probably download bots"
2:57 AM
especially new genres - when i was making heyacrazy puzzles i was seeing deductions in my sleep
@msh210 I relate to this way too much :p
@Sciborg Oof, that's really a thing
"Ah yes, how many people have downloaded my paper this month?? ...Two? oKAY"
The marine bio papers I read are the free ones off Nature, so they get one person by not paywalling themselves :)
The funniest part was bringing my work to conferences, because I would start explaining it to people who looked at my poster and I could just see their eyes slowly glazing over
3:02 AM
@Sciborg And that's people in the field!
If you've never seen somebody's soul leaving their body, just start trying to explain your niche scientific research work to them
I've tried explaining my work to outsiders. I learned to condense it to eight words.
Off topic: I was once good at tetris though I haven't played it for years
@Bubbler That's you?? Goddamn!!
my god
3:04 AM
I coded Tetris in python and it only has 1 bug that I can't find!
Yeah, that's me in 2017
time to subscribe
hammers subscribe button
This is oddly satisfying to watch
3:05 AM
no videos for 3 years, unfortunately
Plot twist: The numbers at the bottom are minutes. The video is sped up ×60. I mean, that's the only way I can imagine a human being actually doing that.
I'm just watching in awe
Even I sometimes watch it in awe
And here I was thinking I was a pro gamer
i subbed to you with my old youtube account from like 4 years ago
speaking of games, I started obra dinn
this is harder than i expected
3:12 AM
but fun!
It's hard, but it's so cool.
such a good game
Please try to savor it, because you can only ever play it once
3:13 AM
I'm playing the game "can I make a legal Tetromino Nurikabe solution that starts with this deduction"
so far I am losing miserably
i'm having what is called a "doing statue parks with the laptop balanced on the laundry machine" problem
that sounds like a non-bad problem
3:19 AM
i had to do laundry but i also had to place an L block so i'm just doing both
@HTM Hm. When I see "/s", I read it as "the preceding was sarcastic".
@Sciborg As long as you don't launder the laptop....
The laptop is safe and sound on top of my socks
One college summer program I went to had you dorm, and I brought money for the laundry. On the first day there the RA told us that the machines were doing laundry for free - and then swore us to secrecy, since if the faculty found out they would fix it.
@Sciborg Then you should call it a socktop.
@bobble That is college in a nutshell
3:22 AM
It wasn't even that much money, but hey, free is better than not free
I remember one time there was a drink machine in my science building that was supposed to take credit cards, but it broke one day so that if you swiped your credit card, you could pick a drink, it would vend it, and it wouldn't charge your account for it. The professors were so confused why there was a massive line by the vending machine
they provided free drinks with all meals, but some people still bought extra soda off the vending machines
Our reasoning was that we paid thousands of dollars to be there, and we could take a couple free drinks if we damn well wanted to :p
seems reasonable enough to me
Our CS department has a coffee machine that gives free coffee, except you are supposed to buy cups from the department
3:25 AM
there are literally thousands of workarounds for this, no idea why no one uses those
I'm sure nobody brings mugs
@Sciborg for some reason, they don't!
I've actually watched tha machine for long periods
3:26 AM
(in a non-creepy way)
(sure if you insist)
we believe you
I have no clue how it works
There are like... a hundred ways my "take free things immediately" college training can think of to get around this.
3:26 AM
@Ankoganit should set up a monitor like the one at MIT
Maybe it's because there's some social pressure in being the first one to "break the rule" or something
@msh210 hm?
I would be the first a**hole to show up with a mug
you could show up with a mug cleverly disguised as a standard-issue cup
Even better
Sorry! Cambridge, apparently:
The Trojan Room coffee pot was a coffee machine located next to the so-called Trojan Room in the old Computer Laboratory of the University of Cambridge, England, which in 1991 provided the inspiration for the world's first webcam. To save people working in the building the disappointment of finding the coffee machine empty after making the trip to the room, a camera was set up providing a live picture of the coffee pot to all desktop computers on the office network. After the camera was connected to the Internet a few years later, the coffee pot gained international notoriety as a feature of the...
3:29 AM
the standard issue cups aren't particularly rare either
you can reuse cups if all else fails
@msh210 ooh, interesting
xcoffee, what a creative name for a webcam window
I hope that runs on Java
Q: Is my modest english skills a handicap to write on the site?

Chris Steinbeck BellI'm some new to this stack exchange community. Over the last weeks I've been posting different kinds of problems to my best ability. Some of them had drawings or sketches (the best which I could make them) to illustrate my doubts and confusion. However some of those like hunters and bullets and c...

@PuzzlingMeta I can write a response to this and will right now
I think our most devious "free stuff" ploy in college was that our dining hall had banned food containers, leftovers and take home containers in the meal hall, which obviously sucked for students who were super busy and didn't have time to sit down in meal hall. So we set up a giant student smuggling ring to sneak food containers in and out of the dining hall throughout the year hidden in people's backpacks like drug lords, and we got tons of secret free leftovers out of it.
3:35 AM
that's hilarious
The moral of the story being that hungry college students will always find a way.
@bobble this is the guy whose questions you frequently edit for English issues, if memory serves?
yep! I'm starting off with "Hi, I'm bobble. I have been the one editing most of your posts."
I'm also trying to use simple words and sentence structures, just for here
We should definitely try to be kind, he sounds very embarrassed about it and we want to let him know he's welcome here and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
yeah im planning to comment that too
3:51 AM
Is there a good site or chatroom I can point him to for help with English?
That is, is there a Stack Exchange site/chat for this kind of thing?
English Language Learners (ELL)
Perfect, I'm assuming you will mention that in your answer but I'll leave it in my comment too
i forgot that site existed
I appreciate how wholesome Puzzling can be in moments like these, we're all teaming up to help somebody feel better and encourage them :)
4:01 AM
(see my answer?)
I'm glad you included the part about the importance of trying, because it is clear they try hard.
I feel a bit bad about my initial grammar comment now. Should I go back and delete it?
(I mean this one)
It may have come across a little harsh at the time
I'm also considering posting an apology comment - there, or under the meta post?
4:08 AM
Q: How do you deduce complete list of the five beers you can drink, in this LSAT question?

English is my second language.I don't know if this is a real LSAT question, or if the author made it up, but my head already aches from looking at it! Does it have a valid solution? M Kimes. Ivy Briefs: True Tales of a Neurotic Law Student 2007. p 11.

You don't have to apologize for it, I think it's understandable that you left a pithy comment at the time - editing stuff takes effort and it's okay to say you would prefer not to do it.
I wasn't saying it was unwarranted, just that it may have had a tone you didn't intend
Also, should I edit their meta question? I'm leaning towards "no"
Just a suggestion, maybe elaborate a bit on why mathjax for lists is bad? As it stands now it may come across as some sort of arbitrary PSE specific rule
Leaving it as-is sounds better, as editing it would remove some of the context
@bobble probably better to leave it as it is
4:13 AM
added some MathJax explanation
I have returned to fighting my Tetromino Nurikabe
North's geography connect wall is still unsolved right?
I hope we get some hints on it soon
Feels like we need them :p
4:28 AM
I keep almost getting a solution, but I would use a tetromino twice, or there's one 2x2 left, or some ocean would be blocked off...
on an unrelated note, daily doodle:
user image
also: SHIELD update?
they seem very trustworthy
we ended up watching Mandalorian instead... :p
i had also made a doodle of the chatroom teaching me grid deductions, but i suck at faces so i'm redoing it
how are the tetrominoes going now?
4:38 AM
I gave up on the deduction, and switched to a related one
I really want you to get episodes #6 & #7, those are my favorite of the Before-Twist episodes
It's too hard to choose among the After-Twist episodes, they're all too good!
Promise I'll get to those eventually, I just happen to have a watch buddy who really likes Mandalorian so we have to trade off :p
Before-Twist is probably the most ominous way to describe episodes of a TV show
now you have to watch them
Reminds me of when I started Game of Thrones and the entire time we watched season one, my dad was elbowing me in the ribs and whispering "wait until we get to the Twist"
#15 is an iffy episode (one of the characters has his consent taken away through magic), but then you hit #17 and there is the first Twist
(the second Twist, by the way, is literally written in blood on the wall)
4:45 AM
yikes to #15?
if you want to skip it when you get there, tell me and I can summarize the important plot points
I mean, it seems like a pretty family-friendly-ish show, so like... I doubt they would show anything genuinely horrific
there is implied intercourse, and you're explicitly told that the man in question is incapable of saying no to the Evil Lady
4:48 AM
as I said, iffy
it can't be worse than perfect blue, so... i think i'll be fine?
you have been warned, though
i appreciate the warning, which i did not get for perfect blue, not naming names
(my bad there)
4:50 AM
no worries
i did think it was funny that you looked at my softie, heart-emoji self and thought "yes, they can definitely handle this"
"they seem like a hardened individual"
tbh I didn't really think it through
sometimes my brain doesn't brain so well
that's a relatable mood
I'll try to avoid mentally scarring strangers on the internet in future
another warning, this one more immediate: in #4, there is some gory eye surgery
Oh god, I can't handle ANYTHING with eyeballs
do you have a timestamp on that?
4:55 AM
I'll see if I can look it up
I assume you don't want any more details?
i mean, i do wonder what the context of gory eye surgery could be in a Marvel show
more icky stuff: in #7, a tube is stuck up a guy's nose very very deep
They announce it beforehand, so you should be able to turn away
@Sciborg do you really want to know?
usually partner knows to smack a hand over my eyes for that kind of thing so that should be fine
i do not think i want to know
because it matters: if I remember correctly, there are actually multiple parts of eye surgery, intercut with the Dramatic Spy Scene that happens at the same time

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