The Sphinx's Lair

Prince North Læraðr

18:00

Having a job seems like such a nebulous, impossible concept for me

sobs

/*sobs*/

how

Sciborg

You'll get something! It might not be the thing you think you liked. My first job was one I thought I would hate but I absolutely loved.

Just gotta keep an open mind :)

Prince North Læraðr

I'm just concerned about life as a whole

Sciborg

Aren't we all

I would offer you a virtual beer but you're not old enough :p

Are you worried about college, or just in general?

Jeremy Dover

Not sure about other countries, but there are tons of jobs available in the United States. The skilled trades are dying for new people. My cousin does tool and die work in Chicago, and he's been the "new guy" for 40 years.

Prince North Læraðr

@Sciborg Basically college

*sobs*

Sciborg

18:04

Honestly, college seems really scary guys, but it was the best. I really, truly enjoyed it and I met my best friends and networking buddies there. You'll learn a ton and grow up a bunch.

Jeremy Dover

I think people stress way too much about college. Where you go, what grades you get, etc.

Agree with Sciborg, college was the best time of my life.

Prince North Læraðr

@Sciborg No, I'm worried about getting into college

And paying for it

Sciborg

Ah, yes

Jeremy Dover

North: somewhat seriously, have you considered the skilled trades?

Lukas Rotter

@Sciborg I work for a medium-sized company mainly doing industrial automation software. I'm in the "Professional Services" department, which means I don't actually work on the main software product, but rather on customer-specific projects relating to it (e.g. "Hey I want a driver for this PLC" or "Hey I need a GUI for analyzing these files your product spits out").

It's pretty cool, since I often get the chance to do something from scratch, rather than working on the C++ code-base which is now over 30 years old.

Jeremy Dover

18:05

Things like industrial automation, etc.

Prince North Læraðr

@JeremyDover What kind of skilled trades?

Not really. My entire focus has mostly been in music

Lukas Rotter

(I work with C#, though)

Jeremy Dover

If you like working with your hands, tool and die work, aircraft maintenance, marine maintenance, electrician.

Prince North Læraðr

@JeremyDover I only have one hand, and I'm not sure

Sciborg

@LukasRotter Honestly doing code from scratch is my favorite part of my job, too. I hate working on legacy code so my current job (app development) is really fulfilling in comparison to updating databases and bug fixing somebody else's software :p

And skilled trades are great but they aren't for everyone, I don't always think that should be a catch-all to make up for how completely inaccessible colleges are becoming financially.

Jeremy Dover

18:08

Ahh...did not know that. That would make those careers difficult. But there are other options...sawyers for example. They primarily operate from a computer console. Industrial automation (the PLCs LukasRotter mentioned) is another option/

Prince North Læraðr

I'm not really great at hand-on stuff, to be honest

Especially because I'm much more interested in theoretical possibilities rather than anything remotely practical

Jeremy Dover

Sciborg: I agree they are not for everyone, but guidance (in my experience) in the K-12 system is way too focused on "everyone needs to go to college".

Prince North Læraðr

@JeremyDover I do agree

Sciborg

That's fair.

Prince North Læraðr

My Bible Study leader is a chemistry teacher and he's like "you know, you don't have to go to college"

But I've always been more interested more in academia, so I'll probably stay in college as long as I can :D which means more debt D:

Jeremy Dover

18:12

One thing I can tell you is that the hardest transition is school to first job. Regardless of whether you go to college or not.

Sciborg

Yup, he's right about that

Jeremy Dover

I've done hiring over the years, and I've never looked at anyone's college GPA, unless they were fresh out of school.

I'm much more interested in job experience.

Prince North Læraðr

Life lesson @ The Sphinx's Lair

Sciborg

Can't tell you how many interviews I've had to put on my only suit and tie for, use my nice cologne, drive my crappy car down to, sit still for 3 hours, write code for... and then not get the job anyway and have to do that 17 more times.

Drove me absolutely insane.

Prince North Læraðr

Why can't I just fly to Neverland where no one ever grows up?

Jeremy Dover

18:14

Because it doesn't exist.

Prince North Læraðr

Shucks

Jeremy Dover

Harsh but true.

Prince North Læraðr

That's disappointing

Sciborg

Getting a job is still totally worth it, but takes a lot of work, so just be prepared for that

You'll have to get out of bed at least 10 times and dress up over and over and waste gas on it etc. etc.

And if you're applying online, you have to make an account just to apply and sometimes you have to pay a fee, and.... etc etc etc

Prince North Læraðr

Sheesh, you're scarying me

Sciborg

18:16

I'm just telling you now so you can mentally prep for it :p

Life is scary as hell

Jeremy Dover

If you think that's rough, try finding a spouse :-)

Prince North Læraðr

I'm like already stressed over my grades, more of this and I'm going to have a breakdown D:::

Sciborg

Hey, we're telling you this because we want you to know it's gonna be a big slog and a journey, but you're gonna come out okay.

Or at least you'll have an apartment which is pretty solid

But it's worth it

Prince North Læraðr

@JeremyDover Ah, love. Where two people get together and try to murder each other

I mean-

Jeremy Dover

That's why you have kids, so you can't easily sneak arsenic into the food.

7

Sciborg

18:18

Life is wild and it's gonna slowly get harder as you get older North, but you're gonna be just fine, genuinely. It's scary but you adapt and you get through it.

Can't just give up on it, that's no fun.

Jeremy Dover

What we're not talking about, and I think Sciborg will agree, is that your ability to deal with these complications grows a lot, once you start facing the challenges. It's a skill like everything else.

Sciborg

Absolutely, you adapt.

Jeremy Dover

I didn't walk into retirement straight out of high school.

You never stop learning, and you never stop growing.

And sadly, there's always some asshole out there who's going to try to give you a grade on your performance.

Prince North Læraðr

@JeremyDover Hehe, now that's a metaphor I can get

Jeremy Dover

In school you're kinda stuck listening to them, but the best thing you can do is realize you only have to respect the opinions of people you respect, not anyone who cares to offer an opinion.

Prince North Læraðr

18:21

@JeremyDover ~~So... I don't have to listen to you?~~ Good advice

Sciborg

I mean, you don't have to listen to anybody, that's the point :p but you should listen to Dover, he's lived a lot more life than we have and he knows a lot more.

Prince North Læraðr

Yup, definitely

Jeremy Dover

Absolutely not. I'm just some dude on the Internet. If what you know of me doesn't deserve respect...you should absolutely not listen to me.

Prince North Læraðr

If one can retire at fifty, you have my respect

Sciborg

Yes, genuinely, I respect that hard. Hope I can find my way and get there.

Prince North Læraðr

18:23

*sighs in day dreams*

Jeremy Dover

Well...thanks! There was a lot of hard work, and lot of luck.

bobble

I'd like to get one of those scholarships that pays for college and guarantees you a job at the end of it.

matt

@PrinceNorthLæraðr backslash and then asterisk

*like this*

Sciborg

@bobble Oh, Lordy...

Prince North Læraðr

I keep using forward slash

@bobble Dang

That's called an internship

matt

18:25

@bobble wouldn't we all

Sciborg

Would have done anything for a guaranteed job after college.

bobble

@Sciborg there's one really cool one I got my eye on, where you get book money, an allowance, internships during the summer, full tuition, and a job afterwards. You can't apply until you're actually in college though.

matt

also TIL google meets has a new logo

Prince North Læraðr

@bobble That looks like a scam

Sciborg

@bobble That has got to be a scam, honestly, I've never heard of a deal that good

bobble

18:26

It's through the DoD

Sciborg

DoD?

Prince North Læraðr

Ah

Department of Defense, I think

U.S. Military does give really, really good benefits

Sciborg

God d-a-m-n

Maybe I should have joined the Army

Prince North Læraðr

Like HELLA good scholarships

ROTC programs can pay for either half or full scholarship into college

Some even give a stipend

@Sciborg You still can, I think. They're always looking for anyone with tech knowledge

Lukas Rotter

Speaking of army, any new ideas on defusing the C4 explosive?

Sciborg

18:28

I was... definitely kidding, but yes

matt

@LukasRotter heh, C4

Prince North Læraðr

I wanted to go into the Air Force, but then the recruiting officer is like, "Yeah, you don't have an arm, that's kind of a problem"

matt

aw

Prince North Læraðr

*grumble grumble*

Sciborg

My problem would be more with, uh, "not asking and not telling"

Prince North Læraðr

18:30

I mean, they're not supposed to discriminate again race, sex, gender, etc. but we all know that's not true

Sciborg

...yeah

matt

@PrinceNorthLæraðr or arm count

Prince North Læraðr

@matt I mean, they have valid reason to. I'm just salty about that

Sciborg

I would be pretty salty too, yeah

They also don't let you in if you have different numbers of vertebrae and stuff, so they've got tons of restrictions

Prince North Læraðr

Oh, air force is really strict

Certain height restriction, weight restrictions, and EYE SIGHT restrictions

Sciborg

18:32

Oh god you're right, my eyesight would never allow me in either

bobble

I found that scholarship I talked about. Here's the list of benefits. I had forgotten some of them!

Sciborg

"Hey, uh, Private, why have you been holding that paper up to your face"

Prince North Læraðr

@Sciborg I think eye-sight might only be for pilots. I'm not a hundred percent sure

matt

@Sciborg ?

Prince North Læraðr

@bobble Damn healthcare. That's a biggie

Sciborg

18:34

@matt the joke is that i'm visually impaired

bobble

@PrinceNorthLæraðr "Only" $1200/year

matt

@Sciborg i see (pun not intended)

Sciborg

"O N L Y" $1200/year

bobble

just for healthcare

Sciborg

Yes sorry hello I would like an allowance of "only" $1200

Prince North Læraðr

18:35

I think it can only be used for healthcare, pretty sure

bobble

"Miscellaneous allowance of up to $1,000 per academic year"

Prince North Læraðr

^

Sciborg

MISCELLANEOUS ALLOWANCE

Jesus on a jellybean

Prince North Læraðr

"Stipend paid at a rate of $25,000 - $38,000 a year depending on degree level "

That's ONTOP of a full scholarship

Sciborg

ffffsssss

Can I go back to college solely to have this scholarship

matt

18:36

@Sciborg nyoes

Prince North Læraðr

Maybe I should start looking into STEM fields. sigh I've always been an Arts & Humanities guy though

matt

try STEAM

Prince North Læraðr

Law, philosophy, music, and theology

Sciborg

It's tough because you know the joke about arts and humanities, they tend to be hard to find jobs for compared to STEM (which is hard enough)

matt

right

Sciborg

18:37

I love music but I decided it was just a hobby because there's no way I could be employed as a pianist

Prince North Læraðr

Law is way too much work for me I think, even though it's a pretty solid career choice

Philosophy you can't get a job with

Music is extremely volatile

And theology is only good if you want to be a pastor. Except... I'm not looking to be a pastor

Sciborg

They're tough options. Law is a great career but you have to be willing to be, y'know, a lawyer

Prince North Læraðr

Yeah. solid 70% chance I'm not pursuing that

Sciborg

And philosophy is great but only if you want to be a philosophy teacher.

bobble

they have some stats! 323 awarded last year, which is 13% of applicants, with an average GPA of 3.76

Prince North Læraðr

18:39

Philosophy gets you a job as a philosophy professor. So wait until that 80 year old professor drops dead and then maybe you might have a chance

Sciborg

@bobble Is there small print where you have to work for the DoD for 10 years or so?

bobble

@PrinceNorthLæraðr or murder

Prince North Læraðr

@bobble True, but you might get Macbeth'd

bobble

@Sciborg You have to work for longer if you get higher degrees. I'll look for some exact year counts.

Sciborg

@bobble That's probably the strings attached. They'll tie you into working for them for a set number of years, and you can't negotiate salary or anything, nor can you leave.

Even if it's a great job, not having that flexibility is tough as heck.

Prince North Læraðr

18:41

Still, working for the CIA is pretty cool

bobble

"SMART is a one-for-one commitment; for every year of degree funding, the scholar commits to working for a year with the DoD as a civilian employee."

Prince North Læraðr

Damn

Sciborg

Ah, so four years of college = four years working for them.

If you're comfortable committing to that, commit to it, but that's a really big decision.

Prince North Læraðr

So if I want my PhD, that means I'll working for them for... six years....

Five years

bobble

"minimum of 1.5 years and a maximum of 5 years of funding"

Prince North Læraðr

18:43

@matt Funny joke

Sciborg

I've never worked a government job, but be warned:
a) government shutdowns will cut off your paycheck,
b) federal employees are not as forgiving of mistakes or on-the-job learning as private sector,
c) you will have to stay at that job for four years and you cannot leave or do anything about it. And you will probably have to live nearby for those years and not be able to move also.

bobble

a) doesn't apply if you're "essential" - there's some emergency money kept for those people

Sciborg

More benefits always means more strings.

Prince North Læraðr

B) Be part of the Union

Sciborg

Depending on the job they may not have a union

Prince North Læraðr

18:45

True

Hah, I should be a teacher! (nope)

Sciborg

I don't mean to ward you off, but again, committing to the same job for four years is a big, big decision

Prince North Læraðr

My middle school band teacher has told me all the horror stories of being a teacher

Sciborg

We got really damn serious in this chat today didn't we, I should stop with the scary stuff

Puzzles are fun

matt

Puzzles are very fun

Sciborg

We love puzzles

Prince North Læraðr

18:49

Why can't I be good at STEM (sniffles)

Sciborg

Hey, I was completely crap at computers when I arrived at college, and ta-da, I popped out a programmer :D

You can learn any skill, you don't have to be talented

Prince North Læraðr

It's more like "why can't I be interested in those fields"

Sciborg

What parts of STEM are boring?

Avi

the xylem and the phloem

2

Sciborg

@Avi I will kill you

Prince North Læraðr

18:51

It's not that it's boring, it just doesn't appeal to me:
Science: Has too much math
Engineering: Math
Technology: Math
Math: Math

bobble

@Sciborg MURDER IS ILLEGAL DON'T MURDER

Avi

@Sciborg but I am already dead

Sciborg

Okay, so you're not a math person. Build circuits! Do chemicals!

Avi

cs ez

Prince North Læraðr

@Sciborg Chemicals = math

matt

18:52

@PrinceNorthLæraðr circuits =/= math

Prince North Læraðr

Circuits = math (cries) MATh MATH MATH maTh Math MAtH

@matt Electricity

is physics

Which is math ahhhhh

Sciborg

@PrinceNorthLæraðr what are some things you enjoy then besides philosophy stuff?

matt

even art is math

Lukas Rotter

everything is math. no job for you anywhere :P

Avi

lawnmowing!

Sciborg

18:53

it was all math all along

Prince North Læraðr

@LukasRotter Darn

matt

@Avi = math

bobble

music = math

Avi

@matt :O

Prince North Læraðr

@bobble Noooooooo

HISTORY=MATH

matt

18:53

EVERYTHING IS MATH

bobble

(music theory anyways)

Prince North Læraðr

MATH=MATH

Sciborg

IT'S ALL MATH

bobble

'=' = math

Sciborg

I mean genuinely North, you can learn just enough math to scrape by in chemistry and be totally fine. There's really not that much math involved.

Prince North Læraðr

18:54

I had chemistry last year. It wasn't all that interesting, tbh

Though, lab technicians are really cool

Look at microscopes and stuff

Sciborg

What is interesting to you? We can work with anything

bobble

magic

Prince North Læraðr

Human immune system. That's actually really cool

Sciborg

Heyyy okay! Immunology! That stuff is fun!

Lukas Rotter

aCtUaL mAgIc

Sciborg

18:56

Biology doesn't even have much math, it's just a bunch of molecules and enzymes

You could try immunobiology?

Prince North Læraðr

Right. The only thing I'm scared about in immunology is seeing very gross pictures

Sciborg

I used to pass out when I saw blood, I had to slowly desensitize myself to get over it.

Once you get used to it, it's fine

Prince North Læraðr

Hm, I don't know

John Dvorak

On the other hand, physicists like to say physics is to math as sex is to masturbation.

Sciborg

You must be super interested in something, everybody has a thing. You're giving me nothing to work with here :p

And thank you for obligatory xkcd, always appreciated

Prince North Læraðr

18:59

@Sciborg Well, like I said, I've always been a humanities guy :P

Sciborg

Which humanities that I can work with though? xP

Prince North Læraðr

Yeah. Rather difficult :P

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