The Sphinx's Lair

humn

20:00

Your circle is an inward spiral by now.

Jonathan Allan

off topic but, hey: two of my contributions to Jelly used to answer one code golf challenge :):

3

A: Reverse Insertion sort

Jelly, 12 bytes L!_UÆ¡$œ?J’U Try it online! Explanation We can basically see the two lists (the input and the output) as encoding an integer; the input encodes an integer in factorial base, and the output encodes an integer as a permutation. Luckily, Jelly has builtins that are already very ...

dcfyj

Ok, back from meeting

Matt

nice!

dcfyj

nice?

Jonathan Allan

:)

Techidiot

20:02

@JonathanAllan I have seen you going awesome at code golf

humn

(I'm trying to think of better feedback for your spiral, Matt)

Jonathan, are you a Jelly developer? (I'm only glancingly even aware of the language)

Techidiot

Dennis owns it.

Dennis ♦, The Nineteenth Byte

126k 24 224 534

There are many similar coming up now and then for the code golf's basically built upon python

Matt

I'll brb

humn

(i'll add to the puzzle statement)

Jonathan Allan

20:33

@humn, I have contributed some to it.

something got merged in today actually...

humn

@JonathanAllan , contributed to Jelly? [Bowing down!]

Jonathan Allan

the ṃ atom try it can you tell what it does?

@humn - you see that answer I linked to ^?

humn

I saw that the answer casually used your atoms as if they were standard.

Jonathan Allan

I contributed both main players, Æ¡ and œ?.

Techidiot

He is the famous jjallan :)

humn

20:38

Right on! (now can't resist checking out ṃ )

Jonathan Allan

I have added their counterparts Æ! and œ¿ too

humn

oooooo, i'm not going to try 9999ṃ[9] again. The universe almost ran out of 9s.

Jonathan Allan

plus Æ?, Æ¿, Œ?, and Œ¿`

yeah 9999ṃ[9] will be 9999 9s (you can check with 9999ṃ[9]L)

Techidiot

@JonathanAllan You may create a nice puzzle solver - for e.g. a stenography solver which finds the hidden letters to make a meaningful sentence. I guess you have worked on Enigma as well(I remember lurking in your repo days back) ;)

Sphinx

-1

Q: A Listening Puzzle

Listen to the attached audio file and determine what the message is, simply. https://clyp.it/exr5jvhc

enigmatic-puzzle audio

Jonathan Allan

20:43

hmm Enigma?

dcfyj

In game design?

Jonathan Allan

oh the turnstyle thing?

Sconibulus

xṃ[y] gives you x y's it seems

Jonathan Allan

indeed (@Sconibulus)

Sconibulus

but does more complicated things with bigger arrays

Jonathan Allan

20:44

that too

humn

9999ṃ[a] = 0

Jonathan Allan

@Techidiot you mean...

5

A: Engel's Enigma Optimals

As you say, you are implementing a type of Douglas Engel's puzzle, an "Enigma". Given the colour set and the fact that you are ignoring the orientation of the triangular wedges ("corners" in twisty puzzle lingo) in your implementation makes it a either a "Turnstile" or "Avenger" (I believe one wi...

humn

but 9999ṃ[a,1,ana,2,ana,1,2,3,4] = (blank)

Jonathan Allan

cool puzzle this ṃ game

Techidiot

@JonathanAllan Exactly. The link in the bottom is what I went through

Jonathan Allan

20:48

Ah yes.

quite an accomplishment

humn

seems like the inverse base factorial puzzle would be easier

dcfyj

@JonathanAllan It's looping through the given array 9999ṃ[9,0,2,1] gives [0, 9, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2] while 9998m[9,,0,2,1] gives [0,9,2,1,1,2,0]. Essentially it increments the starting digit by one each time you increase the m[].

0ṃ[9,0,2,1] = 1
1ṃ[9,0,2,1] = 9
.
.
.
10ṃ[9,0,2,1] = [0,0]
etc

humn

it doesn't even seem to care what the arguments are, as long as they're not [a,1,ana,2,ana,1,2,3,4], only seems to care how many arguments

dcfyj

It's using the index or the array as counters

10m loops ten times, each time it loops it increments the "counter"

first loop through goes to 9 the second to 0, and then it write the resting place, in 10m's case, 0.

Jonathan Allan

there are always two arguments (the left and right) the right here is a list, but I know what you mean.

humn

20:55

9999ṃ[9999ṃ[1,2]] = (blank)

dcfyj

lol

Jonathan Allan

@dcfyj not quite sure what pattern you are exposing

dcfyj

@humn That's because the inner one is too big I think

humn

always worth a try though!

dcfyj

@JonathanAllan Each time you increment the number next to m it responds with the next index value

Techidiot

20:56

16 mins ago, by humn

oooooo, i'm not going to try 9999ṃ[9] again. The universe almost ran out of 9s.

Jonathan Allan

@humn that wont parse

Techidiot

:D

Jonathan Allan

click "debug" you will see an error

dcfyj

@Techidiot I bet you had 9999 9s :P

@JonathanAllan It gets an EOF

humn

(got it about 2 arguments) My preliminary conclusion is that this is a slightly buggy way to produce (blank). Most inputs I tried work flawlessly, but ones with numbers seem to produce numbered error codes.

2

Techidiot

20:57

@dcfyj How much was the bet again?

:D

dcfyj

@Techidiot I don't care to count the 9s, but you can :P

Jonathan Allan

@humn LMAO :)

Techidiot

Haha

dcfyj

anyhow, I'm off, catch you folks later

Jonathan Allan

yep 9999 of em: tio.run/nexus/jelly#@28JBA93Nkdbxh7ptvz/HwA

humn

20:59

9999ṃ[l,a,t,e,r,d,c,f,y.j]

Jonathan Allan

later @dcfyj

humn

Jonathan that's twice today we've betrayed our enrollment at the same public typing school

Jonathan Allan

ċ9 counts the 9s

true that

Sconibulus

Oh!

Jonathan Allan

same devs produce similar bots :p

Sconibulus

21:01

it's a base-changer

Jonathan Allan

BINGO

the list are your digits

[1,2,3,....N,0]

Sconibulus

the zero is the last digit though

Jonathan Allan

because Jelly has 1 based indexing everywhere

Sconibulus

that threw me for a while

Jonathan Allan

neat result is that xṃy converts to base y then changes all the zeros for ys :)

Sconibulus

21:03

is the reason letters don't work because letters map to other functions?

Jonathan Allan

yeah pretty much

Atoms

quicks

the code-page

Sconibulus

ṃ doesn't appear to be listed

Jonathan Allan

a tutorial

humn

Nice solve on ṃ , Sconibulus! Think it'll solve Jonathan's mystery sequence?

Jonathan Allan

it's not there cos it only got added today

I will add it in a bit

Sconibulus

21:05

there's a mystery sequence?

I just saw a code puzzle :)

humn

6

Q: Two missing numbers

Two numbers go at the $?$s, what are they and why? $733,\space \space 716,\space \space 645,\space \space 565,\space \space 324,\space \space 276,\space \space 77,\space \space 75,\space \space 64,\space \space 56,\space \space ?,\space \space ?$ Hints

pattern number-sequence

Jonathan Allan

to be honest I think deciphering that atom was harder.

humn

For you too? After writing it yourself?

Jonathan Allan

maybe show the "Two Missing Numbers" to some young folk

Sconibulus

the list xṃ[y] being x 'y's was a decent hint for base-relatedness

Jonathan Allan

21:07

@humn well err no

yep

I thought someone might try xṃy

I guess you went for xṃ[0], xṃ[0,1], ...

Techidiot

Oh that mystery sequence!

humn

I just grabbed a 3-year-old from outside my door. Couldn't make head nor tail of it.

Jonathan Allan

hmm, maybe 6+

Techidiot

It's been intriguing and nagging me at the same time :D

Jonathan Allan

batteries not included

Techidiot

21:11

Haha

(started counting fingers)

humn

The batteries keep wearing out before i do.

Sconibulus

@JonathanAllan yep :) It wasn't matching though so I shelved it for a while

humn

6-year-olds = cartoons = hands with 1 thumb and 3 fingers = octal again

Sconibulus

then I came back with 0's at the end after something else gave me that idea

Techidiot

111 011 011
111 001 110
110 100 101
101 110 101
011 010 100
010 111 110
111 111
111 101
110 100
101 110

Looks like a P

:p

Well, out of scope for a 6 yo though

Jonathan Allan

21:17

so next in the sequence must be Q

Techidiot

@humn is the answer apparently!

humn

^ to some question hopefully

Techidiot

I got it I think

Stuck at the last number though.

Matt

ugh this is the most tortuous reasoning

humn

Took a while to think of the perfect clue: typing ("perfect" begin subjective)

Matt

21:32

typing like programming, organizing or using a computer's keyboard?

humn

Speed of typing... I'll add that.

Matt

another per unit time measurement ...

time perception is an entire field of study

screens show frames per second, then there's words per minute. hmmm

humn

okay, so now that clue is even better than perfect

boboquack

Just wondering, what makes this not too broad (or is it too broad?) puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/49226/…

Jonathan Allan

begin or being?

humn

21:41

did i type that? it was that 3-year-old street urchin

@boboquack ... or even opinion-based? either way, we don't have too many posts like it to bug me, but it made me wonder too

Jonathan Allan

@boboquack It's asking a specific question even though the poster is after a broad resource.

humn

and another thing, @boboquack, ... . . . ... that i so much enjoy about 3 gates and a drop of acid is that it involves only 3 gates and a drop of acid, and still is a fine puzzle. (okay, okay, I'll give it a break, just didn't slip that in last time)

Jonathan Allan

-2

Q: A Listening Puzzle

Listen to the attached audio file and determine what the message is, simply. https://clyp.it/exr5jvhc

enigmatic-puzzle audio

made me think of

Yuja Wang plays the Flight of the Bumble-Bee from Rimsky-Kor.mp4

►

Matt

a transcription or download would've been a little better ...

Jonathan Allan

you could ask

oh you know music is obscure when you cant find it on the internet :/

Matt

21:56

@humn I feel as though I'm at a dead end with time perception

humn

@Matt perhaps I'll add a worksheet/wiki-answer to the puzzle. It would mention things like video frame rate ~= 25/sec, minimum audible frequency ~= 20 cycles/sec, maximum typing speed ~= 10 keys/sec, maximum spoken syllables/sec ~= 15/sec

Thanks to your mentioning brain waves, most of those could be included too! All these fundamental rates are in the same range for humans.

Matt

I don't understand what conclusion I should be drawing from all that information

Techidiot

@JonathanAllan Sorry if I blew it badly

But I had to post something to get a good sleep :p

humn

Matt, the key is minimum audible frequency, and less significantly video frame rate.

You haven't specifically said what the concept seems to be, but I suspect you know it.

Speech and typing are on the motor side, audible frequency and video rate are on the perception side

Jonathan Allan

uh oh wow. Um it is much less complicated :)

humn

22:07

I hope it seems fairly simple when it fits together.

Matt

the limits of Hz detection per sense

humans can only see so many frames per second, hear above 20Hz, etc

Jonathan Allan

hearing -> feeling; seeing -> ?; smelling -> ?

Matt

smelling?

humn

smelling, shallowly as i've learned, is on a whole different time scale

Jonathan Allan

@Techidiot oh for the sleep, I know that scenario well - lying in bed and all you can think about are the puzzles....

Matt

22:10

^ that was me last night

Techidiot

Yeah don't ask. Its 5/7 ratio for me now-a-days

When half of my puzzles are partially solved and the OP has vanished

:S

humn

i sometimes look at the latest puzzle as a sedative

sometimes works

sometimes the opposite

sometimes i post a quick answer, fall asleep, and wake up to point cap without remembering why

proves to me that points and effort are inversely related

Techidiot

Thats...confusing

You love your science, don't you! ;)

Jonathan Allan

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense; nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't, and contrary-wise what it is it wouldn't and what it wouldn't be it would, you see?

2

humn

@Techidiot , like a security blanket

Matt

22:13

the fundamental concept is the limit to the rate at which different creatures can perceive things

if it's not that, it's punching me in the face so hard that I can't see it

Techidiot

@JonathanAllan @JonathanAllan Are you just coming from a walk-through of my solution?

humn

it's that, Matt, enjoy the pummelling

Matt

unff. it hurts

Jonathan Allan

It's Lewis Carol.

Techidiot

That was pretty confusing world :D

Jonathan Allan

22:15

(Alice)

Techidiot

Someone find this guy/girl please!

Matt

the rate of perception would also be important to signal processing, especially computer vision

humn

After Lewis Carroll, before Walt Disney:

Betty Boop-1933-Betty in Blunderland

►

Techidiot

@Matt @humn are you guys into physics? Just curious

Matt

I have to go soon ... and I don't want to lose any more sleep over this

humn

22:18

Doesn't look like anyone is rushing to beat you to this, Matt, I'm pleasantly surprised that you bit already.

Matt

outside of programming, frequencies and music are like my jam

Jonathan Allan

In my world you wouldn't say meow...

Matt

it's not that I'm worried about being sniped, it's that I really want to know the answer for completeness' sake, and I don't think anyone else is after it right now

humn

@Techidiot , I enjoy all kinds of things about physics but don't have any official connection. You?

@Matt , perfect for this puzzle! I've been obsessing about these things forever, also related to instrument design.

Techidiot

I don't understand physics. :( I mean, I like to watch documentaries, read books/magzines about it, show interest in things related to physics, but I can't think about it umm mathematically..or say theoretically with sorts of equations and all. I will chose to die instead of solving a huge integration/derivative based equation or may be drawing a graph based on it :D

Matt

22:22

so, standing waves, and the like

humn

A neato recently-learned fact is that our earlobes give us true 3-dimensional hearing.

Matt

huh, neat

Jonathan Allan

@humn pretty intense

Matt

intense, sounds like camping

humn

Another is that trombones break the sound barrier internally

Jonathan Allan

22:24

Alice in Wonderland ~ In a World of my Own (English)

►

Matt

why is that?

so sound comes out the bell after traveling faster than the speed of sound through the ~9 feet of tubing?

humn

@Techidiot , I don't get much pleasure from cranking through equations but i do from working out graphs somewhat intuitively. A friend thinks i can "sculpt" functions.

Techidiot

Who does not think that? ;)

Matt

but, we digress

the rate at which we can take in information beckons

I cannot ignore

my face is too sore

Techidiot

I have no idea how they work. I see your diagrams, I upvote it for the artistic work behind it and that's it. I can't dare to solve however easier they might be :D

@Matt Did you accidentally created a rhyme? ;)

Matt

22:28

yes

I was rehashing the metaphor of the answer punching me in the face

and the fact that this is unanswered is irksome to no end

Techidiot

@JonathanAllan Any good documentation/beginners course for MathJax? :p

Matt

what about mathjax.org

Jonathan Allan

Just the math.SE post

1723

Q: MathJax basic tutorial and quick reference

To see how any formula was written in any question or answer, including this one, right-click on the expression it and choose "Show Math As > TeX Commands". (When you do this, the '$' will not display. Make sure you add these. See the next point.) For inline formulas, enclose the formula in $......

discussion faq mathjax reference

Techidiot

I feel like a loser looking at my own answer involving numbers :D

humn

That's what MathJax is really for, making us feel like losers.

Techidiot

22:31

Is there anything for uparrow?

humn

Good place for MathJax symbols and many other aspects: pbx-brasil.com/Pesquisa/Ferramentas/Latex/mathjax/martinkeefe/…

(it's a mirror of a broken source site)

Techidiot

Cool

Jonathan Allan

\uparrow

so $\uparrow$

humn

(And I'm not at all serious about MathJax being for making us feel like losers. Good luck finding anyone here more MathJax-happy. Some are tied, to be sure.)

boboquack

(No MathJax in chat!)

Techidiot

22:33

Let me try

boboquack

Anyone want to play contact?

Jonathan Allan

explain it to me

one person is the guesser?

Techidiot

@boboquack I will be joining in a few hrs. Its 4am already here

Matt

(in the contact room)

I need to pester humn some more

boboquack

Contact

For playing the game Contact, where one person tries to "defend"...

Come here and I will explain.

@humn, join contact!

humn

22:42

@boboquack , to watch, at least ... (not good at even being in one place at all, to misquote Alice)

Techidiot

Cya guys! Grt weekend ahead.

Matt

have a good one!

boboquack

@Randal'Thor, on the review comment, I didn't know it was auto-generated. I just put 'this answers a different question'.

By @Tech!

boboquack

23:00

*Bye

Rand al'Thor

23:14

@boboquack No, that particular autocomment is generated when you put "this is a different question posted as an answer".

There's no "this answers a different question" option in the review queue.

boboquack

@Randal'Thor Oops, must have read it the wrong way around. I'll be more careful next time.

@stacksfiller! Come join contact!

Rand al'Thor

@JonathanAllan Re your starred message: is that Lewis Carroll?

Jonathan Allan

yeah

Contact

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