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00:07
@Rubio If I manage to also make it work with larger, more complex shapes, I might release a link to it in a wrap-up post (or just in a comment)
00:20
I don't suppose you'd answer this question - is "the inner colors seem to be dependent on the underlying color on the screen at that specific pixel." reliably informing us that the output color is only dependent on the underlying color of the pixel, exclusive of its x/y coords? Or are we not meant to know that as a given
00:51
I think it was a bit unfair for @GentlePurpleRain to say that Sid's answers were all entirely wrong when the Star Trek one mentioned "Gene", since it now seems pretty clear that it was actually about Gene Coon. Admittedly, Sid almost certainly had a different Gene in mind :-).
01:13
I am plainly being very stupid about #7 in that puzzle.
@GarethMcCaughan - "NOTICING IO"
01:32
@Alconja I commented on his post, then I saw your comment @Alconja. And I thought I had it first :( I suppose I can never beat @Alconja.
Aaaaaargh!
@boboquack something something great minds :)
Answer updated, with both of you credited.
(I had, in my notes, "noct- -ing + iio -- nope!" I can't believe I noticed neither NOTICING nor IO at that point. Oh well. To be incredibly stupid is human.)
02:15
So anyone get anywhere with the latest cryptic?
I posted this chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/33696020#33696020 but I'm not sure if it gets anywhere
Hmmm, interesting.. i was thinking more def:worship, with "active Athenian" being marathon/olympic related...
eg. disc (discus) => discipled, or herald (original marathon courier) => heralding or similar
all pretty clunky though
another: pro (professional athlete) => prostrate
03:10
Actually, if I parse it a little differently, it could be PRO (a good) and RATE (score) to give PROSTRATE... Anyone think of a way to get ST out of "active Athenian"?
Ooh, interesting. I can't think of anything at the moment.
Or maybe "Athenian worship" is the definition, and "ST" comes from "active"?
but prostrating isn't particularly Athenian... (is it?)
No, but Athenian worship involved prostrating.
I could be wrong though.
Fair enough
Oh, by the way, did you see my clue's solution? :D
03:17
I did.... ..... ... you said I'd either love it or hate it... love the clue, hate you :P
very clever. :)
I've written a couple that play around with clue structures, so I just need to solve one so I can post one :)
Ooh, fun.
03:29
BTW, are you allowed to put literal letter clues in a charade style clue? Contrived example: Fixes in cloaked postscript (4)
The only problem with that clue is that it's the wrong way around (postscript is cloaking in, rather than in cloaking postscript).
but there's no problem with literal material
Literal clues are always acceptable (except by themselves, of course).
Sure, it's clunky (though i'd argue it could be grammatically correct, as in a "black cloaked man")
but using "IN" directly is ok then
Yeah, that's fine!
I would say a black cloaked man is a black man in a cloak, whereas a black-cloaked man is a man in a black cloak.
03:32
yeah.. :) stupid example
realised after I typed it...
Also, how important is a surface reading? Would a clue still be valid if it made no superficial sense (eg. just a seeming string of random words)? I assume it just marks it as a low quality clue as opposed to an outright "invalid" clue?
Yep!
It would be valid, but kinda dull.
Sid
Sid
04:18
@GarethMcCaughan Yeah, you are right.. I had the "other" Gene in my mind. I was desperately thinking it could be related to something in the human body, possibly DNA,chromosomes,etc..
Sid
Sid
04:49
@Deusovi You should have written "On the question" rather than "on the site"...
Huh?
05:22
Just got an upvote on an 18month old question. For some reason, that sort of thing always makes me imagine a hermit living in the ruins of a city, that was once a thriving metropolis, but is now run down and long forgotten... And in wanders some intrepid explorer... "Where have you come from traveller? By what path did you find this place?"
Sid
Sid
06:00
@Alconja That's deep.... Anyway my upvote for that as well.. :P
 
1 hour later…
07:06
where to start, where to start...
@LukasRotter thanks thats perfect
Sid
Sid
11 pings? Damn, you would have a hard time reading everything..
@Sid well there are now 21 comments on this
Half my fault. sorry :)
Sid
Sid
The "Aments Caphar" was actually correct. Hell, I hadn't even heard of those words..
 
4 hours later…
10:54
woooo 20k (thanks Lukas!)
Congrats!
Thanks. I now have the awesome privileges of Editing Tag Wikis Without Approval and Casting A Few Kinds Of Vote. I hope the power doesn't go to my head.
No problem @BeastlyGerbil & @GarethMcCaughan ! It truly was "an act of genius richly deserving of a 500-point bounty." :P
Heh.
Your rep graph looks pretty alarming.
user189275
11:12
@LukasRotter Hehe. Hilarious.
11:25
@GarethMcCaughan Grats!
@MariaDeleva On your current puzzle: are the last groups big movie franchise too?
11:44
@IAmInPLS maybe. Seeing Mithrandir's puzzle yesterday, it actually surprised me he didn't see through it and solve it.
 
2 hours later…
13:31
If Maria's hints are all truthful then the two remaining groups are obtained by taking {snow, havoc, trip, surprise} and {castle, music, candle, small}, picking one word from each of those groups, and swapping them.
If we make the first group either {snow, havoc, trip, castle} or {snow, havoc, trip, music} we can make a pretty good case for it matching books from the "A song of ice and fire" series.
@GarethMcCaughan Hey there
(The first version looks like a better match to me.)
@Alenanno Buongiorno.
@GarethMcCaughan Ahah salve!
Is "salve" current Italian? I know it as Latin...
so anyway, is there a series of books or movies or something whose titles contain words matching {music, candle, small, surprise}? Or {castle, candle, small, surprise}?
@GarethMcCaughan Yes, it's current Italian.
13:39
@GarethMcCaughan That was my idea as well
But I can't figure out the other one
Song of Ice and Fire might actually be Castle Music Snow Small
Then the last group is Havoc Trip Surprise Candle
@Sconibulus I edited my question, feel free to edit the gloves part in your answer (which is the right one)
I'm having a hard time fitting Candle anywhere
@Alenanno Isn't "salve" a greeting you can use any time to anyone? IIRC it's more formal than Ciao, more informal than Buongiorno / Buonasera and can be used at any time of day?
Maria told us something about Mithrandir's puzzle
who is a Jigsaw puzzle, so is it related to the franchise Saw?
13:44
I don't know, I never saw any of those movies
The candle part would fit : youtube.com/watch?v=aOLcjaQ35Fo
But it's a bit simplistic
@LukasRotter Yes to everything. Salve could be used in emails for example when you're unsure on what to use.
The level of formality about the word seems to me to be a bit vague sometimes, and many people dislike it. I like it :D
@Sconibulus how could it be Castle Music Snow Small? Where does "Small" come in?
I think "candle" probably matches something about "fire" or "light" or similar
they refer to all the peasants as Smallfolk
and in the books they're mentioned kinda a lot
yeah, but
"Since a lot of movies/books may have similar things in their story line, the words do not point to the story line - just the title."
13:53
And I wasn't quite sure how Trip fits
that's Maria in a comment to one of the answers
ahh, don't think I saw that
@GarethMcCaughan It would have been easier to link the comment directly. :P
oh, maybe. does that cause the actual comment to get displayed here?
@GarethMcCaughan Yes, formatted and linked.
Click on "# minutes ago" at the end of the comment. Copy the new URL above, paste it here.
13:54
ah, nice. (gosh, I'm so ignorant.) let's see:
Since a lot of movies/books may have similar things in their story line, the words do not point to the story line - just the title. — Maria Deleva 7 hours ago
oh yeah
21
Q: "The Unfinished ________ Waltz"

AlconjaThis puzzle can be solved as puzzle on its own, but its solution is also part of Deusovi's Community Metapuzzle. Above is the sheet music for the universally acclaimed "The Unfinished ________ Waltz", by renowned composer, Alconja (1763 – 1844). A deeply moving piece, to be sure, though sad...

Same for answers, questions, etc
Even chat messages, using the permalink option.
18 secs ago, by Alenanno
Even chat messages, using the permalink option.
I'm not sure about using the in one of my puzzles.
"So enigmatic even its creator isn't sure how to tag it!"
Ahah :D
Well I'll post it anyways. The tag can be removed if it turns out that way, after all.
@GarethMcCaughan What about the "raw text"? Do we have some guidelines for that? I mean, it's kinda hard to do it for this puzzle.
It is kinda fun how you keep hitting the right vein and still not figuring out the answer. The third group is almost peeking at you. And then you will be left only with the words for the fourth. If you simply combine your latest thoughts...
14:32
whose latest thoughts?
Sid
Sid
Today has been a strange day...
@Alenanno sorry, I don't think I understand your question about raw text.
@Sid what kind of strange?
@GarethMcCaughan Providing a raw version of the puzzle, just textual.
Sid
Sid
IRL that is, I spent an hour doing a thing that I could have done in 5 minutes... Because I am a stupid idiot..
well, Song of Ice and Fire should stick together Snow, Music, and Candle? Which means that Havoc or Trip must go with it... Probably Havoc? Storm of Swords, Clash of Kings, those seem more likely than Trip at least
Oh, wait, I misinterpreted, Snow, Music, and Candle would have to go with Castle or Small, Castle being a fit for Thrones and Kings
14:48
@Alenanno Oh, I see. Well, some puzzles just aren't amenable to plain-text versions. If yours is one, that's just how it is; I wouldn't worry about it.
So small surprise havoc trip... could be... I Had Trouble in Getting to Solla Sollew?
@Sid As I think I've mentioned a few times here, stupidity is humanity's default state, even for much-smarter-than-average humans.
@Sconibulus Again, the words need to match up with things in titles not plots.
All the words are relatively small, trouble could be havoc, getting to implies a trip, and Solla Sollew is a surprising place name :)
(No, it wasn't a good guess)
@GarethMcCaughan Thanks for the input! Much appreciated.
15:04
I admit, the fourth group is the hardest.
15:22
@GarethMcCaughan Is my title correct in English? I'm having doubts about the order of "cubic" and "colored", or even the use of "cubic" to mean "made of cubes".
It's a somewhat unusual usage but I wouldn't worry about it.
You could say "A pyramid of colored cubes".
@GarethMcCaughan Right. I do like the sound of "cubic colored pyramid" though. :D
I mean if it's just unusual but not completely wrong, I'm inclined to leave it.
@GarethMcCaughan Oh, and please don't solve it in 10 minutes as you usually do. Thank you. ;D
ahah
I don't think there is much danger of this one getting solved in 10 minutes.
15:42
@GarethMcCaughan I was unsure on answering your last comment, but I did
Sid
Sid
15:52
Is there a reason, why I would get +1 rep?
maybe an answer you downvoted was removed.
@Sid Maybe you downvoted someone who got removed.
Or you got a question upvote (+5) and 2 downvotes (-4)
etc
Sid
Sid
The first option seems more likely...
Check your reputation tab to confirm
:P
On this site, downvotes are very likely lol
@Alenanno Almost all my latest puzzles have been downvoted at least once (it is very often a unique downvote)
15:59
@IAmInPLS Yeah, it happened to me as well (I just got one on my latest puzzle) for most of mine.
It almost seems like a routine one rather than actually a vote on the content. I don't know.
I'm smiling when I imagine someone's behind his computer waiting for a question to show up in the newest feed and quickly downvoting it
@IAmInPLS Ahah lol exactly
Sid
Sid
16:32
Yes!! My recent puzzle has lasted 10 minutes...
well, I know how the message begins
and now my rotten memory is making it harder to proceed than it should be
(I'm one word ahead of the answer Rand just posted)
(I'm also wondering whether you mean something different from me by "If only")
(to be more explicit: it clearly begins PLEASE COME BACK and I assume it's addressed to someone who has left PSE)
50-50 is probably "SO"
TO would make more sense, but 5 looks like a S.
ah, no, wait
I know who it is and what the last word is
16:47
Also, "your chances are so-so"
but I am having trouble with the stuff in the middle
Unless I'm confused it's obvious (given one piece of information I haven't divulged here) what the next-to-last word has to be, but at least half of the clue then fails to make sense to me.
Sid
Sid
Lukas is right... :-)
meh, dunno. For the benefit of anyone who cares: the user it's addressed to is clearly Avigrail, the last word must be RAIL, but then if the previous word is AVIG then I don't know how that clue works.
The AVI file format was invented in 1992 but I don't think there was a famous wreck called the AVIG in 1988
ah, word after SO must be ON
Sid
Sid
No No, no trivia... Everything is in the clues
so we have PLEASE COME BACK SOON AVIGRAIL
I kinda understand the ON clue though it seems a bit loose
still confused by AVIG
16:52
@GarethMcCaughan WREC + ROT-4 = AVIG
Sid
Sid
yep..
so we're done
Sid
Sid
Hey, give a thorough answer... People might not understand the "straightforward" stuff.
OK, will do
done
(having done which I'm extra-sure I don't quite understand the ON clue)
Sid
Sid
17:11
I would confess "ON" didn't go as I had planned..
Is my theory correct?
@randal'thor Then it's just me who has a dumb theory for it: "Open this not while having tea" - You take the letter "t" (tea) from "not", and then "open" it (like a knot)... I'm a noob in cryptic clues, and just read now that every clue has to include a definition half, so I'm not sure where that is. — Lukas Rotter 2 mins ago
Sid
Sid
Not what I had planned... But it's not cryptic clues, I never tagged it as such.
I doubt it
Sid
Sid
Plus, Cryptic clues are not my area... If I make an error while framing it, Deusovi would be on my back for it... :P
Oh ok, that just beautifully underlines how I can't distinguish cryptic clues from crossword clues :D (I should really read the full Deusovi's guide)
Sid
Sid
17:17
Or it might be the other way round and I must have prepared a cryptic clue and tagged it "Crossword clue"..
@GarethMcCaughan And answer my last question on that puzzle..
17:35
oh, I thought that could be taken for granted! Done.
18:22
Should we add posts to the list of questions of the fortnightly topic challenge even if the asker explicitly said that it's not meant to be a submission to it?
@LukasRotter Seems like an obvious answer to me...
@LukasRotter Why would you add it if they didn't want it there?
@GentlePurpleRain "During this period, we will compile the list of questions with this tag and post it as an answer to this question. "
There's nothing stated about whether the asker wants it or not.
I don't think there's any reason to force it to be in there if the asker doesn't want it to be. Might be worth clarifying if they are saying that it shouldn't be included, or just saying that they didn't intentionally make it for the challenge. If it's the latter, then you could go ahead and add it.
@GentlePurpleRain Ok thanks, I was talking about this question (see last paragraph)
@LukasRotter I posted a question asking for clarification of the author's intent.
18:33
I read that as "wasn't intended for", not as "specifically excluded from"
Happy Thanksgiving to any Puzzlers for whom it is relevant :)
Happy Thursday to the rest of you lot
18:48
Happy Thursday!
19:03
@GentlePurpleRain It's already Friday in my timezone. Same to you though.
@manshu I was thinking about that as I typed. It's already 7:00 p.m. in UTC, so anyone UTC+5 or beyond is already into Friday.
Yeah, I am UTC+5:30
its 5 hours till friday here
19:21
Let's all agree on Happy Day and Night! :D
19:33
@IAmInPLS Oh no, he's onto me!
@Deusovi HA! It's you then!
@Deusovi Please solve the latest cryptic clue. I'm ready for a different one. (And I'm stumped.)
What is it again?
yesterday, by Sconibulus
cccc: A good score after active Athenian worship. (9)
Yeah, no luck there. I've been thinking about it.
19:41
Sconibulus's last one conformed fairly well to the rules, so I suspect this one does as well. My guess is that there's some obscure word that we're not getting.
I notice that "after active Athenian" has the initials AAA, which is a good score (triple-A) when it comes to rating some things (like sports teams).
Ah, maybe @GarethMcCaughan can help out.
The best I've been able to come up with (which is manifestly not enough) is that a TEN would in some contexts be a good score and that e.g. GREATEN begins with "Gr" (which could be short for Greek ~= Athenian) and ends with A TEN and means something a bit like "worship". Unfortunately it (1) doesn't have anything to do with "active", (2) doesn't have 9 letters, and (3) doesn't fit together in a way that matches the clue.
There might be other words ending in TEN with a similar sense but the wordlist on my computer didn't come up with any plausible 9-letter ones.
I've been scanning synonyms of active, but not finding anything that can be combined into a bigger word.
Is there a way that "score" could be interpreted as a musical score?
The obvious short synonym of "active" is "on" which may or may not be any use.
Or as the number 20?
ah
PAR THEN ON
Not totally convinced that "worship" can mean a building where worship takes place
but never mind
it's kinda evil (but soundly so) in that "after" which sounds like an indicator is simply one part of the charade
19:53
wow, I would have never solved that!
Excellent. I was thinking about parthenon, but I didn't get far because it didn't seem to fit.
I agree that PARTHENON does not equal "worship".
I am ashamed to say I spent a minute or two thinking about PANTHEON before I checked and realised I was getting the two mixed up :-).
Or "Athenian worship"
OK, @GarethMcCaughan; you're up for the next one.
yeah, I know :-(
just trying to think
19:58
CCCC: Casual actor engaged in seduction (10)
(I notice that my CCCC clues have included ass-grabbing, being turned on, and seduction. So far as I know this is mere coincidence. Paging Herr Freud...)
6
20:15
Arbitrary Kangaroo seems to have disappeared abruptly and completely after the MBB affair. Does anyone know whether he left voluntarily, or got kicked off for plagiarism of the Cowper thing (I hope not), or is still around but inactive?
... Ah, I see a note on his profile page: temporarily suspended for plagiarism, 7 days.
That seems a bit harsh.
@GarethMcCaughan It was intentional plagiarism, and, by his own admission, meant to test what happens when you plagiarize. I guess he found out.
I guess.
But, I dunno. The Cowper poem is long out of copyright, so it wasn't an actual copyright violation. It wasn't originally intended as a puzzle, so he didn't steal someone else's puzzle. I'm struggling to see that there was much of an actual offence there.
Well, no, that's going too far
Someone posting that as a puzzle and not deliberately intending to plagiarize should have credited Cowper. Actually, no, because that would have been a giveaway, but they should have said something like "There is an important note I will add once the puzzle has been solved" and credited Cowper in a spoiler block at that point.
So yeah, there was an offence, but one that merits a 7-day suspension? I suspect that anyone who did the same for purposes other than to say how terrible PSE is would have been treated more leniently; i.e., the 7-day suspension is punishment for being annoying and obnoxious as much as for plagiarism.
@GarethMcCaughan It has more to do with the blatant and intentional attempt to provoke a reaction by violating the rules of the site than the minutiae of what was or wasn't under copyright.
I agree that AK/MBB was being annoying and obnoxious, of course.
A first suspension is by default 7 days.
20:22
What happened to him/them?
I dunno. I'm not going to make a big fuss about it, and I can certainly see the argument for what happened. It just feels a little off, is all.
Arbitrary Kangaroo, West Bengal, India
1 5
Sorry, "I dunno" wasn't an answer to BG's question. BG: AK was "Mushroom Bang Boom" and the last puzzle MBB posted before AK owned up to being MBB was a poem about a snail, with the giveaway first and last stanzas removed, presented as a riddle -- with no acknowledgement.
AK said it was meant to see whether anyone caught the plagiarism and reacted accordingly.
(He said this something like 2 hours after posting the puzzle.)
And it appears that now someone has ... reacted accordingly.
20:24
@GarethMcCaughan It may seem a little harsh, but I feel it's setting an example, that intentional disregard for the rules has consequences.
It was discussed by the moderators, and agreed upon.
Fair enough. As I say, I'm not going to make a fuss about it.
Well he wanted to see what happens when you plagiarize. If you hadn't then people would say the mods are weak, so you sort of had to suspend him
Gareth, And your opinion is noted (in a genuine way, not in a snarky, "I don't care about your opinion" kind of way).
It is noted that my opinion is noted :-).
As a mother, I could say that it is natural - if my kids did something on purpose, I would be much more harsh with them, rather than if they did it without realising it is wrong.
20:30
@GentlePurpleRain Does one instance of plagiarism by default result in a supsension?
@LukasRotter There is no default, but anyone who intentionally and wilfully engages in premeditated plagiarism would probably get suspended, yes.
If AK wanted to test the community's ability to detect and sanction plagiarism, he should probably have contacted one of the mods and said "I am going to do X and see whether anyone notices; if it goes uncaught for a week I will own up to it and fix it up". Especially in a case like this where there wasn't anything actually illegal, I would hope that that wouldn't be met with any sort of punishment.
... Though I can imagine the mods being quite unhappy about it for other reasons.
Anyway, back to more interesting topics...
42 mins ago, by Gareth McCaughan
CCCC: Casual actor engaged in seduction (10)
Oooh, I think I can solve this one.
oh, wait.
:-)
20:45
It would have been an interesting twist if you couldn't solve it :D
Hmmm... I'm looking at ATTRACTION as a possibility, but I can't quite make it fit. It's ten letters, means "seduction" (more or less), and contains an anagrammed ("casual") ACTOR. But I'm not sure how to get the ATTIN letters. (IN could come from the literal "in", but then I'm left with ATT and no more words...).
Maybe that will kickstart someone else's thought process.
maybe engaged has something to do with it
I figured "engaged" indicated the combining of ACTOR with something else.
Att: an abbreviation meaning something to be noted (usually regarding a future engagement)
@boboquack That seems tenuous, but possible.
@GarethMcCaughan Is it in fact ATTRACTION?
21:00
The answer is not in fact ATTRACTION.
I figured. Your clues are usually "cleaner" than that.
Does building a super fancy temple not count as a form of worship?
Building a fancy temple is a form of worship but it's not so clear that the temple itself can be called "worship".
oh well, yeah, that's what I was thinking, sorry if it didn't quite fit
@Sconibulus Building it might, but the answer wasn't "building the Parthenon".
21:03
FWIW I liked the clue anyway.
 
1 hour later…
22:12
@Deusovi Another cryptic clue question: can the indicator word and the word it's acting upon both be part of the same compound word? e.g. peanuts -> APE
And are there ever cryptic clues with 3 parts (two definitions + wordplay or definition + 2 wordplays)?
I have seen things like peanuts -> ape before. They would I think generally be considered a little naughty and might get an exclamation mark or question mark at the end of the clue. There are certainly triple definitions (i.e., the clue consists of 3 -- or indeed more -- definitions, with no more-wordplay-ish subsidiaries); I don't think I've ever seen one with >3 parts that aren't all definitions.
(note: Deusovi is a more expert cruciverbalist than I am and if his opinion differs you should probably trust his rather than mine.)

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