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1:11 AM
Ooh, nice! That's a clever one.
I think there's been an "end-counting" one, or something like it, before.
Yeah, there was - "Odd Words", IIRC.
But I don't think there's been one with topology.
1:25 AM
Well, a question about end-counts is really about topology.
1:56 AM
@Randal'Thor: It's extremely obvious that Avigrails puzzle got fewer upvote than it deserves. It's obvious, when you start to look in the details.
8:04 AM
Today is a palindrome day : 6.10.2016. You're welcome.
2 hours later…
9:35 AM
I think this is actual mathematics homework: puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/43796/… but unfortunately it's probably too late to get rid of it before the questioner (who I bet will never reappear) passes off the Puzzling community's work as his own.
9:50 AM
Yes. In addition to the "conjecture", the real question, "How to solve this", feels tacked on. The problem itself isn't particularly interestng, but the answers so far arent't so super, either.
This is closed now.
@GarethMcCaughan: You can turn your 80% surity to 95%, when you see OP joined today, and this is the first question.
10:18 AM
@ArbitraryKangaroo The flag puzzle appears to be solved! :-D
@Ankoganit: I got a similar probably working picture, but it was a lot uglier. Anyway, atleast I didn't make my fifth mistake on the assumption of GP progress - it worked !
I don't get why the edit on this question got approved; It's a simple monoalphabetic substitution cipher. Apparently I always misinterpreted what the tag means?
10:44 AM
I put it back. Definitely a cipher.
@LukasRotter: Why you're telling it's not a cipher ?
No. Look at the revision history, he tagged it cipher, then it got removed again.
@ArbitraryKangaroo Sorry, I was talking about this edit, not Alconja's.
@LukasRotter: Okay, I didn't read it carefully.
Just randomly saying, Avigrail gave three major time savers of his puzzle in the chat: i. All the boxes, which is like his previous puzzle, are exactly same, so no need to check the binary of everyone to see if something else spells. ii. This time no(t much?) URL changing.
11:01 AM
@LukasRotter Sorry. (I approved the proposed edit.) So even a simple monoalphabetic substitution cipher deserves ? OK.
11:37 AM
Q: A weird website

Lukas RotterSo I recently stumbled upon a very strange website: There doesn't seem to be anything except a normal navigation-bar (which isn't working) and a cipher. Can you decrypt it? Maybe the plaintext will tell us how to log in (i.e. username, password)! I have this odd feeling that all other necess...

11:59 AM
@IAmInPLS thanks :)
@IAmInPLS Not in the US sadly, since we put our date format month, day, year rather than day, month, year
@dcfyj Ikr, the metric system, the dates... At least you drive on the right side of the road :p
haha yup. Although, come to think of it, our palindromic day was June 10th this year.
4 hours later…
3:41 PM
Well, how does @Deusovi 's picture shows up in the chat room all the time ? He's from different time zone from me, so is it a mod privilege ?
He just never leaves the room
I'm always in here too.
No, well as he is from different time zone, he must sleep, so I think he keeps it on mobile or something like that, or it's a mod priev.
I'm pretty sure that as long as you don't leave the room (click the leave room button) you stay in the room.
some people just don't turn off their pcs
4:10 PM
Q: The People Of Trutham-And-Ly

McFryHere's an interesting variation on the classical liar puzzles: Trutham-and-Ly is a small town in the north of Logistan. It is divided into two districts, Trutham and Ly, separated by a small stream. Truthamers always tell only the truth, and Lyers only tell lies. While walking over a bridge cros...

I am very curious to see how the "answer" comes "logical" and "unique".
"@ArbitraryKangaroo Yes, the question has a unique and completely logical answer."
there was a pretty good one about all the Lyers being genocided
@Sconibulus, that sounds so cold-hearted :P
4:13 PM
@BeastlyGerbil: When you're posting your casino puzzle ?
my answer went round the bend
@ArbitraryKangaroo, I did post it but had to delete
It appeared that I was the only one which could view the images, everyone else got a 404 error
Working on it over the weekend, will hopefully be ready in a couple of weeks
@BeastlyGerbil: Couple of weeks ?
Yes, it's not just a simple matter of finding a new gif host, I have to change the gfs themselves
Luckily it is just 1 which needs drastic changing
I thought you were just having a weird hosting issue
4:16 PM
The rest just minor
@dcfyj, yes but because the puzzle is interactive I have to change the gifs depending on the host
I'll just use imgur
ah ok
aww, imgur is blocked at my work
Why are you on Stack at work ;)
For those waiting on my part 3, i'm working on it, I need to sit down and think of a good answer to build a riddle around.
@BeastlyGerbil Isn't everyone?
Well I suppose I am when at school
4:20 PM
high school or college?
Why am I on stack at work? My job is something like 40% searching StackOverflow :)
@Sconibulus me too!
Lucky :P
Tis the life of a programmer
Also, my sprint recently ended, so I'm not really allowed to do things for a little while
which is weird, I'm not used to it
4:22 PM
it's an AGILE thing, basically divide projects into individually implementable chunks, group those chunks into about N weeks worth of work to make SuperChunks, the team implements a SuperChunk in the N weeks, called a Sprint, then there are demos and feedback and pushes, and then you start again with the next one
Never heard of agile
Call yourself a programmer :P
I do work in a company that has a grand total of 5 people, that's including the owner...
The big difference is that I'm recently in a government job, so the delay between us saying "Done" and getting through all the review stuff is about a week, rather than a day
and it's driving me slightly bonkers
4:27 PM
Well, at least you have less chance of being caught on puzzling @dcfyj
@BeastlyGerbil Try "more", I share my office with the owner of the company :P
@dcfyj I assume you unfortunately didn't receive the swag? It would be great if you'd come with a puzzling shirt everyday to work :P (if they'd allow it, ofc)
I didn't get it as I was suspended at the time :(
I think I'm on page 5 or 6, so no swag for me. As for whether they'd allow it, I come to work in a Tee-shirt and shorts.
At that was the innocent suspension as well to rub salt in the wound
Need another 100 rep
4:34 PM
@BeastlyGerbil Rand al'thor was also suspended but he received it.
I know but no one thought of me :(
@BeastlyGerbil funny, I'm in the same boat. Except I need 11 or so for my page.
@BeastlyGerbil Well, that's sad :P What was the reason for the suspension?
@LukasRotter, there was a conversation about it a while back, long story short - I was suspended for sockpuppets when I hadn't
@BeastlyGerbil True, he has Marionettes. No flimsy sockpuppets for @BeastlyGerbil.
4:41 PM
@BeastlyGerbil "I didn't do nothing!" :P#
@LukasRotter Double negative!
Currently Puzzling only has two (1, 2) questions where :P is included in the title. This has to change. #FreeThe:P
You posted that first one. :P
Thank you @LukasRotter for posting those, you just made me think of another cipher I can make ^^
5:16 PM
Just made my first user script; Appends a :P to every message I send in this room if it doesn't have it already.
Not sure if I should activate it though, honestly.
Try it for now and see
Already tried it with my removed message; At least it works. But yeah, I'll probably activate it for now for testing reasons :P Some weird/contradictory/inappropriate comments will come from me in the future :P
You you are unhappy about something and then have :P on the end
5:43 PM
Q: Confusing holidays

Beastly GerbilTired of playing games, you decide to take a holiday. You first location, you wander about for a bit, completely lost in the crowds until finally the relative you were supposed to meet spots you. They laugh and say 'Finally, I have been searshing ewerrywhere for you Hugo!' Your second loc...

Anyone want to take a crack at this?
This seems rather stenographic
Nope no steganography
I'm suprised no one has got it. It is jammed full of hints
I'm not, I see a couple spelling errors, (purposeful I'm sure) but nothing else.
5:59 PM
does it pertain to a book?
@Sconibulus ... maybe :P
added literature tag
and you didn't get lost alone, you were with someone each time?
oh, nevermind
well depends how detailed you want to be really, you could say yes
6:05 PM
Just looked up Hugo, apparently it's of Germanic origin.
Is it? Well okay, thats a bit off here
My usual name is my own, and I went to Florida and then the Bahamas :P
Maybe my accents aren't obvious enough, there a load of other clues though
I wasn't answering, I was just making a statement. I came back from vacationing in Florida and the Bahamas last Friday :P
@BeastlyGerbil The accents are the only clue I see.
You'll see the others when you get the answer
6:12 PM
Although, I read the second as French.
They are hidden all throughout
@dcfyj good!
Thats one place down
Being French Canadian probably helps me for that one haha
A: Riddle: When you have me

user1566694Are you... Very often, you'll have me When you have me, you get multiple of me After getting me, you must make me And then all but one of me will disappear

Pure gold that one
That first accent seems kind of familiar, but I can't place it...
@BeastlyGerbil wot, you having a giggle mate?
6:16 PM
@dcfyj if you are french canadian, its probably not
I can't think of an accent that would say 'ewerrywhere' and 'Hugo'
It makes me think of the Germanic countries but that doesn't sound quite right.
Its sort of similar
I'm learning German at the moment so I can see that
The accents aren't the only way to deduce the locations
Is the first New Zealand? (The bottommost result)
If you work out who they are from the other clues, then you can work out the place from the names
6:23 PM
@BeastlyGerbil I know, you keep saying that, but like I said, the accents are the only thing I'm seeing
And no not New Zealand, completly wrong geographically
@dcfyj, f you do get the answer then you'll see
There is a possibility that you don't know who this person is, but that probably isn't likely
I know a lot of information, kind of hard to recall specific bits at will.
Okay hint: predominantly a children's book character, but most adults will also know of them
Then there's a distinct possibility that I don't know/never heard of them
The "ewerrywhere" makes me think of Elmer Fud
6:27 PM
Nope :P
and you might want to add that to the puzzle itself, to be fair to others.
good point
6:41 PM
lol, just came accross this in my search:
The Phantom Tollbooth: One day, a bored young boy named Milo unexpectedly receives a magic tollbooth, which he decides to drive through in his toy car. The tollbooth then takes him to the Kingdom of Wisdom, where he embarks upon many
adventures, including a quest to save the princesses, Princess Rhyme and Princess Reason. This book is full of puns, and an incredible amount of hilarious idioms (i.e. Milo literally jumps to the Island of Conclusions) that will entertain just about anyone who reads it.
that sounds like it might make me cry
from laughing?
I'm going down this list to see if anything strikes me as a possible source for beastly's imagination.
It's making me want to read a fair few of them...
... wrong sort of book ;)
dinner now, will check back later
I figured as much, oh well
7:08 PM
W->V is pretty common, Russia, Germany, etc... V->W is less common, but I think Latin did it. What language is most Latinish?
It also sounds like it could maybe be Asiatic? But I feel like those would be Yugo rather than Hugo
@Sconibulus Someone commented on my answer saying they thought it might be Austrian
Austrian doesn't sound like it would be latinish, it sounds germanic, so would probably be more likely to be everyvhere
Anyone mind telling me why my question is on hold as a maths problem? It has very little to do with maths problems, in fact, I bet the average maths textbook in some high school wouldn't have it... Just goes to show how vague "maths problem" is defined here.
@TheBitByte It's an elementary problem in any sort of Formal Logic course from the past twenty years
Formal Logic is low uni-level maths, from what I've seen
7:14 PM
I'm assuming they meant Boolean algebra, which is what you posted.
@TheBitByte High school, probably not, college/university, most definitely.
I ended up taking that class three times, under three different departments
Comp/Sci, Math, and Philosophy
lol, "Transfer you stupid credits!"
worst part was, each one used a different symbol for NOT
I can see that.
~, ! and a sideways L thing
7:16 PM
~? for which one?
@Sconibulus Well, how much "elementary" it is is up for debate. By that logic, an advanced group theory problem that is even beyond university levels would still be a maths problem as long as some kind of book mentions it, no?
@dcfyj: What is "dcfyj" ?
My user name
~ was Maths, I think
7:17 PM
@dcfyj: What's the meaning of that ?
In Maths ~ means about this much
@ArbitraryKangaroo No meaning, I just hit the keyboard one day and it's been my username ever since. Never had be already taken when I try to get on a new site ^^
I thought that was ~=
I meant like it's ~5 grams, or something like that. Not 2.9+2~=5
You're thinking of the double ~ that looks like an equal sign
I don't remember exactly which went where, it's been many moons. All three are listed as negation here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols
The sideways l thing is math (scroll down a bit)
Oh, didn't see the other one below it
7:21 PM
There was also a 4th, that I think all the classes used? An overline
So I went to use that as much as possible to minimize my personal confusion
but I don't know how to type it
The overline I saw in boolean algebra. like not would be written as a with a line over it.
well, more specifically I saw it in ven diagram stuff.
@dcfyj Oh, venn diagrams. My students in uni just hate those, no idea why.
No idea why, it's not like they're hard. (at least not to me)
They're frequently pointless
Additionally, whenever tests and things include diagrams, it's a subtle excuse for the teacher to make pointed comments about artistic skill
@dcfyj Well, my students find it a bit difficult. Especially the part where I explain the empty set is a subset of itself, and they go like "Whaaaaa??"
7:28 PM
well... yeah, all sets are subsets of themselves
Just like the full set is a subset of itself, just not a pure subset
why would you do that with a Venn diagram though? That sounds like asking for confusion
Because Venn's are sets?
I thought of something to build a riddle about ^^
but how do you draw an empty set on a Venn diagram?
in a way that actually looks empty
Draw a square and then you're done
7:31 PM
@Sconibulus I think he was saying Venn diagrams come up in the sets topic in general.
Yeah, that makes sense, they're good ways to explain Union, Intersection, and Complements and stuff
but I sort of assumed that that would be the first lecture, and then Subsets and Empty Sets and Power Sets would come later
and for those, a Venn Diagram would be a bit less useful, you'd just use the definitions you'd already showed from before
@Sconibulus Oh, remind me then, what is the complement of "(A u B) u C"?
assuming those are Union operaters, everything in neither A, B, nor C
@Sconibulus That's right!
Parentheses don't do much there.
7:39 PM
@dcfyj Maybe. Let me give another one my students hate: "((A u B) u C) n D"
What about it?
Everything that's not in D, plus elements of D that aren't in at least one of A,B, or C
again, these are pretty trivial maths problems
@Sconibulus I agree, but weird thing is I gave it to my undergraduate students and somehow it scares them. No idea why.
A: Confusing holidays

Gareth McCaughanThe first one is in and the second is in Your usual name is You are wearing

Gareth solved it
@BeastlyGerbil Typo in "searching"
7:48 PM
@TheBitByte, that is purposeful
Its Swedish pronunciation
@BeastlyGerbil VTC too broad, in my opinion.
@BeastlyGerbil Typo in "Here"
@BeastlyGerbil In the second quote block. I also just noticed another minor spelling error in "everywhere"
@LukasRotter, they are all purposeful
@TheBitByte, erm, I just accepted the answer. And there are no answers like it
7:53 PM
@BeastlyGerbil I guess I shouldn't have deactivated my ":P" thing. I know it's purposeful, I just wanted to jump on the bandwagon of pointing out intentional mistakes. :P
Oh i thought you were serious :P
@BeastlyGerbil The answer depends on accents and dialetcs, and look how many of them exist...
I stand corrected.
The answer does not really depend on accents and dialects. The giveaways for me were (1) that people who obviously knew the central character called him by different names and (2) the hints worked into the story (lost in a crowd, etc.). I would have solved it almost exactly as quickly without the accents.
So no, definitely not too broad.
... It occurs to me that in view of past events I should maybe explain that I am responding to a comment from @TheBitByte that says "The answer depends on accents and dialects, and look how many of them exist" in support of a suggestion that the "Confusing holidays" question should be closed as overbroad.
anyway, sorry, AFK for at least about an hour now.
@VarunKapoor please stop making these suggested edits. They are defacing the posts and are just being rejected. (This and this)
@BeastlyGerbil yup, wouldn't have guessed that
8:02 PM
Have you heard of it?
@BeastlyGerbil I don't think they're in here?
I think only Mods can ping main-site users from chat
Do you ever feel guilty about getting an answer too quickly?
But then I'm not a person who feels guilt :P
Oooh 17 rep before I'm a first rep page user!
@ArbitraryKangaroo Yep, my computer is just always on, and this chat is just buried in a tab somewhere.
(That's one of four windows I have open.)
8:08 PM
@Deusovi this is terrifying
Sometimes I just close the entire search engine as I have to many tabs open and I get claustrophobic...
@Sconibulus Yeah... I probably should go through it sometime.
Most of them are just things I want to look at later but haven't bothered bookmarking.
Sometimes I click on a tab and can't even remember why I have it open.
I try to stay below 20 per browser window, with not more than three browser windows open
Yeah, so do I.
Yeah, a lot of users make an account and never do anything with it at all.
Also, you're not actually a gerbil?
I think I'd be the world's most intelligent Gerbil if I was :P
And also if I was I'd already be dead :(
@Deusovi This is pure horror for me. I only have as many tabs open as the browser can without decreasing the tab width. It bothers me if the tab width gets decreased... that limits me to 7 on the computer I am right now :P
Assuming the window is full-screen, of course. :P
@LukasRotter But then how am I going to make you all think I'm always watching you? :P
Also, does this mean that whenever you resize your window, you panic and close tabs at random?
8:24 PM
@Deusovi As crazy as it sounds, if I switch the browser into windowed mode, I immediately close the tabs with least significance :P
@LukasRotter ...No offense, but that does sound crazy.
Then again, I'm sure my solution isn't really sensible to anyone either...
@Deusovi At least I can read more than one character of the title from each page :P
Excuse you. When I extend it further I can read two characters.
(That is, until the favicons start appearing and I can only read one again.)
I would be interested in a study on how many tabs a person has open on average. This wouldn't promote spying software at all, of course. :P
And don't wonder, I can't do anything against the :P at the end of each of my comments... They somehow get magically added... Everytime. :P
2000 of our 7683 puzzles have been riddles
8:31 PM
I don't know what to do with Low Quality reviews
usually they're terrible answers that don't fit more than a line or two of the puzzle... but it's not Not An Answer because they did try
75% of my low quality reviews end in me recommending deletion...
A one word answer to a riddle is not an answer
Thats the rule I stick to
I think about 75% of mine end with me clicking the Skip button
with like 20% being comments, and like 5% being spam
@BeastlyGerbil Unless it really is the answer - just without explanation. Explanation seems to be a guideline, not a rule.
For me its a rule
Things like - 'I think it's [spoiler] a pencil
I recommend deletion
@BeastlyGerbil That's something to ask on Meta, it isn't a "for me" kind of thing, there has to be consensus.
8:36 PM
I think it sort of is a 'for me' thing, as it takes more than one vote to either delete or no action
So if one person think one thing the the rest don't it doesn't matter
@BeastlyGerbil But Meta is there for a reason. That's why we have defined close reasons, for example, rather than letting everybody VTC for whatever reason he thinks like.
@TheBitByte, you can ask the question on meta of you really want
@BeastlyGerbil Too lazy, but asking it on Meta just kind of ignores the actual point I was trying to make.
It would be hard to define 'low quality'
Until there is a Meta question, it's perfectly reasonable for people to act in different ways
8:43 PM
@BeastlyGerbil I don't see how this fits into what I was saying.
Meta is to clarify policy in case of contradictions, if nobody thinks the contradictions are worth bothering about, a Meta never happens and people continue to do different things
@Sconibulus Couldn't you also say, "until there is a meta question, I am free to spam"?
No, Spam isn't on-topic as defined in the help center
nor does it contribute in any way to a quality site
There's several specific rules against Spam, actually
IF we wanted spam for some reason, we could put up a Meta to amend those rules
@Sconibulus But you could replace "spam" with another word and show that this line of reasoning is weak.
No... things are either defined on-topic, defined off-topic, or not defined
not defined is where personal preference comes in
Low Quality answers are in this not defined category
mostly because it would be very difficult to define
8:48 PM
@Sconibulus What if there's something clearly wrong, but there doesn't exist a rule against it yet? In this case, personal preference is not involved.
@TheBitByte If it's clearly wrong, in your personal view, then you vote as such. If you think other people are handling it wrong, make a Meta post
if everyone agrees something is wrong, then their personal views on the not defined behavior will be that it doesn't belong, whether or not a Meta exists
If there's enough of them in the category, we might make a Meta talking about it, and perhaps modify some rule or close reason or what not to explain why we don't want them, but that's more so that less of the problem behavior will happen in the future.
There was an experiment like that with the Riddle Sandbox earlier this year
@Sconibulus, sorry I feel bad, I abandoned you to fight this argument (Its a bit pointless to be honest)
I should be working on a puzzle instead, but I'm stuck
perils of persuing pleasurable pithy prose primarily of plosives
8:55 PM
Sorry Emrakul!
Night all...
@BeastlyGerbil Goodnight! :P
9:51 PM
Apropos the earlier discussion of browser tabs: If I've counted correctly then this browser currently has 214 tabs open. That's on my main desktop machine; of course I also have lots open on my laptop and on my computer at work. I would be surprised if the total is less than a thousand.
For the avoidance of doubt, yes, this is insane.
@GarethMcCaughan If I'd use your browser in that state for some reason I'd have a panic attack. :P
Just as well you don't have to, then.
I'm surprised that you actually took the time to count all of them. And also that there apparently is no way to view the number of opened tabs. :P
Maybe there is a way, but I didn't immediately see one.
10:07 PM
@GarethMcCaughan insane? Then you haven't seen Google Search's servers
@LukasRotter Unless you have some sort of extension.
@TheBitByte Sure, I meant that the browser in it's standard form doesn't have such options. It could've been perfectly included in the "Reload all tabs" option with "Reload all X tabs". But I guess it's an information only some people rarely would use, so they didn't bother (which is understandable) :P
Q: How to get tab count in Chrome desktop without app/extension?

jsejcksnHow can I view the number of open tabs in Chrome (desktop) without installing an app or extension? On Chrome for iOS it's easy, just look in the top right for the number: I have seen this question posted before, but asking for app/extension recommendations. I would like a solution which does ...

Not everyone knows about this, sure, but it's there, assuming it still works in the latest Chrome version.
I can't check on mobile.
10:29 PM
I haven't, as it happens, seen Google's servers, but I'm not sure what would be on them that would bear on the question of whether it's insane to have a thousand tabs open. I am not using Chrome, though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some way to get the tab count out of Firefox.
10:51 PM
One more day...
@GarethMcCaughan If you use firefox tab groups extension (that replaced the built in version) it shows the count for each group - I have 8 groups with 28, 12, 22, 25, 10, 24, 66, 43 tabs respectively (230 total)
Q: Should puzzles be solvable without looking at the hints?

TheBitByteImagine I made a puzzle. Imagine I then get lots of good answers, but to make the puzzle more specific, I add a hint. The puzzle is hard to solve correctly without having to look at the hints. Are these types of puzzles allowed?


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