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1:09 AM
1
Q: Dividing the first 20 numbers into 3 lists

Dmitry KamenetskyPlace every number from 1 to 20 into one of three lists $P$, $Q$ or $O$, such that any number from $P$ added to any number from $Q$ gives a prime. What is the fewest number of elements that can be in $O$? Good luck!

 
1:38 AM
@Avi I've seen homophone indicators for multiple words like that
but there's a plurality mismatch with "platters", and a part-of-speech mismatch with "full"
and I'm not sure how "in" gets there exactly
 
Avi
1:59 AM
(inside = in), the after shouldn't be there
in any case, i need to choose better target words :(
 
right, the 'after' was my concern
 
Avi
i need homophone indicators
whatever I'm finding here doesn't cut it. this list is slightly better, but also insufficient
is "execution" an indicator for tail deletion?
is "cut in half" valid for taking half of a word (before or after synonymizing)?
 
2:20 AM
I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for, but that list looks fairly comprehensive
execution for tail deletion: no
cut in half: yes, though if synonymizing I would make sure the word is fairly long (because asking someone to synonymize and then only take two or three letters might be pushing it)
 
Avi
Wrongfully cut in half, reported by crowded testimony (8)
it's 3 letters
 
also, "partial homophones" aren't generally done (though it depends on the publisher)
 
Avi
EVI(-lly) + DENCE (from dense)
 
normally it's either entirely letter-based or entirely sound-based
 
Avi
partial synonymizing, not partial homophone here
 
2:22 AM
my bad, I was unclear - by "partial homophone" I mean "homophone that only gives part of an answer"
 
Avi
oh, :(
think of these questions as motivation for you to write new guide quicker, and also a way to gather points that you need to put in it :)
 
from a sort-of-draft I wrote a while back, the details on specific clue type restrictions:

- anagrams, letter extractions, and hidden words must be direct (no synonymy)
- hidden words must be "full" (no combining with other pieces). homophones should also be full
(these are largely due to convention, but there's a good justification behind them - breaking those often leads to a massively increased search space for your solver)
these aren't universally followed, especially the homophone one, but I think they're pretty close
 
how about removing first/middle/last letters?
and odd/even letters?
 
Removing single letters: can be indirect
Odd/even letters: must be direct and full
 
@Deusovi ic thanks
 
2:30 AM
(again, these rules are probably not entirely universal, especially among more libertarian setters, but if you follow them you should satisfy everyone)
 
Avi
2:40 AM
Ooh, I think I have a good one
Wild animal chases men (6)
COUGAR ddef
 
That basically works. I have two objections to it (not strong enough to invalidate it exactly, but they make me unenthusiastic). First, the two definitions involved are kinda the same: the "man-chasing older woman" meaning is surely just using the "man-eating predator animal" one as a metaphor.
Second, "chases men" isn't quite a definition of "cougar". "Chases men" and "person who chases men" aren't the same thing.
(Another part-of-speech sort of thing.)
It's not that unusual for slightly-sloppy setters to use that kind of not-quite-definition but I find it a bit unsatisfactory.
 
"Wild animal that chases men" will do?
 
(Some people might also object to it on the grounds that that usage of "cougar" is improper, demeaning, sexist, etc. Personally I don't think putting something in a cryptic clue implies any sort of endorsement of it and so am not bothered by such concerns, but I can see why some wouldn't like it.)
Yes, "that chases men" is an improvement.
 
Avi
3:03 AM
Fast, line up, disgusting (5)
Q + U + ICK
Maybe a this will help you write a guide, @Deusovi?
 
Hm?
@Avi line is "queue"; "queue" is not "q"
 
Avi
How is that not a thing???? Ridiculous
 
for the same reason "eye" is not I? they're different words
 
Avi
homophone indicator will kill the brevity:(
 
Well, as see can clue C, i believe queue can clue Q, but not line
 
Avi
3:18 AM
Fair enough, I can live with that
 
I don't think either of those can be used
 
Avi
The headless substitute, indeed inside throughout (10)
 
We should make a chat room specifically for discussing CCs
 
Avi
(-r)E(VERY)PLACE
Yes, you should :)
 
you can go to my home ;)
 
Avi
3:32 AM
I’m tempted to make it “The headless substitute was indeed inside throughout (10)”
 
that new suggestion doesn't work - the "was" is extra
and the insertion grammar doesn't work out
 
Avi
For the old one? Headless substitute, indeed inside
 
no, the new one
(also, the "the" in the first is unused)
 
Avi
True
 
Avi
3:46 AM
Ok, another try:
Empty restaurant starts to stop alien entertainment (7)
Hopefully ET counts as an abbreviation for extraterrestrial
C(-hick-fil-)A + BAR +ET
actually, it can just be: “Empty restaurant to stop alien entertainment”
Much cleaner, though still depends on the validity of ET
 
4:16 AM
"alien"=ET is very common, but again, you're synonymizing and then taking only two letters - that's definitely bad
also what does "starts to" do?
 
Avi
“to stop”=“bar”
 
not sure about that "to" there - seems to be a tense change to me
and what does "starts" do then?
 
Avi
Nothing
 
yeah that's a huge problem
there should never be any unused words
 
Avi
If you read my message below that, I said it could be replaced with “Empty restaurant to stop alien entertainment”
 
4:21 AM
still has the problem of synonymizing and taking only two letters
that's very unfair to the solver - there are so many restaurants that there's basically no way they can pick the one you're thinking of
 
Avi
True - maybe say: “Empty restaurant to stop extraterrestrial entertainment (7)”
oh, the restaurant is also a problem
 
the restaurant was what I was concerned about
"alien"=ET is very common, to the point where solvers will write it in any time they see the word
 
Avi
Maybe replace it with California
California to stop alien entertainment (7)
Wow, that sounds so much better on the surface too
Next CC: Dash an insider waltzing (7)
D(AN)ING - fat RIP, I forgot the C
Dash able to mix up insider waltzing (7)
D(CAN*)ING, but that’s not allowed, I think
Insider can mix up dash waltzing (7) should be fair, though
D(ANC)ING
Ok, I’m done for tonight. Puzzle hard, y’all
 
4:56 AM
"insider X Y" doesn't mean "X inside Y"
indicators should directly tell you how the words are arranged, not just be near the words they act on
(I don't mean to be harsh here, sorry if I'm coming off that way! Trust me, these are a lot better than the clues I wrote when I was first learning)
(also, good night!)
 
 
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0
Q: The Land of Vehicles

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1:52 PM
0
Q: Two equal-sized lists that produce prime sums

Dmitry KamenetskyPlace one or more distinct numbers between 1 and 100 into the lists $𝑃$ and $𝑄$, such that they contain the same number of elements and any number from $𝑃$ added to any number from $𝑄$ gives a prime. What is the largest number of elements that can be in $P$ and $Q$? Here is a similar puzzle:...

 
2:33 PM
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2 hours later…
4:57 PM
0
Q: I shall Keep Watch for My Family

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5:38 PM
@PiIsNot3 Maybe another?
Oh, wait, I see you gave one
Okay, I've pinned it
 
 
1 hour later…
7:01 PM
0
Q: Finding the placement of two other points in relation to one central given point in a sphere

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3 hours later…
9:46 PM
0
Q: Cryptic Battle: Welcome to PSE!

PiIsNot3 Inspired by jafe's Double feature series. The following is a hybrid Star Battle and diagramless cryptic crossword. Solve the clues and the grid, then place the clued words in the grid in a logical manner. Rules of Star Battle1 Place some stars in the grid. Each row, ...

 
10:19 PM
@GarethMcCaughan
Probably best to not clutter up the comments.
I see the problem with the clue I pointed out now (misread the definition, thought it could be a noun). And I'm not particularly uncomfortable with the second-last clue.
 
@Deusovi Yeah, hopefully the edit clears that up
 
Fair enough. My current conjecture for the second-to-last is too parochial, in some sense. It might well be wrong.
(I had a really nice idea for how to fit the words in but I don't think it can be made to work.)
 
(Same.)
 
(to the idea for how to fit the words in, or the parochiality of the penultimate answer? or both?)
 
(To the idea of how to fit the words in.)
 
10:31 PM
ugh, I have a conjecture I hope is wrong for the second clue. (It would require the clue to be slightly unsound.)
 
I'm not sure how the clue works if it is sound.
 
maybe via a short word meaning "found"? not that I can think of one
 
"saw" is the only one I could come up with, and I don't see any wordplay that could give it
 
@Deusovi @GarethMcCaughan I hope the edit makes it clearer what's going on. I wasn't sure if the word I used was a valid indicator or not
 
oh
I'd say the first version, definitely not
 
10:37 PM
OK, thanks for the feedback, I didn't really give it much thought when I first wrote it
 
"Found" was fine. But it needed an "in" after it.
 
yeah
 
(Unless you were intending a cheeky "in dia's ..."
)
 
Nah, I wouldn't do something like that ;-)
I know "some" works without "in," I guess I thought that also applied for "found"
Anyways, thanks for the feedback! Let me know if there's any other concerns with the clues :)
 
only that at least one of them appears to be too difficult :-).
 
10:42 PM
I have a guess for the antepenultimate clue and nothing for the last one
(but I haven't figured out all of the wordplay for my guess, so it may be wrong)
ooh, new idea for assembly - let's see if this works out
 
I have an idea for assembly too but it's missing some details
 
I'm not too hot on the third to last clue as well, but I couldn't find any better term to make the surface sound passable
 
My idea seems to be working out very well
but I don't have room for both of my two missing words?
 
my idea is still missing some details and I have some size-mismatches; looks like you're ahead of me on the assembly as well as the clue-solving.
hmm, I have another completely different idea for inserting the words which shows promise but doesn't actually work
 
10:57 PM
oh, I had used a word twice
 
no, my second approach is definitely no good
 
alright, I have all but the last clue (and my guess for the one we were stuck on is questionable)
 
If it helps you all at all, there's no trickiness involved with the word placement - you're placing the words as they are onto the grid to form a valid crossword
 
yeah, I've successfully placed the words
 
and Deusovi is romping home!
 
11:12 PM
answer posted - still don't have that last word though
 
Argh, I really want to fix the third to last clue, but I can't without spoiling the entire surface
 
I think you have the wrong last letter for the last clue
 
Possibly! That comes from my guess at the third clue, which is possibly very wrong.
 
ah, I think I know what the third-to-last one is
but haven't looked at the wordplay yet
hmm, maybe not
ah, got it
so, third to last is Roger Federer minus his last two letters, before Al Capone -> FEDERAL ~= cooperating
and the game is WE + FLOWER< = WEREWOLF
I noticed all the Es but (duhhhhh) never thought of putting them on top of the stars
I got fixated on the obvious but completely wrong idea that stars were obstacles to placement
 
Like I said, I wasn't too hot about the third to last, but it's what the thesaurus gave me, so eh
 
11:17 PM
and spotted a number of things that yielded 13 spaces of almost but not quite the right sizes
e.g., if you imagine putting solutions between the stars (1) on rows, (2) in columns and (3) within pieces, whenever there are >= 3 spaces to do it with (letting them run around corners as needed for #3) you get 13 places. (If you use only one of the two paths around the P.)
or if you again let the solutions run around corners within the blocks then there are 13 places again
in neither cases are the sizes quite right, but in both cases they are not so far from being right that I was sure it wasn't worth trying to find some sort of tweak
I had a brief glorious thought that, since as well as all the Es there are quite a lot of Ss and Ns and a few Ws, they might indicate what directions to turn in when placing solutions snaking around inside blocks.
Then I noticed that one of my answers was EWE and gave up on that one :-).
 
Darn, I guess it really is possible to overthink a puzzle :)
 
yeah, I also considered compass points, and kept thinking that the stars were blockers
 
Maybe I'll make another one with one of those mechanisms
 
Anyway, a well deserved victory to @Deusovi!
(something something diamond battle)
 
(I was going to remark on how "cryptic battle" turned out to be more appropriate than PiIsNot3 probably realized, but I was busy trying to fit words together)
 
11:25 PM
@Deusovi Heh, well with the sheer number of brilliant minds around here, it's bound to happen
 
Avi
can somebody explain "ahead of stream's return, we game (8)" being WE + FLOWER<?
 
"stream" = FLOWER
 
stream = flower
 
i.e. "a thing that flows"
"ahead of FLOWER's return, WE" -> WE ahead of (REWOLF<)
 
Avi
so it's "ahead of stream's return, we" and "game"?
 
11:29 PM
Using "flower" to indicate that the name of a river is needed is an old cryptic-clue trick; the other way around is unusual.
 
yep - Werewolf is a party game
 
@GarethMcCaughan Better than saying "ahead of daffodil's return"
 
Avi
that sounds unfair completely
 
unfair? hm?
 
Avi
oh wait, no - it's fair, because it directly is a flower
some supplicants are available right now (2)
 
11:32 PM
_UP_?
 
Avi
yeah, that was fast :(
but hopefully it was a fair clue
 
yep, seems fair to me!
 
@Avi I just thought it was neat how "stream" could related to games and can also mean a flow-er
 
an observation from a friend of mine: "thieves = knickers = bloomers = flowers = rivers = renders = displays"
 
Avi
your friend is more devious than you are D:
But I suppose you are more Deusovi than your friend :o
displays = showers
 
11:38 PM
So I guess if someone comes asking for help with fixing their computer monitor, I should give them a bunch of roses?
 
yep, I was looking for something to continue the chain with "shower" (though now the chain has been 'reversed', in a sense)
@PiIsNot3 Or give them underwear, or let robbers into their house! I'm sure they won't complain.
 
Avi
well showers could be rains?
but that seems like it's insufficiently vague to continue the chain
thieves = knickers = bloomers = flowers = rivers = renders = displays = showers = drippers = leakers?
 
= whistleblowers?
 
Avi
ooh i like it
what about "spreaders" - if you leak something, you spread it around
 
Where would that go to though?
 
Avi
11:51 PM
i'm sure we can come up with something to do with pb&j
thieves = knickers = bloomers = flowers = rivers = renders = displays = showers = drippers = leakers = spreaders = distributers = wholesalers = marketers = promoters ?
 
I was thinking leakers = whistleblowers = conductors = metals = genres = ...
Gotta get as great a degree of separation as possible :)
 
Avi
but then it doesn't end with ers :P
 
Actually "leakers" could also mean "thieves," so we got ourselves a nice little circle
@Avi Neither does "displays"
 
Avi
sadness
killed at the very start
 
Anyway, I gotta go, I've been sitting in front of this computer for a long time now
 
Avi
11:54 PM
alright, toodles
@Deusovi Is it alright if I make it a puzzle to figure out a way to connect renders and showers, but only ending in "ers"?
 
Hm? Like, asking "can you connect renders and showers with only words ending in ers" as a question on the site? That would be opinion-based.
 

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