The Sphinx's Lair

@Avi Synonyms -- both as the overall definition and within the wordplay portion -- have to match in part of speech and any conjugation/declination. I'd say this is a fairly ironclad rule, even by the most libertarian setters (though I may be wrong about that).

Avi

well, you could replace it with "committee accommodation"

problem being that you lose an "s" off the italics

Gareth McCaughan

12:29 AM

yeah, that would be an improvement (aside from whatever unacceptable consequences it may have for the italics)

Deusovi

And yes, the 'surface' refers to the way the clue is read before any cryptic parsing is done - in the best clues, the surface looks like a 'regular' English sentence and distracts from the intended meaning.

Avi

i think my last one is the best one, in that regard

Gareth McCaughan

I have to say that PiIsNot3's current C4 manages to distract from, well, everything, without having a surface that looks like a regular English sentence.

(I guess it's "regular" in a different sense, namely approximately periodic)

Deusovi

I can't argue with that.

Gareth McCaughan

anyway, actually going to bed now. Bye!

Deusovi

12:34 AM

Night!

Avi

Ok, I fixed the tense, but the answer remains unchanged

flavor text has changed slightly, but it doesn't alter the key point

Deusovi

sounds good

I've solved another clue (the title).

Sphinx

1:04 AM

0

Q: Density type puzzle 5

A puzzle in the spirit of this puzzle. I've tried to make it a bit tougher this time, though there are no distractions of any kind. Enjoy! Final answer: (4,5)

Dmihawk

Jens has really taken off with the concept! :)

Avi

it's pretty tricky though

I prefer having more hints at the get-go, but to each their own

Omega Krypton

3:38 AM

19

Q: "bees" -> "hive" in 5 letter changes or fewer

Example of "warm" -> "cold": warm worm word cord cold Notice that it's a real word each time. Can you get from "bees" -> "hive" in 5 letter changes or fewer?

word english word-ladder

is this too trivial? there are online solvers

Deusovi

The problem isn't that it's too trivial, the problem is that it's not clear what counts as a real word, so answers are subjectively correct.

Omega Krypton

closing as too broad, anyone supporting? no objectively and uniquely correct answer

Omega Krypton

4:05 AM

@Deusovi another easy one for you ;)

Deusovi

Hm?

Sphinx

0

Q: The Age of Jobs

OP's Words I shouldn't really ask this at this time, just when I see @Deusovi answering another enigmatic-puzzle a few seconds ago. But, here you go! The Puzzle Many years ago, Macintosh does not have a place in the technology field. Nokia was the beacon, the headlight of the kingdom of te...

word knowledge enigmatic-puzzle story

Omega Krypton

a puzzle from me

the time zone looks very advantageous for ya

Deusovi

hm, interesting

Omega Krypton

refined title plus some ntoes

PiIsNot3

5:06 AM

@OmegaKrypton I’m tempted to remove those notes at the top cause they aren’t really part of the puzzle ie they’re just filler

Well maybe the part about where you took inspiration from can stay, but the rest should probably be removed

Alconja

IMO "notes" like that should just go as a comment under the post, rather than in the puzzle itself (unless arguably it's a deliberate hint, and thus part of the puzzle)

PiIsNot3

Already edited it out :)

Omega Krypton

@PiIsNot3 thanks, it's fine for me as well

PiIsNot3

5:30 AM

@OmegaKrypton hey, if you have some free time, we need one more for Contact

Omega Krypton

5:44 AM

sorry in lesson :P @PiIsNot3

Sphinx

8:50 AM

4

Q: Enjoying a rest from the long commute!

You ask me where I used to work before I was retired? Perhaps you’ll know if I tell tales of workers that I’ve fired... The first who came and worked with me was fresh from Ivy League, But at twenty-two her labours brought her burn out and fatigue. The second one could rival her, ...

riddle

Sphinx

1:13 PM

1

Q: Middle-of-the-day intoxication?

Considering all categories, I've selected some examples of multiple winners and put them in order. However, I have a problem deciding where to put the one remaining entry on this list. Here's my ordering so far: Small village AlEvel Day Daaay Daaaaay Merlot, Pinot Noir, Syrah Honey...

knowledge enigmatic-puzzle

Sphinx

2:34 PM

0

Q: Producing My Position

Usually, I'm seen at a mass movement, Or alongside some cutting bloke. A keen eye can be rude about me. My sister was there when God spoke. Many would say I'm a sequence, Passed between fixed amounts of me. The French say I go in Switzerland. In some fish, I show enormity. ...

riddle word wordplay

Avi

2:55 PM

Ok, going to be practicing CCs soon

Is it valid to do: "CC: Mysterious vault sound (7)"?

Definition: mysterious (cryptic)

Wordplay: vault=crypt, sound=tick, where "sound" also indicates two homophones

Omega Krypton

@Avi nope. a word can only perform one purpose

alternative: Mysterious vault with insect sound (7)

John Dvorak

3:16 PM

@OmegaKrypton unless it's an &lit

Avi

;(

is there any way to say "ordering is optional"

Wolff

Hi people.

Avi

so like "mysterious sounds from insect vault"

but vault comes before insect

maybe like "echo" for reversal? because echos come back to their original source

"mysterious sounds from insect vault echo (7)"

Wolff

Does this make sense as a CC? "Sailor strikes small headless bird first. (6)"

Avi

3:32 PM

uh, what's the definition and the wordplay?

Omega Krypton

@JohnDvorak oh yeah

Wolff

Def: "Sailor strikes"

(might be too cryptic)

Avi

Mutiny?

Wolff

yes

and why?

Avi

(-e)MU + TINY

Wolff

3:40 PM

yeah!

Avi

you can't do that, by the way. MUTINIES corresponds to "sailor strikes", MUTINY corresponds to "sailor strike"

Wolff

Ah, I meant "strikes" as a verb

Isn't that allowed?

Avi

mutiny is a verb

a "mutiny" is an event, where sailors mutiny

John Dvorak

still mutinies either way

Avi

for MUTINY, "sailors strike" would be valid, "sailor strike" would be valid

Wolff

3:43 PM

OK, I didn't realize that I couldn't do that.

Avi

for MUTINIES, "sailors' strikes", "sailor strikes", "sailors' strikes" would be valid

Wolff

I thought "Sailor strikes" could mean "the event where a sailor strikes".

Avi

the sailor mutinies.

a sailor mutinied.

Wolff

I get that. Just didn't realize that the def couldn't be more of a riddle in itself.

How come "sailors strike" would be allowed?

Avi

Sailors mutiny (together).

Wolff

3:49 PM

So for example "Man runs" can't mean "exercise"?

Avi

no

Wolff

Must be the same kind of word and in the same case (if that's the right word).

Avi

same conjugation

Omega Krypton

or same form

Wolff

That's the word.

How about this simple one? Almost stressed over extreme wasteland. (6)

Avi

4:10 PM

extreme wasteland sounds like "desert" to me

stressed over is stressed< = desserts

almost takes off the end, so you get (-s)TRESSED<

but unfortunately, DESSERT means something completely different from DESERT

...

Wolff

the def is just "wasteland"

"extreme" was supposed to indicate that you should loose the "s" in the middle.

But I guess it should be "extremes"? In which case the sentence doesn't make sense.

Avi

CORED, DISHEARTENED, EMPTIED, EMPTY, EVACUATED, FILLETED, GUTTED, HEARTLESS, HOLLOW, LOSING, HEART, UNCENTERED

Wolff

"empty" is good for this. I just found "extreme" in this list.

Avi

Endlessly stressed over empty wasteland

Wolff

Haha. I like that.

Gareth McCaughan

4:37 PM

I would usually expect "empty" to signify removing more than just one letter from an 8-letter word.

(typically it would mean keeping just the outer letters)

One other cute notation for the same process that I've seen a couple of times recently: "on vacation". ("vacation" = "vacating" = "emptying".)

Omega Krypton

@GarethMcCaughan nice!

Avi

4:51 PM

Empty heart protects the future (7)

O(-rga)N + WARDS

although i am suspicious of onwards/the future

and also heart -> organ

booo

Deusovi

Agreed with Gareth that "empty" means "all but the outer letters". (And I really like "on vacation!")

and also agreed that "heart -> organ" is probably too little of the synonym used to justify synonymy, and it should be "in the future" for "onwards" rather than "the future"

@Avi No, but you can use "after"/"east of"/"succeeds" for that type of thing

Sphinx

6:18 PM

3

Q: Colombian Sudoku

Fill each empty cell of the board on the left with a digit between 1 and 6. Each column and row must contain all digits. The dots outside the board on the right indicate how many cells in the corresponding column or row of that board contains precisely the same digit as is to be found in the sam...

grid-deduction

0

Q: How to make the number 49?

You've to start with $1$ and can use each of the following operations at most once. You can do the following in any order you like: 1) Add $2$. 2) Add $3$. 3) Add $5$. 4) Multiply $2.$ 5) Multiply $3.$ 6) Multiply $5$. How to make the number $49?$

mathematics calculation-puzzle formation-of-numbers

Avi

6:38 PM

alrighty

To be eyes (2)

wait no, that doesn't work

PiIsNot3

@Avi Is that supposed to be IS? I (sounds like "eye") + S, def "To be"

Avi

yeah

problem is the "sound" hint

PiIsNot3

Yeah, you need to indicate your homophones for it to be fair

Luckily there are tons of alternative ways to clue a word that don't sound awkward

To be a top secret (2)

would be I (a -> "one" -> I) + S_

Avi

sneaky!!!

PiIsNot3

To be fish guts (2)

Avi

6:45 PM

grossss

PiIsNot3

Would probably also be _IS_, with "guts" as a clue for a hidden word

So yeah, there's lots of ways to clue the same word, just experiment a little until you find something that sounds good :)

Avi

to be skinned alive by snake (2)

PiIsNot3

@Avi Ooh, that's a nice surface!

+1

Avi

Is it okay to say something like "The most important thing", and then have that be the definition for "ESSENCE"

PiIsNot3

@Avi Yeah, I don't see why not

Avi

7:24 PM

does "under" mean anything if it's not a up/down/left/right crossword? (just a cryptic clue)

Gareth McCaughan

8:02 PM

I don't think "to be" is an acceptable def for IS, I'm afraid.

Avi

what is an acceptable definition, then?

remove the "to"?

be skinned alive by snake (2)

MW says: is
Definition of is (Entry 1 of 4)
present tense third-person singular of BE

need feedback on this one as well:

CC: little one, turn back - losing the tail of your back, oh, woe before the primal heaven crossed the currency of men (8)
(URCHIN - HIN(-d))< + SAD + O + S(-ky) = CRUSADOS

Gareth McCaughan

8:19 PM

an acceptable definition needs to mean the same thing. There are dialects of English in which "be" sometimes means what "is" does in "standard" English but I don't think that's enough to make "be" a suitable def for IS.

PiIsNot3

@GarethMcCaughan Maybe something like “was in the present” would work better?

@Avi How is the HIN of URCHIN deleted?

Gareth McCaughan

Not convinced by "the tail of your back" for HIN because "hind" doesn't mean "your back". "Oh, woe" for O seems a bit dicey too but I think it's defensible. I don't like "the primal heaven" for S(-ky) because (1) "the primal" really doesn't mean "beginning of" and (2) it feels like there must be rough synonyms for "heaven" beginning with pretty much every letter of the alphabet, so the wordplay isn't really telling you anything.

Also, what's "of men" doing?

Avi

O WOE is not O

it's "oh, woe before", so, SAD + O

the heaven is a bit sketchy too - might just put "the final heavens"

PiIsNot3

Also I would comment that you don’t really want to include too much wordplay, unless it’s a long phrase

Of course, it’s up to you how you want to clue a word, but just keep in mind the surface reading and make sure it sounds at least semi-natural

Avi

fair enough - I'll probably just use a different word instead of crusados - I have options :)

Gareth McCaughan

8:32 PM

oh, sorry, for missing the SAD. In that case I have a different issue: I don't think "woe" is a good clue for SAD.

(Would be kinda OK for SADNESS.)

Avi

good point

woeful would be closer to sad

Gareth McCaughan

I guess Donald Trump's Twitter-use of "Sad!" might be a rough equivalent of "Woe!" as an interjection, but both of those are pretty atypical and they don't match one another very well :-).

(I guess there's also "sad" as in "i haz a sad", but tumblr memespeak isn't exactly standard either.)

PiIsNot3

@Avi Endless religious expedition for necessary, essential currency (8)

CRUSAD(-e) + _O_ + _S_

Avi

CRUSAD(-e) O S?

PiIsNot3

Just something I came up with, maybe it’ll inspire something for you?

Avi

8:37 PM

how'd you get the S?

Gareth McCaughan

I don't think I like "for necessary essential" -- if you're going to take "essential" to mean taking the middle, shouldn't it take the middle of the whole thing it's attached to? ("Essentials" might work, but of course that spoils the surface reading.)

Yes, I am picky :-).

Avi

let's try doubloons instead

"dou" could be "endless gloom"

Gareth McCaughan

gloom?

Avi

"dour

Gareth McCaughan

dour = gloomy, not gloom

PiIsNot3

8:38 PM

@GarethMcCaughan I guess it depends on the clue setter :)

Avi

I swear, I need to read the dictionary in more detail

Gareth McCaughan

Cryptic clues are difficult to solve; if you aren't scrupulously careful about them then they become unfair to the solver.

3

Avi

^ this is soooo true

if you make a slight mistake, it's really really tricky

PiIsNot3

Maybe something like this then:

Endless religious expedition obtaining top, necessary, essential currency (8)

Avi

the surfaceeeeeee D:

PiIsNot3

8:40 PM

Lots of similar adjectives to describe the currency though

Avi

what do you call an indicator telling you to take the first letters?

Wolff

How does "obtaining top, necessary, essential" become OS?

Gareth McCaughan

Vineyard's top award: two Spanish coins (8)

Avi

O(-btaining) + (-nece)S(-sary)

Gareth McCaughan

(cru's + A + dos; the def is "coins" not "Spanish coins", which is a deliberate misdirection)

Avi

8:44 PM

ooooooooh - super sneaky! I like

PiIsNot3

Oh, I can prob edit my clue then to do that

Wolff

@Avi Still don't get it. Are they "special" words?

Avi

top is special, essential is special

Wolff

Ah sorry I get it

PiIsNot3

Endless religious expedition obtaining top, essential Russian currency (8)

Avi

9:08 PM

Snubbed twice and promptly smacked for money (9)

DOUBL(-e) + SOON* = DOUBLOONS

Wolff

Can "and" and "for" be disregarded?

Avi

I don't know - I hope so. The "and" just means that OONS comes after DOUBL

Wolff

And "smacked"?

Like "scrambled"?

Avi

smacked is an anagrind

Gareth McCaughan

"and" meaning "one thing and then another" is fine. "[wordplay] for [definition]" is fine; the other way around would be worse. Not keen on "smacked" as an anagrind but I suppose it's defensible.

"Beaten up" would be better, I think.

Avi

9:19 PM

yeahhhhhhh let's beat people up with puzzles

Snubbed twice and promptly beaten up for money (9)

Perfect old face, on a coin (7)

might even be &lit as well, but not exactly

awh, shoot - it doesn't work. Ignore that :(

there we go ... again :( it doesn't work

Wolff

9:36 PM

Can "ends" be used to move a word like "after"?

Avi

yes

which is why the CCCC is sooooooo evil

Wolff

Money weirdos ends brief suspicion (9)

Avi

Coin face coin time (7)

this one actually works I believe, and it's nasty

Wolff

What's the def? Coin?

Avi

who knows :)

i'll probably end up using this one in an actual puzzle

Wolff

9:42 PM

Nice and short - can't guess it.

Do you like my doubloons?

Avi

loons are crazy people not weirdos?

Deusovi

hm, can you get URY from "face coin" somehow?

Avi

no

treasury is 8 characters anyways

Deusovi

that's not what I was trying to get

Wolff

@Avi Seriously? That's strict! Then: Money nuts ends brief suspicion (9)

Avi

9:49 PM

Money-crazy chase with short hesitation (9)

money (def)

DOUB(-t) + LOONS

century? doesn't work

Wolff

"with" can be used as "and"?

Avi

probably?

Wolff

where does the "s" in "loons" come from?

Avi

good point, looks like I fail my counting class - you can just make it (8) then

Coin face coin time (7) <- go go go :)

Wolff

I'm thinking!

Avi

9:54 PM

ok I'll wait, good luck

Wolff

"coin face" could be "obverse"

Avi

how so?

Gareth McCaughan

obverse and reverse are the two faces of a coin

Avi

oh you poor child

don't go down that route + thanks Gareth

Wolff

10:15 PM

Right now I'm going no route... I'm stuck

Deusovi

I wanted to get CENTURY earlier, but that was already disconfirmed

it's also possible that "coin" means "create" in some way

as in coining a term or a phrase

Avi

10:32 PM

closer

Avi

10:56 PM

is "partially" a valid indicator to subtract the last letter?

Deusovi

hm, I don't think so

though some people may disagree

it's not really specific enough IMO - I'd say "partially" is a fine hidden word indicator, but that's about it

Avi

which of these would you say are synonymous: "platter", "plate", "dish", "tray"?

"serving" too I guess

Gareth McCaughan

@Avi Regarding our earlier conversation, it might amuse you that today's Guardian crossword appears to have a clue in which "is" clues BE.

Avi

nice :) it seems at least somebody agrees with me, whoever they may be

Deusovi

(ew)

Avi

11:06 PM

would "capless label" be (-cap)TION?

Deusovi

all can be synonymous except plate-tray and dish-tray, I think (and maybe there are contexts where those work)

it could be! it could also be (-c)APTION

Avi

sneaky

feel free to use that - I have no interest in it

Gareth McCaughan

The same crossword has a few other clues that are definitely just not quite correct, so I don't think it's strong evidence that be/is is acceptable.

Avi

That's unfortunate. The answer to my previous CC was COIN + AGE

Deusovi

Explain the definition?

Avi

11:10 PM

Now I have a new one: Sneak inside after hearing within full platters to avoid (12)

Coin face coin time (7)

Def: coin face (a coin's face, or the impression left on the coin after being minted, called a "mintage")

Gareth McCaughan

(The setter appears to think that Ben-Hur was some guy with first name Ben and surname Hur, and that "includes" is the same as "is included in".)

Avi

Wordplay: coin (mint - to coin something is to come up with something new) + age (an age of mysteries, a time of mysteries)

Deusovi

@Avi so your answer is MINT+AGE, not COIN+AGE?

Avi

mintage

coin + time for wordplay, my bad

Deusovi

that uses essentially the same definition of "coin" twice, which is generally at least stylistically bad

Avi

11:12 PM

it would be super gross to have coinage as my answer and include the word 2 times

well, no

the first is "the face of a coin"

the second is "the making of a term", "a period of time"

Sneak inside after hearing within full platters to avoid (12) - for this one, the "after" is slightly suspicious

Wolff

I'm not getting that "aha" sensation...

Deusovi

hm, I misspoke - it's more of the same etymology. I feel like both "mint" in the def and wordplay come from the idea of 'mint' as in a factory that creates things, which is the same connection to "coin"

Avi

that's true, in some sense

after all, minting coins is only a process - it's hardly ever talked about after the minting happens

would be nice if it had more alternate meanings

Deusovi

(well, "mint" does have more alternate meanings - a small candy or a particular plant, for example)

Avi

true, but then it would probably be too obvious

coin face candy time or coin face plant time?

Deusovi

11:17 PM

well, you should also be writing your clues with an eye for surface

Avi

like, the surface is not there

Deusovi

the surface isn't there for "coin face coin time" either

Avi

coin face, coin time

face time

Deusovi

Huh?

Avi

FaceTime is a video conferencing software

Deusovi

11:18 PM

yes, I'm aware of that, but that doesn't really show up in the surface

Avi

true

why are good clues so hard to make

Deusovi

The "surface" means the reading of the clue as a bit of regular text. A clue with a "smooth" surface is one that looks just like normal English text - a sentence that someone could feasibly say

Avi

yes, I understand this, from how many times my clues have no surface :(

Deusovi

making clues with good surface readings takes practice

a lot of practice

Avi

10k hours pls

~0+~0=~0 was the godlist thing I've seen in my entire life

PiIsNot3

11:24 PM

Is it time for another C4 hint?

Avi