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12:08 AM
@as4 Gelvat onfr gra V trg hc gb uggcf://v.fgnpx.vzthe.pbz/C2vFZ.cat ohg gura V trg vagb n pbagenqvpgvba ng annf^gng :C.
V'z fhfcrpgvat onfr rvtug
 
@as4s4hetic o/
@boboquack that was on OzCLO?! We had that one on NACLO open round too hahaha
 
@as4s4hetic Just for information, how much effort is solving one of these problems meant to be for their intended audience?
 
@GarethMcCaughan We got 6 hours for 5 problems.
(but most people don't solve all of them completely)
 
if most people solved all of them completely it wouldn't be much of a competition
 
ok, gotcha
 
12:32 AM
@Doorknob it's got attribution at the bottom, can't read it
 
huh, the NACLO one was apparently slightly different
 
V pbhyqa'g trg rvtug gb jbex, gelvat onfr avar naq gura ryrira
 
@boboquack gurer ner jnlf bs fbyivat vg gung qba'g vaibyir oehgr sbepvat onfrf :C
@Doorknob (incidentally, the majority of the NACLO one was solvable without actually figuring out the number system because there's only two magic squares with a 9 in the top middle and one has a top row of 294, which happens to be the number they use as an example. that's how I "solved" this one :P)
 
how did this yup'ik duplicate happen? did the two competitions happen on the same day?
 
NACLO open round was late January, and according to the OzCLO website theirs was in March...
 
12:40 AM
@Doorknob I don't think NACLO releases their past papers immediately..
 
repeating my earlier point: these linguistics questions need some math gurus to help revise them
 
@as4s4hetic yeah, but that still seems kind of odd
 
@Doorknob yeah agree, OzCLO always steals problems from old NACLO and UKLO papers, it's really dumb
 
huh we had #2, #3, and #4 from here pretty much verbatim this year
(er, last year I guess)
 
@Doorknob :/ that's annoying (for Australia)
Next year I'll apply to join the Australian question making committee
Actually I don't even think we have one
 
12:44 AM
you do, it's just in the USA apparently
 
hahahahaah
and UK, one of our problems a few years ago was written by Ellie
ooh @Doorknob did I send you the question that Sam wrote
 
don't think so
 
Ok I'll send it when I get home
@boboquack V'z abg fzneg rabhtu gb trg vg jvgubhg oehgr sbepvat gur onfr, ohg V qvq aneebj vg qbja gb nebhaq 3 cbffvovyvgvrf V guvax naq gur frpbaq bar V gevrq ghearq bhg gb or vg :C
@GarethMcCaughan I'd say the Birom question should take a maximum of an hour and a half, and it was voted as the 2nd/3rd most difficult question out of 5 this year
>:C Abui
 
1:02 AM
V'ir gevrq rvtug, avar, gra, ryrira naq abar jbex :C V guvax orpnhfr bs gur obggbz yvar gur onfr vf yrff gura ebbg bar-gjragl-svir fb yrd ryrira, fb V'z gelvat frira abj...
 
@as4s4hetic the Abui problem is the bane of my existence
@boboquack uru, gung yvar gevpxrq bar bs zl grnzzngrf vagb pbaivapvat gurzfryirf vg jnf onfr svir (vg jnfa'g). qba'g cnl gbb zhpu nggragvba gb gung
 
WHat is this?
 
LInguistics
 
:> welcome
 
@Wen1now how dare you be on this site and not know what that is :P
 
1:06 AM
Far out. I thought they were speaking in a different language
Initially I thought 'rot13' but for some reason I thought it looked pronounceable, e.g 'uru, gung yvar...'
@everyone What do we do about answers that are duplicates/don't add anything new to existing answers?
 
@doorknob, @as4 Jung V'z pheeragyl guvaxvat: an ir zrnaf 'naq' (nf n cynpr inyhr frcrengbe), onxheh ov... zrnaf (onfr) gvzrf k, snn vf fbeg bs yvxr unys bs (onfr)
Why am I so bad at copying the rot13 encoded version of the message?
 
@boboquack ba gur evtug genpx! gung ynfg bar vfa'g dhvgr evtug ohg vg'f pybfrvfu
 
gur funn- cersvk gbbx zr jnl gbb ybat gb svther bhg ;-;
 
V nyfb gubhtug 'xheh' jnf (onfr) fdhnerq...
 
@boboquack lbh qba'g arrq gb svther gung bhg lrg, vg'f abg vzcbegnag hagvy gur raq
 
1:20 AM
lrnu, fvapr vg'f onynaprq ba obgu fvqrf V'z whfg vtabevat vg
 
bobo li pali pona
^is that correct ;-;
 
bbu, znlor 'snn' pbhyq zrna 'zvahf k' zbq (onfr)
 
@as4s4hetic it'd have to be jan Popo, since there aren't voiced stops :P
 
What?
 
! forgot the jan
jan Popo li pali pona ^^
 
1:24 AM
oh, you're not talking about me
 
but we are ^^
 
haha
it's toki pona for "bobo is doing well"
 
<- will probably accidentally spoil something, so is trying to talk in a language only doorknob can speak
<- can't actually talk in that language
 
what in the world
are yall summoning eldritch horrors from the abyss
no doing that in the chat room
 
We are summoning the great Ivan
 
1:35 AM
mi mute li toki ala e ni tawa akesi: ona li kama
(okay, normally as a mod I'm supposed to be the one telling people to speak English :P)
 
Oh good doorknob is here
I was thinking of asking after you
 
@Doorknob akesi? o_O
 
@feelinferrety hi! what did you want to ask?
 
I have no idea what you all are going on about
 
I can't understand what you're saying
why did you use akesi
 
1:43 AM
@as4s4hetic toki pona animal words are fun, akesi is the general term for "non-cute land animal" (there used to be a word monsuta but that's no longer a thing)
 
@Doorknob I think it was you, can't remember. Are you in TX?
 
@as4s4hetic "we're not summoning eldritch horrors" basically
@feelinferrety yep
 
@Doorknob yes, how'd you weather that weather
 
@Doorknob oh eldtrich horrors right
ohhh I interpreted "toki ala e" as "talking here"
 
@feelinferrety it hasn't been awful for us, but it's still going on (although today was sunny for the first time in a while)
 
1:46 AM
:) suno estas bona
 
Good, i knew you were near ground zero
somebody please tell me about this linguistics thing
 
Are we supposed to know about the number systems in the benue-congo branch of the atlantic-congo family?
 
@boboquack pssh nah
 
O_o only 120 root words I should learn that sometime
 
yeah, toki pona is a really simple language
 
1:54 AM
also since when did TSL turn into a linguistics chat
 
@feelinferrety bobo is doing problem 1 from this year's IOL
which as4 beat me on by getting a perfect score :)
 
TSL is a "whatever we want to talk about at the moment" chat
 
wait wat is everyone here still in high school I feel so old now
 
@Deusovi to the point where the name of the language can be translated as "the simple language"
the word for "good" also means "simple," because why are you speaking toki pona if you don't think simplicity is good?
 
@Doorknob meanwhile doorknob got three times my score in total because too good
toki lili!
 
1:56 AM
@ASCII-only Several of them are, yes. A few others in college.
 
> Toki Pona is an invented language that borrows from Dutch, English and Chinese
O_o
 
AND ESPERANTO
 
oh it's many more languages than that
 
@Wen1now Downvote, for now. Better guidance for this is coming Real Soon Nowâ„¢, I hope.
 
V pna'g svaq n onfr gung jbexf... obb ubb
:P
 
2:02 AM
@boboquack want minor spoilers (i.e. the base), or are you going to keep looking?
 
didn't he just say he figured out the base?
 
in Contact, 3 mins ago, by micsthepick
micsthepick defending I
 
@as4s4hetic I thought they said the opposite
 
oh oops
 
@Doorknob going to keep looking (haven't found the base yet)
@as4s4hetic I was wondering why you used that emoticon
 
2:06 AM
ok the yay face seems really insensitive now I flagged it bc I can't delete
@boboquack >-< I'm sorry
 
@boboquack I don't think they expect you to have prior knowledge of anything really
 
insert all the "no external knowledge required" memes
 
haha yeah, no prior knowledge is expected
 
^ but everyone comes prepared anyway
 
some more prepared than others... coughtaitwocough
 
2:10 AM
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
ok but taione/two came very prepared, just not for the actual competition :P
^*still wins team comp*
 
oh I was referencing the competition part, wajah tersedu-sedu
 
why does problem 1 seem like 100% maths to me
 
@ASCII-only because it is :>
 
yep pretty much
 
then what does it have to do with linguistics 0/10 VTC offtopic
 
2:14 AM
it's math in a different language :)
with a number system that works very differently than ours
(ok this one in particular isn't very weird though)
 
(isn't very weird until you start counting above 1000)
 
@as4s4hetic this... sounds kinda like a hint :P
 
nah it's because at closing ceremony the author of the problem said something about the number system changing for bigger numbers, went on to explain it for a while and give literally all of us heart attacks, THEN mentioned that it wasn't relevant for the problem
 
squints
:O the 125 must be a clue
 
2:22 AM
It was hilarious when she said that
 
@Doorknob So is this the only country with maths worse than that of countries that still use Imperial units?
 
HAHAAHAHAHHA
I'm imagining someone going like
 
Yay equations
I think I just turned an IOL question into an AMC one yay
 
"Man, that's a lot of pineapples. I'm gonna have to invent my own counting system to count ALL THOSE PINEAPPLES."
 
@as4s4hetic This is the guy in the maths problem that buys 726 pineapples, and buys another 273 more right
 
2:28 AM
yep same guy
 
2:39 AM
@Doorknob How long do you get
 
6hrs for 5 problems
 
3:03 AM
still struggling
 
any new conjectures on the base?
 
jryy, V whfg qrpvqrq gb pbhag gur ahzore bs qvssrerag qvtvgf naq gurer'f ng yrnfg avar
fb vg'f onfr avar cyhf
 
that is correct
 
nyfb, gurer ner svir 'graf' qvtvgf, fb gur onfr vf ng zbfg gjragl-sbhe fvapr gjragl-svir gvzrf svir vf bar uhaqerq naq gjragl-svir naq gung'f gbb ovt
 
also true
 
3:10 AM
bxnl, vg'f abg avar, purpxrq gung ntnva
be gra
abe ryrira
V gubhtug V gevrq onfr gjryir nyernql!!!!
 
hahaha
 
3:31 AM
We were waiting for this moment xD
@boboquack Onfr gjryir vf n ybg zber pbzzba guna frira, rvtug, avar, gra naq ryrira
 
4:10 AM
@door @as4 uggcf://v.fgnpx.vzthe.pbz/BTt84.cat
I can't be bothered putting an explanation
qb gur ahzrenyf unir gb or va qrpvzny?
 
@boboquack nice!
@boboquack the solutions don't have to be in a particular format
 
is that right?
actually, I'll just check the iol website
yay, they're right
 
@boboquack Why would they be wrong :P
 
@ASCII-only question 3 I could have got the tones wrong
 
the major insight was rdhngvba fvk, juvpu bayl jbexrq sbe bar frg bs ahzoref nffhzvat onfr gjryir
you may also note that in an utter failure to do basic arithmetic I somehow managed to get xheh rdhny gb guvegl fvk at first :P
 
4:25 AM
Hmm, so I'm working on that question now
You can find the base using arithmetic, no need for brute force
But what does gwe gwinin mean? D:
 
@ffao have you found the base already? :0
@ffao hahahah yeah I was freaking out about that but it turned out fine :)
 
Sebz gng^annf = ... gng naq annf^gng = ... annf, unys gur onfr qvivqrf obgu sbhe phorq zvahf sbhe naq guerr gb gur cbjre bs sbhe zvahf guerr
Gur bayl ahzore svggvat vf fvk
 
@ffao :0 ubj qvq lbh trg annf naq gng = sbhe naq guerr
 
@as4s4hetic Annf naq gng orvat nalguvat ryfr jbhyq znxr gur rkcbaragvngvba tb bire bar uhaqerq gjragl-svir
 
I wish there was a built-in rot13 chrome extension...
 
4:36 AM
yeah, that'd be nice
 
@ffao jung nobhg gjb naq svir...
 
Should I have a go making a chrome extension?
 
Oh, so I did make an assumption, it was just so natural I never questioned it
Orpnhfr bs xheh naq onxheh V nffhzrq sebz gur ortvaavat on jnf gjb
But you're right that I might have had to roll back and try the other possibility if this hunch were wrong
 
Yep I did the exact same thing
I just kept second guessing myself and ended up getting super confused so I moved on and came back to it like an hour later :P
 
Are the results available online?
 
4:48 AM
I'm getting my grades back oh lord
 
So, um, I figured out what gwe gwinin means, and it turns out my reasoning about how the numbers are formed was completely wrong
And it worked for all equations in 1
I feel like I'm playing Zendo, I found a rule that worked then came B with the counterexample
 
@ffao a very accurate description of linguistics :P
And science in general
You can normally assume your theory is correct, until you find a counterexample :P
 
Any more linguistic questions?
 
So this is the "make wild assumptions and hope for the best" competition? xD
 
4 hours and 45 minutes - yes, phew, I would have solved it under exam conditions :P
 
5:02 AM
I can get behind that
 
and with schoolwork on top I think that's alright
@ffao yep
 
@ffao I DID THE SAME THING!!!
@boboquack More linguistics questions!
do you want to keep doing number ones or like semantics/rosetta stone
 
Sid
Wow... Puzzling has turned into linguistics
Also, apparently it was raining in New York a few hours ago
 
@Sid More like maths puzzles in random languages
 
5:25 AM
I don't mind, but I'd prefer maths
 
5:48 AM

 Maths Puzzles in Random Languages

room name says it all
 
6:26 AM
@ffao I noticed that at the very end, panicked, then realized it was actually not a problem :P
@ffao oh I didn't notice that, I didn't even consider the two "ba"s as being the same
but that does make sense
@ffao if you do that for all five, things probably won't turn out too well for you :P
especially on Abui this year... sigh
 
@ffao Well, postulating laws and abiding by them are two very different things. :)
(But I don't think I've really "postulated" the law that A of B can never be B A. In some cases it works, in the general case it doesn't. John's and my examples don't work, I think, but G love could cryptically mean "love of gravity". The quibble with that isn't the grammar, in my opinion, but that G love really isn't a thing, whereas blister = B lister = second-tier celebrity, for example, is a thing, sort of.)
 
7:02 AM
@Doorknob (gun eared)
 
sedu-sedu
 
hey sedu is an anagram of deus
 
contact is only 931 messages behind TSL now!
 
We should go for another round of Contact then
 
 
2 hours later…
9:20 AM
@ffao Well more make logical deductions and hope for the best, but... that's essentially it
 
Sid
10:01 AM
Gah, this C4 has stumped me.
I have no idea how to start
 
@Codegolfers I'm struggling to understand why on a test compiler the first program crashes and the second succeeds. The test is tomorrow, so...
fin=open('psychin.txt','r')
info=fin.read().split()
cards={int(info[i]):i+1 for i in range(13)}
fin.close()

k=[]
for i in range(13):
    k.append(91-sum(cards[13-j] for j in range(i+1))-cards[13-i])

fout=open('psychout.txt','w')
fout.write(str(max(k)))
fout.close()
fin=open('psychin.txt','r')
info=fin.read().split()
cards=[0]*14
for i in range(13):cards[int(info[i])]=i+1
fin.close()

k=[]
for i in range(13):
    k.append(91-sum(cards[13-j] for j in range(i+1))-cards[13-i])

fout=open('psychout.txt','w')
fout.write(str(max(k)))
fout.close()
I can't discern a noticeable difference
yay, halfway through my metapuzzle
 
Hmmm, perhaps the test interpreter is old and doesn't know the {k: v for k, v in whatever} comprehension?
 
10:37 AM
@boboquack What's in psychin
If it's running Python <2.7 then that's probably your problem
exhibit A:
https://tio.run/##ZY7NDoIwHMPvfYplpy0G4p/5BQlPAhwWAR3IWAATjfHZcXDQg722/bXuOV17q@bZ2LpPOec5iLADgbY4IsYeFEHhhANIIfKJcHQ3MwmeWy5x1kM5pi9jJ7EQMlPIxGyI1f3ADDOWDdpeKkFKvtGmWYF/IwHzakPtXGVLEVMw3juxgjNSQVOssObX8Xwpg2/AT8INy4NOP0Qr5Tx/AA
exhibit B:
https://tio.run/##bY1NDoIwGET3c4qmq1YD4aP4gwkngS6IgBakNAUTPT2CJrpxtvPmjXtO18GqeTa2GTLOeQEiJCBQhANS7EAxFI7YgxTihQhHdzOT4IXlEufSV2OWR3pDCZrBM8OMZb60l1qQkqd3nxs7ifUgN1rqzGwJXZbrfzzYki4snattJVIKxnsvPhJSQavZuml/m8UlZfAFFj@cX@/68iE6Kef5BQ
 
Sid
max is an in-built function in Python?
 
@Sid Yes
 
Sid
That spares the trouble of extra lines of code, I guess.
 
D:
> 170 bytes
 
Sid
10:51 AM
That's awful. :P
 
@boboquack Hmm, is the AIO harder or easier than Google Code Jam
@Sp3000 I know D: but he said get rid of the extra lines :P
 
You could have just done exec("...") :P easier to think about
 
@Sp3000 D: but that's cheating
 
Sid
Hmm, AIO allows students to write in PHP. I wonder who really does that. :P
 
also extracted i/o out which means I golfed ~50 bytes less than it looks like :P
 
11:02 AM
I uh... don't think bobo asked for you guys to golf his program
but this is great xD
 
Needs more golfing :P
 
11:15 AM
@Sp3000 Sorry I'm terrible at golfing
 
:P just teasing
 
But... I guess I could port it to Charcoal?
And somehow not be able to make it shorter than in Python :P
 
11:31 AM
0
Q: Explorer's dilemma

Mea Culpa NayAssume that you are a professional explorer (of geographical landscapes) and you are on an exploration of a desert in a northen hemispherical country during a mid-summer. Before you started your exploration, through your friend-cum-guide of that specific area you were informed that a solar powe...

 
12:23 PM
^ Does that qualify as a puzzle? I'm leaning toward probably, but still not sure
 
 
1 hour later…
1:30 PM
It's a "puzzle"
 
Arguably it's a better puzzle than the damned IQ test dumps we still get periodically - at least there's an actual answer
 
0
Q: Time in a black hole does it stop?

Peryhan MolokhiaDoes time stop in a black hole since photons orbit sphericaly around it and not within .?do photons get absorbed in a black hole or do they just circle outside it's no enter zone?

 
2:05 PM
Why do VLQ posts even exist in the first place D:
 
Sid
@Rubio can you migrate @Sphinx question to Physics.SE?
 
Like Rubio said, the question is unlikely to fare well there.
 
No
If for no other reason than it's already answered there; see my comment.
 
It's not worth a migration. Dumping low-quality questions on other sites isn't good for either site.
 
First rule of migration: Don't migrate crap.
 
Sid
2:08 PM
Actually, that question would probably be accepted in chat and not on main site.
 
Second rule of migration: Do opposite of what Mith says
 
@n_palum nah, I'm just repeating what Shog says
 
Third rule: Ignore the lies about repeating Shog
 
@Mithrandir first rule of migration: don't talk about migration
 
Third rule of migration: Do not think about migration :P
 
2:10 PM
:( I just lost the Game
 
>:D
 
Anyone up for Contact?
 
 
@ffao but I just copied boboquack's solution
 
yes, that algorithm was very clever for golfing
although I think in the AIO they care more about it being efficient :P
 
Sid
2:34 PM
What is "being efficient"?
 
working fast?
both mine and boboquack's golfed solutions are slower than necessary to save bytes
to oversimplify, usually in these competitions your codes are expected to parse inputs of 100000 integers in around 1 second
 
Sid
Gah. Of course, there is that "time" thingy..
 
these solutions would only get to around 2000 before taking that much time
But the "time" thingy is the whole point of the competition ;)
making a program that works slowly is usually easy
 
hi @deus, I have a sort of request for you...
 
Hm? Go ahead.
 
2:39 PM
I have created a rather large puzzle - as in it has multiple parts. One of these parts is a cryptic crossword variant. I am awful at making cryptics - so as not to ruin the puzzle I was wondering if you would be interested in doing a sort of joint puzzle and writing the clues?
Don't worry if you can't, I can always make it an ordinary crossword :)
 
Sure, I'd be happy to. How many clues? Any gimmicks?
 
I think there are 56..
 
Sid
@BeastlyGerbil You can write the clues and mail them to Deus for checking, I think...
@BeastlyGerbil Holy....
 
^^ You can do that, too.
 
2:41 PM
56? :o
 
@sid then I'd have to rewrite the all :P
Some of the words are very small and easy
(A few nesseccary two letter words for instance)
 
small words aren't necessarily easy to write good cryptics for
 
Sid
Small words are harder...
^^
 
I'm not too bothered about quality - though yours usually are. I just would rather some valid cryptics instead of some bad ones :)
 
At least the bad ones would be easier XD
 
2:43 PM
Like I said, if you want to write them and send them to me for checking, I'd be happy to do that too. It's up to you.
(Also, "usually"? :P )
 
If 56 is a lot, then others could also help write them. Don't mind....
@deus fine, always ;)
 
Sid
But, that would shrink your solving group, I think.
 
If it's not a perfect CC it didn't come from Deus
 
I'd rather not attempt writing. The puzzle involves another clue and it took me half an hour to write a good one...
@sid true...
Although helpers would still be able to solve the rest of the puzzle
 
Is there any reason you want cryptics over quick clues? Say, that the grid has a gimmick and it needs additional confirmation?
 
2:45 PM
It'll probably end up being a TSL community solve anyway ;)
 
@deus it fits the general puzzle better..
 
We could just -not- input answers from our own cryptics :P
 
Actally thats a good idea ^
 
Fits the general puzzle better? Hm?
 
As in this a part of a larger puzzle, and a cryptic crossword would make much more sense than a normal one...
Plus makes it a bit harder :)
 
2:47 PM
Huh, okay. I don't entirely understand, but that's fine. I'm sure I will when I see the finished puzzle.
 
(My planned flavourtext also revolves around cryptics)
Are you happy to do them all or would you like others to help ?
(I'm not bothered about how long it takes anyone who helps btw)
 
I'd be happy to do them, but it would take me a while, and I still don't quite understand why this puzzle revolves around cryptics if you don't think you write them well.
 
Sid
What were those cryptics? Those Devil something?
 
There are a few others - and I managed to make a few cryptics for them - but I doubt I could write good valid cryptics for all the others without it taking me till Christmas next year...
I'm still not confident enough to attempt so...
@deus should I email the word list then?
 
My "Plenty of Clues" is only 43 clues total, and it took me the better part of several hours to write.
Granted, it had several gimmicks I needed to incorporate, but still - it took a while.
 
Sid
2:53 PM
Wasn't there a Devil-something gimmick cryptics?
 
It took me half an hour to come up with a single good clue I was happy with...
@sid hmm?
 
@Sid Printer's Devilry?
 
Sid
AH, Yes. Printer
 
> 43 clues
> Several hours
That sounds... fast :P
 
Exactly...
 
2:59 PM
yeah, that was pretty fast for me
 
okay sent...
There are a few odd words in there - but couldn't be avoided. Thanks a lot!
 
3:46 PM
Just looked at them - a lot of them are obscure, and don't really seem cryptically cluable very well.
(@BeastlyGerbil)
Can I see the grid? Or maybe there's some other way this can work?
 
Yeah I know - I tried to make sure most of them were easy words - but unfortunately I couldn't manage to do so for every word...
I'll email a snap shot
Sorry... internet is slow...
sent...
oh wait no.. My internet is playing up sorry
 
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