The Sphinx's Lair - 2017-01-13 (page 3 of 4)

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Gareth McCaughan

3:00 PM

yeah, it's easyish to solve one island, but after that it's not so clear what to do next...

0

Q: A Trip to Ripple Islands

All aboard! All aboard! You have won an ALL-EXPENSES PAID TRIP to the magnificent Ripple Islands! Now, the only price of admission is to solve this little puzzle. It is a Ripple Effect puzzle based off a map of the luxurious Ripple Islands! The water, of course, doesn't need to be filled with nu...

logical-deduction grid-deduction

@GarethMcCaughan By the way, the best part about that eye is that I didn't put that in there. It's an actual icon on my desktop! :P

Gareth McCaughan

Wow!

It's from this program

Puzzling — BOUNTY!

4

Q: MathJax: ones and zeros

Do or do not, there is no try. — Yoda Here is another MathJax puzzle. The Starring MathJax puzzle involved handling numbers in MathJax, even though there are no count registers or numeric operations implemented in MathJax. This puzzle continues with that theme. Goal: find the minimal repl...

computer-puzzle open-ended mathjax

TrojanByAccident

3:04 PM

I've figured out another island

Gareth McCaughan

well done -- you're cleverer than I am

TrojanByAccident

well, sorta anyway

I've discovered something that can't work

soon to have something that must work

Gareth McCaughan

or luckier, or paying less attention to other things, or something

TheGreatEscaper

Wow, which one?

Hey!

TrojanByAccident

3:05 PM

top left

TheGreatEscaper

Oh, okay. I thought you had fully solved an island

TrojanByAccident

lol

Hunt starts in two hours :D

Gareth McCaughan

I think it might be quicker to write a computer program to solve the puzzle and then run it. Is that allowed or is it meant to be no-computers? :-)

(well, that's kickoff - puzzles are released about an hour after)

TheGreatEscaper

3:05 PM

no-computers!@!@!

@GarethMcCaughan Please no :-(

@TheGreatEscaper Might want to add that tag then

Yeah, grid deduction puzzles are meant to be solved manually

Gareth McCaughan

that's what I thought

TheGreatEscaper

They aren't puzzles if you make a program

Get back to stackoverflow

:P

3:06 PM

I hope you didn't use a program on mine :P

Gareth McCaughan

tee hee

no, I didn't use a program on yours

that was easy enough to do by hand

I wouldn't think so, it was pretty easy

Gareth McCaughan

but I get bored quickly :-)

TheGreatEscaper

@Deusovi Ripple Islands was my attempt at making a ripple effect puzzle with a LOT of unconventional deductions

Go ahead and write a program to forfeit your right to solve it :P

TheGreatEscaper

3:08 PM

@Deusovi is it worth getting up/staying up for the start of MIT?

Depends. What time is it for you?

TheGreatEscaper

It seems like a really huge team thing. So probably not much point in me being awake for the start?

Yeah, it's pretty big. We'd be happy to have you here for the start, but if you can't, that's fine too

I'd rather be coding/playing a game :P

TheGreatEscaper

its 11:10 pm right now for me, I wasn't really planning on being around for the start unless it was expected or something :P

3:10 PM

nah, get some sleep - you'll need to be in prime puzzling condition for the hunt :P

Although, from the sound of it, it starts in the middle of my workday

The colours are basically irrelevant, right?

TheGreatEscaper

Yup. There's nothing dodgy here, it's just standard ripple effect with a large empty space.

I just thought the colours would look nice :P

TrojanByAccident

Well they don't

ntbr

I think they look fine, but I also don't have visual problems (that I know of)

TheGreatEscaper

3:14 PM

Different strokes :P I included a plain white version for a reason

@TheGreatEscaper not adding your latest to the fortnight post?

OK, I've solved another segment.

TheGreatEscaper

@dcfyj we're supposed to ADD our puzzles to the meta post?????

Gareth McCaughan

well done! east or northwest or somewhere else?

TheGreatEscaper

Everything else I've posted for a fortnightly appeared by itself

3:20 PM

@TheGreatEscaper Um... yes...

TheGreatEscaper

I always assumed it was a bot...

D:

Thanks to the mystery person maintaining the fortnightly!!

I'll add this one myself :)

I think Lukas was doing the maintenance of the FTC

RottersSlave is still posting them.

TrojanByAccident

@Randal'Thor what if we assume that 2 is above 1?

@TrojanByAccident Where?

TrojanByAccident

3:32 PM

@Randal'Thor on the left-hand side, posted before I saw your edit

@Randal'Thor On your latest edit you pictures are inconsistent.

(look at the last two)

TheGreatEscaper

I don't think your filling out of the island is logically correct. Your first contradiction is fine, which lets you fill out that little area of size 2

@dcfyj Where?

@TheGreatEscaper OK, let me double-check.

TheGreatEscaper

But I'm not sure if you can work out THAT much of the island...

Oh never mind, I misunderstood the paragraph

TheGreatEscaper

3:37 PM

Ah nevermind

It seems fine :)

I've double-checked and it still seems to be valid.

Oh good.

TheGreatEscaper

(Sorry, that was the island that tripped me up even on my own check-solve, despite having designed the contradiction)

(I don't know why but apart from the time I designed it, I can't get my head around it nicely :P )

Oo, now we can make some cross-island deductions.

TheGreatEscaper

:D

TrojanByAccident

@Randal'Thor can you explain why the 1 in pink must be there?

3:47 PM

@TrojanByAccident Because it can't be next to the other 1?

(assuming I'm right about which 1 you're referring to)

I think he's talking about the bottom left island, there's no reason (that I can see) why the ones and twos couldn't be flipped.

@dcfyj The bottom left? That's where I started by assuming they were flipped and coming to a contradiction.

Although pretty much the same situation arises with the bottom -ish middle-ish island

TrojanByAccident

@Randal'Thor why can't it be to the right?

nvm, I see

@TrojanByAccident Because then it would be next to the brown 1!

TrojanByAccident

3:52 PM

wait no I don't

hold on

(1 is one of the few numbers I can put at the end of an exclamation without ambiguity.)

@Randal'Thor Ah I see the contradiction, it's the twos

TrojanByAccident

why can't the threes and 1s be switched?

@TrojanByAccident Which island?

TrojanByAccident

8

3:53 PM

8?

TheGreatEscaper

I think Trojan means that central one

TrojanByAccident

above the big one at the bottom

@TrojanByAccident Because I assumed they were and came to a contradiction.

TheGreatEscaper

Hes labelled them going left to right, top to bottom I think, hence he referred to it as 8

If you switch the 1s and 3s you get a 3s contradiction

wait, I flipped a 1 I shouldn't have

TrojanByAccident

3:55 PM

I see now

TheGreatEscaper

Interestingly, that island in the middle just above the big one is the ONLY island in which I couldn't find an argument which doesn't use contradiction

The rest of the puzzle is 100% solvable without contradiction arguments, fun fact

Contradiction might be easier in many places, though :P

@TheGreatEscaper I've done the same, but only in the alt text of my images ;-)

TrojanByAccident

And what about that 4?

What about it?

TheGreatEscaper

It can't be anything else

TrojanByAccident

3:58 PM

ah

TheGreatEscaper

I'm heading to bed

night

TheGreatEscaper

Youre starting to reach the cool parts of the puzzle

But it is quite difficult

And contradiction arguments will be more difficult to use

So as a last piece of advice, I suppose, remember that tiny island in the bottom left that rand solved with contradiction?

The 'pure' logic solution for that island is that there are three 2s on the island

the island has height 3, therefore no two 2s appear in the same column

of course, there's 3 sections :P

TheGreatEscaper

Therefore there is a 2 in each of the three columns, therefore there is a two in the leftmost column, which only has one space available.

TrojanByAccident

4:05 PM

In the big bottom island, why did you put the 3 in that pink spot to the right, @rand?

TheGreatEscaper

this sort of argument will become much more useful from this point in

Anyway Gnight, have fun with the puzzle!

I've done the bottom island.

@TrojanByAccident Because if 3 was at the bottom of that pink L, then 3 couldn't be anywhere in the green line.

@TheGreatEscaper Goodnight! Thanks for the fun puzzle!

Should I post it as a partial?

TrojanByAccident

@Randal'Thor ah

4:13 PM

@ShadowCat Sure! But I may try to solve it myself without looking at what you've done :-)

Oo, now I'm getting somewhere in solving that island too.

TrojanByAccident

agh

@Rubio Your explanation to the 1st one wasn't what I had in mind actually..

It was the best I could come up with

What was the intended construction?

But, yeah, I would give it to you...

The ON came from "Opposite of OFF"

opposing != opposite, really, but ok - that sorta makes sense :)

I got tired of looking at it honestly hehe

4:21 PM

I know that but I could think of anything else. Wanted to use contrary but, that was just used in the CCCC.

I prepared that puzzle in 10 minutes. No wonder, it didn't get a good response.

@ShadowCat nice, Simon's cat, love those clips.

@incesterror21 what about them?

4:38 PM

Posted. Only took 25 mins to clean up the paint scribbles into proper images. :P

4:58 PM

There we go, now I've completed the bottom island.

shame I saw this puzzle too late looks enjoyable

@BeastlyGerbil It's not solved yet :P

Yeah but don't want to deny someone else who has already put time into it :P

You could always solve it for yourself :P

I'm just going to start making a puzzle out of the first piece of rubbish that pops into my head and hope it works out well :P

5:02 PM

Have fun with that

You just described most of my puzzles. :)

(for some value of "rubbish", anyway)

And mine :P

@Rubio I guess you've been reading the newspaper recently then? ;-)

Print is dead. (--Egon)

TrojanByAccident

@Rubio print(' is dead')

5:14 PM

boo.

I'm probably going to do a wrap-up on the Times. I can't explain much why it is a paper without giving things away, but there was a particular reason why I wanted to do the paper layout; once I committed to making the effort, I figured I'd make it look good, and put in PSE appropriate content while I was at it

is it solved yet?

Since then I've learned even more MathJax, somewhat by accident. I guess I did the markup rather inefficiently, from a code perspective (though it's possible that it actually parses and runs faster the clunky way I wrote it)

Woo, four islands done!

@BeastlyGerbil The paper? As far as I know, nobody's even made a start on it ;)

next hint unlocks in about 40min though

Oops no it doesn't

3 hours 40 minutes

oh

I've had a look, and I know the cryptics have been solved

But can't get anymore of the rest

5:26 PM

Where's Deusovi when you need him :P

@dcfyj At the Mystery Hunt!

Watching, like a hawk.

(Nah, I just happened to open my laptop around this time.)

Suuuuuuuuure :P

Deusovi, the Owl Perched Above the Chatroom.

> And the Deus, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting,
> On the riddled bust of Xim'nes just above the Sphinx's Lair.

7

TrojanByAccident

5:35 PM

@Deusovi how many syllables is your name?

I always thought 3 but I guess it could be 4

@TrojanByAccident Either 3 or 4. :P

TrojanByAccident

@Deusovi k

I think the Hunt has started? At least the live-stream has..

duh-so-vi or de-oos-o-vi?

5:36 PM

@dcfyj I asked him this ages ago.

@Sid Puzzles are released at 1.

Convert that to UTC please.

23 minutes from now.

Sep 10 '16 at 23:38, by Deusovi

@Randal'Thor That's... pretty much how I pronounce it. There's no "official" pronunciation or anything, and I even 'say' it different ways at different times.

^

TrojanByAccident

5:37 PM

Hi Deusovi!
You are one of the mods here
Looks like that's all right now

In reality, he is Deus Ovi, God of Eggs!

Oh, Well, I saw the live-stream. Some guys wearing some weird masks and doing something strange..

@Sid Yeah, it's a Dungeons and Dragons theme.

D&D's fun ^^

Sadly I haven't played in a long time :(

Nor have I ever gotten the chance to finish a campaign :( :(

TrojanByAccident

God, Deus Ovi
Eggs shall rain from the heavens,
Commercial ones gone

5:40 PM

I was about to write a haiku myself lol

I couldn't remember how to do the newline though

Shift + return.

why is everyone writing haikus?

No idea

TrojanByAccident

Shift+Enter

It's a fad?

@TrojanByAccident Rand beat you to it :P

TrojanByAccident

5:41 PM

Why do we write these?
They are a waste of good space.
Also, we lose time.

@dcfyj lag

@TrojanByAccident Excuses :P

TrojanByAccident

I actually posted first, but it didn't get posted to the board

Haikus are silly:
Syllable constraints are dull,
Rhyming is more fun.

How about a Rhyming Haiku then?

That moment when you criticise a haiku by writing a haiku. :P

TrojanByAccident

5:42 PM

@Randal'Thor That would be more impressive if it rhymed

I noticed a while ago, but wasn't saying anything as there's not much point to it

Wow, just noticed an interesting question(Not on PSE): "If I'm cooking, and I cut a tomato, is there a chance that the knife would split an atom while it slices into the tomato to cause a nuclear explosion?"

TrojanByAccident

@Sid Wow.

Interesting thought

TrojanByAccident

um...

I'm going to go with no

5:46 PM

My vote is no

I'm pretty sure they push each other out of the way

TrojanByAccident

considering that the knife blade is much thicker than an atom, it would only part the atoms, and is physically unable to split one

Well, the highest voted answer got 33.3k upvotes on it and was pretty good

No, but if you throw two tomatoes towards each other at a speed approaching the speed of light, it will make a big mess.

3

33.3k? :S

TrojanByAccident

lol

5:47 PM

@Sid link?

TrojanByAccident

@Sid link?

e.e

ninja'd :)

quora.com/…

TrojanByAccident

yeah

ugh I hate that site

TrojanByAccident

5:48 PM

what the hell

blocked for keyword "knife"

wow. do they think you're six?

Knife is...well dangerous?

Sure. If you're six ...

@TrojanByAccident are you at a school?

Also used by most people for eating with every day.

TrojanByAccident

5:49 PM

@dcfyj Er, I'm in school, yes.

sort of

@Rubio Or if you someone is trying to stab you

TrojanByAccident

I'm in school, but not in a school

So you've got one of those stupid site blockers then, fun.

@Rubio Err, What is there to hate?

I remember bypassing those in high school

TrojanByAccident

5:50 PM

My school is not in a school, because it is a school while not a school. Therefore, school should not be in school, but in fact schooling in non-school

@Sid The three-pages-a-day-and-then-we-will-nag-you-forever-to-sign-up ridicularity.

I have a browser addon specifically to defang that silliness

but it's still annoying.

sign up for what?

to Quora.com

Oh, I think I've been to that site a grand total of 5 times. I'm not about to sign up for it lol

TrojanByAccident

I'm getting really tired

5:54 PM

It happens

TrojanByAccident

didn't sleep last night

@Rubio Yeah, that is actually a nuisance. Also, they make you do a lot of stuff just to sign in into that.

TrojanByAccident

or the night before

Apparently you have to give your real name if you sign up to Quora.

You should probably sleep then

TrojanByAccident

5:54 PM

time to go use my sharp knife

oh no, what if I cut myself? d'oh

@Randal'Thor Really? I don't think it is necessary.

@Randal'Thor Or a believable fake?

@dcfyj I suppose so.

"Hi, I'm Randall Thor."

TrojanByAccident

Did you know that giving a fake name to a website is actually illegal?

Like "John Doe". That's believable, right?

5:55 PM

things I don't care about that demand my name get:
First Name: Who's
Last Name: Asking

"Hi, I'm Dc Fyj."

@TrojanByAccident Probably depends where you are

er. you get the idea there.

TrojanByAccident

@dcfyj in the US, rather

Where'd you hear that one?

TrojanByAccident

5:56 PM

don't remember

Quora has extensive moderation issues though. And it is filled with college students who just want to vent their frustrations online.

What kind of moderation issues?

Too much, or too little?

@TrojanByAccident Pretty sure it's not illegal

Mostly it would be a civil matter, not a criminal one.

Honestly, they don't understand sarcasm and analogies.

5:59 PM

@ChrisCudmore Unless it's identity theft of course

The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act makes it a crime to gain "unauthorized access" to a computer or a website. Read literally and liberally, that could include access under false pretenses, i.e. giving false information.

I can't set up "Microsofft.com", make it look like the real site and infringe trademark.

TrojanByAccident

@Rubio Yeah, that's what I was talking about

giving a false name means that you are not actually being given authorized access

In practical terms, to hit a threshold where they'd prosecute you for that would take ... well ... real effort. :)

TrojanByAccident

Oh yeah, did you know that it's illegal to carry a permanent marker?

6:01 PM

@Rubio um, It only says computer, and also mention "gaining information"

@TrojanByAccident That's BS

That one's actually true, for some locations.

TrojanByAccident

@ChrisCudmore Anti-graffiti laws

Well - against city/town ordinance anyway, I'm not sure if it rises to "illegal"

TrojanByAccident

@dcfyj Technically, websites are hosted by computers, and just reading a webpage is "gaining information"

6:03 PM

@dcfyj CFAA is a federal law. But there are state laws that are essentially the same thing, and people have been prosecuted successfully in four states under those state laws for using someone else's WiFi.

So you are in fact "gaining information" from another "computer", and that's all they need to prove

I'm pretty sure the section you guys are referring to is this one:

Whoever intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains information contained in a financial record of a financial

institution, or of a card issuer as defined in section 1602(n) [1] of title 15, or contained in a file of a consumer reporting agency on a consumer, as such terms are defined in the Fair Credit Reporting Act (15 U.S.C. 1681 et seq.) or information from any department or agency of the United States; or information from any protected computer;

@Rubio Prosecuted for using wifi? Bah, we just tell people here and use their wifi. :P

Yeah, I don't really understand your American criminal law.

The information it mentions is specifically protected

If it's a crime in Canada, it's federal law.

TrojanByAccident

6:04 PM

@Rubio aka it's illegal to protect yourself from swatting

Otherwise it's merely a violation, punishable by fine or other sanction.

(a) Whoever—
(2) intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains—
(C) information from any protected computer;
[...]

Rubio, I posted that already

under (a)(2)C) it doesn't take much.

I don't think public information (on a computer) qualifies as "protected"

6:08 PM

If you have to have a login to see (say) the submit question dialog

then it's protected

I'm not saying they would prosecute, but they could and they wouldn't be wrong

(from a legal perspective)

Maybe the submittal of a question, but the question itself is publicly viewable

Too stringent laws.

US loves its loopholes :P

Sure. You wouldn't have to provide a false name to view questions, though. If you supplied one, it's to gain access to non-public things, more or less by definition. :)

Eh, I think you're looking too deeply into, but whatever

6:11 PM

Also, incidentally, the punishment for violating (a)(2)(C) is:

a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(2), (a)(3) or (a)(6) of this section which occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;

so getting caught twice could be a Very Bad Thing :)

VTC?

8- digit numbers are formed using the digits 1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4. The number of such numbers in which the odd digits do not occupy odd places, is? Mathy guys, help with this please..

-6

Q: A food question

Once there were a number of food stalls at a place. There were different delicious varieties of food. Many people along with their families went there and ate a number of dishes and, for mysterious reason, went away without paying the money. Tell me why? Hint: You need to know about Indian cultu...

VTCed, but for what?

I just marked it as off-topic, it's not really a puzzle in my opinion

6:16 PM

Huh, the correct answer was deleted.

@Randal'Thor VTD i'd say

Apparently the answer is "marriage".

it's not even a riddle, it's a trivia question

By which I suppose they mean "a wedding".

@Rubio Gotta VTC before we can VTD.

That's wedding party.

6:17 PM

well yeah.

(and already did VTC)

I think you 10-20k people even have to wait longer between closure and VTDing.

Can't remember the exact restrictions there.

Hey, @Randal'Thor Since, you are a mathy guy, (I don't remember who else, apart from Gareth And Deusovi), Help me with the above question, please.

@Randal'Thor You must wait for a question to be closed for 2 days before you can vote for deletion. This restriction is removed for trusted users when a post scores -3 or lower. If you feel a post should be deleted despite having lots of votes or for being new, please flag it for community moderator attention.

@Sid I didn't understand the question, sorry. Can you explain it a bit better?

I think it's just a combitronics question

6:20 PM

There, now I've voted to delete. Sorry, @Rubio, you'll have to wait another couple of days :-)

Yeah, combinatorics question. Find how many 8-digit numbers can be formed from the given digits such that the odd digits are NOT in odd places.

(*sadface*)

@dcfyj What is considered a "trusted user" in this context?

@Rubio 20k.

@Rubio 20k+

ah.

6:21 PM

puzzling.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/trusted-user

Oh. yeah, I glanced at that once a while back

I was focused on 10k though :)

Yeah, 20k doesn't give you much extra really.

I believe it is easier to get to 20k from 10k than to get to 10k from 1k

It lets you VTD answers, but the mods are usually good at handling that.

btw: Happy Friday the 13th everyone.

6:23 PM

Isn't that supposed to be unlucky?

@Rubio D-:

Just - you know - avoid black cats, breaking mirrors, walking under ladders ... all the usual stuff

@Randal'Thor derp. I just found the moderator tools page. :)

I can be a bit slow sometimes.

Alert! Alert! Rubio has hacked the diamond mod tools!

Oh, wait, you mean the 10k tools.

;-)

yeah. The privilege page for 10k calls them Moderator Tools, so whatever

I finally have time to work on the islands puzzle :P

6:35 PM

@dcfyj Damn, I'd better get on and finish it. Was hoping to be able to have a longer break.

Hehe

Okay, any progress on the Times?

Apple and 1983-85 makes me think of something that works on mac.

@Randal'Thor Just to make sure, For any given pair of matching numbers, the need to have themselves in spaces between them, right?

ie. 2 (space) (space) 2

(at least that many spaces)

Yep.

ok

6:46 PM

Rules are here.

Those little islands at the top are nice

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