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user189275
12:48 AM
@Ankoganit You shouldn't mention the four C's in a comment, except when youre asking, because it clutters up this
 
Rubio
Rubio
I find it amusing when AK comments on other participants' chat etiquette.
4
@Randal'Thor Oh. My. Title length overload.
 
user189275
@Rubio It's not etiquette (I don't care much about it), but its about not cluttering up the search space.
 
Alconja
Alconja
@ArbitraryKangaroo Ironically, that comment clutters up your own search :)
 
user189275
@Alconja Nope, I used "four C's", not "C**C".
 
Alconja
Alconja
Click the link
 
user189275
12:59 AM
Will I flag it for mods ?
 
user189275
@Alconja What's the tags on your puzzle for the community metapuzzle ?
 
Alconja
Alconja
music+visual+enigmatic-puzzle+word (the last simply because things resolve to a single word)
 
user189275
Oh tagging music and I'm not there. Is knowledge of music required to solve it ? (You shouldn't include the visual and enigmatic, they're obvious to be present in your puzzles)
 
Alconja
Alconja
Not really, and I'm including the absolute basic music theory necessary
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Ooh, a puzzle involving music theory? This'll be fun :D
 
user189275
1:06 AM
@Deusovi How you will make your metapuzzle from the puzzle answer ? (The tags)
 
Alconja
Alconja
No more deleting!
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
I don't see a need to.
The search is fine IMO.
It's not a significant amount of clutter.
Huh? What do you mean?
(Also, on the topic of music theory, here's a chiptune in 7/4 time)
 
user189275
I mean how you're making the metapuzzle from the puzzle answers ? (Based on which tags ?)
 
Alconja
Alconja
I do love me some strange time signatures (and/or polymeter/polyrhythm)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
I haven't decided on the tags yet. Probably visual, wordplay, and of course metapuzzles.
 
user189275
1:10 AM
Here's a completely joke (and easy) C3:
 
user189275
Technology giant stacks the first letter upon itself and contains 75% of lock (7)
 
user189275
And here's a ridiculously easy C3:
 
user189275
May I have a cake ?(2)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Hm, I can't get either of them. Are you sure they follow the rules of cryptic clues?
 
user189275
Yeah, sure this time. Will I tell the answers ?
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
1:14 AM
You don't have to.
 
Alconja
Alconja
I can't see the answers either (treating them as cryptics)...
 
user189275
Okay, so I'm telling both:
 
Alconja
Alconja
BTW deus, is your most recent one in the chain still unsolved? Saw you got mine last night, well done! (I was worried it was a bit hard given I was being a bit mean with using traditional indicator words not as indicators)
 
Rubio
Rubio
Deus's latest hasn't been solved that I've seen. I can't make any headway on it.
 
user189275
• (First one is a complete joke) Alconja (= Bill Gates = Technology giant), Puts upon first letter upon itself (A on A) and 75% of lock (loc) (Alconja)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
1:17 AM
Yeah, mine's still unsolved! And I loved your clue. Clues that play with the genre are always fun.
Where does the NJ come from?
 
user189275
• Pi (May I have a -> 3.141), A cake (= pie)
 
Rubio
Rubio
Either I badly misunderstand the rules, or neither of those follow them.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
"May I have a" is not a definition or valid wordplay for "pi". And you'd need a homophone indicator for "pie". Maybe "cake, he asked" or something.
(Also, you'd need an anagram indicator for LOC --> LCO.)
It should be possible to get the answer from either half entirely without the other half.
 
user189275
Oh okay, so very sorry, none works. I guess I have to solve craploads more before making some crappy ones.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
It takes a lot of practice! My first cryptic clues were awful.
 
Rubio
Rubio
1:20 AM
my first one was solvable but not legal. hehe
 
Alconja
Alconja
@Deusovi Thanks. Appreciate the sentiment. Enjoying learning a new puzzle skill. :)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
In case it wasn't obvious by now, cryptics are my favorite type of puzzle :P
 
Alconja
Alconja
I want to say that the answer for yours is leak (def: gas from seals), but that doesn't fit any (parents - western) patterns I can find... Wondering if "western" is EU or something...
(of course I expect no confirmation either way, just thinking out loud)
 
Rubio
Rubio
1:56 AM
I was thinking "gas from seals" is HISS, western gas is Hydrogen (the only gas on the left/west side of the periodic table), so extracting western gas from seals = ISS. but I can't do anything from there to make PARENTS give another letter that solves it.
 
Alconja
Alconja
that's quite good. western could also just be referring to the left most letter
 
Rubio
Rubio
anyway - trying to find ways to parse "western gas" as H haven't proven very fruitful.
true
 
Alconja
Alconja
but if "western gas" is H (or G), then the definition can't be gas from seals (they overlap), making it parents, but then we need a word that means parents that's "seals" - [HG]
Other possibility is western gas = WES (stock exchange listing)
 
Rubio
Rubio
hm. yeah, i didn't think of that
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
(All necessary capital letters have been provided.)
 
Alconja
Alconja
2:05 AM
provided by you? I.e. none (well, just P at the start of the sentence)
 
Rubio
Rubio
@Deusovi That, surprisingly, doesn't help me at all. ;) I'm not sure what capitalization flags in cryptics.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Western Gas, the company, would've been capitalized.
 
Alconja
Alconja
nor me. making your clue more cryptic than the cryptic :P
ahh kk
 
Rubio
Rubio
oh. ok thanks
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
It's not a cryptic thing, just an English thing
 
Alconja
Alconja
2:06 AM
:) fair enough
 
Rubio
Rubio
oh. hm.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
Some other observations (which have not so far led me to the answer): "Parents" can be a verb as well as a noun. "seals" could also be a verb (perhaps suggesting one thing stuffed inside another").
er, dunno what that quotation mark is doing there; ignore it.
GUMS means something a little like "seals" and shares many letters with MUMS which could be clued by "parents", and the required change is even at the left (west) side, but I don't see any way to put those pieces together so that they actually fit.
 
Alconja
Alconja
Yeah, that's getting pretty close... GUMS (seals) - G (western Gas) ...but needs another M
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yeah. I will be quite surprised if that actually has much in common with the solution.
 
Alconja
Alconja
I was also thinking about verb/noun trickery and though parents could be rear or something
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
2:10 AM
(would need to be "rears")
or raises or breeds or various other things with more than four letters.
 
Rubio
Rubio
I don't think this works, but gonna check. POPS, because ... gas from seals might be He, minus the western gas (H) is E; extract that from Parents=Fathers=Popes -> POPS. that can't possibly be right, but hey. :)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
so where's the definition part of the clue if that's right?
 
Alconja
Alconja
I agree, which is why I kind of dropped it
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
(that's a polite way of saying I also don't think it works)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Nope, that's not it. Definition and wordplay are entirely separate, as Gareth indicated.
 
Rubio
Rubio
2:11 AM
Oh. Right. If parents=POPS as def, then parents can't participate in wordplay. right?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
if solving this hinges on knowing that, I dunno, mugms are a kind of seals then I shall be (very slightly) annoyed.
 
Alconja
Alconja
Ahh yes, the famous mugm seal
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
It doesn't require any obscure knowledge, don't worry.
 
Rubio
Rubio
Native to Western Zimbabwe, if I remember correctly.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
"from" looks like it ought to be just syntax but of course it could play a more substantial part (indicating EX or something). But so far as I know EWGX doesn't mean "parents" :-).
 
Rubio
Rubio
2:13 AM
They are natural ecological partners with the Schmulrog penguins.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
(none of what I'm saying seems likely to be very helpful; I'm just trying to think of things it's easy to miss, assumptions it's natural to make but that could be wrong, etc.)
"Parents extracted" could mean that the role of the parents in the clue is simply to be removed from something else. But it's hard to make the clue fit together in that case.
 
Alconja
Alconja
(non-useful things are still useful, shifts others' thinking in alternative directions)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
that's the point, yes
 
Alconja
Alconja
parents extracted = kids?
(i.e remove parents from a family)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
I think that's a bit too much of a stretch.
 
Alconja
Alconja
2:16 AM
no, doesn't feel very deusovi-esque
deusovian?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
deuoviate?
er, deusoviate
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
:P
 
Alconja
Alconja
deviate
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
deiovi?
(I mean, if Deusovi = deus ovi = god of sheep, then its genitive would be dei ovi...)
 
Rubio
Rubio
Deusovian, is I believe the proper form for the loanword. :)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
2:18 AM
(I don't think "ovi" actually quite means "of sheep"; I guess it's actually "ovium" or something.)
(and I say "actually" just a little too much; sorry)
 
Alconja
Alconja
It's funny, but being limited to a 4 char word, is actually making this harder... especially with the plurals involved. Not many plural parent words or plural seal words to choose from (which is why I moved to "gas from seals" def in the first place)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
anyway, I'm AFK for the next 15 minutes or so. I hope someone will have solved this by the time I get back.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Want a hint, or would you like to puzzle this over some more?
 
Alconja
Alconja
dads, mums, moms, caps, gums, leak, hiss
lemme have a little longer....
 
Rubio
Rubio
don't forget pops, not that it helps
 
Alconja
Alconja
2:21 AM
helps as much as the others...
is there any synonym that gets "seals" -> "chaps"?
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
nope
 
Rubio
Rubio
@Alconja if (gas from seals) is def, what is "Parents extracted western" supposed to be then? I'm not sure there's anything that could fit that.
i mean, compositionally, let alone finding actual words that worked.
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
parents extracted->Orphans... Western to imply Gotham, and therefor Bats
 
Alconja
Alconja
Yeah, you're right, it's pretty awkward, but I think(?) it's ok to munge grammar a little when cluing such that "parents extracted western" could mean <parents synonym> minus <western clue>
 
Rubio
Rubio
Hm. Ok yeah I guess I can see how that might work.
 
Alconja
Alconja
2:27 AM
It is a bit rough though, and we've seen that deusovi stickles on rules, so I think you may be right
Though similarly, if the def is "seals" that leaves a hanging "from" (but I'm pretty sure it's ok to bridge def to wordplay with a linking word like that)
meaning to be as "clean" as possible, the def must be parents
 
Rubio
Rubio
2:40 AM
ok I can't do anything with this, but I think it shows promise.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Hm?
 
Rubio
Rubio
Parents (v) -> GETS. need a word for "seals" that can have "western" extracted from it, leaving GETS.
i'd love it if GASKETS worked, but i can't get "ASK" from western.
 
Alconja
Alconja
definitely feels close
 
Rubio
Rubio
as far as I know, that's the only workable (4) for Parents that we haven't already niggled to death
 
Alconja
Alconja
though gaskets would be just seals, so we need to extract "western gas" = ASK from it...
 
Rubio
Rubio
2:44 AM
ah. yeah. i'm trying so many gyrations I lost track of what I was doing :)
 
Alconja
Alconja
:) I know that feeling
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
3:01 AM
Time for a hint?
 
Alconja
Alconja
...yeah, I got nothing
 
Rubio
Rubio
Yeah I'm out of ideas
 
Alconja
Alconja
@GarethMcCaughan (sorry Gareth, we failed you)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Alright - there's one clue type you all haven't figured out yet. You're right that it's a deletion clue, but there's a bit more to it.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
Just to be clear, you're saying there's a construction no one has mentioned yet? (Including, in particular, my suggestion that "seals" could mean "contains" and indicate one thing inside another?)
 
Rubio
Rubio
3:06 AM
Yeah, keep in mind at least half of us are novices and have only the barest idea of what constructions can exist :)
 
Alconja
Alconja
maybe western means right to left... i.e. western gas => SAG
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
another possibility is that "gas" is an anagram indicator (think of gas molecules moving around at random and ending up any old where). So e.g. start with PARENTS, extract (meaning throw away, though of course it could equally be the opposite) the western part leaving ENTS, anagram to make NETS which kinda sorta means something a bit like "seals"
(but not enough like; I am not suggesting that's the answer)
(also, "from" would then be doing no work at all)
 
Rubio
Rubio
I'd be quite surprised at "gas" as an indicator word.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
me too
but I have a feeling I saw it once
 
Rubio
Rubio
@Deusovi can I ask then - is "extracting western" a compound indicator to remove the leftmost match (only) of a deletion? I've already considered that, though I haven't seen anywhere that it makes any kind of difference. Just trying to make sense of your hint.
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
3:11 AM
No, it is not.
And no, "gas" is not an indicator word.
 
Rubio
Rubio
You're no help. ;) This makes my brain hurt hehe
Welp. I've no real idea then what clue type we haven't figured out yet. I hope we can safely assume you mean (clue type we for sure know about that we haven't yet figured out [how] to apply), and not (clue type we haven't yet figured out exists)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Yeah, I meant the former.
(I already did the "new clue type" gimmick with SCHOOLED.)
 
 
3 hours later…
Alconja
Alconja
6:04 AM
Joke/rule breaking CC: "Fore!" you injected, without the slightest energy (4)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
6:30 AM
Heh, clever. (FO(+U)R(-e) - enumeration is the definition)
 
Alconja
Alconja
:P
(this is me not solving yours)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Want me to give it away and make another? (Or just give a hint?)
 
Alconja
Alconja
I gotta head off now anyway, so I can't pick up the torch.
See who comes in next and how they go with it....
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Alright, sounds good!
 
 
2 hours later…
IAmInPLS
IAmInPLS
8:46 AM
You might know this one, but I came across it today (shame on me?)
After 19 years, I got into myself. Who am I?
 
 
6 hours later…
Sid
Sid
3:10 PM
Well, today has been the worst day of the month for me....IRL :-(
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
?
 
Sid
Sid
I might as well say "of the year"
@dcfyj Things went terribly bad today...
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
That bad?
 
Sid
Sid
Yep.. and they don't get bad with me usually.
@JonathanAllan Well, then I give up... Because for non-integer solutions, they usually take a lot of time and require use of logarithms and so on(I think.. I used them to find cube roots)..
 
 
1 hour later…
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
4:39 PM
It's probably not right, but the last line of this riddle makes me think of the Strong Nuclear Force. I wonder if I can find a formula...
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
32
Q: Is there an equation for the strong nuclear force?

ergodicsumThe equation describing the force due to gravity is $$F = G \frac{m_1 m_2}{r^2}.$$ Similarly the force due to the electrostatic force is $$F = k \frac{q_1 q_2}{r^2}.$$ Is there a similar equation that describes the force due to the strong nuclear force? What are the equivalent of masses/charg...

particle-physics forces quantum-chromodynamics
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
5:03 PM
nope, those don't seem to be makable from a word as described in the puzzle, oh well, a longshot anyway
 
Sid
Sid
DOesn't the link part not work in the chat as it does in the puzzles. Isn't this the correct syntax, [insert] [1] [1]:http.....
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
You mean a [text link](example.com)?
 
Rubio
Rubio
[text to display](url) is easier
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
@Sid You need to use the "short form" hyperlink syntax: [Display text](URL).
Anyone else? :P
 
Rubio
Rubio
hehe
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
5:11 PM
I'm more confused why mine didn't turn into a link...
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
@dcfyj You need a valid URL. With http:// on it.
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
 
Sid
Sid
Ahh, thanks... So, that's what I had been doing wrong all this time...
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
 
Sid
Sid
What happened to the CCCC?
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
5:15 PM
It's still on @Deusovi's as far as I know
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
Yep!
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
this one: Parents extracted western gas from seals (4)
(Yes I have it copied from outside chat, I glance at it now and then)
 
Rubio
Rubio
well. that would have been a lot cooler if it formatted right.
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
I have no idea what you're doing
 
Rubio
Rubio
nevermind. :) that just plain didn't work
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
5:17 PM
Rubio's an AK puppet!
 
Sid
Sid
@Rubio One AK is enough.... :P
 
Rubio
Rubio
Man. One delete. hides head in shame
 
Sid
Sid
On a more personal note, I broke my spectacles today. ;-(
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
I hope that's not why your day is going poorly
 
Sid
Sid
Nope, that's only the tip of the iceberg...
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
5:19 PM
@Rubio You mixed up your brackets. You were doing ()[] instead of []() for one of the links.
 
Sid
Sid
Now that CCCC.... Probably means to take out one of the "s" or both the "s" from seals... Not sure about parents...
 
Rubio
Rubio
so the hint, such as it was, that Deusovi gave us is that there is a clue type that we for sure know about that we haven't yet figured out [how] to apply
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
gas from seals could be the definition of a LEAK?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
maybe 'Parents' means to look at etymologies?
Extrahere vesper khaos fra (selkhaz|sigellum)
 
Deusovi
Deusovi
It's not etymologies.
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
5:32 PM
@Sconibulus What language is that?
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
One that you don't know?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
Latin, Greek, and ProtoGermanic I believe, depending on the word
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
humanshu!
 
Rubio
Rubio
we tried to get to LEAK but didn't find a good way there.
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
Ah. Makes sense, then. Google translate was having a lot of trouble with it.
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
5:33 PM
I dunno I used this site
 
Rubio
Rubio
of course we're overlooking something
 
manshu
manshu
@dcfyj you might be confusing yourself between humn and manshu
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
Has anyone considered "western" as the movie genre?
 
Rubio
Rubio
that should be capitalized though
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
yeah, but I couldn't make 'Bean' into anything
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
5:34 PM
I thought of western like little house on the prairie, does that count?
 
Sid
Sid
It's not LEAK... Alconja tried that yesterday...
Or technically today...
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
I wonder why "extracted" instead of "extract"? Maybe "extracted" is the definition word?
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
I thought it was supposed to be word play + definition
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
Yes; I'm saying maybe "extracted" is the definition part, and the rest is wordplay.
 
Rubio
Rubio
a past-tense word for extracted in 4 letters is going to be a tough find
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
5:39 PM
No, I mean, I though it was supposed to be the word play followed by the definition
 
Rubio
Rubio
@dcfyj can be any order, they just have to be entirely distinct from each other
 
dcfyj
dcfyj
ah
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
@Rubio "ored"? (It's a stretch, I know).
 
Sid
Sid
I have got the weird feeling that it might be "PAST". Past tense of extract, First two letters from parents, s from seals...
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
@Sid Way too vague. There's nothing cluing the "first two letters/last letter" thing.
 
Rubio
Rubio
5:42 PM
there's no definition part that matches PAST, that I see
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
@Rubio How about TOOK?
 
Rubio
Rubio
hm. That might work. :)
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
maybe it's an organic compound gas
coming from seals
COOH or COHH?
there's probably a way to make parents extracted western match that
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
I wonder if "extracted western gas" could mean "fracked"?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
the definition part can't usually be in the middle of the clue. I don't see any way "extracted" could be the definition in this case, for instance.
 
Rubio
Rubio
5:49 PM
Yeah it's hard to make sensible wordplay out of the rest of it
In any case, it's not just that we're using the wrong wordplay or wrong definitions for the pieces we've looked at. there is a clue type that we for sure know about that we haven't yet figured out [how] to apply. I don't know what it is, but Deusovi gave us that hint to unstuck us.
So what clue type have we not considered here?
15 hours ago, by Deusovi
Alright - there's one clue type you all haven't figured out yet. You're right that it's a deletion clue, but there's a bit more to it.
that's what he said exactly, and he confirmed what I said is what he meant.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
ok, let's try to enumerate everything that could be happening in the clue.
"parents": doesn't seem like a cryptic-syntax word at all.
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
Well, the definition is probably either "Parents" or "seals".
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
"extracted": indicates some portion of a word being removed (and then either just that being used, or just the remainder being used; D's use of the term "deletion clue" suggests the latter)
"western": could mean taking the leftmost part of something; could signify W; could (though it's a stretch) mean taking the leftmost instance of something ambiguous (someone suggested e.g. that a word might have two gases in it and we'd have to remove the one that's further left).
[obviously these words could also just be words, whose meaning is used as such; or could be sources of letters; I'm trying to figure out what cryptic-clue constructions could be in play here]
"gas": could maaaaaybe be an anagram indicator.
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
"western" could also mean reversing a word (gas -> sag)?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
GPR: yes, good catch.
 
Rubio
Rubio
5:57 PM
I specifically asked - is "extracting western" a compound indicator to remove the leftmost match (only) of a deletion? I've already considered that, though I haven't seen anywhere that it makes any kind of difference. Just trying to make sense of your hint. He said it isn't that.
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
western could theoretically be referring to sunset as well, for the end of a word
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
@Rubio: right, but I'm trying to list every single possibility :-)
@Sconibulus if you mean that "western" could indicate the right-hand end of a word, no, I really think that would be too unfair.
"from": could indicate that what follows contains (or clues something that contains) something we're working with; e.g., "extracted X from Y" may mean that X is removed from Y. Are there other possibilities for this?
(again, other than e.g. the possibility that the word is part of a definition like "gas from seals" -> LEAK or LEAKAGE or something, or that it's being used as a source of letters for wordplay)
"seals": could maaaybe mean that something is stuck inside something else (e.g., if "extracted western gas" is AB and "from" is CD then "extracted western gas from seals" could be CABD, with AB inside CD)
are there other cryptic-clue structures that "seals" could be indicating? I don't see any right now
 
Rubio
Rubio
I asked I know cryptics use specific signal words for things. is the pattern "(thing) extracts (foo) from (bar)" constrained to signal that (foo) is in fact being taken from (bar), or is there latitude to have it mean something other than the straightforward reading? - Deusovi noted that there's pretty much always latitude, but that in general the reading I assumed is the usual one.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
in this case it's "extracted" which I think leaves some extra latitude for it to be the parents that are extracted
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
could there be a hidden larger word from which parents is extracted?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
6:05 PM
incidentally, and probably not usefully, I would like to remark that one word meaning "parents" I haven't seen considered yet -- ... uh-oh, Deusovi is listening ... -- is DAMS which means "mothers" and also happens to mean something a little like "seals".
 
Rubio
Rubio
huh.
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
from which the remainder matches a 'western gas from seals' definition
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
the larger word would need to be indicated somehow
"from" could certainly mean there's a hidden word in what follows
but what follows is just "seals" and there isn't a lot of scope to hide things in that
"western" could also, rather unsoundly, be we-stern = back of "we", which I guess you could interpret either as the "w" or the "e". I don't think that's Deusovi's style, though.
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
"Parents" could also be a verb.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yes
though so far I haven't thought of any verb meaning "parents" that either has four letters or looks like I can extract anything useful from it to leave seals or gas from seals or anything
which doesn't mean it can't be done, just that I haven't thought of a way to do it yet
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
6:10 PM
Was just going to say the same thing.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
rears raises bears breeds fathers mothers fosters ... more?
sires
gets begets
(gets is four letters but already got considered without anyone thinking of anything that works)
(might be worth reconsidering, though)
the idea that was mentioned before was G(ASK)ETS which would require ASK to mean "western gas", so it seems at least
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
From thesaurus.com: develops, grows, produces, provides, rears, supports, breeds, cultivates, fosters, groups, nourishes, nurses, plants, propagates, sows, suckles, trains, weans, brings up, drags up, fetches up
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
most of those really don't mean "parents"
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
No, you're right. I went from "parents" to "raises", and then forgot where I was.
Some of them do, though.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yup, and I think they're all ones I already mentioned :-)
aside from "brings up", I guess; I didn't consider multiple words
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
6:16 PM
maybe "weans"? (Give me something here...) :)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
maaaaybe
of course "western" could also mean "according to a pattern of language characteristic in the west" (the west of England, of the US, or whatever)
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
Anyway, back to the task at hand.
How many different definitions of SEALS are there?
- animals
- things used to close something
- the action of closing something
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
there are the animals; the things that block off other things (and the related verb); the Navy special ops people
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
- rings or other objects used to sign documents
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
the blocking-off has a derivative meaning referring to a token of authentic identity
... we are coming up with the same meanings in the same order ...
and that one has a further-derivative meaning of a person entitled to use a seal (as in the Lord Privy Seal)
though I think that's always capitalized
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
6:19 PM
and that seems like a bit of a stretch for a cryptic clue.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yes
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
It could just be a symbol as well, based on the token of authentic identity
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
the verb has a sort of metaphorical use, meaning to make something conclusive
(as in to seal someone's fate)
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
like "seal the deal"?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yes
I don't think the Navy special ops guys are any use because they're really meant to be all-caps, IIRC
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
6:20 PM
So it could just mean "closes", "finishes", "ends", etc.
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
yes
 
GentlePurpleRain
GentlePurpleRain
agreed (regarding special ops)
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
this is all making me feel very stupid
so, back to basics. what's the simplest way to parse the clue? something like this. Take a word meaning "seals". Find within it something signifying gas, written R->L ("western gas"). Remove it. Get a result meaning "parents".
4-letter words meaning "parents": moms mums dads pops dams -- any more?
none of those looks to me like we can add anything inside it to make something meaning seals in any sense
oh, there's also "gets" as discussed earlier which yields "gaskets"
but I don't see why "ask" = "western gas". KSA has some meanings but I don't think any of them has anything to do with gas.
(gas: substance whose atoms/molecules move about freely with few interactions; talk verbosely/frivolously; something that causes amusement; gasoline; to kill by means of poisonous gas; any more?)
(I see Deusovi has despaired of our making any progress...)
KSA = Kingdom of Saudi Arabia; Knowledge, Skills and Abilities or some formal statement thereof; any number of much more obscure things.
(Saudi Arabia produces petroleum oil which is refined to yield gasoline, but that's far too indirect to be useful.)
KS = Kansas which I suppose is western, but why would A mean gas?
oh, that's the wrong way around
we can't use KS to mean both right-to-left and pertaining to the western USA
I don't think A or AS signifies "western" in any way I can see
 
Rubio
Rubio
sorry, drifted off to do real work for a bit
seal hatch latch gasket cover cap closure close badge emblem stamp shut hasp lock emboss sign secure ring scepter
those are the words I came up with for "SEALS"
was using that as part of a gross brute-force-ish approach to find any other words with that general meaning that fit other patterns
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
6:46 PM
Hmm, there's apparently a thing in the U.S. called Orphaned Gas Wells
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
ok. does that help
?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
probably not
I was just thinking about parent extraction and got orphan, the next things were western and gas
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
7:02 PM
Oh, hey, @Alenanno how did you go about making the Dice Star again? Was it a 3d model?
 
Beastly Gerbil
Beastly Gerbil
On a side note, did no-one notice anything odd about the guardian's name?
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
@Sconibulus Nope, Latex. Why?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
...I might be making another one that's more technically complicated, and was wondering what tool you used that I might be able to download
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
@Sconibulus Technically complicated, how?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
multiple die sizes (d4-d12) and a symbol instead of a character on one face
I can fiddle around and see if I can make Latex do it for me, if not I might start fiddling around with Blender like I've been meaning to for a while
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
7:09 PM
@Sconibulus Oh, interesting. I... was actually thinking of posting another instance of it as well in the future. I'm not sure I understand the "die size" thing. As in number of dice? Or number of faces?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
number of faces, d4's are pyramids, d12's are dodecahedrons
D&D incidentally uses d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20 a lot
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
@Sconibulus I thought about that, but at a certain point it becomes impractical because some faces will be "weirdly hidden", since you cannot change perspective in 2D images.
How did you intend to solve that?
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
larger dice have more 'hidden' values to fill in
It looked like there were orientations where 4 were legible on a d8, 5 on a d10, and 6 on a d12
d20 seemed like it could only have about 8 faces be actually legible, but I wasn't using it anyway
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
@Sconibulus I was referring to the faces who are "perpendicular" to the viewer :D ... Ah I see. Good to know. I see you enjoyed the Dice Star thingy. :D
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
It was definitely a cool concept
 
Alenanno
Alenanno
7:15 PM
It was not mine, unfortunately. But you're right, it was a good one.
@Sconibulus I'm off to dinner. Let me know if there are news about that. :) See you in a while.
 
Sconibulus
Sconibulus
Take care
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
7:39 PM
@BeastlyGerbil Doesn't look like it. I mean, it looks kinda odd but if there's an obvious hidden meaning it's eluding me. The surname is an anagram of, e.g., BLING DELAY or BAD YELLING.
 
Beastly Gerbil
Beastly Gerbil
@GarethMcCaughan what about his initials?
 
Gareth McCaughan
Gareth McCaughan
LND? I think I must be missing some reference. They're the first three consonants of "London", I guess. Off by one from "Moe". 3-letter code of an obscure airport somewhere in the US. Er, I dunno. What am I missing?
 
Beastly Gerbil
Beastly Gerbil
Oh it was just meant to reference London :P
 
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