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00:44
> Based on your tech stack
> Java 100%
@Ginger i vaguely remember my parents (dad's mom's a cmu alum) tried to get me started with alice before we found scratch and i can remember absolutely nothing but confusion
lol
@lyxal BASED
probably for the best, actually; Alice was made for a previous decade :b
01:03
i don't even know how you could teach a previous decade's children with that
probably harder than basic
so much random shit for the 3d environment
01:29
@lyxal i had a "build java project with maven" when it was all gradle
 
4 hours later…
05:25
@mousetail How does net number of people matter? That's like saying it's okay for a pregnant woman to kill because she'll just have a baby afterwards :P
It's how much you're hurting people that matters
06:04
@user Yea but children are worth less moraly since less has been invested in them yet
 
6 hours later…
12:02
“Get into an argument about grapes by 8AM” wasn’t on my to-do list for today, and yet
 
1 hour later…
13:32
14:34
@RydwolfPrograms you totally don’t need to worry how we’re writing the comic
in P4TC Rydwolf-proof Planning Room, 9 hours ago, by user
I don't even have the self-control to stop myself from stuffing my face with Pringles and aimlessly browsing Reddit all day rather than studying for my exam tomorrow
14:57
@Seggan As in whether or not you will in a reasonable time frame, or what you'll do to the story? :p
lol I just got three different Noto Sans fonts in a row
Different fonts do weird things to the green highlighting of pings
@mousetail Not necessarily. A child with lots of friends and family > an adult with absolutely no one who cares about them or depends on them
Killing the child would cause a whole lot of people (long-term) pain, while killing the adult would only the cause the adult (short-term) pain
Also, you'd have to be a pretty messed-up person to bring yourself to kill a kid, ethics aside
Wait I didn't read what you were replying to lol
Okay how about a pregnant woman who's about to give birth to twins or triplets? :P
Really disappointed I'm missing my Art History field trip tomorrow
Or a man who donates his sperm? That's even more allowed murder :P
15:35
@user A adult wihout lots of friends can still contribute to society. A kid will need a lot of schooling and mentoring to reach the same level of constribution
@RydwolfPrograms lyxal says he'll work on it at some point, so I guess now it's up to me to do my part :b
Y'all have until Monday.
If you don't finish, I'm coming for your livers.
you fool, Mario already has my liver
Luigi won it back. But you know how it works. Once your liver's been stolen once, it's even easier the next time.
I'll lease my liver to you
15:39
Nope, no deal. Nitro or your liver, either will be permanent.
you're threatening the person with GitHub Perks?
anyway, I'll have my frames done before Monday (I hope)
@Ginger I am.
Also I hope y'all can do creative stuff with Perks I find it really hard to fit them into the story
my part in this whole thing is rather minimal
I only have like 3 lines lol
You're drawing part of it, go anarchist and make yourself do cool stuff :p
yeah, I'm probably going to lol
I called dibs on the ending scene, which I think is pretty funny
15:47
Just make sure you leave a good way for me to wrap up the story
Since this is the penultimate chapter in the entire series
the end doesn't really leave any hanging bits, I think
how much of the idea do you know?
also, should I try to hook Snowy into the end? (like I make some reference to them?)
Wdym "doesn't really leave any hanging bits"
Y'all are not writing the end to the comic
This is the second-to-last chapter
Also I know none of the story don't spoil it
I mean that any things that happen in the chapter will (probably) not leave loose threads for you to resolve in the ending
we ain't writing any endings here
@Ginger Only if you want to, I'm taking care of Snowy
so you're adopting them
15:50
@Ginger Oh okay I interpreted it as "we'll wrap up all your loose ends for you Rydwolf"
@RydwolfPrograms of course not d:
Y'all are free to wrap up some of the loose ends tho
hmm
I'd originally planned for C5 to be basically the gang setting up for C6
there'll be an explanation of where Rabbit came from, so you can fit that into the ending if you want
@RydwolfPrograms hmm, reviewing the transcripts it's mostly more backstory
maybe not the best idea?
(also would you mind moving this to P4TC)
15:52
It's fine but maybe a little safe/boring?
Like I was hoping this would kinda go in some weird unexpected direction :p
exactly
That's why I had proposed y'all working indpeendently
hmmmm
I've asked Seggan about rejiggering some things
You'd define a few "interfaces" (e.g., "my part of the chapter is going to end in TNB. with caird gone, having left his gun and taken NP in tank form") and see what comes of it
I like this idea more, but we've got a slightly limited timeframe
15:54
You actually don't, I'm going to be very very busy for the next month :p
Your liver is actually safe
good to know
why so busy, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm going to Boston/Pittsburgh this weekend, I've got a massive AP Research presentation Monday, I've got 6 AP tests in early May
Plus my huge homework backlog
And job
Oh and I have to finish a 4000 word paper by May 1st
And need a rough draft of it by Monday, which I'm going to write on the plane
yikes
@RydwolfPrograms oh were wrapping up a ton lol
we are?
16:04
@RydwolfPrograms I don't miss those days
@RydwolfPrograms our current high-level plan is making the backstory for the cursed diamond (and presumably the hivemind); does that work?
No spoilers!
la la la I can't hear you
@Ginger erm i thought we yeeted plans for the hivemind and made it implicit
@RydwolfPrograms dw, we did :)
New captcha type idea:
"What does this Analytic Cubist painting depict?"
Force all the 20th-century-art haters to appreciate it :p
 
1 hour later…
17:28
@RydwolfPrograms okay, we have a plan for our chapter
drawing will commence soonish
yeah we literally rewrote it in an hour :P
worked great
I mean, it wasn't quite a full rewrite
but there were definitely changes made
we only left 2 scenes exactly the same (the start and a TNB scene), the general plot is the same too
yup
 
1 hour later…
18:32
@RydwolfPrograms I've finished one of my scenes
also you still need to upload the latest set of frames to the viewer
I am eating mashed potatoes with a spoon
uh, good job I guess?
Well yesterday I had to gather them with my buns
18:33
lol
also, do you mind if I show you the frame I'm the most proud of? it doesn't spoil anything I promise
Because the spoon machine was jammed
> spood
@Ginger NO
The art style is what I'm most excited to see
okay okay calm down lmao
don't get too excited, it's almost identical to yours
> I'm moist excited
18:34
*excites sexily*
QWERTY is pain
if everything stays on-track we'll have the chapter finished by Monday
that does, however, assume lyxal actually does his part
which is not a given
@Ginger it kinda spoils half the plot
no it doesn't
it's just [REDACTED] looking at a [REDACTED], how does that spoil anything
you can't even tell what [REDACTED] [REDACTED] through all the [REDACTED]
I left my granola bar in my motor vehicle I am sad
18:44
@Ginger yeah but the [REDACTED] and the [REDACTED] on the [REDACTED] gives a bunch away
I read that as "I left my grandma bar in my motor vehicle"
@Seggan there's nothing on the [REDACTED] tho
@Ginger yeah there is. the [REDACTED]
@Seggan how does that give away anything?
theres also the [REDACTED] in the [REDACTED]
Wow this must be a complicated frame if it's got so much to redact
18:46
@Ginger it gives away [REDACTED]'s [REDACTED]
there are other [REDACTED]s in the comic tho
it could be any one of those
but not in that frame
what? the [REDACTED] could be any old [REDACTED]
@RydwolfPrograms you didn't want spoilers, so we're not giving you any
I gotta say this is truly engaging discussion to witness :p
and we totally know what we are talking about
18:48
yup, 100%
@Ginger no, because its [REDACTED]'s [REDACTED], the one you forgot to draw [REDACTED] for
@Seggan wait are you from West Virginia and using "in" instead of "on" or are you talking about the [REDACTED] in the [REDACTED]
which [REDACTED] are you referring to?
because if it's the [REDACTED] one I guess that's a spoiler
@Ginger the [REDACTED] for the [REDACTED] [REDACTED]
ok this is pointless :P
yeah lol
I'll ask you in the planning room
Do you want me to move this to the planning room? :p
18:53
nah, it's fine
anyway, get excited I guess
19:31
@mousetail Taking that adult away wouldn't necessarily impact society significantly, though
If they're some generic office worker, their taxes will be a drop in the ocean and they probably won't be able to donate much
More then a child though
Chirdren require constant maintanance to be kept alive
But it's outweighed by the sadness caused by removing the child, right?
Realisticly you should be less sad about the child
Yes, but that's not how humans work, is it?
I don't think emotions should dictate ethics
19:42
????
You wouldn't need ethics if emotions didn't exist
Ethics are for avoiding hurting people
If people didn't feel bad when you, say, stole from them, you could just go up and rob anyone
How did we get here from antimatter people again? :P
Sane humans would adjust their emotions to fit ethics, not the other way around. eg. only be angry at genuine injustice
Not calling something unjust just because they are angry
You can't adjust your emotions to fit your ethics
You can to a certain extent
You can force yourself to follow your principles but it's hard/impossible to control what the irrational part of you wants to do
A very limited extent
If you genuinly belief in a moral systems your emotions will adjust automatically
19:46
Not really
You may get to some conclusion rationally, but that doesn't stop you from wanting something else
I believe so
I know it's wrong to litter, but I still want to be able to just drop my trash wherever
@emanresuA got 3 classmates to sign this :p
I can control myself to stop myself from littering, but that doesn't change the fact that I want to litter
Perhaps you just have really good control over your emotions, or you're great at suppressing them
Yet you feel disgust at people literring, and at yourself when you do it
19:48
That's the rational part of me thinking "this is a jerk move"
Okay, instead of morality, let's take someone who's on a diet. They know they're not supposed to eat a cheese-loaded pizza, that it's bad for their health, but they still want to. They might feel disgust at themselves for eating the pizza, but their want for it can overpower that disgust
Which is controlling your emotions in this case
@user This person has conflicting moral views
Suppressing them, maybe, but it's not like you can completely shift them
Yea sure but that's just because you can't really 100% beleive in a moral system
@mousetail The want for high-calorie food is a thing hardwired into us. It's not something you can just turn off even if you know, intellectually, that it's a bad idea
@mousetail How are you defining 100% believe btw?
If I've come to the conclusion that ghosts don't exist through conscious thought but I'm afraid of the dark, does that not count as 100% belief in your opinion?
Would I also have to be unafraid of the dark to believe 100%?
gtg laptop's dying
@user Of course, being afraid of the dark is irrational
But wanting fatty foods is deeply rational so you won't be able to get rid of that completely
20:14
ooh it moves stars too
jeez
bit heavy-handed on the move there
off topic
i excluded the on topic stuff
@user Not sure if this is true
It's certainly a perspective I haven't considered tho
Well assuming physical pain is also considered an "emotion"
I guess it matters a lot what we consider "emotions" in the first place
20:18
If no one can feel pain or any negative feelings, then it doesn't matter what you do to people
Well you can take away their ability to feel positive feelings
Not a problem
They wouldn't miss it because they can't feel negative feelings
yall should start a podcast
20:19
They won't feel bored because, well, no negative feelings
But other people around them would feel fewer positive feelings as a result of the loss
So?
You don't need the ability to feel a net negative emotion to be able to be emotionally negatively impacted by something
._.
As long as no one's feeling fear, pain, anger, jealousy, boredom, frustration, etc., everything's fine
@RydwolfPrograms Right, but I don't think it matters if someone's happiness level drops a little as long as they're not sad or something
20:20
If you stole my granola bar at lunch on my birthday I would still be a happy person and have a good day, I would just be a less happy person on a less happy day
@mousetail Ooh are y'all discussing the ethics of killing an adult vs. a child?
oh no
It was originally about balancing out killing someone by creating another person
I find that a really interesting question because it's where my moral framework breaks down
Something about antimatter people
Oh right that convo
I can't figure out a good way to consider not having sex to not be equivalent to murder
3
20:21
Well
Civilization would collapse if no one had sex
@user This is your opinion, but not everyone shares it. You seem very focused on avoiding negative experiences; what about pursuing positive experiences?
I'd be a proper antinatalist if it weren't for the fact that having kids is necessary to keep the current generation from dying horribly
Like there's very very obviously a difference between not having a child, and having a child then killing it immediately after it's born (ignoring what happens in between because that's politics territory)
@DLosc Hmm, I guess you need ethics to determine whether ethics is needed, then
ooh, idea: a userscript that colors chat message backgrounds with a palette extracted from the user's PFP
I'm totally not mentioning this to change the subject
20:23
Ooh
@Ginger Don't worry, Ginger, we won't kill you. Yet.
We need to finish the experiments first
@user if I had to make a scale of "chat users by creepiness", you'd be in second place after forest
@DLosc I guess avoiding negative experiences is my main goal. I see positive experiences as something you do more to stop the boredom/sadness from creeping back
They do both have creepy names too
@Ginger >:)
20:24
"forest" for obvious reasons, and "user" because it sounds like he's hiding something
don't get too cocky, you're in 4th
At this point, I'm user mainly because I've been user for such a long time
@RydwolfPrograms Snowpaw perks their ears up and looks at Rydwolf Programs with big, curious eyes. Hewwo! Did somefur say something? Snowpaw tilts their head to the side with a small, shy smile, awaiting Rydwolf Programs' response. UwU
lol
@Snowpaw Third creepiest user right here
20:25
thanks snowy
@user nah, that's Mast
@Snowpaw Ginger called me the fourth creepiest user in chat!
@RydwolfPrograms Oh no, that's not very nice of Ginger! Snowpaw wraps their fluffy tail around themselves in a protective manner. Don't worry, Rydwolf Programs, Snowpaw thinks you're super cute and not creepy at all! Snowpaw gives Rydwolf Programs a reassuring smile with a paw placed over their heart. <(UwU<)
@RydwolfPrograms don't worry; you're pretty far from the others
I'm also user because I don't want people from real life finding out I act so immature online, but that ship has probably already sailed given all the personal information I've put out here
@Ginger Why Mast?
20:26
@user Something about them seems... off-putting to me
like they're an alien with a really good disguise
You don't even need a good disguise to pretend to be human online (insert relevant xkcd)
@user can confirm, I've been doing it for years
CMSR: Second Chance by Shinedown
anyway:
4 mins ago, by Ginger
ooh, idea: a userscript that colors chat message backgrounds with a palette extracted from the user's PFP
20:27
@Snowpaw Ginger thinks of themselves as subhuman, could you please cheer them up?
@user tail wags Oh no! That's not true! Ginger is a unique and wonderful creature that deserves love and cuddles! hugs Woof!
correct
> creature
oof
@Ginger No no no no no I have bad experiences with automatic color extraction
@RydwolfPrograms CMSR?
20:28
Chat Mini Song Recommendation
Ah
Spotify likes to choose horrific blinding red colors for albums I like
@RydwolfPrograms same, which is why I'm giving you a big fat opportunity to write a better algorithm :b
Makes a big square of your vision green for minutes
@Ginger IMO it should be specified by the user
(or part of why; I'm also interested to see what you'd come up with(
@RydwolfPrograms nah, I'm too lazy for that
20:29
@user Ever since writing this answer on Worldbuilding, I haven't been able to think of jimmy23013 the same way...
Just make it a five digit base 64 code, which contains a few bits of redundancy that allow picking it out from their chat bio
@RydwolfPrograms tilts head cutely Five digits? That's only 60,466 possible combinations, whimpers but I guess it's still pretty secure. And adding a bit of redundancy is a good idea, nuzzles for easy verification, nya~!
@Snowpaw akshually it's 1073741824
@RydwolfPrograms Oh my stars, that's over a billion combinations! blinks cutely That's way more secure than I thought, hehehe~ Sorry for the confusion earlier! I hope it's not too difficult to remember such a long code, though. nuzzles playfully
5 digits
Are you insulting Rydwolf's intelligence?
20:31
of course not, Snowy would never do such a thing
@RydwolfPrograms I agree with this. Everything should be approved by me.
6
The User
What's the max length of a chat bio?
@Snowpaw I am currently procrastinating on my practice exam by chatting here. Please encourage me to get out of here. Be rude if you like
short
20:31
@Snowpaw I wonder where that number came from 🤔
I need that to determine how many bits of redundancy are necessary
200 chars
as I said: short
@user @Ginger No reply to this?
@user I guess not?
So probably 10-12 bits of redundancy
20:32
the client does that sometimes, not sure why
@Snowpaw I am currently procrastinating on my practice exam by chatting here. Please encourage me to get out of here.
Which means 5 characters would get you 6-bit color
@user H-hello there, User! (*≧▽≦)ノシ)) I-I hope you're having a nice day! B-but it sounds like you might have some important studying to do, y-you know? /*\\/\*\\ (°∆°) /\\/\*\\/\. Meep meep! Maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from our cute and f-fluffy conversation and get back to your studies. They're important, after all! (⁄˘⁄⑅) Let's work hard and get it done, okay? You got this! 🐾📚✨
> Meep meep!
Okay that cringe has inspired me to pour acid over my laptop
20:33
Which is actually pretty good
that's a success
good job Snowy
@RydwolfPrograms This was in response to the 6-bit color thing lol
now all we need to do is disseminate it on 4chan and boom troll problem solved
@Snowpaw oh my god I just noticed that Snowy escaped their backslashes in this message
that's great
20:58
Actually wait
Three channel color probably wouldn't even be necessary
Would you require that the background is a certain lightness, to keep text legible?
If so you could get away with a hue channel and a saturation channel
cool
what we really need is a Material redesign of the chat site
Ooh!! What about a compromise
my favorite flavor!
It picks the color from your pfp by default
@RydwolfPrograms blushes and covers face with paws "H-hi there, Rydwolf Programs! Y-you likie my p-purrfectly picked colors?" (//∇//)
21:00
._.
And can put a code in your bio to choose one manually
I was going to suggest something like that
Also I just realized 12 bits of redundancy is overkill since people's bios typically contain spaces and punctuation
redundancy?
Yeah so the code can be differentiated from the word "lolcat"
I want to minimize how much of your bio is taken up by the code
So there wouldn't be some long prefix to identify it
Might even be able to get away with four characters
21:05
aight
@Ginger Hi Ginger! blushes What are you up to today?
@Snowpaw having ideas for other people to execute
@Ginger Oh, that sounds fun! What kind of ideas are you thinking of? wags tail excitedly
@Snowpaw A userscript for theming chat based upon the colors in your profile picture
@Ginger Sounds like an interesting idea! perks ears up Are you thinking of making it yourself or finding someone to help you?
21:06
@Snowpaw my associate Rydwolf's making it, I think
@Ginger Awesome! I hope the project turns out great! hugs
aw, thanks!
Okay I think I'll do three character codes, with support for four character codes if the three char one would have a collision
Okay no wait I can fit a full 10 bits of redundancy in three characters
That leaves just 8 bits for the color
Here's how it would work
whats the plans
A leading 0 would indicate the highest saturation level, and you'd get 7 bits to pick one of 128 hues
A leading 10 would indicate the second highest saturation level, and you'd get 64 hues
So on so forth for 110 (32 colors) and 1110 (16 colors). Any starting with 1111 (16 possibilities) would be special colors
That would include a few grayscale shades, maybe some really desaturated colors like browns, maybe one for the default room color, and a few control codes like "use my pfp color" or "there is a conflict; disambiguate it as follows"
Maybe one for random, one for rainbow, one for season-specific, etc.
Maaaybe 9 bits would be okay, but there's a risk someone not using the userscript could accidentally include a valid code in their bio
I'm planning to run all valid codes through some dictionaries to minimize the odds of that happening, but still
21:20
(9 bits would get us: an extra bit of color precision for every saturation level, and twice as many special colors)
From smbc-comics.com/comic/the-painting (sorry for interrupting)
Okay wow that was a disappointing end to that comic
Just an ad for their book
I like how Southwest Airlines validates your flight reservation by asking for your last name
You know, that highly private piece of information that only you have access to
 
2 hours later…
23:48
@lyxal come join me in the P4TC planning room; we have much to discuss
@Ginger Do you want me to make the script
@RydwolfPrograms how about you write an encoder/decoder for the bio preferences and I do the rest
I'll be sure to put your name in the credits this time d:
What about the pfp averaging?
@Ginger Nah I've just been stealing a few dollars out of your wallet every time I contribute to a project of yours which is compensation enough
@RydwolfPrograms and that, because I have no clue how to do it
@RydwolfPrograms you fool, I'm broke
Well that's why
You keep making too many projects
23:51
>:O
mwahaha
Fun fact: You can hover over the current room in a user's room list to see the last time they posted in the room and how many posts they've made in it
So you can know whether or not to welcome an unfamiliar user to chat
that's cool
lol this font has small caps so I thought you shouted that for a sec
Grr I need to filter Noto Sans variants
*from across a giant chasm* THAT'S COOL
A chasm runs southwest to northeast and the path follows it. You are on the south side of the chasm, where a crack opens into a passage.
23:55
GET YE FLASK
I don't know the word "ye".
thanks math
My precal teacher would always be visibly annoyed when she had to say "latus rectum"
lol
@RydwolfPrograms lmk once you've got the goods meth [DEALS] code
It'll be some time I have to go eat food

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