The Sand Trap

Seggan

19:07

@Ginger functions are really variables of a function type

mathcat

frick

I just realised; If I had qualified for the next round, I would have had a chance to participate in the International Mathematical Olympiad.

I hate myself, my life and my nuclear bunker which feels like it's going to explode at any minute now

Ginger

I feel a bit overwhelmed by the size of the task I've set myself here

like, I'm making an entire programming language by myself

Seggan

@Ginger yeah i feel that way too

esp since static typing and all

Ginger

halp

Seggan

a dynamic lang would be much easier

Ginger

19:17

@Seggan what is a shadow jar again?

Seggan

a jar with all dependencies included

Ginger

that's a stupid name, but ok :b

Seggan

smth like an exe with all deps statically linked

Ginger

I'd call it a "universal jar"

or a "complete jar"

Seggan

@Ginger it comes from maven "shade", which refers to mavens shade plugin being able to rename deps and "shade" them

@Ginger theres also the term "fat jar" or "assembly"

mathcat

19:19

@Ginger Why not a cookie jar? :p

Ginger

19:37

@RydwolfPrograms remind me how generics work in Rust? I'm trying to figure out if all I need for a generic definition is a name and an optional series of trait bounds

Seggan

229762 Gǃkúnǁʼhòmdímà

229762 Gǃkúnǁʼhòmdímà (provisional designation 2007 UK126) is a trans-Neptunian object and binary system from the extended scattered disc, located in the outermost region of the Solar System. It was discovered on 19 October 2007 by American astronomers Megan Schwamb, Michael Brown, and David Rabinowitz at the Palomar Observatory in California and measures approximately 600 kilometers (400 miles) in diameter. This medium-sized TNO appears to be representative of a class of mid-sized objects under approximately 1000 km that have not collapsed into fully solid bodies. Its 100-kilometer moon wa...

who, just who would name an object with such an unpronounceable name

pronounciation

it sounds like a beatboxer

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Not sure what you mean

Ginger

nvm, I figured it out

@Seggan how does github.com/Seggan/Rol/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/io/github/… work? Rabbit's type system is very different (for example, no nullable types) but I'd like to at least have a base to work from

Seggan

this is more up to date btw

actually wait no

my local version is significantly different (at least in the parsing of types)

so anyway, all types have the common superclass Type with a name

Ginger

ok

Seggan

19:52

objects-objects are ConcreteType, with superclass params and all

then you have InterfaceType

both are subclasses of ResolvedType

Ginger

hmm, not sure how that'd work in Rabbit seeing as it doesn't have classes and interfaces and such

Seggan

UnresolvedType is a type which you dont know whether its a class or an interface

@Ginger yeah was thinking that

Ginger

I should probably ask @RydwolfPrograms

Rydwolf Programs

sup

Ginger

how should I implement types? I know that's a big question, so more specifically how should I represent types in parsing?

actually, wait

Rydwolf Programs

19:54

In parsing?

Seggan

not parsing, inside the ast

Ginger

^ yeah that

I wasn't sure what words to use q:

Rydwolf Programs

I'd just have a field in your struct or var_declaration or whatever nodes that lists the types. Then for types just have an enum/sum type/whatever Kotlin uses that's either a regular type or a struct/alias name or a generic or a ...

Ginger

hm, ok

Ginger

20:13

question: in function<T> foo(T bar), what would you call <T>?

I'm not sure what to call it in the grammar

Seggan

a generic type parameter

type_param

Ginger

ok cool

Ginger

20:56

@Seggan remind me what the difference between a class and a data class is?

Seggan

data classes have some sugar, such as destructuring support, autogenerated copy methods, and automatic hashCode, equals, and toString generation

kotlinlang.org/docs/data-classes.html

Ginger

neat

Ginger

22:02

@Seggan exciting new problem: I have an identifier_chain rule in my parser (a list of IDENTIFIERs separated by dots, like a.b.c) and I'm not sure if I actually need it

Rol doesn't seem to have anything like it

Seggan

github.com/Seggan/Rol/blob/…

Ginger

yeah, but it makes no sense to use an expression as the left-hand side of an assignment

(for things like foo.bar = 1)

or for trait names, or stuff like that

Seggan

github.com/Seggan/Rol/blob/…

Ginger

that's identical to my identifier_chain

so I guess the answer is yes

crazy how much you can say with two GitHub links d:

Seggan

ikr

DLosc

22:18

@Seggan That's really cool actually. I love click consonants (though I'm sure I can't pronounce most of them correctly).

Seggan

yeah im intrigued by them too

i can imagine the astronomers at the observatory walking around practicing the pronunciation for the press conference :P

Ginger

> error(69): RabbitParser.g4:134:44: label identifier conflicts with rule with same name

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

@Seggan what's your plan for doing "multi-assignment"? (assuming I'm interpreting the Rol source correctly)

Seggan

22:38

multi assignment?

Ginger

@Seggan github.com/Seggan/Rol/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/io/github/…

Seggan

ah multi assignment as in a.b.c = whatever

Ginger

yes

Seggan

wdym my plan

im still implementing classes, havent gotten to that

Ginger

ok

Seggan

22:44

(side note: i really love kotlin's TODO function)

Ginger

@user link or it didn't happen

Seggan

@Ginger are you just systematically going through my code and copying it

Ginger

~~yes~~

dw you will be given full credit

also I'm mostly just copying the AST code

Unrelated String

@Seggan probably someone speaking a tonal click language from africa :P

wait it's fucking ju|'hoan?

why is it ju|'hoan??????

Seggan

whats the deal

user

23:29

@Ginger This isn't where I read it originally but it seems to be the same thing? typoes.github.io/harry-potter-gen-z

Ginger

> The Glass That Yeeted Itself

I'm reading this tomorrow

user

> “Girl, names are a thing. That trash is called Voldemort.” Prof McG flinched but homeboi was unsticking lemon drops and gave no fucks. “Chillax, it’s just a name.”

> “Bet,” Prof McG was exasperated but eyeing Dumbldore like a snacc. “But you’re the only one who could make Voldemort salty.”

Ginger

I hate that it's still legible and understandable

user

Yeah they didn't make it gen Z enough

Unrelated String

fr fr

Ginger

23:32

> the chonklord that is Mr. Dursley

can't improve upon that

user

There's a lot of old-timey stuff in there that they could make more modern (even without resorting to gen Z slang)

Ginger

~~clearly we need to make our own fork of this story~~

user

Dew it :P

lyxal

I leave y'all alone for 5 minutes and this is what I come back to

Seggan

@Ginger its not really legible to me

user

23:39

Really?

I can't understand some parts of it either but most of it's pretty understandable even if you haven't seen those words before

Like "chonklord"

Unrelated String

no fucking idea what unsticking lemon drops is though

user

It might be from the original

Dumbledore's just casually eating his lemon drops after saying a no-no word

Unrelated String

lol

i can't believe they actually didn't replace "enraged" with like
"malding"

this really is half-assed lol

Rydwolf Programs

We need a feminine equivalent of the word "guy"

user

We can just repurpose guy and dude

guys and dudes plural are already gender neutral

Rydwolf Programs

23:45

Like anyone over the age of 12 is too old to be a "boy", but "man" obviously doesn't work for the 12-18 range and "teen boy" is too long, and even for fully grown adults I tend to only use "man" for particularly like...masculine men, because I just default to the semi-gender-neutral "guy" that I'm already familiar with using for my own age range. But for females, there's no in-between

user

People use "girl" but that's a bit weird for adult women

Rydwolf Programs

It's either "girl" or "woman". And I've seen (possibly rightful) pushback against the use of "girl" for people over the age of 18 recently

user

Best to just use "man" or "woman"

I think in a few years, "guy" (singular) might become gender-neutral

Rydwolf Programs

But "man" and "woman" feel to formal, and it's not always possible to tell whether someone's a "teen girl" or "woman" just from a glance

@user Yeah and that's another problem

user

"person" always works

Rydwolf Programs

23:47

Because then I lose the word I use to refer to a specifically male person

user

I usually say "that person over there"

Unrelated String

just make man gender neutral again

Rydwolf Programs

We already have gender neutral figured out

Unrelated String

i want to be a wereman

Rydwolf Programs

It's not-gender-neutral I need

There is no good word to describe someone of my age range who is female, and there's already not an unambiguous one for males

user

23:48

@RydwolfPrograms Doesn't "man" work?

Rydwolf Programs

Not for someone under 18

Calling a 14 year old a "man" would be pretty weird

user

"boy" then

Rydwolf Programs

That's belittling

Especially for the older end of the 12-18 range

If someone called me "boy" I'd be instantly pretty weirded out

user

"Greetings, male human"

Rydwolf Programs

Spanish solves this with niño-chico-hombre

(From what I understand)

We just need a similar three tiered system

user

23:49

How often do you need to say "person in the 12-18 range who is specifically male"? Does "person" not suffice?

Unrelated String

@UnrelatedString actually i forgot it's not compounded but you get the idea

wer-wif-mann

Rydwolf Programs

@user All the time given that I am literally surrounded by 2000 people in the 12-18 range on a daily basis

Unrelated String

fella

Rydwolf Programs

lol

user

Ooh good one

lyxal

23:51

@RydwolfPrograms I've got it: idiot for males, idiotress for females. Simple.

user

How about lad and lass?

@lyxal idiot is gender neutral though

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString Even then I think I associate that with little kids and/or fully grown men, no in between

Unrelated String

lol

user

If someone said "that idiot there" I wouldn't assume that person were male

Rydwolf Programs

@user Not so sure about that :p

user

23:51

?

Rydwolf Programs

@user You're a bit more confident in your gender of people than I am I guess lol

Unrelated String

youth :P

lyxal

@user but if you make it male, and use idiotress for female, it's fine :p

Rydwolf Programs

Any time I see someone doing something stupid it's pretty much always a guy lol

user

I have never seen anyone use "idiotress" in my whole life

Rydwolf Programs

23:52

We need to make it a thing

lyxal

@user I just invented it

user

@RydwolfPrograms True lol

Rydwolf Programs

> Males are four times more likely than females to be struck by lightning.

user

When people insult girls/women, they seem to usually use "bitch", but that's kinda sexist

lyxal

that gets blocked by swear filters anyway

Unrelated String

23:53

~~oh yeah why not just use cunt~~

user

@RydwolfPrograms That's just Chuck Norris's attractiveness and electric personality

2

lyxal

@UnrelatedString because that doesn't work over here :p

user

Do Australians consider it a no-no word?

Rydwolf Programs

I think it's the other way around

lyxal

^

Unrelated String

23:54

^

user

Oh

Right

Rydwolf Programs

Where do you live (besides Australia) where that isn't like, equal to or greater than the strength of "fuck" lol

user

If it's not considered too bad in Australia, then it'd certainly work there

idk I've never heard anyone use it so idk how bad it's considered

Unrelated String

i feel like the australian use pattern has been gradually spreading over the internet

in no small part because it's a pretty rare swear :P

Rydwolf Programs

I think that British OFCOM study about profanity strength put it pretty much right behind racial/homophobic slurs in terms of strength

Unrelated String

23:56

lol

user

oof

Okay, I guess that's out then

Rydwolf Programs

I always love the picture on the front of that study

Angry elementary teacher gets fired for using every swear word

user

@RydwolfPrograms Where was it conducted, though? Maybe it's just British people who consider it that bad

Unrelated String

though speaking of racial slurs i feel like for those who can use it to begin with the soft n-word is actually pretty close to what we're looking for in terms of, like, having a casual term for people that doesn't run into age issues

Rydwolf Programs

I'd assume Britain would consider it less bad because they both are closer culturally to Australia and have less cultural phobia of nudity/sex/body parts

> Cunt: Strongest language, problematic for some even post-watershed. Vulgar, derogatory and shocking for both men and women. Especially distasteful and offensive to women and older participants.

Yeahhh

user

23:58

Ah

I didn't think people would consider it that bad, given that "dick" is pretty commonly used around here

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